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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 12, 2021 9:39:42 GMT
I know it's not just as easy as scoring a goal within 90 minutes, but you have to wonder why there wasn't a push to get the job done over the 90 minutes, especially when you consider our history in major tournaments at the most important stages. The longer you let the game run on, the more tense and difficult it gets for players. Add the absolute pressure cooker of penalties on top of that and I'm not surprised so many fluffed their lines. Easy to say in hindsight, but is it not worth taking that risk in normal or extra time, rather than risk the lottery of penalties? We ended up playing for penalties which is mental when you consider it, really. I feel let down by the fact we limped to defeat and appeared to not have the will to go for it. I'd still be gutted if we lost in 90mins but it's worse seeing us defend for at least 90mins and then fluff our pens. How many of us said go for it no fear if they beat us so be it but don't hand it to them with hardly a wimper. I can handle losing but not capitulation. You're right, but I wonder if we'd won that penalty shoot-out how many of us would still be saying he was way too cautious and should've gone for it earlier!
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Post by PotteringThrough on Jul 12, 2021 9:40:29 GMT
I think we lost due to poor game management. Played really well for half an hour but allowed Italy to push us deeper and deeper until we could not find a way out. Second half we were twenty yards too deep and needed to be tighter on their players in a high press. We were forced to defend very deep. Mr Southgate should have brought fresh legs on and moved us up the pitch. I t was a little better in extra time when Chiesa was forced off but the subs and timing was bizarre. All in all the best team won and produced a master class of movement and one touch passing. I don’t disagree and I don’t think it was too dissimilar from the Croatia game. The changes made didn’t do enough to wrestle back control at the key times. Good teams and good managers learn from defeat - we’ve gone 1 step further this time which is an achievement, let’s go 1 step again next time - these lads are good enough to do it.
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Post by moon on Jul 12, 2021 9:48:36 GMT
I feel let down by the fact we limped to defeat and appeared to not have the will to go for it. I'd still be gutted if we lost in 90mins but it's worse seeing us defend for at least 90mins and then fluff our pens. How many of us said go for it no fear if they beat us so be it but don't hand it to them with hardly a wimper. I can handle losing but not capitulation. You're right, but I wonder if we'd won that penalty shoot-out how many of us would still be saying he was way too cautious and should've gone for it earlier! Penalties is a lottery, whether we won or lost on penalties it doesn't change the fact that we let Italy have all of the ball due to our tactical approach and we played far too deep with no outlet. We weren't unlucky last night, we just got the tactics wrong, we had enough quality in the squad to beat the Italians without going to extra time. The early goal meant we sat back all game but it didn't have to be like that, we didn't play to our strengths.
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Post by numpty40 on Jul 12, 2021 9:51:45 GMT
A magnificent effort from Gareth and the lads. I'm actually going against the general consensus here and say I don't think Southgate was overly negative. Yes we'd all like to see Grealish, Foden, Sancho/Sako start but that Italian team would have pissed through that midfield. The outstanding performers for last night were Rice and Phillips. He managed the game pretty welland it came down to fine margins. Yes, we're always wiser with hindsight but England have had a super tournament and will be even better for this experience.
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Post by franklin on Jul 12, 2021 9:58:04 GMT
I feel let down by the fact we limped to defeat and appeared to not have the will to go for it. I'd still be gutted if we lost in 90mins but it's worse seeing us defend for at least 90mins and then fluff our pens. How many of us said go for it no fear if they beat us so be it but don't hand it to them with hardly a wimper. I can handle losing but not capitulation. You're right, but I wonder if we'd won that penalty shoot-out how many of us would still be saying he was way too cautious and should've gone for it earlier! We'll never know the answer to that question mate so we'll have to suck it up until the next tournament and with the additional countries it'll be way harder and we start all over again hoping for the best expecting the worst.
