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Post by wagsastokie on Dec 16, 2021 18:36:44 GMT
It really isn't though, if this thing took off and really started hospitalising people ( which is what they're apparatntly afraid of) we wouldn't be able to cope at all, not even close. It has to be lived with. If cases had anything to do with likelihood of being hospitalised we're knackered allready, especially if it's apparatntly spreading as fast as they say. So what's the point exactly? So ignore it until hospitalisations sky rocket and then try to act? There’s always the alternative I could have what time I have left being severely curtailed on a whim or a guess from alleged experts
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Post by yyy on Dec 16, 2021 18:37:18 GMT
It really isn't though, if this thing took off and really started hospitalising people ( which is what they're apparatntly afraid of) we wouldn't be able to cope at all, not even close. It has to be lived with. If cases had anything to do with likelihood of being hospitalised we're knackered allready, especially if it's apparatntly spreading as fast as they say. So what's the point exactly? So ignore it until hospitalisations sky rocket and then try to act? What I'm saying is, even if it did sky rocket there is nothing you can do about it anyway, there are not enough beds, it isn't like you can ask the virus for a few weeks ceasefire we'll we tend to the sick because we can't cope. They keep shoving the amount of cases down your throat and saying atm it's mild etc etc, all these cases... if it did turn there is absolutely nothing monitoring cases would achieve.. Let's just say it turned and thousands and thousands of these cases started dropping like flies, what use is monitoring cases, there aren't enough beds
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Post by prestwichpotter on Dec 16, 2021 18:39:19 GMT
Not about proving it but that if everyone is vaccinated transmission will be less and hence there will be less games cancelled. It’s not rocket science and as Klopp says how can you justify putting your colleagues at risk in a team sport? How do you explain Gibraltar where 100% of population have been vaccinated and many more topped up with boosters but their cases skyrocketed? The number of cases at the peak of the spike in November was 87 and the rolling 7 day average at that time was 66. At the time around 40% of the population had received their booster shots. That's now at around 70% and the rolling average is now 28, the numbers are certainly heading in the right direction.......
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Post by a on Dec 16, 2021 18:42:21 GMT
So ignore it until hospitalisations sky rocket and then try to act? There’s always the alternative I could have what time I have left being severely curtailed on a whim or a guess from alleged experts Part of the problem is the me me me culture that exists nowadays, rather than a collective effort to protect everyone. Anyway it’ll continue as long as folk do whatever they want and ignore virologists and scientists because Ken in the boozer thinks it’s all bollocks.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2021 18:48:37 GMT
The NHS is on its arse, even after a budget increase, but not linking cases with hospitalisations is incredibly short sighted It really isn't though, if this thing took off and really started hospitalising people ( which is what they're apparatntly afraid of) we wouldn't be able to cope at all, not even close. It has to be lived with. If cases had anything to do with likelihood of being hospitalised we're knackered allready, especially if it's apparatntly spreading as fast as they say. So what's the point exactly? Are you saying that we should stop testing the public and use hospitalisations as the indicator to determine if we should act to reduce hospitalisations?
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Post by wherty on Dec 16, 2021 18:50:15 GMT
Cases don't matter, hospitalisations matter. If this thing decided to up strength case watching wouldn't make a blind bit of difference to wether we could cope or not, because the NHS is not fit for purpose But the more cases, the more chance of spreading it which means more risk of the vulnerable becoming hospitalised.
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Post by yyy on Dec 16, 2021 18:55:01 GMT
It really isn't though, if this thing took off and really started hospitalising people ( which is what they're apparatntly afraid of) we wouldn't be able to cope at all, not even close. It has to be lived with. If cases had anything to do with likelihood of being hospitalised we're knackered allready, especially if it's apparatntly spreading as fast as they say. So what's the point exactly? Are you saying that we should stop testing the public and use hospitalisations as the indicator to determine if we should act to reduce hospitalisations? Well we're two years in now you tell me, get on with it, what has testing the public achieved so far? Apart from created massive national debt. Let's just say 50% of cases needed to be hospitalised, it's game over allready. If we are going to be ruled by positive cases it will go on forever more, just like the cold and the flu, it isn't going anywhere, get on with it. In the meantime find an effective safe vaccine that can be trusted and actually works, get it licensed and you might see a better uptake
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Dec 16, 2021 18:58:49 GMT
Because there is a lag between people getting infected and a percentage of them becoming seriously ill. I expect by next week it will be much clearer what percentage will require hospitalisation and a week or so after that we should have a good idea how many deaths will result. How long of a lag, it’s been weeks? It was only last week that the first few Omicron cases were confirmed in the UK. With the previous variants death has occurred mostly within 28 days - so a while to wait yet before there will be accurate data.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Dec 16, 2021 18:59:32 GMT
How can you prove it was the unvaccinated player that spread ot though when vaccinated players test positive? You can't, your statement is still wrong. It isn't wrong though is it? Partially wrong but not wholly wrong because your evidence is linked to Delta transmission and not omicron. Omicron is, according to scientists, ripping through society at a rate of knots so the vaccine status isn't preventing transmission and there is no evidence to suggest that our current vaccination even offers the requisite protection, let alone prevents transmission, hence the desperate attempts to convince us all to take the booster.
