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Post by thehartshillbadger on Sept 18, 2021 17:38:30 GMT
Nowt worse than an angry frog. They love a grudge Bollocks to the boat burners. Can't wait to see the French (and Remainer) petulance in full flow though. Perhaps they'll try and sabre rattle at Jersey again. Give them their due, they’re like some of the extreme lefties on here. Like a dog with a bone😉
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Post by franklin on Sept 18, 2021 18:06:05 GMT
I am not an expert on this subject but surely what the USA/UK/Aus have done to retaliate to Chinese expansionism. I can foresee a pact soon with India. The seizing of Johnson Reef in 1988 and Mischief Reef in 1995, Scarborough Shoal in 2012 and since launching major land reclamation in 2013, China has changed the South China Sea’s geopolitical map without firing a shot. However, China’s aggression in the northern Indian region of Ladakh (a high-altitude territory where the People’s Liberation Army has occupied several vantage points) differs from its previous territorial gains since the 1980s in that China went beyond its usual practice of occupying vacant border spaces by snatching territories from right under another country’s nose. Surely history teaches us that nations must come together to stop expansionist policies. Standing up to Russia in the Cuban missile crisis stopped Russia expanding its influence. We should have stood up to Napoleon and Hitler sooner before the reeked havoc across Europe. Sitting back and doing nothing or appeasing is a recipe for trouble. I am not advocating aggression, but standing up to bullies so they back down. The world needs to unite to stop China's expansionism before it is too late as it was with Hitler. The longer you leave it the worse it is when it comes to correcting the matter. Sitting back and doing nothing or appeasing is a recipe for trouble. as it only encourages bullies to bully more. I am not advocating aggression, but standing up to bullies so they back down. www.wionews.com/world/china-building-30-airports-near-indias-border-in-tibet-xinjiang-report-413459Surely the best way to counter China expansionism is to simply stop buying shit from there? Never mind wasting money on useless defence pacts. Just source your goods elsewhere. Seems strange to me that countries make out they want to stop them expanding whilst simultaneously feeding their economy and paying for it. Totally agree fuck their economy up.
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AUKUS
Sept 18, 2021 18:50:39 GMT
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Post by foster on Sept 18, 2021 18:50:39 GMT
Bollocks to the boat burners. Can't wait to see the French (and Remainer) petulance in full flow though. Perhaps they'll try and sabre rattle at Jersey again. Give them their due, they’re like some of the extreme lefties on here. Like a dog with a bone😉 Isn't it just the Brexit boys that have somehow brought it into this thread. Dogs and bones you were saying.
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Post by franklin on Sept 18, 2021 19:20:36 GMT
Nowt worse than an angry frog. They love a grudge I must admit having a chuckle to myself when they flounced off cancelling a gala and recalling ambassadors 😂
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AUKUS
Sept 18, 2021 19:23:53 GMT
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Sept 18, 2021 19:23:53 GMT
Give them their due, they’re like some of the extreme lefties on here. Like a dog with a bone😉 Isn't it just the Brexit boys that have somehow brought it into this thread. Dogs and bones you were saying. At the risk of being your next profile picture victim I’ve no idea what you’re talking about🤣
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Post by followyoudown on Sept 18, 2021 19:29:30 GMT
Nowt worse than an angry frog. They love a grudge I must admit having a chuckle to myself when they flounced off cancelling a gala and recalling ambassadors 😂 It's no way for friends to act they said 6 months or so after blocking the export of AZ vaccine to Australia, le karma est une chienne.
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Post by foster on Sept 18, 2021 19:34:21 GMT
Isn't it just the Brexit boys that have somehow brought it into this thread. Dogs and bones you were saying. At the risk of being your next profile picture victim I’ve no idea what you’re talking about🤣 I would never be so childish.