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Post by Northy on Jul 12, 2021 10:12:07 GMT
Don't want to bring politics into football, but isn't it lovely to see how many European friends we have, even though half of them move to live and work in Britain. Thank fck we left the e.u, second biggest contributors to third world european countries 'Half of them move to live and work in Britain' its no great surpise they think we are a bunch of cunts is it ? My brother is married to an Italian lady, apparently he was nice and calm last night but her Mediterranean passion, with a few choice words were flowing
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Post by musik on Jul 12, 2021 10:16:46 GMT
Hasse Backe, former assisting coach at Man City and the Mexico National team, said here that Rashford simply got so close to the ball in the end that it was impossible to hit it hard. He looked very nervous, just like Saka. It took ages before Rashford even started his move to the ball. He didn’t need to hit it hard. Just get it on target. Absolutely. But he was running out of options.
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Post by telfordstokie on Jul 12, 2021 10:26:08 GMT
A magnificent effort from Gareth and the lads. I'm actually going against the general consensus here and say I don't think Southgate was overly negative. Yes we'd all like to see Grealish, Foden, Sancho/Sako start but that Italian team would have pissed through that midfield. The outstanding performers for last night were Rice and Phillips. He managed the game pretty welland it came down to fine margins. Yes, we're always wiser with hindsight but England have had a super tournament and will be even better for this experience. Agree. Woke up absolutely devastated and feeling worse than last night but there are definite reasons for optimism. We’ve overcome two massive mental hurdles this year in beating Germany and actually winning a semi-final. I personally thought we were excellent in the first half, just got ground down by a strong and clever Italy side as the match went on. Rice and Phillips are a brilliant partnership who have got better each game and we’ve got two very special players in Foden and Bellingham who didn’t get much of a look in this tournament but are going to play a big part in the next few years. Roll on Qatar, we’ve got a genuine chance.
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Post by spitthedog on Jul 12, 2021 10:34:47 GMT
I know it's not just as easy as scoring a goal within 90 minutes, but you have to wonder why there wasn't a push to get the job done over the 90 minutes, especially when you consider our history in major tournaments at the most important stages. The longer you let the game run on, the more tense and difficult it gets for players. Add the absolute pressure cooker of penalties on top of that and I'm not surprised so many fluffed their lines. Easy to say in hindsight, but is it not worth taking that risk in normal or extra time, rather than risk the lottery of penalties? We ended up playing for penalties which is mental when you consider it, really. I feel let down by the fact we limped to defeat and appeared to not have the will to go for it. I'd still be gutted if we lost in 90mins but it's worse seeing us defend for at least 90mins and then fluff our pens. How many of us said go for it no fear if they beat us so be it but don't hand it to them with hardly a wimper. I can handle losing but not capitulation. I think you are underestimating Italy tbh. A very good team and very difficult to play against. Masters at keeping possession and working the opposition. 34 games unbeaten give you a clue. We nullified that very well for the first half, they couldn't get through us and resorted to long shots, but it became increasingly difficult as the game went on as they became more aggressive tactically. You cant just boss teams like this. We did that initially with the wing backs but they readjusted their tactics accordingly and snuffed it out. They are a brilliant team, very disciplined, talented players and very well managed. Many positives for England though. No shame to lose out marginally against Italy.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2021 10:37:11 GMT
I'm more gutted than usual.
Tbh, in past tournaments we weren't good enough.
But that was in our hands, and we just didn't do enough. We didn't attack, we didn't go for it.
We won't get a better chance than that. No way.