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Dec 16, 2021 19:01:23 GMT
How do you explain Gibraltar where 100% of population have been vaccinated and many more topped up with boosters but their cases skyrocketed? The number of cases at the peak of the spike in November was 87 and the rolling 7 day average at that time was 66. At the time around 40% of the population had received their booster shots. That's now at around 70% and the rolling average is now 28, the numbers are certainly heading in the right direction....... And that’s great but again, with a fully vaccinated population their cases skyrocketed and that was before Omicron, vaccination prevents serious illness and deaths as per Gibraltar it appears to have little effect on transmission..
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Post by medwaypotter on Dec 16, 2021 19:01:30 GMT
You can't, your statement is still wrong. It isn't wrong though is it? Partially wrong but not wholly wrong because your evidence is linked to Delta transmission and not omicron. Omicron is, according to scientists, ripping through society at a rate of knots so the vaccine status isn't preventing transmission and there is no evidence to suggest that our current vaccination even offers the requisite protection, let alone prevents transmission, hence the desperate attempts to convince us all to take the booster. No one knows, until the data is available, so using available data, you are wrong.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Dec 16, 2021 19:03:33 GMT
It isn't wrong though is it? Partially wrong but not wholly wrong because your evidence is linked to Delta transmission and not omicron. Omicron is, according to scientists, ripping through society at a rate of knots so the vaccine status isn't preventing transmission and there is no evidence to suggest that our current vaccination even offers the requisite protection, let alone prevents transmission, hence the desperate attempts to convince us all to take the booster. No one knows, until the data is available, so using available data, you are wrong. How is it possible to be wrong if no data exists to the contrary?
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Dec 16, 2021 19:03:58 GMT
How long of a lag, it’s been weeks? It was only last week that the first few Omicron cases were confirmed in the UK. With the previous variants death has occurred mostly within 28 days - so a while to wait yet before there will be accurate data. So we should have reliable data from South Africa that we can rely on them? Additionally aren’t they now saying it was almost certainly circulating prior to the “official” date?
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Post by yyy on Dec 16, 2021 19:04:52 GMT
How long of a lag, it’s been weeks? It was only last week that the first few Omicron cases were confirmed in the UK. With the previous variants death has occurred mostly within 28 days - so a while to wait yet before there will be accurate data. Of or with. I could test positive for vitamin c because I like oranges, if I die of something else it doesn't mean vit c played a part, it means I ate an orange
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Dec 16, 2021 19:05:57 GMT
And that is a direct consequence of running down the NHS for the last decade.And of course Brexit.Bursaries used to be given to train as a nurse it was about £100/week.Nowadays it will cost about £30,000 to attain a nursing degree. Who in their right mind would pay £30,000,to work anti social hours,on crap money,at great personal risk.The people running this country really don't care,but what astounds me the most is that many don't see it. Record applications to train by all accounts Oh and don’t forget the thirteen years of nhs and care sector reform under the last labour government Takes years for trainee nurses to become fully operational - and even longer for doctors. Also, the current stress levels in the NHS are causing a lot to leave the profession. I have two friends who are nurses who have both given up the job in the past 12 months. Neither was close to retirement age.