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AUKUS
Sept 18, 2021 19:35:20 GMT
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Sept 18, 2021 19:35:20 GMT
At the risk of being your next profile picture victim I’ve no idea what you’re talking about🤣 I would never be so childish. Thank god for that🤣
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Post by ashleyscfc on Sept 18, 2021 19:35:29 GMT
Just a change in Australia policy to have their subs go hidden for weeks at a time, and not popping up for fresh air every day. That’s not how diesel submarines work but ok
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AUKUS
Sept 18, 2021 20:08:16 GMT
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Post by franklin on Sept 18, 2021 20:08:16 GMT
I must admit having a chuckle to myself when they flounced off cancelling a gala and recalling ambassadors 😂 It's no way for friends to act they said 6 months or so after blocking the export of AZ vaccine to Australia, le karma est une chienne. Lol I know hilarious stuff I can smell burning Australian beef at barricades already in the streets of Paris 😂
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Post by thevoid on Sept 18, 2021 20:12:01 GMT
It's no way for friends to act they said 6 months or so after blocking the export of AZ vaccine to Australia, le karma est une chienne. Lol I know hilarious stuff I can smell burning Australian beef at barricades already in the streets of Paris 😂 Goes well with a pint of bitter I believe
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Post by franklin on Sept 18, 2021 20:14:55 GMT
Lol I know hilarious stuff I can smell burning Australian beef at barricades already in the streets of Paris 😂 Goes well with a pint of bitter I believe Not when its covered in petrol and lying in a Parisian gutter 😁 I loved the bit about NOT recalling the UK ambassador because we're a "bit player" and not relevant 😂 I'm amazed they can make wine with so much sour grapes 🤮
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AUKUS
Sept 18, 2021 21:16:51 GMT
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Post by foster on Sept 18, 2021 21:16:51 GMT
As funny as it might be imagining the French being annoyed. Let's put aside b Brexit sentiment and the fact that it's France.
You can't just go around scuppering the deals that our allies already have in place.
If any nation caused us to lose out on an already signed deal worth 50 billion then we too would rightly feel betrayed.
It's underhand in my opinion and not how you would want to be treated by a supposed ally.
The only country to gain out of this will be the US.
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AUKUS
Sept 18, 2021 22:18:04 GMT
Post by mrcoke on Sept 18, 2021 22:18:04 GMT
As funny as it might be imagining the French being annoyed. Let's put aside b Brexit sentiment and the fact that it's France. You can't just go around scuppering the deals that our allies already have in place. If any nation caused us to lose out on an already signed deal worth 50 billion then we too would rightly feel betrayed. It's underhand in my opinion and not how you would want to be treated by a supposed ally. The only country to gain out of this will be the US. What evidence do you have for saying someone was scuppering a deal? There has been enough evidence for many months that there was huge and growing dissatisfaction by Australia with the progress of the purchase: February 28th earlier this year: - maritime-executive.com/editorials/australia-reconsiders-70b-deal-for-french-submarinesAustralia told Macron back in June that they were considering pulling out of the deal: www.thehindu.com/news/international/australian-pm-says-he-made-clear-to-france-possibility-of-scrapping-submarine-deal/article36509726.eceThis rumour was circulating back in March: - antinuclear.net/2021/03/02/australias-purchase-of-vastly-expensive-french-nuclear-powered-submarine-design-adapted-to-diesel-now-to-be-scrapped/News broke in August that costs were ballooning out of control: - www.aspistrategist.org.au/the-strange-submarine-saga-how-did-we-get-there/Surely when you read all that it is hardly surprising that the Aussies have pulled the plug on the deal. It is not underhand to cancel an order when the supplier is demanding more and more money. I have sympathy with Australia and none with the French. In 1997 I had a project at a works I was managing to install a major piece of kit that would dramatically reduce our costs in terms of displacing a shift of employees and halving the use of the fleet of lorries. We went out for quotations for the plant and the contract was awarded to an Irish company. When we had the first project progress meeting with the Irish company they told us the machinery was being made in France and delivery would be later than agreed in the contract (stated in their tender document). In a similar thing to the problem the EU had with deliver of vaccines from AZ, there was nothing we could do about is as there was a "best endeavour" clause in the tender. The Irish company was told to go away and come back to the next progress meeting with a plan on how they would get back on schedule. At the next meeting a month later they came back and said that due to high orders and heavy demand on the French factory the machine would be even later! It became painfully apparent that someone had lied to get the order. Apologies for the long essay that no one will probably read.