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Post by zerps on Jul 12, 2021 10:39:49 GMT
I know it's not just as easy as scoring a goal within 90 minutes, but you have to wonder why there wasn't a push to get the job done over the 90 minutes, especially when you consider our history in major tournaments at the most important stages. The longer you let the game run on, the more tense and difficult it gets for players. Add the absolute pressure cooker of penalties on top of that and I'm not surprised so many fluffed their lines. Easy to say in hindsight, but is it not worth taking that risk in normal or extra time, rather than risk the lottery of penalties? We ended up playing for penalties which is mental when you consider it, really. I feel let down by the fact we limped to defeat and appeared to not have the will to go for it. I'd still be gutted if we lost in 90mins but it's worse seeing us defend for at least 90mins and then fluff our pens. How many of us said go for it no fear if they beat us so be it but don't hand it to them with hardly a wimper. I can handle losing but not capitulation. You say that but we were winning at half time
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Post by salopstick on Jul 12, 2021 10:50:35 GMT
I feel let down by the fact we limped to defeat and appeared to not have the will to go for it. I'd still be gutted if we lost in 90mins but it's worse seeing us defend for at least 90mins and then fluff our pens. How many of us said go for it no fear if they beat us so be it but don't hand it to them with hardly a wimper. I can handle losing but not capitulation. You say that but we were winning at half time We got lucky with a great early goal but out game plan after that goal had 0-0 all over it. Most of the country knew what was going to happen
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Post by salopstick on Jul 12, 2021 10:53:53 GMT
I'm more gutted than usual. Tbh, in past tournaments we weren't good enough. But that was in our hands, and we just didn't do enough. We didn't attack, we didn't go for it. We won't get a better chance than that. No way. How many times have we gone out of a tournament when we’ve really gone for it. None for a very long time Croatia no lessons learned. Unforgivable
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Post by zerps on Jul 12, 2021 10:55:47 GMT
You say that but we were winning at half time We got lucky with a great early goal but out game plan after that goal had 0-0 all over it. Most of the country knew what was going to happen 0-0 would have worked as we were 1-0 up We just couldn’t hold on to it
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Post by franklin on Jul 12, 2021 10:56:41 GMT
I feel let down by the fact we limped to defeat and appeared to not have the will to go for it. I'd still be gutted if we lost in 90mins but it's worse seeing us defend for at least 90mins and then fluff our pens. How many of us said go for it no fear if they beat us so be it but don't hand it to them with hardly a wimper. I can handle losing but not capitulation. You say that but we were winning at half time Come on mate it was attack V defence for most of the game with the odd "quick break" to keep our hopes up.
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Post by salopstick on Jul 12, 2021 10:58:36 GMT
We got lucky with a great early goal but out game plan after that goal had 0-0 all over it. Most of the country knew what was going to happen 0-0 would have worked as we were 1-0 up We just couldn’t hold on to it You hold on to it by getting the ball in the opposite half as much as possible. Not pretty. Against a more attacking Spanish or French we’d have been mullered. Italy are the masters at that type of game
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Post by zerps on Jul 12, 2021 11:01:09 GMT
0-0 would have worked as we were 1-0 up We just couldn’t hold on to it You hold on to it by getting the ball in the opposite half as much as possible. Not pretty. Against a more attacking Spanish or French we’d have been mullered. Italy are the masters at that type of game I can’t blame Gareth for wanting to hold on to a lead in a final. We’ve done well at that so far. It just wasn’t meant to be.
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Post by franklin on Jul 12, 2021 11:03:58 GMT
I feel let down by the fact we limped to defeat and appeared to not have the will to go for it. I'd still be gutted if we lost in 90mins but it's worse seeing us defend for at least 90mins and then fluff our pens. How many of us said go for it no fear if they beat us so be it but don't hand it to them with hardly a wimper. I can handle losing but not capitulation. I think you are underestimating Italy tbh. A very good team and very difficult to play against. Masters at keeping possession and working the opposition. 34 games unbeaten give you a clue. We nullified that very well for the first half, they couldn't get through us and resorted to long shots, but it became increasingly difficult as the game went on as they became more aggressive tactically. You cant just boss teams like this. We did that initially with the wing backs but they readjusted their tactics accordingly and snuffed it out. They are a brilliant team, very disciplined, talented players and very well managed. Many positives for England though. No shame to lose out marginally against Italy. If you say so but you've basically just outlined what I've been saying. They changed and we didn't they were aggressive and we were not they went for it and we didn't they made subs and we didn't. Oh and of course they won and we didn't was it 55 passes we made at one point against Denmark they're not the only ones who can pass the ball but they made it tough and we did not change it or cope.
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Post by shane071085 on Jul 12, 2021 11:04:15 GMT
carnt blame southgate are you mad its a final we go a goal up and he sits back on a lead for 90 mins decent manager we would of finished italy off last night
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jul 12, 2021 11:10:03 GMT
It's easy to say a better manager would have got more out of the squad than Southgate and on paper that might be true, but we've had golden generations before under so-called world class managers such as Eriksson and Capello and still come up short. So who's to say Southgate's man management of the current squad hasn't squeezed out an extra 10% just to get us to the final?
It's all ifs, buts and maybes after the event.
