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AUKUS
Sept 17, 2021 6:21:49 GMT
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Post by ravey123 on Sept 17, 2021 6:21:49 GMT
Is this deal/pact for nuclear powered submarines a “stab in the back” as claimed by the French or just the UK creating its own deals now that it is outside the EU.
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Post by Northy on Sept 17, 2021 6:55:32 GMT
Just a change in Australia policy to have their subs go hidden for weeks at a time, and not popping up for fresh air every day.
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AUKUS
Sept 17, 2021 7:36:10 GMT
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Post by mtrstudent on Sept 17, 2021 7:36:10 GMT
Just a change in Australia policy to have their subs go hidden for weeks at a time, and not popping up for fresh air every day. I always assumed the French had nuclear-powered subs too. You'd thing the Aussies could have bought some of those.
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AUKUS
Sept 17, 2021 7:55:43 GMT
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Sept 17, 2021 7:55:43 GMT
To be honest it's about the only decent thing this government have done along with taking us out the EU. Credit where its due. Finally standing up to China, love to see it.
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Post by Dutchpeter on Sept 17, 2021 8:19:13 GMT
I believe the Aussies regard the French submarine building contract as a rip off, hence the decision to partner with the US/UK. I’d say it’s pretty evident that AUKUS is a superior package. Post Brexit the Royal Navy is shifting its focus to the indo pacific region, so a partnership with an historic ally with similar strategic aims is no surprise. BAE’s Australian arm is already undertaking to build British designed Type 26 frigates in Australia, so I guess that Britain is regarded and established as a reliable partner in the maritime theatre out there. As to wether it’s an astute type submarine or an American class of hunter-killer remains to be seen. The Aussies will like the Brits and Yanks as blue ocean Navies that actually get out there and do something, as opposed to a less active European partner.
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AUKUS
Sept 17, 2021 8:21:21 GMT
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Post by harryburrows on Sept 17, 2021 8:21:21 GMT
Is this deal/pact for nuclear powered submarines a “stab in the back” as claimed by the French or just the UK creating its own deals now that it is outside the EU. I read its not clear if these subs will be UK or USA designed but they will be built in Australia
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AUKUS
Sept 17, 2021 10:28:45 GMT
Post by Northy on Sept 17, 2021 10:28:45 GMT
Just a change in Australia policy to have their subs go hidden for weeks at a time, and not popping up for fresh air every day. I always assumed the French had nuclear-powered subs too. You'd thing the Aussies could have bought some of those. they do, but the Aussies want to build them themselves, jobs for their own country instead of giving money to the French to build them
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AUKUS
Sept 17, 2021 10:35:22 GMT
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Post by foster on Sept 17, 2021 10:35:22 GMT
Is this deal/pact for nuclear powered submarines a “stab in the back” as claimed by the French or just the UK creating its own deals now that it is outside the EU. Yes. French had a deal already. We got in bed with the US, as usual.
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AUKUS
Sept 17, 2021 11:54:05 GMT
Post by Clem Fandango on Sept 17, 2021 11:54:05 GMT
Is this deal/pact for nuclear powered submarines a “stab in the back” as claimed by the French or just the UK creating its own deals now that it is outside the EU. I read its not clear if these subs will be UK or USA designed but they will be built in Australia I read a suggestion saying that out of all the options on the table (Astute and the two American options can't remember their names) that realistically none of them will work properly for Australia and that they may need to come up with their own design using UK and USA expertise to short cut the process. The big issue for Australia is that it doesn't have a nuclear industry so the reactors will have to come from UK or US.
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AUKUS
Sept 17, 2021 21:14:25 GMT
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Post by lordb on Sept 17, 2021 21:14:25 GMT
French have just recalled their ambassador from the United States
Astonishing
However is this deflection tactics by Macron?
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Post by Boothen on Sept 17, 2021 22:30:04 GMT
Anything that riles the frogs up to this degree is fine by me.
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AUKUS
Sept 17, 2021 23:13:00 GMT
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Post by prettything on Sept 17, 2021 23:13:00 GMT
Imagine if Russia, China and North Korea committed to this? There would be uproar, and rightfully so.
This will undoubtedly lead to an escalation of the current tensions between said countries.
I find it reckless,and will damage further relations, that are already on a knife edge.
I don’t dare to think what would be the reaction if Trump was in power during this decision.
Same as it ever was.
