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Post by iancransonsknees on Jan 15, 2023 13:01:35 GMT
Something doesn't add up. I'm not familiar with the case, but I assume 6 different women accused him of rape? At what point do the accusations, in effect, form part of the evidence? If you said to me "X raped Y", I would probably say "that's a heck of an accusation, but I'm going to wait for the courts to deal with that". If you said "X raped A, B, C, D, E and Y", I would probably say "sick evil bastard". Either 6 women have lied, perhaps in collusion or we have had an unforgivable miscarriage of justice. Rape is incredibly hard to prove beyond all reasonable doubt as it is often “he says, she says” and there is often no helpful evidence. It can be complex, where the alleged victim is game for it then changes their mind and voices this (sometimes half way through sex) and if the alleged perpetrator doesn’t immediately stop, it is technically rape, but very different from a violent rape by a stranger being jumped (and far less physical evidence). Just because he hasn’t been found guilty, it doesn’t mean he didn’t do it. Rightly, the criminal burden of proof is very high and it makes rape about the hardest of crimes to prove. Says a lot about Randy Conteh's conviction for it then.
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Post by wannabee on Jan 17, 2023 4:10:37 GMT
so he cant be found guilty on the counts yet his reputation is shattered and his lucrative career is destroyed (yes he might face retrial and has further trials coming up) i do believe in these cases all parties should have anonymity until the conclusion of a case, if guilty then its feeding time but if found innocent the accused will never shake the stigma with such a charge, look at Ched Evans and the circus that followed his successful appeal and retrial it just does not sit well with me, quite rightly the accuser remains anonymous but the accused should also be offered this until a guilty plea or verdict is given i suppose the issue then comes at where the line is drawn on anonymity in crimes and who gets this "protection" look at the case of Christopher Jeffries and how an innocent man who was only interviewed by the police was destroyed by the media i dont need anybody with me for a conversation do I! Today as a result of the bravery of one Rape Victim coming forward and naming David Carrick a further 12 Victims of David Carrick's Evil came forward This was acknowledged by the Police investigating his crimes as crucial in his conviction A compelling reason to name the alleged perpetrator of the crime www.nationalworld.com/news/crime/pc-david-carrick-full-timeline-of-rapist-met-police-officers-sex-attacks-over-18-years-with-impunity-3988660
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Post by felonious on Jan 17, 2023 7:56:09 GMT
so he cant be found guilty on the counts yet his reputation is shattered and his lucrative career is destroyed (yes he might face retrial and has further trials coming up) i do believe in these cases all parties should have anonymity until the conclusion of a case, if guilty then its feeding time but if found innocent the accused will never shake the stigma with such a charge, look at Ched Evans and the circus that followed his successful appeal and retrial it just does not sit well with me, quite rightly the accuser remains anonymous but the accused should also be offered this until a guilty plea or verdict is given i suppose the issue then comes at where the line is drawn on anonymity in crimes and who gets this "protection" look at the case of Christopher Jeffries and how an innocent man who was only interviewed by the police was destroyed by the media i dont need anybody with me for a conversation do I! Today as a result of the bravery of one Rape Victim coming forward and naming David Carrick a further 12 Victims of David Carrick's Evil came forward This was acknowledged by the Police investigating his crimes as crucial in his conviction A compelling reason to name the alleged perpetrator of the crime www.nationalworld.com/news/crime/pc-david-carrick-full-timeline-of-rapist-met-police-officers-sex-attacks-over-18-years-with-impunity-3988660.... and yet naming and shaming has that element of guilty until proved innocent about it and goes against the spirit of justice. Look at Cliff Richard's life after exposure to press and public opinion thankfully he had the fortitude, friend support and financial resources to deal with it. The likeliyhood now is that Mendy has been found not guilty in a court only.