And I'd be all for replacing Southgate if a genuinely progressive coach such as Brendan Rodgers was available but who takes over?
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Post by spitthedog on Jul 12, 2021 11:14:06 GMT
I think you are underestimating Italy tbh. A very good team and very difficult to play against. Masters at keeping possession and working the opposition. 34 games unbeaten give you a clue. We nullified that very well for the first half, they couldn't get through us and resorted to long shots, but it became increasingly difficult as the game went on as they became more aggressive tactically. You cant just boss teams like this. We did that initially with the wing backs but they readjusted their tactics accordingly and snuffed it out. They are a brilliant team, very disciplined, talented players and very well managed. Many positives for England though. No shame to lose out marginally against Italy. If you say so but you've basically just outlined what I've been saying. They changed and we didn't they were aggressive and we were not they went for it and we didn't they made subs and we didn't. Oh and of course they won and we didn't was it 55 passes we made at one point against Denmark they're not the only ones who can pass the ball but they made it tough and we did not change it or cope. True, but you are making the assumption that it is just some kind of straight forward thing to change tactics, and even more significantly, to implement that against a team like Italy. They are extremely difficult to play against. They know how to make it difficult for teams, to frustrate them. To say, we were just defending the lead is an over simplification. We could have been better on the ball, that is true, but Italy are great at restricting the options, they completely snuffed Kane and Sterling out of the game. Grealish was restricted when he came on, when he got the ball there are 4 Italians around him, they know their stuff. Italy were way below their best first half, they could have been much better on the ball by their standards, but even below their best they know how to stay in games. Then they improved their game. To me there is absolutely no shame in drawing against Italy in a Final. We didn't really lose the game, we just couldn't find a way to win it, neither could they, and if you don't then its just a toss up at the end. People on here totally underestimating the opposition imo. As if you can just go out and do as you please against this type of team.
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Post by stokie1947 on Jul 12, 2021 11:16:33 GMT
why not make all 10 players take one
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 12, 2021 11:17:06 GMT
I see online dick heads have already started with the racial abuse of Rashford, Sancho and Sako, and I simply despair at footage of innocent Italian fans getting picked off by fucking cowardly idiots whilst coming out of Wembley on the way to the underground. This particular young England team have been excellent in lifting the current mood and representing the country impeccably, they deserve better than these wankers....... I think we need to be very careful here that we don't mistakenly add to a narrative that isn't true, as some of the red tops are starting to report this story too. I can't find any footage of Italian fans being picked off as they left Wembley. What IS out there, is lots of footage of England fans being picked off inside the concourse as they storm the gates without tickets, which people with a separate agenda are now purporting to be the situation you described.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jul 12, 2021 11:24:03 GMT
I see online dick heads have already started with the racial abuse of Rashford, Sancho and Sako, and I simply despair at footage of innocent Italian fans getting picked off by fucking cowardly idiots whilst coming out of Wembley on the way to the underground. This particular young England team have been excellent in lifting the current mood and representing the country impeccably, they deserve better than these wankers....... I think we need to be very careful here that we don't mistakenly add to a narrative that isn't true, as some of the red tops are starting to report this story too. I can't find any footage of Italian fans being picked off as they left Wembley. What IS out there, is lots of footage of England fans being picked off inside the concourse as they storm the gates without tickets, which people with a separate agenda are now purporting to be the situation you described. I've seen the footage of people getting into the stadium without tickets (there are a few Italian's amongst mainly English) that I think you're to, what I would say is even in that scenario what makes a grown man cowardly swing punches as someone runs past and kick someone in the head whilst on the floor? There are accounts on Twitter of Italians being attacked around Wembley and London, like there was with Danes including a family of four in full kits/face paint where the dad was attacked. I'm certainly not a wallflower and used to follow England home and away fairly regularly in the late 90's/early 2000's but honestly these absolute dick heads are just tiring beyond belief. And they're not prejudice in the sense that they will happily kick lumps out of each other as well for supporting the wrong English team. A total embarrassment.....
