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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Aug 16, 2021 11:07:52 GMT
I meant close the shores, pop the dingies mid channel for all I care but stop letting the scrounging spineless free loading potential terrorists in you seem like a real piece of shit if I could be so bold........ He's pro Trump Anti-vax amongst other stuff. |
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Post by noustie on Aug 16, 2021 11:49:08 GMT
Unsurprisingly we’ve been here before in history. I hadn’t realised Britain’s involvement in Afghanistan during the 19th Century until read the Flashman novels. During what was called the 'Great Game', essentially global political chess/ dick measuring competition, we invaded in 1839 to avoid the Russians invading India from the north and deposed the tribal leader we’d previously dealt with because although he’d kept it stable for a couple of decades he was getting too friendly with the Russians. Marched in fairly easily and from there instilled a puppet government from the family of the formally disposed leader and had our demands readily agreed but pretty much ignored that the surrounding tribes didn’t much like the new guy. Locals and outside tribes pissed off at us being there came together to chuck us back out to the point the entire army, entourage and any locals in support were massacred during the retreat with only one survivor initially found to tell the tale. Second time around shat ourselves Russia had been in touch with them again and again marched in fairly easily, had our demands met by a puppet that couldn’t carry them out and nearly fucked up again as the tribes came together. However, this time following a famous military victory/ march the British stuck a complete bastard in charge locally on the sole proviso he didn’t let the Russians through whilst we left him to get on with it including revenge on local traitors/ crushed rival tribes. Nothing’s really changed here in that all the US seem to have asked for is they can get out without being blown up in exchange for allowing them another crack at government whilst they promise to cross their hearts that they won’t fraternise with Al-Qaeda or any of their bastard offspring in return. The Afghan army they left in place has been totally shafted and how is a band of locals expected to repel the Taliban when the nation with 40% of the world military spending struggled to do it for 20 years and then just fucks off and leaves with loads of the infrastructure their tactics depends. www.thoughtco.com/the-first-anglo-afghan-war-195101www.thoughtco.com/britains-second-war-in-afghanistan-1773763en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdur_Rahman_KhanI think we had a similar issue in Iraq as well with "us" trying to impose a puppet government on people which have varying views, opinions and often historical tensions across their country. Out of all this my biggest issue is that we've basically left the Afghan Army, Air Force and Police to it pretty much overnight. We've spent billions training and equipping them for what purpose? It was like we got bored and took our ball home. I agree a slow draw down was needed but why couldn't we continue with flying operations? Could be havering shite but think the Russians discovered air support weren't hugely affective in the mountains as a tactic but at least it would have given the vague pretence we still gave a shit if we blew some shit up every now and again. Instead at the moment it pretty much just seems like we've fucked off and left them to it. There's already talk of speaking to them about trade deals whilst the paint on women beauty adverts isn't even dry for fuck sake! |
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Post by prestwichpotter on Aug 16, 2021 11:58:42 GMT
“It’s not down to us” We invaded their country, have you been in a coma for 20 years? When you say " their" country, who are 'they'.....the Taliban or other peaceful Afghans? It has also got something to do with barbaric militant Islam Taliban Tells CNN’s Clarissa Ward ‘Islamic Law Will Come Not Just To Afghanistan, But All Over The World’ Taliban Tells CNN’s Clarissa Ward ‘Islamic Law Will Come Not Just To Afghanistan, But All Over The World’ www.forbes.com/sites/markjoyella/2021/08/15/taliban-tells-cnns-clarissa-ward-islamic-law-will-come-not-just-to-afghanistan-but-all-over-the-world/CNN was able to speak to women inside the Taliban’s compound, who told Ward women and girls would definitely not have access to schools once the Taliban’s seizure of the country was complete. “Absolutely not – girls don’t go to school,” one woman told Ward in an off-camera interview. “The Taliban says it’s bad.” the Revolutionary Association of the Women of Afghanistan (RAWA) were highly critical of the invasion in 2001, they believed that the factional groups brought about by the conflict would treat women as badly as the regime at the time, even after the Taliban were "defeated" (the reality was they were hiding in the mountains and across the border) away from big cities like Kabul under Karzai's government women were being treated as badly as they were under the Taliban. And I think therein lies the difference, we see Kabul in all it's metropolitan glory where woman are being empowered but not necessarily other areas where the same cannot be said. Everything you post is of course true, but let's not kid ourselves that we invaded Afghanistan to help empower women, it was purely payback for 9/11 that drove it........ |
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Aug 16, 2021 12:13:55 GMT
Just when you thought this disaster couldn't get any worse...