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Post by flea79 on Jan 17, 2023 9:05:34 GMT
so he cant be found guilty on the counts yet his reputation is shattered and his lucrative career is destroyed (yes he might face retrial and has further trials coming up) i do believe in these cases all parties should have anonymity until the conclusion of a case, if guilty then its feeding time but if found innocent the accused will never shake the stigma with such a charge, look at Ched Evans and the circus that followed his successful appeal and retrial it just does not sit well with me, quite rightly the accuser remains anonymous but the accused should also be offered this until a guilty plea or verdict is given i suppose the issue then comes at where the line is drawn on anonymity in crimes and who gets this "protection" look at the case of Christopher Jeffries and how an innocent man who was only interviewed by the police was destroyed by the media i dont need anybody with me for a conversation do I! Today as a result of the bravery of one Rape Victim coming forward and naming David Carrick a further 12 Victims of David Carrick's Evil came forward This was acknowledged by the Police investigating his crimes as crucial in his conviction A compelling reason to name the alleged perpetrator of the crime www.nationalworld.com/news/crime/pc-david-carrick-full-timeline-of-rapist-met-police-officers-sex-attacks-over-18-years-with-impunity-3988660quite right, similar with the Jimmy Savile case, once he was publicly outed more came forwards its a double edged sword and there is no right or wrong answer, i was just thinking out loud really
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 17, 2023 22:41:11 GMT
so he cant be found guilty on the counts yet his reputation is shattered and his lucrative career is destroyed (yes he might face retrial and has further trials coming up) i do believe in these cases all parties should have anonymity until the conclusion of a case, if guilty then its feeding time but if found innocent the accused will never shake the stigma with such a charge, look at Ched Evans and the circus that followed his successful appeal and retrial it just does not sit well with me, quite rightly the accuser remains anonymous but the accused should also be offered this until a guilty plea or verdict is given i suppose the issue then comes at where the line is drawn on anonymity in crimes and who gets this "protection" look at the case of Christopher Jeffries and how an innocent man who was only interviewed by the police was destroyed by the media i dont need anybody with me for a conversation do I! Today as a result of the bravery of one Rape Victim coming forward and naming David Carrick a further 12 Victims of David Carrick's Evil came forward This was acknowledged by the Police investigating his crimes as crucial in his conviction A compelling reason to name the alleged perpetrator of the crime www.nationalworld.com/news/crime/pc-david-carrick-full-timeline-of-rapist-met-police-officers-sex-attacks-over-18-years-with-impunity-3988660It's certainly a reason but I'm still unsure how compelling it is. By way of example, let's assume the accused is YOUR son. And he's built up a public profile through hard work and talent but all of that is all about to be destroyed because another person is a liar. It's a really tough decision to have to make on which method to adopt but living in a democracy, I absolutely HAVE to believe in the premise of innocence until guilt is proven and as such, BOTH the accused and the accuser should remain anonymous until the trial is over, innocent people simply can't have their lives destroyed so easily. Yes it might mean that further victims might not be prompted to come forward prior to the case but imo that is an unfortunate outcome that we have to swallow to protect the innocent. Of course once a verdict has been reached and the accused has been found guilty, THEN the anonymity will be removed and the verdict made public and then further victims will have the opportunity to come forward. Indeed today has seen the Met inundated with calls from potential victims, as a result of the conviction of Carrick yesterday.
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Post by wannabee on Jan 17, 2023 23:54:40 GMT
It's certainly a reason but I'm still unsure how compelling it is. By way of example, let's assume the accused is YOUR son. And he's built up a public profile through hard work and talent but all of that is all about to be destroyed because another person is a liar. It's a really tough decision to have to make on which method to adopt but living in a democracy, I absolutely HAVE to believe in the premise of innocence until guilt is proven and as such, BOTH the accused and the accuser should remain anonymous until the trial is over, innocent people simply can't have their lives destroyed so easily. Yes it might mean that further victims might not be prompted to come forward prior to the case but imo that is an unfortunate outcome that we have to swallow to protect the innocent. Of course once a verdict has been reached and the accused has been found guilty, THEN the anonymity will be removed and the verdict made public and then further victims will have the opportunity to come forward. Indeed today has seen the Met inundated with calls from potential victims, as a result of the conviction of Carrick yesterday. I admit Paul it's a tough one, I could be flippant and say that I would hope that if I had a son, I don't, I would have brought him up to not put himself in that position. But that is a Cop Out as I know there have been men who were totally innocent of this horrendous crime, wrongly accused, but have had their lives made a misery even after being found innocent. Shit sticks and people make arbitrary opinions about someone's innocence or guilt based on bizarre reasons irrespective of the outcome of a Trial The Ched Evans situation is a classic case of ambiguity and what constitutes consent and people have a differing opinion no matter the outcome of the Trial and Appeal I could question Mendy's lifestyle as the reason why it placed him in a vulnerable position but who am I to judge his morals if he has not committed a crime. I am in favour of prosecuting Women who make false malicious claims as it ultimately hurts other genuine victims Like in this case www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-wiltshire-41692026.ampAnd this www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jan/03/eleanor-williams-lied-grooming-gang-guilty-perverting-justiceSpecifically in the David Carrick case it was stated by the Lead Investigating Detective that unless one brave rape victim had come forward which gave publicly and provoked other victims to have the courage to also come forward, a charge, never mind a conviction, would have been problematic So on balance I'm reluctantly content to keep the current arrangements
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jul 14, 2023 14:35:39 GMT
It was clear the case against him wasn't a concrete one as the CPS dragged it out for ages, he's been cleared of all charges.....
