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Post by professorplump on Sept 20, 2022 22:13:10 GMT
There is a big difference Between a keeper who bats a bit And a batsman who keeps a bit To me their primary job is to keep wicket which in its own right can decide tight games It seems to me your dislike for foakes is he’s got a pile of wank higher up the order than him Hardly rational or fair That just seems like an old fashioned view to me though? I don’t dislike Foakes. He’s ok but with how poor the openers are. And how unreliable the number 3 and Stokes are too you need a bit more there than a nice 20 or 30 every other game? I wouldn’t want anyone in the top 7 averaging below 35. I think your logic is wrong. If the top 6 are under performing, then that is where any changes should be made. Replacing Foakes is counter productive because whoever bats at 7 will still be stranded with a weak tail. Playing an inferior wicket keeper who is likely to cost as many runs as they make will just add to the pressure that the batsmen are under.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 20, 2022 22:23:51 GMT
That just seems like an old fashioned view to me though? I don’t dislike Foakes. He’s ok but with how poor the openers are. And how unreliable the number 3 and Stokes are too you need a bit more there than a nice 20 or 30 every other game? I wouldn’t want anyone in the top 7 averaging below 35. I think your logic is wrong. If the top 6 are under performing, then that is where any changes should be made. Replacing Foakes is counter productive because whoever bats at 7 will still be stranded with a weak tail. Playing an inferior wicket keeper who is likely to cost as many runs as they make will just add to the pressure that the batsmen are under. My logic is I would want everyone in the top 7 to average over 35. Lees averages 23.5 Crawley - 27.26 Pope - 30 Root - 50.7 Stokes - 36.1 Bairstow - 37.3 Foakes - 30.5 Even the talk of a top 6 seems old fashioned to me and how I’ve watched cricket. It’s alwaya been 7 batters and you should be ideally averaging as close to 40 as possible.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Sept 20, 2022 22:41:01 GMT
I think your logic is wrong. If the top 6 are under performing, then that is where any changes should be made. Replacing Foakes is counter productive because whoever bats at 7 will still be stranded with a weak tail. Playing an inferior wicket keeper who is likely to cost as many runs as they make will just add to the pressure that the batsmen are under. My logic is I would want everyone in the top 7 to average over 35. Lees averages 23.5 Crawley - 27.26 Pope - 30 Root - 50.7 Stokes - 36.1 Bairstow - 37.3 Foakes - 30.5 Even the talk of a top 6 seems old fashioned to me and how I’ve watched cricket. It’s alwaya been 7 batters and you should be ideally averaging as close to 40 as possible. So bring in a batsmen who averages 5 more than Foakes, and lose many more runs in terms of byes conceded, potential catches/stumpings missed especially in tough sub-continental conditions? Makes zero sense, this is a bloke who scored a match winning century literally 2 tests ago by the way........
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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 21, 2022 6:04:06 GMT
My logic is I would want everyone in the top 7 to average over 35. Lees averages 23.5 Crawley - 27.26 Pope - 30 Root - 50.7 Stokes - 36.1 Bairstow - 37.3 Foakes - 30.5 Even the talk of a top 6 seems old fashioned to me and how I’ve watched cricket. It’s alwaya been 7 batters and you should be ideally averaging as close to 40 as possible. So bring in a batsmen who averages 5 more than Foakes, and lose many more runs in terms of byes conceded, potential catches/stumpings missed especially in tough sub-continental conditions? Makes zero sense, this is a bloke who scored a match winning century literally 2 tests ago by the way........ I don’t think we would. And so? If Crawley had scored one 2 ago he still should be nowhere near this side.