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Aug 16, 2021 12:16:51 GMT
When you say " their" country, who are 'they'.....the Taliban or other peaceful Afghans? It has also got something to do with barbaric militant Islam Taliban Tells CNN’s Clarissa Ward ‘Islamic Law Will Come Not Just To Afghanistan, But All Over The World’ Taliban Tells CNN’s Clarissa Ward ‘Islamic Law Will Come Not Just To Afghanistan, But All Over The World’ www.forbes.com/sites/markjoyella/2021/08/15/taliban-tells-cnns-clarissa-ward-islamic-law-will-come-not-just-to-afghanistan-but-all-over-the-world/CNN was able to speak to women inside the Taliban’s compound, who told Ward women and girls would definitely not have access to schools once the Taliban’s seizure of the country was complete. “Absolutely not – girls don’t go to school,” one woman told Ward in an off-camera interview. “The Taliban says it’s bad.” the Revolutionary Association of the Women of Afghanistan (RAWA) were highly critical of the invasion in 2001, they believed that the factional groups brought about by the conflict would treat women as badly as the regime at the time, even after the Taliban were "defeated" (the reality was they were hiding in the mountains and across the border) away from big cities like Kabul under Karzai's government women were being treated as badly as they were under the Taliban. And I think therein lies the difference, we see Kabul in all it's metropolitan glory where woman are being empowered but not necessarily other areas where the same cannot be said. Everything you post is of course true, but let's not kid ourselves that we invaded Afghanistan to help empower women, it was purely payback for 9/11 that drove it........ I don't think that there is an ideal solution, none of us would claim that. I don't believe in imposing my will on anyone, to have freedom to express yourself should be fundamental to humanity... But I think it is possible to say that some aspects of some cultures/ regimes/ belief systems are better than others. Obviously subjective but I believe that women probably generally fare "better" in a non Muslim environment than a Muslim one...the comparison you give is between two Muslim ones. |
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Post by prestwichpotter on Aug 16, 2021 12:19:17 GMT
Just when you thought this disaster couldn't get any worse... China could be one of the countries to try and get some semblance of normality out of this utter shit show. Why are we so quick to rule out any dialogue with China whilst openly dealing with the Saudis who have armed and funded the Taliban as well as other questionable groups/regimes? |
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Post by heworksardtho on Aug 16, 2021 12:26:19 GMT
We need to send in John Rambo
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Aug 16, 2021 12:27:20 GMT
Just when you thought this disaster couldn't get any worse... China could be one of the countries to try and get some semblance of normality out of this utter shit show. Why are we so quick to rule out any dialogue with China whilst openly dealing with the Saudis who have armed and funded the Taliban as well as other questionable regimes? Because they are a dictatorship run by some of the most distasteful, distrustful and corrupt political figures of our lifetime? Because they have one of the worst human rights records in the world? Because the CCP is literally conducting mass genocides, murdering women and children amongst countless innocent young man? Because they lied about both the causes, death toll and subsequent investigation of the most destructive pandemic of our lifetime? Because they arrest journalists or opponents of the CCP? I know why you're defending China but I'd suggest it's not a hill you want to die on. Particularly if you've got any ethical standards. The Saudis aren't much better but let's not pretend relying on China to be good is a remotely feasible alternative. |
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Post by followyoudown on Aug 16, 2021 12:36:54 GMT
China could be one of the countries to try and get some semblance of normality out of this utter shit show. Why are we so quick to rule out any dialogue with China whilst openly dealing with the Saudis who have armed and funded the Taliban as well as other questionable regimes? Because they are a dictatorship run by some of the most distasteful, distrustful and corrupt political figures of our lifetime? Because they have one of the worst human rights records in the world? Because the CCP is literally conducting mass genocides, murdering women and children amongst countless innocent young man? Because they lied about both the causes, death toll and subsequent investigation of the most destructive pandemic of our lifetime? Because they arrest journalists or opponents of the CCP? I know why you're defending China but I'd suggest it's not a hill you want to die on. Particularly if you've got any ethical standards. The Saudis aren't much better but let's not pretend relying on China to be good is a remotely feasible alternative. I had to read the China might be able to sort out the problems post twice after picking my jaw off the floor the first time..... Irrespective of the problems of dealing with China that you list, the problem with Afghanistan is in some senses its not a real country, the provences all have their own warlords / rulers who they are loyal too so I don't know if the ultimate solution is just to break the country up on these lines and have some sort of loose USSR or UK type alliance. Whatever this will not be the end of the fighting what was the northern alliance will now regroup and will start attacking the Taliban. |
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Post by wagsastokie on Aug 16, 2021 12:50:05 GMT
Just when you thought this disaster couldn't get any worse... Well there’s a shock Obviously the right kind of Muslim |
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Post by sticky on Aug 16, 2021 12:54:30 GMT
It really is a complete mess, And wouldn’t even know where to start to fix it. It does seem though that women get treated like shit in lots of Islamic country’s, but any mention of it and your shot down as an islamaphobic racist. It’s not really helpful and gets us nowhere closer to having an open debate about it.