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AUKUS
Sept 18, 2021 22:20:37 GMT
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Post by franklin on Sept 18, 2021 22:20:37 GMT
As funny as it might be imagining the French being annoyed. Let's put aside b Brexit sentiment and the fact that it's France. You can't just go around scuppering the deals that our allies already have in place. If any nation caused us to lose out on an already signed deal worth 50 billion then we too would rightly feel betrayed. It's underhand in my opinion and not how you would want to be treated by a supposed ally. The only country to gain out of this will be the US. What evidence do you have for saying someone was scuppering a deal? There has been enough evidence for many months that there was huge and growing dissatisfaction by Australia with the progress of the purchase: February 28th earlier this year: - maritime-executive.com/editorials/australia-reconsiders-70b-deal-for-french-submarinesAustralia told Macron back in June that they were considering pulling out of the deal: www.thehindu.com/news/international/australian-pm-says-he-made-clear-to-france-possibility-of-scrapping-submarine-deal/article36509726.eceThis rumour was circulating back in March: - antinuclear.net/2021/03/02/australias-purchase-of-vastly-expensive-french-nuclear-powered-submarine-design-adapted-to-diesel-now-to-be-scrapped/News broke in August that costs were ballooning out of control: - www.aspistrategist.org.au/the-strange-submarine-saga-how-did-we-get-there/Surely when you read all that it is hardly surprising that the Aussies have pulled the plug on the deal. It is not underhand to cancel an order when the supplier is demanding more and more money. I have sympathy with Australia and none with the French. In 1997 I had a project at a works I was managing to install a major piece of kit that would dramatically reduce our costs in terms of displacing a shift of employees and halving the use of the fleet of lorries. We went out for quotations for the plant and the contract was awarded to an Irish company. When we had the first project progress meeting with the Irish company they told us the machinery was being made in France and delivery would be later than agreed in the contract (stated in their tender document). In a similar thing to the problem the EU had with deliver of vaccines from AZ, there was nothing we could do about is as there was a "best endeavour" clause in the tender. The Irish company was told to go away and come back to the next progress meeting with a plan on how they would get back on schedule. At the next meeting a month later they came back and said that due to high orders and heavy demand on the French factory the machine would be even later! It became painfully apparent that someone had lied to get the order. Apologies for the long essay that no one will probably read. That's actually a very decent update on the situation.
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Sept 18, 2021 22:29:39 GMT
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Post by longdistancekiddie on Sept 18, 2021 22:29:39 GMT
As funny as it might be imagining the French being annoyed. Let's put aside b Brexit sentiment and the fact that it's France. You can't just go around scuppering the deals that our allies already have in place. If any nation caused us to lose out on an already signed deal worth 50 billion then we too would rightly feel betrayed. It's underhand in my opinion and not how you would want to be treated by a supposed ally. The only country to gain out of this will be the US. What evidence do you have for saying someone was scuppering a deal? There has been enough evidence for many months that there was huge and growing dissatisfaction by Australia with the progress of the purchase: February 28th earlier this year: - maritime-executive.com/editorials/australia-reconsiders-70b-deal-for-french-submarinesAustralia told Macron back in June that they were considering pulling out of the deal: www.thehindu.com/news/international/australian-pm-says-he-made-clear-to-france-possibility-of-scrapping-submarine-deal/article36509726.eceThis rumour was circulating back in March: - antinuclear.net/2021/03/02/australias-purchase-of-vastly-expensive-french-nuclear-powered-submarine-design-adapted-to-diesel-now-to-be-scrapped/News broke in August that costs were ballooning out of control: - www.aspistrategist.org.au/the-strange-submarine-saga-how-did-we-get-there/Surely when you read all that it is hardly surprising that the Aussies have pulled the plug on the deal. It is not underhand to cancel an order when the supplier is demanding more and more money. I have sympathy with