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Post by partickpotter on Sept 21, 2022 6:27:23 GMT
I think your logic is wrong. If the top 6 are under performing, then that is where any changes should be made. Replacing Foakes is counter productive because whoever bats at 7 will still be stranded with a weak tail. Playing an inferior wicket keeper who is likely to cost as many runs as they make will just add to the pressure that the batsmen are under. My logic is I would want everyone in the top 7 to average over 35. Lees averages 23.5 Crawley - 27.26 Pope - 30 Root - 50.7 Stokes - 36.1 Bairstow - 37.3 Foakes - 30.5 Even the talk of a top 6 seems old fashioned to me and how I’ve watched cricket. It’s alwaya been 7 batters and you should be ideally averaging as close to 40 as possible. Nope. It’s “always” been about balance. Which I appreciate is a concept you might struggle with. The ideal balance in a cricket team is 5 high quality batsmen, averaging over 40, one all rounder whose batting average is (preferably significantly) higher than his bowling average, a high calibre keeper who can hold a bat meaning an average of 30 give or take and 4 good bowlers one of whom is reasonably competent with the bat.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 21, 2022 6:35:20 GMT
My logic is I would want everyone in the top 7 to average over 35. Lees averages 23.5 Crawley - 27.26 Pope - 30 Root - 50.7 Stokes - 36.1 Bairstow - 37.3 Foakes - 30.5 Even the talk of a top 6 seems old fashioned to me and how I’ve watched cricket. It’s alwaya been 7 batters and you should be ideally averaging as close to 40 as possible. Nope. It’s “always” been about balance. Which I appreciate is a concept you might struggle with. The ideal balance in a cricket team is 5 high quality batsmen, averaging over 40, one all rounder whose batting average is (preferably significantly) higher than his bowling average, a high calibre keeper who can hold a bat meaning an average of 30 give or take and 4 good bowlers one of whom is reasonably competent with the bat. From when I’ve been watching that has never been true of a keeper. It’s been about having keeper-batsman. The all rounder definitely I agree but I’d argue England has two and one averages 50 with the bat.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Sept 21, 2022 7:00:36 GMT
My logic is I would want everyone in the top 7 to average over 35. Lees averages 23.5 Crawley - 27.26 Pope - 30 Root - 50.7 Stokes - 36.1 Bairstow - 37.3 Foakes - 30.5 Even the talk of a top 6 seems old fashioned to me and how I’ve watched cricket. It’s alwaya been 7 batters and you should be ideally averaging as close to 40 as possible. Nope. It’s “always” been about balance. Which I appreciate is a concept you might struggle with. The ideal balance in a cricket team is 5 high quality batsmen, averaging over 40, one all rounder whose batting average is (preferably significantly) higher than his bowling average, a high calibre keeper who can hold a bat meaning an average of 30 give or take and 4 good bowlers one of whom is reasonably competent with the bat. For what it’s worth I think Pope will get there the more games he plays and there’s definite signs of improvement. Bairstow and Stokes are a little inconsistent and will need to be more careful at the start of innings re the best attacks. Root is our one genuine world class batsman and Foakes should be our WK long term as he has a great technique and bats like a test batsman and is brilliant behind the stumps. Biggest concern is the openers they just need to do better. The last test was encouraging though. Bowling wise we’re decent I just wish we had a Graham Swann. Leach to me just doesn’t look threatening and his batting makes a long tail longer. Currently to get 50 from our bottom 4 would be an achievement.
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Post by partickpotter on Sept 21, 2022 7:10:07 GMT
Nope. It’s “always” been about balance. Which I appreciate is a concept you might struggle with. The ideal balance in a cricket team is 5 high quality batsmen, averaging over 40, one all rounder whose batting average is (preferably significantly) higher than his bowling average, a high calibre keeper who can hold a bat meaning an average of 30 give or take and 4 good bowlers one of whom is reasonably competent with the bat. From when I’ve been watching that has never been true of a keeper. It’s been about having keeper-batsman. The all rounder definitely I agree but I’d argue England has two and one averages 50 with the bat. Joe Root is a handy occasional bowler. He ain’t an all rounder - on the classic definition of an all rounder that he could be chosen either as a batsmen or as a bowler in their own rights. The preference for a good keeper that can hold a bat over a better one who can’t is nothing new. It’s why Knott was preferred to Taylor back in the day and, more recently, why Foster at Essex got so few caps. Adam Gilchrist changed peoples expectations, but he was a freak. We hoped Buttler could mimic him. But he couldn’t. So, in the absence of a freakish genius, normal rules apply. And Foakes is a perfect fit.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 21, 2022 7:14:28 GMT
From when I’ve been watching that has never been true of a keeper. It’s been about having keeper-batsman. The all rounder definitely I agree but I’d argue England has two and one averages 50 with the bat. Joe Root is a handy occasional bowler. He ain’t an all rounder - on the classic definition of an all rounder that he could be chosen either as a batsmen or as a bowler in their own rights. The preference for a good keeper that can hold a bat over a better one who can’t is nothing new. It’s why Knott was preferred to Taylor back in the day and, more recently, why Foster at Essex got so few caps. Adam Gilchrist changed peoples expectations, but he was a freak. We hoped Buttler could mimic him. But he couldn’t. So, in the absence of a freakish genius, normal rules apply. And Foakes is a perfect fit. He’s the best spinner we’ve had since Swann. I’d happily have him as the lone spin option if needed with 4 quicks being picked.