All that nonsense with the school teacher in hiding for eg, it just shouldn’t be happening. and leaves people with a negative view of islam and lumping all Muslims in 1 pot of being incompatible to get on and coexist in a western democracy... (Which is of course nonsense)
Our foreign policy is a joke and if we bomb the shit out of other country’s, we can’t then be up in arms at migrants wanting to come over. Some of the things said about migrants crossing the channel I’d certainly hope aren’t a true reflection of people’s actual thoughts otherwise we really are turning into a inhumane heartless country.
The worlds a mess but imo, but if religion was gone (or at least modernised to reflect today’s world) the world but be a much nicer place.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Aug 16, 2021 13:03:18 GMT
China could be one of the countries to try and get some semblance of normality out of this utter shit show. Why are we so quick to rule out any dialogue with China whilst openly dealing with the Saudis who have armed and funded the Taliban as well as other questionable regimes? Because they are a dictatorship run by some of the most distasteful, distrustful and corrupt political figures of our lifetime? Because they have one of the worst human rights records in the world? Because the CCP is literally conducting mass genocides, murdering women and children amongst countless innocent young man? Because they lied about both the causes, death toll and subsequent investigation of the most destructive pandemic of our lifetime? Because they arrest journalists or opponents of the CCP? I know why you're defending China but I'd suggest it's not a hill you want to die on. Particularly if you've got any ethical standards. The Saudis aren't much better but let's not pretend relying on China to be good is a remotely feasible alternative. I'm not defending China so not really sure what you know. I've made it clear in previous posts that in a complicated world countries like Iran, China and Russia can help broker a situation that is more tolerable than the current one, I'm not sure what is controversial about that? Whilst the west believe themselves to be the arbitrators of the world, parts of the Middle East, Africa and Latin America don't share the same viewpoint. Only two years ago we were wining and dining the Chinese regime, on our hands and knees begging them for a larger slice of their economic pie, now all of a sudden they're a pariah state. I'm not defending China's human rights record but let's cut the blatant hypocrisy eh? |
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Post by prestwichpotter on Aug 16, 2021 13:07:33 GMT
Because they are a dictatorship run by some of the most distasteful, distrustful and corrupt political figures of our lifetime? Because they have one of the worst human rights records in the world? Because the CCP is literally conducting mass genocides, murdering women and children amongst countless innocent young man? Because they lied about both the causes, death toll and subsequent investigation of the most destructive pandemic of our lifetime? Because they arrest journalists or opponents of the CCP? I know why you're defending China but I'd suggest it's not a hill you want to die on. Particularly if you've got any ethical standards. The Saudis aren't much better but let's not pretend relying on China to be good is a remotely feasible alternative. I had to read the China might be able to sort out the problems post twice after picking my jaw off the floor the first time..... Irrespective of the problems of dealing with China that you list, the problem with Afghanistan is in some senses its not a real country, the provences all have their own warlords / rulers who they are loyal too so I don't know if the ultimate solution is just to break the country up on these lines and have some sort of loose USSR or UK type alliance. Whatever this will not be the end of the fighting what was the northern alliance will now regroup and will start attacking the Taliban. If you ask regular Afghan citizens whether they see a more prosperous future with economic and political ties to China who will invest billions in their infrastructure, or with continued ties to the west the answers might not be the ones we would like. That's the reality of the situation human rights aside.......... |
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Post by xchpotter on Aug 16, 2021 13:31:05 GMT
China could be one of the countries to try and get some semblance of normality out of this utter shit show. Why are we so quick to rule out any dialogue with China whilst openly dealing with the Saudis who have armed and funded the Taliban as well as other questionable regimes? Because they are a dictatorship run by some of the most distasteful, distrustful and corrupt political figures of our lifetime? Because they have one of the worst human rights records in the world? Because the CCP is literally conducting mass genocides, murdering women and children amongst countless innocent young man? Because they lied about both the causes, death toll and subsequent investigation of the most destructive pandemic of our lifetime? Because they arrest journalists or opponents of the CCP? I know why you're defending China but I'd suggest it's not a hill you want to die on. Particularly if you've got any ethical standards. The Saudis aren't much better but let's not pretend relying on China to be good is a remotely feasible alternative. Sounds like a match made in heaven. I don't want to see another drop of British blood spilled over there. I'm sure the Taliban, Chinese and the Muslim world can create whatever they want which won't be to everyone's taste, but let them crack on. |