Australia and none with the French. In 1997 I had a project at a works I was managing to install a major piece of kit that would dramatically reduce our costs in terms of displacing a shift of employees and halving the use of the fleet of lorries. We went out for quotations for the plant and the contract was awarded to an Irish company. When we had the first project progress meeting with the Irish company they told us the machinery was being made in France and delivery would be later than agreed in the contract (stated in their tender document). In a similar thing to the problem the EU had with deliver of vaccines from AZ, there was nothing we could do about is as there was a "best endeavour" clause in the tender. The Irish company was told to go away and come back to the next progress meeting with a plan on how they would get back on schedule. At the next meeting a month later they came back and said that due to high orders and heavy demand on the French factory the machine would be even later! It became painfully apparent that someone had lied to get the order. Apologies for the long essay that no one will probably read. There are better ways of reducing costs that don't involve putting people on the dole
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Sept 18, 2021 22:45:10 GMT
Post by mrcoke on Sept 18, 2021 22:45:10 GMT
What evidence do you have for saying someone was scuppering a deal? There has been enough evidence for many months that there was huge and growing dissatisfaction by Australia with the progress of the purchase: February 28th earlier this year: - maritime-executive.com/editorials/australia-reconsiders-70b-deal-for-french-submarinesAustralia told Macron back in June that they were considering pulling out of the deal: www.thehindu.com/news/international/australian-pm-says-he-made-clear-to-france-possibility-of-scrapping-submarine-deal/article36509726.eceThis rumour was circulating back in March: - antinuclear.net/2021/03/02/australias-purchase-of-vastly-expensive-french-nuclear-powered-submarine-design-adapted-to-diesel-now-to-be-scrapped/News broke in August that costs were ballooning out of control: - www.aspistrategist.org.au/the-strange-submarine-saga-how-did-we-get-there/Surely when you read all that it is hardly surprising that the Aussies have pulled the plug on the deal. It is not underhand to cancel an order when the supplier is demanding more and more money. I have sympathy with Australia and none with the French. In 1997 I had a project at a works I was managing to install a major piece of kit that would dramatically reduce our costs in terms of displacing a shift of employees and halving the use of the fleet of lorries. We went out for quotations for the plant and the contract was awarded to an Irish company. When we had the first project progress meeting with the Irish company they told us the machinery was being made in France and delivery would be later than agreed in the contract (stated in their tender document). In a similar thing to the problem the EU had with deliver of vaccines from AZ, there was nothing we could do about is as there was a "best endeavour" clause in the tender. The Irish company was told to go away and come back to the next progress meeting with a plan on how they would get back on schedule. At the next meeting a month later they came back and said that due to high orders and heavy demand on the French factory the machine would be even later! It became painfully apparent that someone had lied to get the order. Apologies for the long essay that no one will probably read. There are better ways of reducing costs that don't involve putting people on the dole 1. Almost all those who lost their jobs took voluntary redundancy or changed to another job in the company by being cross matched into another job of someone who wanted redundancy or early retirement. 2. Everyone who left received substantial redundancy payments* well in excess of the legal minimum. 3. All were licenced lorry drivers and easily picked up alternative employment with another company. I actually had a project at another works (British Steel) where I wanted invest in a fleet of lorries. But it did not proceed because all the workers wanted huge redundancy payments they were entitled to under the European Coal & Steel Community provisions. They all willingly left the company to start next day with transport companies. * I did have one employee take the company to court for unfair dismissal. He won his case on a technicality, but the court ordered zero compensation because the company had already paid the employee a substantial redundancy payment well in excess of the scales for compensation for wrongful dismissal.