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 14, 2023 15:18:01 GMT
It was clear the case against him wasn't a concrete one as the CPS dragged it out for ages, he's been cleared of all charges..... Two years of hell. God knows how many months in jail. Career and reputation in tatters. Millions lost in earnings. Found not guilty on every charge.
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Jul 14, 2023 15:22:17 GMT
Bloody hell.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jul 14, 2023 15:25:10 GMT
It was clear the case against him wasn't a concrete one as the CPS dragged it out for ages, he's been cleared of all charges..... Two years of hell. God knows how many months in jail. Career and reputation in tatters. Millions lost in earnings. Found not guilty on every charge. Reading the local news (MEN mainly) something never seemed quite right about the whole case. It just seemed like this was always going to be the verdict and I'm sure questioned will be asked of the GMP and CPS.........
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Jul 14, 2023 17:03:09 GMT
This news, once again, highlights the absurd rule where the accused is named straight away and the accusers remain anonymous. Get their faces all over the media for being liars and potentially destroying a young man’s life? No I didn’t think so
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Post by cvillestokie on Jul 14, 2023 17:09:04 GMT
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Jul 14, 2023 17:11:31 GMT
I didn’t say that but this case is multiple women looking for a quick buck.
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Post by wannabee on Jul 14, 2023 17:35:10 GMT
I didn’t say that but this case is multiple women looking for a quick buck. I didn't particularly follow the case that much but as a high profile footballer it was unavailable A decision to charge and thus name would be based on Police Evidence and a review by CPS on probability of conviction so as Prestwick says questions to answer there The conviction rate to complaint is ludicrously low as Cville says because is a notoriously difficult case to prove without witnesses and he said she said and consent There is no easy solution. My previous comment on this was that I was conflicted on naming but reluctantly on balance favoured the status quo
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Jul 14, 2023 17:41:53 GMT
I didn’t say that but this case is multiple women looking for a quick buck. I didn't particularly follow the case that much but as a high profile footballer it was unavailable A decision to charge and thus name would be based on Police Evidence and a review by CPS on probability of conviction so as Prestwick says questions to answer there The conviction rate to complaint is ludicrously low as Cville says because is a notoriously difficult case to prove without witnesses and he said she said and consent There is no easy solution. My previous comment on this was that I was conflicted on naming but reluctantly on balance favoured the status quo How many women came forward against Mendy and how many were proven? I don’t think anybody should be named based on the stats of non conviction rate. I agree with Cville and yourself in that the figure of 99% is so high as it’s a difficult charge to prove but that just adds to the need to change in my opinion. I have first hand experience of what this kind of accusation can do to a young man’s life. I dread to think what it’s like as someone in the public spotlight.
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Post by yeswilko on Jul 14, 2023 17:49:04 GMT
This news, once again, highlights the absurd rule where the accused is named straight away and the accusers remain anonymous. Get their faces all over the media for being liars and potentially destroying a young man’s life? No I didn’t think so Have they been proven to be liars?
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Jul 14, 2023 17:56:41 GMT
This news, once again, highlights the absurd rule where the accused is named straight away and the accusers remain anonymous. Get their faces all over the media for being liars and potentially destroying a young man’s life? No I didn’t think so Have they been proven to be liars? No but I guess what I’m getting at is that naming the accused from the beginning immediately brings the usual “Kangeroo court” as Werrington likes to put it and it just annoys me that there’s a probability these women were fabricating a story together in order to get a pay off. If it was one person I’d be more inclined to think it may possibly be a miscarriage of justice. Something just doesn’t sit right.