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Post by zerps on Aug 16, 2021 14:08:36 GMT
The taliban are on twitter but Trump is banned 😂
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Post by yyy on Aug 16, 2021 14:18:38 GMT
Its all happening now... The taliban have said they will form a new government, labour have replied saying its too short notice to send out candidates
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Post by yyy on Aug 16, 2021 14:20:20 GMT
you seem like a real piece of shit if I could be so bold........ He's pro Trump Anti-vax amongst other stuff. I'm not anti vac hudd, I'm just not having one. I'm all for you having one |
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Post by superjw on Aug 16, 2021 15:02:39 GMT
Those videos doing the rounds on the news of people trying to get on that US military plane whilst on the taxi way are deeply sad.
There's another video showing possibly the same aircraft after take off and what looks to be people falling from the underside.
Heartbreaking for those people
What a disaster this is
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Post by Boothen on Aug 16, 2021 15:15:03 GMT
So they're happy to risk death by hanging on the side of an aeroplane, but they're not willing to stand and fight for their country?
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Post by Northy on Aug 16, 2021 15:25:24 GMT
The Taliban are shooting people trying to climb over the wall to get into the airport, utter scum, they should all be drowned in pigs blood.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Aug 16, 2021 15:25:39 GMT
So they're happy to risk death by hanging on the side of an aeroplane, but they're not willing to stand and fight for their country? Not sure they're happy about either......... |
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Post by Boothen on Aug 16, 2021 15:29:59 GMT
The Taliban are shooting people trying to climb over the wall to get into the airport, utter scum, they should all be drowned in pigs blood. Not the Taliban, not those chaps who only yesterday claimed they'd changed and were now of a more moderate bent, a sort of Talibanlite if you will? Surely not. |
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Post by Davef on Aug 16, 2021 15:32:11 GMT
I see Jacinda Adhern has pleaded with the Taliban to uphold human rights.
Yeah, because they're really interest in what the female of the species have to say aren't they?
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Post by partickpotter on Aug 16, 2021 15:40:36 GMT
Apparently the Taliban love cricket so Afghanistan will continue to play international cricket. I imagine that love is limited to the men’s game. But, in the present moment, every little helps. |
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Post by prestwichpotter on Aug 16, 2021 15:42:12 GMT
Apparently the Taliban love cricket so Afghanistan will continue to play international cricket. I imagine that love is limited to the men’s game. But, in the present moment, every little helps. Who doesn't love the beautiful game? |
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Post by heworksardtho on Aug 16, 2021 16:09:32 GMT
Apparently the Taliban love cricket so Afghanistan will continue to play international cricket. I imagine that love is limited to the men’s game. But, in the present moment, every little helps. Who doesn't love the beautiful game? Whose bothered |
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Post by prestwichpotter on Aug 16, 2021 16:11:26 GMT
Who doesn't love the beautiful game? Whose bothered You judging by the amount of times you reply about a sport you don't like..... |
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Post by heworksardtho on Aug 16, 2021 16:24:08 GMT
You judging by the amount of times you reply about a sport you don't like..... Ye well that’s my opinion a bit like yours regarding China , brilliant that one |
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Post by heworksardtho on Aug 16, 2021 16:28:36 GMT
Its all happening now... The taliban have said they will form a new government, labour have replied saying its too short notice to send out candidates The Afghan army is 300,000 strong and the yanks alone in the last 15 years have spent £64 billion on the belief they can stand against the Taliban Ragheads , but instead they have collapsed like a house made of jelly |
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Post by prestwichpotter on Aug 16, 2021 16:28:56 GMT
You judging by the amount of times you reply about a sport you don't like..... Ye well that’s my opinion a bit like yours regarding China , brilliant that one What bit of my opinion on China did you disagree with, fire away....... |
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