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Post by harryburrows on Sept 18, 2021 3:40:10 GMT
Anything that riles the frogs up to this degree is fine by me. That'll teach em to mess with our oysters 😋
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AUKUS
Sept 18, 2021 3:47:54 GMT
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Northy likes this
Post by harryburrows on Sept 18, 2021 3:47:54 GMT
Imagine if Russia, China and North Korea committed to this? There would be uproar, and rightfully so. This will undoubtedly lead to an escalation of the current tensions between said countries. I find it reckless,and will damage further relations, that are already on a knife edge. I don’t dare to think what would be the reaction if Trump was in power during this decision. Same as it ever was. China , Russia and North Korea have been responsible for the knife edge with their aggressive bully boy tactics, in Ukraine/Crimea, Taiwan, South China seas North Korea have been threatening to wipe out USA for years .
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AUKUS
Sept 18, 2021 5:12:58 GMT
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Post by heworksardtho on Sept 18, 2021 5:12:58 GMT
The chinks will be shitting it 😉
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AUKUS
Sept 18, 2021 5:30:14 GMT
Post by Boothen on Sept 18, 2021 5:30:14 GMT
China may have the numbers, but they're just a huge paper tiger - and they know it. It's the cyber and other spooky shit that concerns me more than their actual armed forces.
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Post by xchpotter on Sept 18, 2021 5:42:51 GMT
I’ve watched some videos on line at an Australian defence committee before the AUKUS development and the initial deal was astonishingly bad for Australia. There were issues about the capability and capacity from the onset. However, reports suggest that even after this poor deal the French then changed it further with increased costs and more production being carried out in France as opposed to Australia as agreed. It appears a very simple case of the goal posts being changed and Australia doesn’t tend to mess about when looking out for her own interests. The French reaction is just what they do, but in the long term Australia will have good kit with trusted allies who will deliver.
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AUKUS
Sept 18, 2021 11:47:06 GMT
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Post by prettything on Sept 18, 2021 11:47:06 GMT
Imagine if Russia, China and North Korea committed to this? There would be uproar, and rightfully so. This will undoubtedly lead to an escalation of the current tensions between said countries. I find it reckless,and will damage further relations, that are already on a knife edge. I don’t dare to think what would be the reaction if Trump was in power during this decision. Same as it ever was. China , Russia and North Korea have been responsible for the knife edge with their aggressive bully boy tactics, in Ukraine/Crimea, Taiwan, South China seas North Korea have been threatening to wipe out USA for years . That is true, but the Western powers have to share responsibility too I’m afraid. Don’t think I need to remind you of our illegal war in the early 2000s, do I? Both sides are to blame, and this will only male things worse. We have learnt nothing from the past.
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Post by harryburrows on Sept 18, 2021 12:24:42 GMT
China , Russia and North Korea have been responsible for the knife edge with their aggressive bully boy tactics, in Ukraine/Crimea, Taiwan, South China seas North Korea have been threatening to wipe out USA for years . That is true, but the Western powers have to share responsibility too I’m afraid. Don’t think I need to remind you of our illegal war in the early 2000s, do I? Both sides are to blame, and this will only male things worse. We have learnt nothing from the past. Having a strategic defence policy isn't the same as starting a war , helping our global partners is quite normal as is nato
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AUKUS
Sept 18, 2021 12:58:33 GMT
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Post by prettything on Sept 18, 2021 12:58:33 GMT
That is true, but the Western powers have to share responsibility too I’m afraid. Don’t think I need to remind you of our illegal war in the early 2000s, do I? Both sides are to blame, and this will only male things worse. We have learnt nothing from the past. Having a strategic defence policy isn't the same as starting a war , helping our global partners is quite normal as is nato I’m afraid I don’t like the wording of a “strategic defence policy” A “strategic defence policy”is one of the main factors contributing the start of WW1, never mind taking the world to the brink of nuclear war during the Cuban missile crisis. There are countless other examples of this throughout history. I’m sure China will retaliate with a “strategic defence policy” of their own in the coming months.