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Post by yeswilko on Jul 14, 2023 18:12:37 GMT
Have they been proven to be liars? No but I guess what I’m getting at is that naming the accused from the beginning immediately brings the usual “Kangeroo court” as Werrington likes to put it and it just annoys me that there’s a probability these women were fabricating a story together in order to get a pay off. If it was one person I’d be more inclined to think it may possibly be a miscarriage of justice. Something just doesn’t sit right. There's a possibility. It's just so hard to prove isn't it. Anyone proven to have lied about such a crime should face a severe prison sentence. There's also incredible numbers of women that never get justice. Awful situation.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Jul 14, 2023 18:17:54 GMT
No but I guess what I’m getting at is that naming the accused from the beginning immediately brings the usual “Kangeroo court” as Werrington likes to put it and it just annoys me that there’s a probability these women were fabricating a story together in order to get a pay off. If it was one person I’d be more inclined to think it may possibly be a miscarriage of justice. Something just doesn’t sit right. There's a possibility. It's just so hard to prove isn't it. Anyone proven to have lied about such a crime should face a severe prison sentence. There's also incredible numbers of women that never get justice. Awful situation. It is, maybe I was a little hasty but it just sticks in the craw that a young professionals life has been in tatters due to these allegations. I wonder if during the case these women were actually found to be lying beyond all reasonable doubt or it was just lack of evidence or whatever. Like I said before, having seen this kind of case first hand and witnessing the accuser countless times bragging about it in public it probably amplifies my opinion on the subject
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Post by yeswilko on Jul 14, 2023 18:30:55 GMT
There's a possibility. It's just so hard to prove isn't it. Anyone proven to have lied about such a crime should face a severe prison sentence. There's also incredible numbers of women that never get justice. Awful situation. It is, maybe I was a little hasty but it just sticks in the craw that a young professionals life has been in tatters due to these allegations. I wonder if during the case these women were actually found to be lying beyond all reasonable doubt or it was just lack of evidence or whatever. Like I said before, having seen this kind of case first hand and witnessing the accuser countless times bragging about it in public it probably amplifies my opinion on the subject Definitely. all of us are impacted heavily by things we've witnessed and lived through. I've had to go through a couple of murder cases in my life, one as a witness and the other a friend, and thankfully justice (maximum sentence) was served on both occasions. Had it not been, god knows the chaos that would have been unleashed. One person's word against another in a bedroom is just a nightmare for prosecutors I imagine.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Jul 14, 2023 18:32:18 GMT
It is, maybe I was a little hasty but it just sticks in the craw that a young professionals life has been in tatters due to these allegations. I wonder if during the case these women were actually found to be lying beyond all reasonable doubt or it was just lack of evidence or whatever. Like I said before, having seen this kind of case first hand and witnessing the accuser countless times bragging about it in public it probably amplifies my opinion on the subject Definitely. all of us are impacted heavily by things we've witnessed and lived through. I've had to go through a couple of murder cases in my life, one as a witness and the other a friend, and thankfully justice (maximum sentence) was served on both occasions. Had it not been, god knows the chaos that would have been unleashed. One person's word against another in a bedroom is just a nightmare for prosecutors I imagine. Absolutely
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Post by knype on Jul 14, 2023 19:52:23 GMT
To me he shouldn't have been named until the verdict was reached. The guys career has been ruined
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Jul 14, 2023 19:58:26 GMT
To me he shouldn't have been named until the verdict was reached. The guys career has been ruined Hopefully not
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Post by foster on Jul 14, 2023 20:20:00 GMT
To me he shouldn't have been named until the verdict was reached. The guys career has been ruined Impossible once the media circus begins. You've seen how just the past week has been regarding Edwards, with everyone clamouring to find out who the 'presenter' is. A high profile footballer accused of multiple rape charges will never manage to be kept under wraps for long.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2023 20:54:10 GMT
As Keith Lard once said....
There's no smoke without fire.