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Post by xchpotter on Sept 19, 2021 2:23:23 GMT
As funny as it might be imagining the French being annoyed. Let's put aside b Brexit sentiment and the fact that it's France. You can't just go around scuppering the deals that our allies already have in place. If any nation caused us to lose out on an already signed deal worth 50 billion then we too would rightly feel betrayed. It's underhand in my opinion and not how you would want to be treated by a supposed ally. The only country to gain out of this will be the US. What evidence do you have for saying someone was scuppering a deal? There has been enough evidence for many months that there was huge and growing dissatisfaction by Australia with the progress of the purchase: February 28th earlier this year: - maritime-executive.com/editorials/australia-reconsiders-70b-deal-for-french-submarinesAustralia told Macron back in June that they were considering pulling out of the deal: www.thehindu.com/news/international/australian-pm-says-he-made-clear-to-france-possibility-of-scrapping-submarine-deal/article36509726.eceThis rumour was circulating back in March: - antinuclear.net/2021/03/02/australias-purchase-of-vastly-expensive-french-nuclear-powered-submarine-design-adapted-to-diesel-now-to-be-scrapped/News broke in August that costs were ballooning out of control: - www.aspistrategist.org.au/the-strange-submarine-saga-how-did-we-get-there/Surely when you read all that it is hardly surprising that the Aussies have pulled the plug on the deal. It is not underhand to cancel an order when the supplier is demanding more and more money. I have sympathy with Australia and none with the French. In 1997 I had a project at a works I was managing to install a major piece of kit that would dramatically reduce our costs in terms of displacing a shift of employees and halving the use of the fleet of lorries. We went out for quotations for the plant and the contract was awarded to an Irish company. When we had the first project progress meeting with the Irish company they told us the machinery was being made in France and delivery would be later than agreed in the contract (stated in their tender document). In a similar thing to the problem the EU had with deliver of vaccines from AZ, there was nothing we could do about is as there was a "best endeavour" clause in the tender. The Irish company was told to go away and come back to the next progress meeting with a plan on how they would get back on schedule. At the next meeting a month later they came back and said that due to high orders and heavy demand on the French factory the machine would be even later! It became painfully apparent that someone had lied to get the order. Apologies for the long essay that no one will probably read. I’ve been following this story for several months as I have an interest in this very topic and your summary is really useful. The bottom line is the French have done what they always do, reneged on a deal and changed terms to suit themselves. They are used to getting their own way because everyone is used to them engaging in this behaviour. The Aussies have finally had enough and taken positive action and the French have thrown their toys out of the pram in their typical petulant manner. Just what are you supposed to do when someone screws you over on a deal that would not deliver? Apply some more lube and keep on taking it? They got their comeuppance and it’s tough shit. I’m sure the rest of the world looks at these events for what they are and Australia’s integrity remains in tact whilst that of the French is just re enforced as what it is, lacking. As for whether you treat an ally this way? No you bloody don’t, which is what the French should have thought about when they tried to screw Australia over. Australia’s interests are far better served with trust and integrity with the UK and US than they would ever likely to be with France. I only wish our government would adopt a similar attitude towards our supposed allies across The Channel.