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Post by mrcoke on Sept 18, 2021 13:28:42 GMT
Having a strategic defence policy isn't the same as starting a war , helping our global partners is quite normal as is nato I’m afraid I don’t like the wording of a “strategic defence policy” A “strategic defence policy”is one of the main factors contributing the start of WW1, never mind taking the world to the brink of nuclear war during the Cuban missile crisis. There are countless other examples of this throughout history. I’m sure China will retaliate with a “strategic defence policy” of their own in the coming months. I am not an expert on this subject but surely what the USA/UK/Aus have done to retaliate to Chinese expansionism. I can foresee a pact soon with India. The seizing of Johnson Reef in 1988 and Mischief Reef in 1995, Scarborough Shoal in 2012 and since launching major land reclamation in 2013, China has changed the South China Sea’s geopolitical map without firing a shot. However, China’s aggression in the northern Indian region of Ladakh (a high-altitude territory where the People’s Liberation Army has occupied several vantage points) differs from its previous territorial gains since the 1980s in that China went beyond its usual practice of occupying vacant border spaces by snatching territories from right under another country’s nose. Surely history teaches us that nations must come together to stop expansionist policies. Standing up to Russia in the Cuban missile crisis stopped Russia expanding its influence. We should have stood up to Napoleon and Hitler sooner before the reeked havoc across Europe. Sitting back and doing nothing or appeasing is a recipe for trouble. I am not advocating aggression, but standing up to bullies so they back down. The world needs to unite to stop China's expansionism before it is too late as it was with Hitler. The longer you leave it the worse it is when it comes to correcting the matter. Sitting back and doing nothing or appeasing is a recipe for trouble. as it only encourages bullies to bully more. I am not advocating aggression, but standing up to bullies so they back down. www.wionews.com/world/china-building-30-airports-near-indias-border-in-tibet-xinjiang-report-413459
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AUKUS
Sept 18, 2021 13:35:08 GMT
Post by JoeinOz on Sept 18, 2021 13:35:08 GMT
In launching a body named AUKUS, A western security caucus, Joe thanked, in a blunder, "The fella down under", Engendering laughter most raucous.
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AUKUS
Sept 18, 2021 13:49:25 GMT
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Post by prettything on Sept 18, 2021 13:49:25 GMT
I’m afraid I don’t like the wording of a “strategic defence policy” A “strategic defence policy”is one of the main factors contributing the start of WW1, never mind taking the world to the brink of nuclear war during the Cuban missile crisis. There are countless other examples of this throughout history. I’m sure China will retaliate with a “strategic defence policy” of their own in the coming months. I am not an expert on this subject but surely what the USA/UK/Aus have done to retaliate to Chinese expansionism. I can foresee a pact soon with India. The seizing of Johnson Reef in 1988 and Mischief Reef in 1995, Scarborough Shoal in 2012 and since launching major land reclamation in 2013, China has changed the South China Sea’s geopolitical map without firing a shot. However, China’s aggression in the northern Indian region of Ladakh (a high-altitude territory where the People’s Liberation Army has occupied several vantage points) differs from its previous territorial gains since the 1980s in that China went beyond its usual practice of occupying vacant border spaces by snatching territories from right under another country’s nose. Surely history teaches us that nations must come together to stop expansionist policies. Standing up to Russia in the Cuban missile crisis stopped Russia expanding its influence. We should have stood up to Napoleon and Hitler sooner before the reeked havoc across Europe. Sitting back and doing nothing or appeasing is a recipe for trouble. I am not advocating aggression, but standing up to bullies so they back down. The world needs to unite to stop China's expansionism before it is too late as it was with Hitler. The longer you leave it the worse it is when it comes to correcting the matter. Sitting back and doing nothing or appeasing is a recipe for trouble. as it only encourages bullies to bully more. I am not advocating aggression, but standing up to bullies so they back down. www.wionews.com/world/china-building-30-airports-near-indias-border-in-tibet-xinjiang-report-413459I think it depends what glasses you look through when you look at opposing powers and their behaviours. I find it interesting that you view that the US was “standing up” to Russian aggression when evaluating their actions during the crisis. An opposing view could counter by pointing out that the US had surrounded Russia with Nuclear silos around Europe, that were in direct touching distance of Russia, whilst Russia had none that could reach the US, due to the missiles range.It could also be viewed that by Russia doing the same, was simply countering the US’s aggression with a “strategic defence policy” of their own.
