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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 21, 2022 15:42:16 GMT
And could have tried to diversify away like they should have been doing anyway. Instead you have the then PM Truss baning onshore wind and saying daft stuff about solar panels that the right wing idiots latch on to and repeat ad verbatim like it actually means something. Trying the impossible. We are going to have to drastically get use to energy rationing and becoming agrarian. Its not impossible. It's quite easy. Just takes a bit of planning.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2022 15:47:17 GMT
Trying the impossible. We are going to have to drastically get use to energy rationing and becoming agrarian. Its not impossible. It's quite easy. Just takes a bit of planning. Yet again you offer nothing of substance, emotive virtue signalling is your folly. oh foolish man is there nothing you can be made to believe
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Post by prestwichpotter on Nov 21, 2022 15:49:30 GMT
I'm not watching but is Gary Neville in the ITV studio for the Senegal v Netherlands match? If so has unleashed his anger on the Qatari regime yet like he said he was going to use his platform for?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 21, 2022 15:54:51 GMT
Its not impossible. It's quite easy. Just takes a bit of planning. Yet again you offer nothing of substance, emotive virtue signalling is your folly. oh foolish man is there nothing you can be made to believe Your entire schtick is a game of opposites, accuse the other person of doing exactly what you're doing. Nuclear power, more wind and more solar. It should have been happening anyway. It's not virtue signalling, its wanting your own country to be actually be independent for its own needs. You'd think Brexiteers would be all over it.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Nov 21, 2022 16:00:28 GMT
I'm not watching but is Gary Neville in the ITV studio for the Senegal v Netherlands match? If so has unleashed his anger on the Qatari regime yet like he said he was going to use his platform for? He is. I’ve got the volume turned down though so not sure if he’s said anything though. Good to see Nigel De Jong there. What a cracking player he was. On another note isn’t Micah Richards great? Isn’t it nice to have someone who’s part of the analyst team who’s just pleased to be there and loving every minute of it. Refreshing to watch. Hope there’s more of him brings a bit of warmth away from all the politics and dirge the others come out with.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2022 16:03:46 GMT
We have jumped in bed with the the Chinese with respect to nuclear, I am aghast at that.
As for wind and solar................? we have to mine the metal and lime for concrete and it becomes self defeating, as for solar the silver supply dictates that one.
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Post by dirtclod on Nov 21, 2022 16:09:18 GMT
No it's not, it's what they should have been thinking about for year. To rely on an enemy for energy like they do is madness. The EU have increased their gas supplies from Azerbaijan this winter who have increased their gas supply from Russia. They may as well just keep writing Putin a cheque and cut out the middle man......... It's our damned fault in the US for this. We have enough oil that we could produce plenty independently for us and all of our allies. One of my past jobs was tracking the levels of available oil both in basins and what was stored in the Strategic Reserve. The military would call us when it was time to put our noses in some foreign conflict to confirm we had enough. It's a ridiculous amount and we're not running out in our lifetimes for certain. Cue the green lobby who started screaming and whenging on. I live in an oil-producing state and there is little environmental effect outside of fracking, which needs stopped. But we have plenty of reservoirs that don't require fracking, even in the state I live in. So we cut back on production to appease all of this, forcing Europe to turn to the Russian devil. It's not like Europeans have the option of not heating their homes. And Russian production is some of the worst environmentally-impacting operations on the planet. [shocker] Don't get me wrong, the energy industry much to answer for. And their business practices as viewed from my time inside the industry,? Top-heavy management structures that have to be seen to be believed. They'll post record-profits, then 6 months later lay a bunch of people off. That's going on in my home town right now. They're supporting bloated executive-management salaries and destroying loyal employees' lives to appease shareholders spoiled by increased profits. We DO need to pursue all the alternative-energy routes, but we also need to stop cutting off our own noses by attempting to throw away the energy we have sitting in the ground right now. Due to red tape introduced by the greenies, you cannot legally construct a new refinery here now. And there are new generation set ups that would be much much cleaner, more efficient, less greenhouse gases etc. but they cannot get the approval to build them due to conflicting red-tape laws. Also, the facts need looked at regarding some of these alternatives like lithium-ion battery production, which is just as involved and harmful to the environment. All those cars sitting abandoned in fields for lack of batteries is a real home run for the environment. I'm just sick of the hypocrisy and lies on both sides of the issue. Sorry for the hijack.