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Post by a on Dec 16, 2021 19:09:31 GMT
You can't, your statement is still wrong. It isn't wrong though is it? Partially wrong but not wholly wrong because your evidence is linked to Delta transmission and not omicron. Omicron is, according to scientists, ripping through society at a rate of knots so the vaccine status isn't preventing transmission and there is no evidence to suggest that our current vaccination even offers the requisite protection, let alone prevents transmission, hence the desperate attempts to convince us all to take the booster. That hasn’t been proven either way yet. I don’t think being responsible and cautious is entirely ridiculous by the govt. we’re all fed up with Covid by the way, but conflating things either for or against without clinical evidence helps No one
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Post by davejohnno1 on Dec 16, 2021 19:15:39 GMT
It isn't wrong though is it? Partially wrong but not wholly wrong because your evidence is linked to Delta transmission and not omicron. Omicron is, according to scientists, ripping through society at a rate of knots so the vaccine status isn't preventing transmission and there is no evidence to suggest that our current vaccination even offers the requisite protection, let alone prevents transmission, hence the desperate attempts to convince us all to take the booster. That hasn’t been proven either way yet. I don’t think being responsible and cautious is entirely ridiculous by the govt. we’re all fed up with Covid by the way, but conflating things either for or against without clinical evidence helps No one That is a completely different tangent. My comments are wholly in relation to the comment about sanctioning non-vaccinated players should they happen to pick up the virus.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2021 19:21:38 GMT
Are you saying that we should stop testing the public and use hospitalisations as the indicator to determine if we should act to reduce hospitalisations? Well we're two years in now you tell me, get on with it, what has testing the public achieved so far? Apart from created massive national debt. Let's just say 50% of cases needed to be hospitalised, it's game over allready. If we are going to be ruled by positive cases it will go on forever more, just like the cold and the flu, it isn't going anywhere, get on with it. In the meantime find an effective safe vaccine that can be trusted and actually works, get it licensed and you might see a better uptake It's been used by countries all around the world to monitor the prevalence of the virus and act accordingly to reduce the impact on hospitals. Waiting for hospitals to fill up before you act is like pulling your trousers up nice and tight to check if your arse needs wiping.
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Post by pottersrule on Dec 16, 2021 19:28:29 GMT
And that is a direct consequence of running down the NHS for the last decade.And of course Brexit.Bursaries used to be given to train as a nurse it was about £100/week.Nowadays it will cost about £30,000 to attain a nursing degree. Who in their right mind would pay £30,000,to work anti social hours,on crap money,at great personal risk.The people running this country really don't care,but what astounds me the most is that many don't see it. Record applications to train by all accounts Oh and don’t forget the thirteen years of nhs and care sector reform under the last labour government There are 39,000 nursing vacancies nationally,and a 90% fall in nurses and midwives from from Europe falling from 9,389 to 810 in the last five years.The Royal Stoke and Stafford county hospital has 401 unfilled nursing posts, causing the trust to cancel all emergency operations last month.They are frantically trying to recruit from lndia and Ghana at present. Don't believe all you read in the Express mate,the NHS has never been in such a dire state as it is at present,and throwing the old chestnut into the argument that it would be worse under labour is no disclaimer for their awful tenure.
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Dec 16, 2021 19:46:50 GMT
It isn't wrong though is it? Partially wrong but not wholly wrong because your evidence is linked to Delta transmission and not omicron. Omicron is, according to scientists, ripping through society at a rate of knots so the vaccine status isn't preventing transmission and there is no evidence to suggest that our current vaccination even offers the requisite protection, let alone prevents transmission, hence the desperate attempts to convince us all to take the booster. No one knows, until the data is available, so using available data, you are wrong. So if no one knows till the data is available how are they able to say a booster protects against Omicron?
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Dec 16, 2021 19:50:09 GMT
Admin, why has this thread been given the anchor treatment?
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Dec 16, 2021 19:53:28 GMT
Admin, why has this thread been given the anchor treatment? Just about to ask the same🤔
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Post by wagsastokie on Dec 16, 2021 19:55:11 GMT
Record applications to train by all accounts Oh and don’t forget the thirteen years of nhs and care sector reform under the last labour government There are 39,000 nursing vacancies nationally,and a 90% fall in nurses and midwives from from Europe falling from 9,389 to 810 in the last five years.The Royal Stoke and Stafford county hospital has 401 unfilled nursing posts, causing the trust to cancel all emergency operations last month.They are frantically trying to recruit from lndia and Ghana at present. Don't believe all you read in the Express mate,the NHS has never been in such a dire state as it is at present,and throwing the old chestnut into the argument that it would be worse under labour is no disclaimer for their awful tenure. One I have never read the bloody express in my life I do listen to my daughter in law who is a state registered nurse And as for the old chestnut of not blaming the previous administration If my local hospital weren’t saddled with a ridiculous pfi contract with a company taking in millions that money that could be spent on clinical need One of the biggest problems in the nhs is bed blocking They can’t get them out so they can’t get them in Labours care reform was the start of this problem
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Post by bayernoatcake on Dec 16, 2021 20:01:15 GMT
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Post by a on Dec 16, 2021 20:09:29 GMT
But there is data isn’t there? To say there is none isn’t true
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