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AUKUS
Sept 18, 2021 16:58:48 GMT
Post by foster on Sept 18, 2021 16:58:48 GMT
I’m afraid I don’t like the wording of a “strategic defence policy” A “strategic defence policy”is one of the main factors contributing the start of WW1, never mind taking the world to the brink of nuclear war during the Cuban missile crisis. There are countless other examples of this throughout history. I’m sure China will retaliate with a “strategic defence policy” of their own in the coming months. I am not an expert on this subject but surely what the USA/UK/Aus have done to retaliate to Chinese expansionism. I can foresee a pact soon with India. The seizing of Johnson Reef in 1988 and Mischief Reef in 1995, Scarborough Shoal in 2012 and since launching major land reclamation in 2013, China has changed the South China Sea’s geopolitical map without firing a shot. However, China’s aggression in the northern Indian region of Ladakh (a high-altitude territory where the People’s Liberation Army has occupied several vantage points) differs from its previous territorial gains since the 1980s in that China went beyond its usual practice of occupying vacant border spaces by snatching territories from right under another country’s nose. Surely history teaches us that nations must come together to stop expansionist policies. Standing up to Russia in the Cuban missile crisis stopped Russia expanding its influence. We should have stood up to Napoleon and Hitler sooner before the reeked havoc across Europe. Sitting back and doing nothing or appeasing is a recipe for trouble. I am not advocating aggression, but standing up to bullies so they back down. The world needs to unite to stop China's expansionism before it is too late as it was with Hitler. The longer you leave it the worse it is when it comes to correcting the matter. Sitting back and doing nothing or appeasing is a recipe for trouble. as it only encourages bullies to bully more. I am not advocating aggression, but standing up to bullies so they back down. www.wionews.com/world/china-building-30-airports-near-indias-border-in-tibet-xinjiang-report-413459Surely the best way to counter China expansionism is to simply stop buying shit from there? Never mind wasting money on useless defence pacts. Just source your goods elsewhere. Seems strange to me that countries make out they want to stop them expanding whilst simultaneously feeding their economy and paying for it.
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AUKUS
Sept 18, 2021 17:10:42 GMT
Post by mrcoke on Sept 18, 2021 17:10:42 GMT
I am not an expert on this subject but surely what the USA/UK/Aus have done to retaliate to Chinese expansionism. I can foresee a pact soon with India. The seizing of Johnson Reef in 1988 and Mischief Reef in 1995, Scarborough Shoal in 2012 and since launching major land reclamation in 2013, China has changed the South China Sea’s geopolitical map without firing a shot. However, China’s aggression in the northern Indian region of Ladakh (a high-altitude territory where the People’s Liberation Army has occupied several vantage points) differs from its previous territorial gains since the 1980s in that China went beyond its usual practice of occupying vacant border spaces by snatching territories from right under another country’s nose. Surely history teaches us that nations must come together to stop expansionist policies. Standing up to Russia in the Cuban missile crisis stopped Russia expanding its influence. We should have stood up to Napoleon and Hitler sooner before the reeked havoc across Europe. Sitting back and doing nothing or appeasing is a recipe for trouble. I am not advocating aggression, but standing up to bullies so they back down. The world needs to unite to stop China's expansionism before it is too late as it was with Hitler. The longer you leave it the worse it is when it comes to correcting the matter. Sitting back and doing nothing or appeasing is a recipe for trouble. as it only encourages bullies to bully more. I am not advocating aggression, but standing up to bullies so they back down. www.wionews.com/world/china-building-30-airports-near-indias-border-in-tibet-xinjiang-report-413459I think it depends what glasses you look through when you look at opposing powers and their behaviours. I find it interesting that you view that the US was “standing up” to Russian aggression when evaluating their actions during the crisis. An opposing view could counter by pointing out that the US had surrounded Russia with Nuclear silos around Europe, that were in direct touching distance of Russia, whilst Russia had none that could reach the US, due to the missiles range.It could also be viewed that by Russia doing the same, was simply countering the US’s aggression with a “strategic defence policy” of their own. That's fair comment, but again it was Russia that had an expansionist policy by controlling Soviet countries behind the iron curtain they created, including East Germany, which was unnecessary as they had Poland in between. So you could argue the missiles the USA deployed were saying to Russia "this far and no farther" . We live in a democracies in the West unlike Russia and China. The people would not tolerate a government that had expansionist policies. You wouldn't would you? The wars since WWII have been generally the West defending democracy, stopping totalitarian states, and despots, although I expect the "lefties" will say its all about defending capitalism and capitalist interests like oil reserves.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Sept 18, 2021 17:16:28 GMT
Nowt worse than an angry frog. They love a grudge
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AUKUS
Sept 18, 2021 17:20:48 GMT
Post by xchpotter on Sept 18, 2021 17:20:48 GMT