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 21, 2022 16:45:41 GMT
The England team can only do so much. Highlighting some forms of prejudice is better than none at all. The players should not have been put in this position. Its ridiculous and the FA is completely to blame here.Terrible incompetence and complicity. Fifa are to blame
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 21, 2022 16:47:50 GMT
I see your point. Are you suggesting that it is better not to stand up against anything in case you miss out on something else that is unfair and you should be standing up against? The treatment of women in Iran was brilliant supported by the Iranian team as they did not sing the anthem. Should they not have done this because they also didn’t take the knee and they did not wear a rainbow armband!?
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Post by cobhamstokey on Nov 21, 2022 16:59:16 GMT
I see your point. Are you suggesting that it is better not to stand up against anything in case you miss out on something else that is unfair and you should be standing up against? The treatment of women in Iran was brilliant supported by the Iranian team as they did not sing the anthem. Should they not have done this because they also didn’t take the knee and they did not wear a rainbow armband!? Spot on re Iran. Far more impactive than wearing a badge.
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Post by cvillestokie on Nov 21, 2022 17:28:40 GMT
I see your point. Are you suggesting that it is better not to stand up against anything in case you miss out on something else that is unfair and you should be standing up against? The treatment of women in Iran was brilliant supported by the Iranian team as they did not sing the anthem. Should they not have done this because they also didn’t take the knee and they did not wear a rainbow armband!? Spot on re Iran. Far more impactive than wearing a badge. Exactly. If they wanted to do something, it should have been spontaneous. If the player wanted to go and wear a shirt saying women’s rights on one side and gay rights on another, then show it when they score a goal and the tv is all over them, that would be interesting. In the end, broadcasting you are going to be wearing a piece of fabric means little to the people of Qatar, where the commentators could just choose to ignore it. As I said, footballers aren’t activists. It’s not their duty to do these things. I support those that do try, even in ways that I think are ineffective, but wearing an armband or not isn’t going to change anything. If Kane really cared, he’d give up his summer holiday in Miami and organize protests on the streets of Qatar. As he doesn’t, he’ll be on holiday and the whole issue will be forgotten after Christmas.
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Post by wannabee on Nov 21, 2022 17:28:54 GMT
Much as i dislike the Qatari Regime I don't agree with any form of symbolism at Football This is a problem entirely created by FIFA and we all know the reasons why 💵
I include LGBTQ+ , BLM and Poppys not because I don't agree with their causes but who decides what symbols are OK and which are not. What would be the reaction if the Qatari Football Team came out with Shirts advertising Conversion Therapy
If someone goes to a game at the Brit they are well aware of the Laws of the Land and if they break them they should be arrested. There shouldn't be a hierarchy of causes all forms of Discrimination or denial of Human Rights are equality abhorrent
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Post by cobhamstokey on Nov 21, 2022 18:08:04 GMT
Much as i dislike the Qatari Regime I don't agree with any form of symbolism at Football This is a problem entirely created by FIFA and we all know the reasons why 💵 I include LGBTQ+ , BLM and Poppys not because I don't agree with their causes but who decides what symbols are OK and which are not. What would be the reaction if the Qatari Football Team came out with Shirts advertising Conversion Therapy If someone goes to a game at the Brit they are well aware of the Laws of the Land and if they break them they should be arrested. There shouldn't be a hierarchy of causes all forms of Discrimination or denial of Human Rights are equality abhorrent Well said.
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Post by franklin on Nov 21, 2022 18:15:29 GMT
So I've just got in and I'm catching up on the game and is it correct Kane did NOT wear the "one love" armband and Wales aren't either so much for conviction shithouses.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Nov 21, 2022 18:18:46 GMT
Much as i dislike the Qatari Regime I don't agree with any form of symbolism at Football This is a problem entirely created by FIFA and we all know the reasons why 💵 I include LGBTQ+ , BLM and Poppys not because I don't agree with their causes but who decides what symbols are OK and which are not. What would be the reaction if the Qatari Football Team came out with Shirts advertising Conversion Therapy If someone goes to a game at the Brit they are well aware of the Laws of the Land and if they break them they should be arrested. There shouldn't be a hierarchy of causes all forms of Discrimination or denial of Human Rights are equality abhorrent As you know I don’t agree with a lot of what you say but you’re absolutely spot on here. In my opinion of course👍🏻
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Nov 21, 2022 18:22:40 GMT
All started imho with poppies on shirts - which many will consider a worthy cause but nevertheless it's not a football issue and there's plenty of opportunity for anyone to mark Remembrance away from football.