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Post by mrcoke on Sept 19, 2021 8:45:12 GMT
What evidence do you have for saying someone was scuppering a deal? There has been enough evidence for many months that there was huge and growing dissatisfaction by Australia with the progress of the purchase: February 28th earlier this year: - maritime-executive.com/editorials/australia-reconsiders-70b-deal-for-french-submarinesAustralia told Macron back in June that they were considering pulling out of the deal: www.thehindu.com/news/international/australian-pm-says-he-made-clear-to-france-possibility-of-scrapping-submarine-deal/article36509726.eceThis rumour was circulating back in March: - antinuclear.net/2021/03/02/australias-purchase-of-vastly-expensive-french-nuclear-powered-submarine-design-adapted-to-diesel-now-to-be-scrapped/News broke in August that costs were ballooning out of control: - www.aspistrategist.org.au/the-strange-submarine-saga-how-did-we-get-there/Surely when you read all that it is hardly surprising that the Aussies have pulled the plug on the deal. It is not underhand to cancel an order when the supplier is demanding more and more money. I have sympathy with Australia and none with the French. In 1997 I had a project at a works I was managing to install a major piece of kit that would dramatically reduce our costs in terms of displacing a shift of employees and halving the use of the fleet of lorries. We went out for quotations for the plant and the contract was awarded to an Irish company. When we had the first project progress meeting with the Irish company they told us the machinery was being made in France and delivery would be later than agreed in the contract (stated in their tender document). In a similar thing to the problem the EU had with deliver of vaccines from AZ, there was nothing we could do about is as there was a "best endeavour" clause in the tender. The Irish company was told to go away and come back to the next progress meeting with a plan on how they would get back on schedule. At the next meeting a month later they came back and said that due to high orders and heavy demand on the French factory the machine would be even later! It became painfully apparent that someone had lied to get the order. Apologies for the long essay that no one will probably read. I’ve been following this story for several months as I have an interest in this very topic and your summary is really useful. The bottom line is the French have done what they always do, reneged on a deal and changed terms to suit themselves. They are used to getting their own way because everyone is used to them engaging in this behaviour. The Aussies have finally had enough and taken positive action and the French have thrown their toys out of the pram in their typical petulant manner. Just what are you supposed to do when someone screws you over on a deal that would not deliver? Apply some more lube and keep on taking it? They got their comeuppance and it’s tough shit. I’m sure the rest of the world looks at these events for what they are and Australia’s integrity remains in tact whilst that of the French is just re enforced as what it is, lacking. As for whether you treat an ally this way? No you bloody don’t, which is what the French should have thought about when they tried to screw Australia over. Australia’s interests are far better served with trust and integrity with the UK and US than they would ever likely to be with France. I only wish our government would adopt a similar attitude towards our supposed allies across The Channel. Thanks for your response; here is an article from January that includes comments on concerns about the contract in 2020: intpolicydigest.org/sunk-before-service-australia-s-disastrous-submarine-project/The more you read about it the more you wonder why Australia got into it in the first place and then chose to go with a nuclear sub design adapted to diesel power. The fact that Australia has persisted and switched horses to American subs implies they must be deeply concerned about the Chinese encroachment southwards, despite the project being very unpopular with the Australian public and the money sunk* with the French. * I presume their will have been commitments made in 2018 and progress payments.
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Sept 19, 2021 9:32:16 GMT
Post by xchpotter on Sept 19, 2021 9:32:16 GMT
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Sept 19, 2021 9:35:32 GMT
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Post by harryburrows on Sept 19, 2021 9:35:32 GMT
As funny as it might be imagining the French being annoyed. Let's put aside b Brexit sentiment and the fact that it's France. You can't just go around scuppering the deals that our allies already have in place. If any nation caused us to lose out on an already signed deal worth 50 billion then we too would rightly feel betrayed. It's underhand in my opinion and not how you would want to be treated by a supposed ally. The only country to gain out of this will be the US. Thats a perfectly reasonable point of view except its the French !!!!!!
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Post by peekay67 on Sept 19, 2021 9:50:41 GMT
We are minor partner in this 'coalition'. France know that. We think it's another world beating piece of business.
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Post by thevoid on Sept 19, 2021 9:51:52 GMT
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Sept 19, 2021 9:59:30 GMT
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Post by longdistancekiddie on Sept 19, 2021 9:59:30 GMT
There are better ways of reducing costs that don't involve putting people on the dole 1. Almost all those who lost their jobs took voluntary redundancy or changed to another job in the company by being cross matched into another job of someone who wanted redundancy or early retirement. 2. Everyone who left received substantial redundancy payments* well in excess of the legal minimum. 3. All were licenced lorry drivers and easily picked up alternative employment with another company. I actually had a project at another works (British Steel) where I wanted invest in a fleet of lorries. But it did not proceed because all the workers wanted huge redundancy payments they were entitled to under the European Coal & Steel Community provisions. They all willingly left the company to start next day with transport companies. * I did have one employee take the company to court for unfair dismissal. He won his case on a technicality, but the court ordered zero compensation because the company had already paid the employee a substantial redundancy payment well in excess of the scales for compensation for wrongful dismissal. So no one got the pay and conditions they previously had. On the truck and driver thread you say that you don't have much knowledge of that industry and know you are saying that you where in charge of changing the British Steel transport fleet and the transfer to outside contract haulage,? . Did it make you feel good making people redundant.