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Post by partickpotter on Jul 12, 2021 11:26:07 GMT
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Post by franklin on Jul 12, 2021 11:28:31 GMT
If you say so but you've basically just outlined what I've been saying. They changed and we didn't they were aggressive and we were not they went for it and we didn't they made subs and we didn't. Oh and of course they won and we didn't was it 55 passes we made at one point against Denmark they're not the only ones who can pass the ball but they made it tough and we did not change it or cope. True, but you are making the assumption that it is just some kind of straight forward thing to change tactics, and even more significantly, to implement that against a team like Italy. They are extremely difficult to play against. They know how to make it difficult for teams, to frustrate them. To say, we were just defending the lead is an over simplification. We could have been better on the ball, that is true, but Italy are great at restricting the options, they completely snuffed Kane and Sterling out of the game. Grealish was restricted when he came on, when he got the ball there are 4 Italians around him, they know their stuff. Italy were way below their best first half, they could have been much better on the ball by their standards, but even below their best they know how to stay in games. Then they improved their game. To me there is absolutely no shame in drawing against Italy in a Final. We didn't really lose the game, we just couldn't find a way to win it, neither could they, and if you don't then its just a toss up at the end. People on here totally underestimating the opposition imo. As if you can just go out and do as you please against this type of team. So everything you say is difficult to do Italy did which again is what I've been saying they changed we didn't or couldn't. I'm not sure what your argument is but just for clarification we didn't draw we lost.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jul 12, 2021 11:28:50 GMT
I hope his partner locked herself away after England lost. A few beers and a Millwall/England defeat always spells trouble in the Liddle household.......
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Post by spitthedog on Jul 12, 2021 11:37:40 GMT
True, but you are making the assumption that it is just some kind of straight forward thing to change tactics, and even more significantly, to implement that against a team like Italy. They are extremely difficult to play against. They know how to make it difficult for teams, to frustrate them. To say, we were just defending the lead is an over simplification. We could have been better on the ball, that is true, but Italy are great at restricting the options, they completely snuffed Kane and Sterling out of the game. Grealish was restricted when he came on, when he got the ball there are 4 Italians around him, they know their stuff. Italy were way below their best first half, they could have been much better on the ball by their standards, but even below their best they know how to stay in games. Then they improved their game. To me there is absolutely no shame in drawing against Italy in a Final. We didn't really lose the game, we just couldn't find a way to win it, neither could they, and if you don't then its just a toss up at the end. People on here totally underestimating the opposition imo. As if you can just go out and do as you please against this type of team. So everything you say is difficult to do Italy did which again is what I've been saying they changed we didn't or couldn't. I'm not sure what your argument is but just for clarification we didn't draw we lost. Yeah...well....I'm saying that the best team won the tournament and there is no shame in my eyes in finishing 2nd to the best team. Big improvements from England, so well done. Sometimes you have give the winners some credit.
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Post by franklin on Jul 12, 2021 11:37:52 GMT
It's hard to argue with any of that I'm sure during the game posts outlined all his points by numerous people on here.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 12, 2021 11:48:32 GMT
I think we need to be very careful here that we don't mistakenly add to a narrative that isn't true, as some of the red tops are starting to report this story too. I can't find any footage of Italian fans being picked off as they left Wembley. What IS out there, is lots of footage of England fans being picked off inside the concourse as they storm the gates without tickets, which people with a separate agenda are now purporting to be the situation you described. I've seen the footage of people getting into the stadium without tickets (there are a few Italian's amongst mainly English) that I think you're to, what I would say is even in that scenario what makes a grown man cowardly swing punches as someone runs past and kick someone in the head whilst on the floor? There are accounts on Twitter of Italians being attacked around Wembley and London, like there was with Danes including a family of four in full kits/face paint where the dad was attacked. I'm certainly not a wallflower and used to follow England home and away fairly regularly in the late 90's/early 2000's but honestly these absolute dick heads are just tiring beyond belief. And they're not prejudice in the sense that they will happily kick lumps out of each other as well for supporting the wrong English team. A total embarrassment..... Oh I agree, I was just pointing out that the video you suggested was footage of England fans picking off Italian fans after the match isn't what it is purported to be. We don't want revenge attacks on English fans the next time we're in Italy because of footage that has been erroneously posted by people with some separate agenda. Worryingly, it has now crossed over into some of the mainstream media, it wouldn't have been difficult to fact check the video, it's clearly daylight when it was recorded.
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