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Post by partickpotter on Sept 21, 2022 7:16:27 GMT
Joe Root is a handy occasional bowler. He ain’t an all rounder - on the classic definition of an all rounder that he could be chosen either as a batsmen or as a bowler in their own rights. The preference for a good keeper that can hold a bat over a better one who can’t is nothing new. It’s why Knott was preferred to Taylor back in the day and, more recently, why Foster at Essex got so few caps. Adam Gilchrist changed peoples expectations, but he was a freak. We hoped Buttler could mimic him. But he couldn’t. So, in the absence of a freakish genius, normal rules apply. And Foakes is a perfect fit. He’s the best spinner we’ve had since Swann. I’d happily have him as the lone spin option if needed with 4 quicks being picked. Thankfully you are not a selector.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 21, 2022 7:19:21 GMT
He’s the best spinner we’ve had since Swann. I’d happily have him as the lone spin option if needed with 4 quicks being picked. Thankfully you are not a selector. Ali was ok but Leach is crap. Root is a better bowler than both.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Sept 21, 2022 7:19:26 GMT
Joe Root is a handy occasional bowler. He ain’t an all rounder - on the classic definition of an all rounder that he could be chosen either as a batsmen or as a bowler in their own rights. The preference for a good keeper that can hold a bat over a better one who can’t is nothing new. It’s why Knott was preferred to Taylor back in the day and, more recently, why Foster at Essex got so few caps. Adam Gilchrist changed peoples expectations, but he was a freak. We hoped Buttler could mimic him. But he couldn’t. So, in the absence of a freakish genius, normal rules apply. And Foakes is a perfect fit. He’s the best spinner we’ve had since Swann. I’d happily have him as the lone spin option if needed with 4 quicks being picked. He’s very inconsistent though and for me not capable of bowling long spells. If he did how would that impact on his batting. It’s a shame Moeen Ali’s retired as he always looked capable of getting a decent score though not consistently.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Sept 21, 2022 7:21:49 GMT
So bring in a batsmen who averages 5 more than Foakes, and lose many more runs in terms of byes conceded, potential catches/stumpings missed especially in tough sub-continental conditions? Makes zero sense, this is a bloke who scored a match winning century literally 2 tests ago by the way........ I don’t think we would. And so? If Crawley had scored one 2 ago he still should be nowhere near this side. So you don’t think Foakes would save more than 5 runs in the field against the part time keeping of Duckett for example? (Bairstow is injured so it’s irrelevant). In tough conditions that may spin massively and when the ball is keeping really low, seriously? We can’t afford to play a Gilchrist type number 7 with what’s currently below him in the order, if you picked Moeen as your front line spinner and put him in at 8 then maybe so but that’s not going to happen….
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Post by partickpotter on Sept 21, 2022 7:32:14 GMT
Thankfully you are not a selector. Ali was ok but Leach is crap. Root is a better bowler than both. Might I suggest you have a look at the test series last summer against New Zealand when we did what you suggested. You can look back at other times we’ve done similar things. Every time it has failed.
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Post by GeneralFaye on Sept 21, 2022 7:34:24 GMT
FFS, this thread was a safe place once upon a time.. goodbye my old friend.
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Post by chuckrocky on Sept 21, 2022 11:33:01 GMT
The 2023 Ashes ticket ballots have opened today. If you’re interested in going I’d get entering as I imagine tickets will be pretty hard to come by next summer.
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Sept 21, 2022 12:18:20 GMT
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Post by prestwichpotter on Sept 21, 2022 12:54:45 GMT
Essex 59 all out chasing 90 odd to win against Lancashire. Crazy crazy game.........
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Post by stokeuk474 on Sept 21, 2022 13:40:41 GMT
Essex 59 all out chasing 90 odd to win against Lancashire. Crazy crazy game......... Just watched the end of it mate. Bonkers game Shame they couldn't force a win against Yorkshire the other week as that would've put them right in the title mix
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Post by prestwichpotter on Sept 21, 2022 13:43:01 GMT
Essex 59 all out chasing 90 odd to win against Lancashire. Crazy crazy game......... Just watched the end of it mate. Bonkers game Shame they couldn't force a win against Yorkshire the other week as that would've put them right in the title mix Yeah I had the last hour on YouTube, there was some pretty average batting against little more than medium pace from what I saw, I didn't see the rest of the game though but was the pitch really that bad?