But with that the genie is out of the bottle and who's to say the next 'cause' is any more or less worthy than the last or should or shouldn't be represented.
Who's the arbiter?
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Post by wannabee on Nov 21, 2022 19:07:13 GMT
Much as i dislike the Qatari Regime I don't agree with any form of symbolism at Football This is a problem entirely created by FIFA and we all know the reasons why 💵 I include LGBTQ+ , BLM and Poppys not because I don't agree with their causes but who decides what symbols are OK and which are not. What would be the reaction if the Qatari Football Team came out with Shirts advertising Conversion Therapy If someone goes to a game at the Brit they are well aware of the Laws of the Land and if they break them they should be arrested. There shouldn't be a hierarchy of causes all forms of Discrimination or denial of Human Rights are equality abhorrent As you know I don’t agree with a lot of what you say but you’re absolutely spot on here. In my opinion of course👍🏻 You haven't like a post of mine since I called FYD an Inane Throbber 🤣
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Nov 21, 2022 19:31:57 GMT
As you know I don’t agree with a lot of what you say but you’re absolutely spot on here. In my opinion of course👍🏻 You haven't like a post of mine since I called FYD an Inane Throbber 🤣 With good reason I’d imagine🤣 I’m pretty sure I have though
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 22, 2022 2:51:58 GMT
All started imho with poppies on shirts - which many will consider a worthy cause but nevertheless it's not a football issue and there's plenty of opportunity for anyone to mark Remembrance away from football. But with that the genie is out of the bottle and who's to say the next 'cause' is any more or less worthy than the last or should or shouldn't be represented. Who's the arbiter? And ... taking the knee
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Post by cobhamstokey on Nov 22, 2022 7:31:39 GMT
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Post by knype on Nov 22, 2022 7:45:00 GMT
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Post by metalhead on Nov 22, 2022 8:10:10 GMT
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 22, 2022 8:16:52 GMT
All started imho with poppies on shirts - which many will consider a worthy cause but nevertheless it's not a football issue and there's plenty of opportunity for anyone to mark Remembrance away from football. But with that the genie is out of the bottle and who's to say the next 'cause' is any more or less worthy than the last or should or shouldn't be represented. Who's the arbiter? And ... taking the knee Poppies was way before that wasn’t it?
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 22, 2022 8:45:27 GMT
All started imho with poppies on shirts - which many will consider a worthy cause but nevertheless it's not a football issue and there's plenty of opportunity for anyone to mark Remembrance away from football. But with that the genie is out of the bottle and who's to say the next 'cause' is any more or less worthy than the last or should or shouldn't be represented. Who's the arbiter? I think Kick It Out predates poppies by some distance. But is anybody seriously suggesting that football clubs actively trying to rid the game of racism was something that shouldn’t have been done, particularly when kick it out started in 1993. Fifa should have set clear rules years ago on this. You can either make symbolic gestures as you wish (my preference) or you can ban them as part of the cancel culture those who oppose taking the knee etc generally also oppose.
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Post by Northy on Nov 22, 2022 9:09:07 GMT
I remember going here in about 1985, could only afford or get a cup of tea though, it cost £100m to build in 1979, wasn't the most exciting place in the world, had better times in Bahrain and Muscat. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheraton_Grand_Doha_Resort_%26_Convention_HotelThat worked out well ! - The hotel has 371 rooms, 9 restaurants, and 26 conference rooms. In 2020, it was host to the Doha peace conference that negotiated the withdrawal of U.S. troops from Afghanistan.