I am not an expert on this subject but surely what the USA/UK/Aus have done to retaliate to Chinese expansionism. I can foresee a pact soon with India. The seizing of Johnson Reef in 1988 and Mischief Reef in 1995, Scarborough Shoal in 2012 and since launching major land reclamation in 2013, China has changed the South China Sea’s geopolitical map without firing a shot. However, China’s aggression in the northern Indian region of Ladakh (a high-altitude territory where the People’s Liberation Army has occupied several vantage points) differs from its previous territorial gains since the 1980s in that China went beyond its usual practice of occupying vacant border spaces by snatching territories from right under another country’s nose. Surely history teaches us that nations must come together to stop expansionist policies. Standing up to Russia in the Cuban missile crisis stopped Russia expanding its influence. We should have stood up to Napoleon and Hitler sooner before the reeked havoc across Europe. Sitting back and doing nothing or appeasing is a recipe for trouble. I am not advocating aggression, but standing up to bullies so they back down. The world needs to unite to stop China's expansionism before it is too late as it was with Hitler. The longer you leave it the worse it is when it comes to correcting the matter. Sitting back and doing nothing or appeasing is a recipe for trouble. as it only encourages bullies to bully more. I am not advocating aggression, but standing up to bullies so they back down. www.wionews.com/world/china-building-30-airports-near-indias-border-in-tibet-xinjiang-report-413459Surely the best way to counter China expansionism is to simply stop buying shit from there? Never mind wasting money on useless defence pacts. Just source your goods elsewhere. Seems strange to me that countries make out they want to stop them expanding whilst simultaneously feeding their economy and paying for it. Of course it would, but could you imagine the hoards in Poundland moaning their bag off because something cost half as much again? Mind you, it’s not just the cheap shit, major brand manufacturers make their stuff in China too. It would take a global effort to bring China to their knees but the consumers and shareholders would just not tolerate it.
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Post by thevoid on Sept 18, 2021 17:21:59 GMT
Is this deal/pact for nuclear powered submarines a “stab in the back” as claimed by the French or just the UK creating its own deals now that it is outside the EU. Yes. French had a deal already. We got in bed with the US, as usual. Makes sense. Like it or not we have more in common with the Americans (apart from sport).
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Post by thevoid on Sept 18, 2021 17:24:13 GMT
Nowt worse than an angry frog. They love a grudge Bollocks to the boat burners. Can't wait to see the French (and Remainer) petulance in full flow though. Perhaps they'll try and sabre rattle at Jersey again.
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AUKUS
Sept 18, 2021 17:29:53 GMT
Post by mrcoke on Sept 18, 2021 17:29:53 GMT
I am not an expert on this subject but surely what the USA/UK/Aus have done to retaliate to Chinese expansionism. I can foresee a pact soon with India. The seizing of Johnson Reef in 1988 and Mischief Reef in 1995, Scarborough Shoal in 2012 and since launching major land reclamation in 2013, China has changed the South China Sea’s geopolitical map without firing a shot. However, China’s aggression in the northern Indian region of Ladakh (a high-altitude territory where the People’s Liberation Army has occupied several vantage points) differs from its previous territorial gains since the 1980s in that China went beyond its usual practice of occupying vacant border spaces by snatching territories from right under another country’s nose. Surely history teaches us that nations must come together to stop expansionist policies. Standing up to Russia in the Cuban missile crisis stopped Russia expanding its influence. We should have stood up to Napoleon and Hitler sooner before the reeked havoc across Europe. Sitting back and doing nothing or appeasing is a recipe for trouble. I am not advocating aggression, but standing up to bullies so they back down. The world needs to unite to stop China's expansionism before it is too late as it was with Hitler. The longer you leave it the worse it is when it comes to correcting the matter. Sitting back and doing nothing or appeasing is a recipe for trouble. as it only encourages bullies to bully more. I am not advocating aggression, but standing up to bullies so they back down. www.wionews.com/world/china-building-30-airports-near-indias-border-in-tibet-xinjiang-report-413459Surely the best way to counter China expansionism is to simply stop buying shit from there? Never mind wasting money on useless defence pacts. Just source your goods elsewhere. Seems strange to me that countries make out they want to stop them expanding whilst simultaneously feeding their economy and paying for it. Nobody is forced to buy Chinese goods. Are you suggesting Western government impose a bad on the importation of Chinese goods? Do you think you should be banned from buying from where you want to? Not spending money of defence is not going to stop other countries building massive armed forces to impose their will on others. I like your idea, but it seems everyone is opposed to a metallurgical coal mine in Cumbria and happy to buy it from Russia to feed our steel industry. Or shut our steel industry and buy steel from China. It's called freedom of choice. Germany's highest import country is China as is the UK's now as China has displaced Germany.
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