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Post by partickpotter on Sept 21, 2022 15:01:32 GMT
Just watched the end of it mate. Bonkers game Shame they couldn't force a win against Yorkshire the other week as that would've put them right in the title mix Yeah I had the last hour on YouTube, there was some pretty average batting against little more than medium pace from what I saw, I didn't see the rest of the game though but was the pitch really that bad? I see you are rapidly closing in on my long held lead on the fantasy league. My money is now on you heading the table if not by the end of this penultimate set of matches then by the time the final set concludes next week. I’ve had a complete ‘mare since the restart. I’ve had far too many players who haven’t played. This week is better, but I’m still only playing with 9 men.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Sept 21, 2022 15:12:05 GMT
Yeah I had the last hour on YouTube, there was some pretty average batting against little more than medium pace from what I saw, I didn't see the rest of the game though but was the pitch really that bad? I see you are rapidly closing in on my long held lead on the fantasy league. My money is now on you heading the table if not by the end of this penultimate set of matches then by the time the final set concludes next week. I’ve had a complete ‘mare since the restart. I’ve had far too many players who haven’t played. This week is better, but I’m still only playing with 9 men. Yeah we'll put this season down to teething issues and try and get at least a dozen of us next season, it's definitely a good way of keeping a close eye on the County Championship. Hopefully there will be a T20 World Cup version..........
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Post by partickpotter on Sept 21, 2022 15:18:03 GMT
I see you are rapidly closing in on my long held lead on the fantasy league. My money is now on you heading the table if not by the end of this penultimate set of matches then by the time the final set concludes next week. I’ve had a complete ‘mare since the restart. I’ve had far too many players who haven’t played. This week is better, but I’m still only playing with 9 men. Yeah we'll put this season down to teething issues and try and get at least a dozen of us next season, it's definitely a good way of keeping a close eye on the County Championship. Hopefully there will be a T20 World Cup version.......... I’ve really enjoyed the IPL and County Championship tournaments. They’ve added to my enjoyment and engagement in the both tournaments. So, big thanks to you for organising. Looking forward to some more. Maybe Bayern can join the fun and we can see how his selection philosophy works out.
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Post by stokeuk474 on Sept 21, 2022 15:43:50 GMT
Just watched the end of it mate. Bonkers game Shame they couldn't force a win against Yorkshire the other week as that would've put them right in the title mix Yeah I had the last hour on YouTube, there was some pretty average batting against little more than medium pace from what I saw, I didn't see the rest of the game though but was the pitch really that bad? There were a few questionable shots from both sides, and I think maybe 150 was a good score on that pitch. Less than 100 though was a poor effort from both teams 2nd inns. Overall though, it was a poor surface. It looked very green and it was swinging and nipping about all over the place for the seamers. Look how many people got bowled. All you had to do was bowl straight and sooner or later you'd knock someone's timber over!
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Sept 21, 2022 17:03:53 GMT
Essex 59 all out chasing 90 odd to win against Lancashire. Crazy crazy game......... Just watched the end of it mate. Bonkers game Shame they couldn't force a win against Yorkshire the other week as that would've put them right in the title mix Poor pitch that. Essex should get points deducted. 40 wickets in 125 overs across under two days. A wicket every three overs! Matches should be going into the final two sessions of day four and be a good contest, not some daft lottery like this one clearly was.
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Post by partickpotter on Sept 21, 2022 18:06:27 GMT
Just watched the end of it mate. Bonkers game Shame they couldn't force a win against Yorkshire the other week as that would've put them right in the title mix Poor pitch that. Essex should get points deducted. 40 wickets in 125 overs across under two days. A wicket every three overs! Matches should be going into the final two sessions of day four and be a good contest, not some daft lottery like this one clearly was. It’s nearly fucking October. We are way past the time cricket should be being played domestically. I’d put the blame for the fiasco more down to the administrators than the groundsmen.
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Post by partickpotter on Sept 21, 2022 18:07:14 GMT
And how good to see test cricket being played at the height of summer.
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Sept 21, 2022 18:11:06 GMT
And how good to see test cricket being played at the height of summer. Its an absolute disgrace thst there’s no test cricket in August mate Some of the plans for the Royal London are scandalous as well with a knockout competition
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Post by professorplump on Sept 21, 2022 18:21:43 GMT
And how good to see test cricket being played at the height of summer. Its an absolute disgrace thst there’s no test cricket in August mate Some of the plans for the Royal London are scandalous as well with a knockout competition Yes, I was thinking that as well. The Cricket season for me effectively ends on the 31st July as I have no interest in The Hundred.
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Sept 21, 2022 18:27:44 GMT
Its an absolute disgrace thst there’s no test cricket in August mate Some of the plans for the Royal London are scandalous as well with a knockout competition Yes, I was thinking that as well. The Cricket season for me effectively ends on the 31st July as I have no interest in The Hundred. Spot on mate and I see rumour has it the championship will be 3 divisions of six teams🤔
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