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Post by yeokel on Nov 22, 2022 9:31:08 GMT
All started imho with poppies on shirts - which many will consider a worthy cause but nevertheless it's not a football issue and there's plenty of opportunity for anyone to mark Remembrance away from football. But with that the genie is out of the bottle and who's to say the next 'cause' is any more or less worthy than the last or should or shouldn't be represented. Who's the arbiter? I think Kick It Out predates poppies by some distance. But is anybody seriously suggesting that football clubs actively trying to rid the game of racism was something that shouldn’t have been done, particularly when kick it out started in 1993. Fifa should have set clear rules years ago on this. You can either make symbolic gestures as you wish (my preference) or you can ban them as part of the cancel culture those who oppose taking the knee etc generally also oppose. “But is anybody seriously suggesting that football clubs actively trying to rid the game of racism was something that shouldn’t have been done” I don’t think anyone has been suggesting that, seriously or not. That seems to be an idea all of your own. “Fifa should have set clear rules years ago on this.” Arguably, they already have. Their rule seems to be that if you come up with sufficient dirty Dollars, you can do anything you want. “You can either make symbolic gestures as you wish (my preference)….” So, you’d have been happy for the Iranian team to wear something promoting the rape and murder of women then? Or perhaps, even the Welsh wearing a little fire symbol in support of those setting holiday homes alight? I’ll answer for you - No, of course you wouldn’t! You’d only support gestures with which you agree. And talking of gestures, I would echo others in applauding the stance taken by the Iran team yesterday. That took balls. I just hope they and their families are all ok when they go back to Iran.
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 22, 2022 9:40:26 GMT
I think Kick It Out predates poppies by some distance. But is anybody seriously suggesting that football clubs actively trying to rid the game of racism was something that shouldn’t have been done, particularly when kick it out started in 1993. Fifa should have set clear rules years ago on this. You can either make symbolic gestures as you wish (my preference) or you can ban them as part of the cancel culture those who oppose taking the knee etc generally also oppose. “But is anybody seriously suggesting that football clubs actively trying to rid the game of racism was something that shouldn’t have been done” I don’t think anyone has been suggesting that, seriously or not. That seems to be an idea all of your own. “Fifa should have set clear rules years ago on this.” Arguably, they already have. Their rule seems to be that if you come up with sufficient dirty Dollars, you can do anything you want. “You can either make symbolic gestures as you wish (my preference)….” So, you’d have been happy for the Iranian team to wear something promoting the rape and murder of women then? Or perhaps, even the Welsh wearing a little fire symbol in support of those setting holiday homes alight? I’ll answer for you - No, of course you wouldn’t! You’d only support gestures with which you agree. And talking of gestures, I would echo others in applauding the stance taken by the Iran team yesterday. That took balls. I just hope they and their families are all ok when they go back to Iran. You are completely contradicting yourself. Either you allow gestures (nothing printed on kits) or you don’t. You cannot allow some but not all for the reasons you pointed out. I don’t think any team would do a gesture promoting rape and murder, or arson. So I am comfortable allowing symbolic gestures, like Iran and England did before the match. If a team did promote rape, murder or arson then I think they would lose all respect and support and the players would ruin their careers instantly.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Nov 22, 2022 10:03:34 GMT
All started imho with poppies on shirts - which many will consider a worthy cause but nevertheless it's not a football issue and there's plenty of opportunity for anyone to mark Remembrance away from football. But with that the genie is out of the bottle and who's to say the next 'cause' is any more or less worthy than the last or should or shouldn't be represented. Who's the arbiter? And ... taking the knee 2012 was the first year all 20 Premier League clubs had poppies sewn into their shirts. Kaepernick first 'took the knee' in the US in 2016 and it was 2020 before it made it's way into British Football.
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Post by yeokel on Nov 22, 2022 10:07:56 GMT
“But is anybody seriously suggesting that football clubs actively trying to rid the game of racism was something that shouldn’t have been done” I don’t think anyone has been suggesting that, seriously or not. That seems to be an idea all of your own. “Fifa should have set clear rules years ago on this.” Arguably, they already have. Their rule seems to be that if you come up with sufficient dirty Dollars, you can do anything you want. “You can either make symbolic gestures as you wish (my preference)….” So, you’d have been happy for the Iranian team to wear something promoting the rape and murder of women then? Or perhaps, even the Welsh wearing a little fire symbol in support of those setting holiday homes alight? I’ll answer for you - No, of course you wouldn’t! You’d only support gestures with which you agree. And talking of gestures, I would echo others in applauding the stance taken by the Iran team yesterday. That took balls. I just hope they and their families are all ok when they go back to Iran. You are completely contradicting yourself. Either you allow gestures (nothing printed on kits) or you don’t. You cannot allow some but not all for the reasons you pointed out. I don’t think any team would do a gesture promoting rape and murder, or arson. So I am comfortable allowing symbolic gestures, like Iran and England did before the match. If a team did promote rape, murder or arson then I think they would lose all respect and support and the players would ruin their careers instantly. I’m contradicting myself? I don’t know how you’ve come up with that idea. There’s nothing I’ve written which could suggest that I’m ‘anti-gesture’ or ‘anti-protest’. Nice attempt at deflection though. And, I would agree, any team or player promoting rape, murder, etc would lose all respect and support from any right thinking person. I was merely pointing out to you that your professed support for the right of players or teams to wear any symbol in support of any cause whatsoever might not always result in outcomes that you would support or sympathise with. Sometimes, a line must be drawn, surely?