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Post by willieeetmiout on Jul 14, 2023 21:20:12 GMT
I didn't particularly follow the case that much but as a high profile footballer it was unavailable A decision to charge and thus name would be based on Police Evidence and a review by CPS on probability of conviction so as Prestwick says questions to answer there The conviction rate to complaint is ludicrously low as Cville says because is a notoriously difficult case to prove without witnesses and he said she said and consent There is no easy solution. My previous comment on this was that I was conflicted on naming but reluctantly on balance favoured the status quo How many women came forward against Mendy and how many were proven? I don’t think anybody should be named based on the stats of non conviction rate. I agree with Cville and yourself in that the figure of 99% is so high as it’s a difficult charge to prove but that just adds to the need to change in my opinion. I have first hand experience of what this kind of accusation can do to a young man’s life. I dread to think what it’s like as someone in the public spotlight. Don't forget the 99% figure is massively skewed. It isn't the case that someone reports a rape, it goes to trial and 99% are acquitted. You have to add in there will be reports of rape where there is just no evidence it happened. Remember the recent case in Hanley where a drunken female reported she had been raped and it turned out to be fantasy. That is in the 99%. There will be reports of rape where the complainant then retracts and says it didn't happen. There will be reports of rape where the complainant says it did happen but they don't want to go to Court. There might be cases where someone is charged with 10 rapes, a historic case maybe where the offending is family related and lasts a number of years. They might plead to 5 which is acceptable to the prosecution and so they don't seek to try the other 5. Those other 5 end up in the 99%. There might be cases where a rape is reported but it in fact turns out to be a sexual assault for example or the person involved pleads a sexual assault and that is accepted by the CPS so the initial rape falls into the 99%. There are most certainly cases where the matter is recorded on initial complaint as being a rape but it is recorded incorrectly from the outset and should have been recorded as a sexual assault.
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Post by cvillestokie on Jul 14, 2023 21:39:07 GMT
How many women came forward against Mendy and how many were proven? I don’t think anybody should be named based on the stats of non conviction rate. I agree with Cville and yourself in that the figure of 99% is so high as it’s a difficult charge to prove but that just adds to the need to change in my opinion. I have first hand experience of what this kind of accusation can do to a young man’s life. I dread to think what it’s like as someone in the public spotlight. Don't forget the 99% figure is massively skewed. It isn't the case that someone reports a rape, it goes to trial and 99% are acquitted. You have to add in there will be reports of rape where there is just no evidence it happened. Remember the recent case in Hanley where a drunken female reported she had been raped and it turned out to be fantasy. That is in the 99%. There will be reports of rape where the complainant then retracts and says it didn't happen. There will be reports of rape where the complainant says it did happen but they don't want to go to Court. There might be cases where someone is charged with 10 rapes, a historic case maybe where the offending is family related and lasts a number of years. They might plead to 5 which is acceptable to the prosecution and so they don't seek to try the other 5. Those other 5 end up in the 99%. There might be cases where a rape is reported but it in fact turns out to be a sexual assault for example or the person involved pleads a sexual assault and that is accepted by the CPS so the initial rape falls into the 99%. There are most certainly cases where the matter is recorded on initial complaint as being a rape but it is recorded incorrectly from the outset and should have been recorded as a sexual assault. This is all true. There are also many, many cases of rape that occur and are never reported. It’s an incredibly difficult thing to prove. A lot of studies have shown that rape convictions are generally harder to obtain than other crimes. This article is older and it may have gone back up: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48095118.ampBut the drop in rape prosecutions seems kind of alarming. Probably more driven by cuts to public funding and internal goals for % conviction rates than people suddenly deciding not to be a rapist piece of scum that year (I’m not saying that applies to Mendy, more that it seems less likely that the general population just stops committing certain acts all of a sudden). As for Mendy, he’s never been proven guilty, so he’ll probably be back on the pitch soon enough. His life’s been thrown under a bus though.
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Post by shakermaker on Jul 14, 2023 23:04:59 GMT
To me he shouldn't have been named until the verdict was reached. The guys career has been ruined He’s a top-notch full back, and being cleared of all charges means he can legitimately play football without feminists spitting venom about it. He’ll find a club. Still under contract with City isn’t he?
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Post by foster on Jul 15, 2023 5:18:15 GMT
To me he shouldn't have been named until the verdict was reached. The guys career has been ruined He’s a top-notch full back, and being cleared of all charges means he can legitimately play football without feminists spitting venom about it. He’ll find a club. Still under contract with City isn’t he? I think I read somewhere that his contract ended a month or so ago. No doubt that if he does return to football he won't want to be doing it here. He might return to France or go far afield for a couple of years.
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Post by AlbertTatlock on Jul 15, 2023 14:36:15 GMT
Innocent until proven guilty and on this occasion found not guilty of ALL charges. Sign him up Stoke Gouranga.
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