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Sept 19, 2021 10:05:16 GMT
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Post by longdistancekiddie on Sept 19, 2021 10:05:16 GMT
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Sept 19, 2021 10:09:10 GMT
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Post by followyoudown on Sept 19, 2021 10:09:10 GMT
As funny as it might be imagining the French being annoyed. Let's put aside b Brexit sentiment and the fact that it's France. You can't just go around scuppering the deals that our allies already have in place. If any nation caused us to lose out on an already signed deal worth 50 billion then we too would rightly feel betrayed. It's underhand in my opinion and not how you would want to be treated by a supposed ally. The only country to gain out of this will be the US. If they had a signed contract that had proper penalty clauses there would no need for this fit of pique, I have seen people querying if there was a signed deal and if there was whether the french had already breached it due to delays, the fact they are throwing toys out of the pram rather than litigating tends to back this up. The french stopped legally bought and paid for vaccines going to their supposed allies in Australia, that goes way beyond underhand.
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Post by thevoid on Sept 19, 2021 10:09:42 GMT
You should know all about those, Brainiac. Anyway, I asked you some questions on various threads that I'm awaiting replies to. Any chance of anything happening today before the cooking sherry kicks in,,,or can we save time and agree that you're talking out of your arse as usual? 😆
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Post by lancer on Sept 19, 2021 10:10:06 GMT
Imagine if Russia, China and North Korea committed to this? There would be uproar, and rightfully so. This will undoubtedly lead to an escalation of the current tensions between said countries. I find it reckless,and will damage further relations, that are already on a knife edge. I don’t dare to think what would be the reaction if Trump was in power during this decision. Same as it ever was. Imagine if Russia, China and North Korea committed to this? They are,they just haven't told anyone.Do you think the Russians,Chinese and NK aren't conspiring against the West?
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Sept 19, 2021 10:16:51 GMT
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Post by prettything on Sept 19, 2021 10:16:51 GMT
Imagine if Russia, China and North Korea committed to this? There would be uproar, and rightfully so. This will undoubtedly lead to an escalation of the current tensions between said countries. I find it reckless,and will damage further relations, that are already on a knife edge. I don’t dare to think what would be the reaction if Trump was in power during this decision. Same as it ever was. Imagine if Russia, China and North Korea committed to this? They are,they just haven't told anyone.Do you think the Russians,Chinese and NK aren't conspiring against the West? I’m intrigued. Do tell?
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Sept 19, 2021 10:22:26 GMT
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Post by prettything on Sept 19, 2021 10:22:26 GMT
I think it depends what glasses you look through when you look at opposing powers and their behaviours. I find it interesting that you view that the US was “standing up” to Russian aggression when evaluating their actions during the crisis. An opposing view could counter by pointing out that the US had surrounded Russia with Nuclear silos around Europe, that were in direct touching distance of Russia, whilst Russia had none that could reach the US, due to the missiles range.It could also be viewed that by Russia doing the same, was simply countering the US’s aggression with a “strategic defence policy” of their own. That's fair comment, but again it was Russia that had an expansionist policy by controlling Soviet countries behind the iron curtain they created, including East Germany, which was unnecessary as they had Poland in between. So you could argue the missiles the USA deployed were saying to Russia "this far and no farther" . We live in a democracies in the West unlike Russia and China. The people would not tolerate a government that had expansionist policies. You wouldn't would you? The wars since WWII have been generally the West defending democracy, stopping totalitarian states, and despots, although I expect the "lefties" will say its all about defending capitalism and capitalist interests like oil reserves. I’m afraid I don’t agree at all. The West defending democracy, really? Iraq, Vietnam? It’s got nothing to do with “lefties”, I’m afraid.
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