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Post by noustie on Nov 22, 2022 10:58:41 GMT
I see your point. Are you suggesting that it is better not to stand up against anything in case you miss out on something else that is unfair and you should be standing up against? The treatment of women in Iran was brilliant supported by the Iranian team as they did not sing the anthem. Should they not have done this because they also didn’t take the knee and they did not wear a rainbow armband!? To be brutally honest England players were put in an invidious position not of their making and in trying to appease various stakeholders and interest groups risk actually making it worse. For me, sport is a powerful weapon and platform for protest but needs to be utilised wisely, succinctly, concisely and sparingly in order for it to maintain its impact. Iran is a perfect example in that they’ve stood up at great risk to themselves and their families to highlight the current demonstrations and subsequent abhorrent treatment of women within their country. That doesn’t likely stop Iran being backward when it comes to homosexuality or racism, although that’s an assumption on my part, but nobody in their right mind would question the precedence of their actions in protest given their current environment over, for example, not wearing a ‘one love’ arm band whilst they did it. The issue for England, and other western countries by extension, is they don’t really have a great deal of clarity on what they’re protesting nor what they’re looking to achieve nor how it isn’t farcically hypocritical on the stage they're using. At the outset the ‘one love’ arm band was a wooly, ill-defined, purposefully obtuse gesture designed to not offend the host and FIFA whilst simultaneously bringing attention to human rights globally with the premise particular concerned around the treatment of migrant labour in the host nation without shouting it too loudly. Somehow though that side of it seemed to disappear down the back of the sofa and it became a vehicle where LBGT+ rights appeared to suddenly take precedent. There could easily be a discussion around how and why the rights of LBGT+ community took the focus from the racial implications of the expendable, essentially slave, labour propping up the Qatar economy who were looking for recompense given their losses but it’s pointless because neither group warranted getting a booking for anyway. Essentially that means that progressing in this murky tournament mired up to its eyes in sleaze and politics is more important than standing up to discrimination because regardless of words that’s what the actions state. What would deliver a message is if a player went ‘fuck it’, wore one anyway and took the booking but by not doing that, fairly or unfairly, open themselves up to criticism. Move on to taking the knee and are the migrant workers covered under this or is this purely black and white rather than brown on brown? It’s a gesture that black players themselves have flagged up as losing impetus and it seems unclear what it is now looking to achieve here. Is it racism within the US where this originates, (who I don’t think took the knee last night); racism in the UK and/or; racism in Qatar? It’s rather moot anyway because what you ended up with was 11 players looking varyingly unconvincing doing it for a matter of seconds spending less time on their knee than it takes me to pick up a stray quid. Essentially hypocrisy became a spectator sport because there was a protest for the blink of an eye within the confines of a stadium and tournament whose very foundations are built on racial exploitation. If they’d stayed down whilst Iran kicked off even for a couple of seconds it would have had a bit more resonance but it just looked token yesterday given the prevailing circumstances. Then to cap it all suggesting not understanding the plight in Iran as a reason for not dipping a toe in there in comparison to the above is a terrible answer - there was sufficient understanding of the LBGT cause, and the migrant worker cause, to decide it’s not worth a yellow card whereas the plight of Iranian women in particular wasn’t worthy of understanding at all. For me the answer is fairly straightforward – the methodology of highlighting the world cup was taking place in a gilded caged shit hole would simply have been not to go because attendance validates it. The other option was to go, delegate questions to the FA and accept your own complicity in that the sport takes precedent because end of the day they’re footballers at a footballing tournament. Anything in-between is just a fudge for me trying to rationalise something that isn’t really defendable and hasn’t been for twelve years.
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