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Post by robwahlmann on Jul 12, 2021 8:14:07 GMT
A typical 'what if' scenario again for England. Its rare we get rolled over, it always seems to come down to some narrow frustrating margin. It's been a good tournament when all is said and done but you feel we should have just gone for it in Extra Time. Get Sancho and/or Rashford on immediately and get them running at those centre backs who were both on yellow cards. I also belive Jorghino should have walked for that tackle on Grealish.
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Post by Olgrligm on Jul 12, 2021 8:14:43 GMT
I agree. All of the takers were the sign of somebody being too clever for their own good. You also have to question the senior players who didn't step up like Sterling and Henderson. Henderson was taken off to bring sancho and rashford on Right you are. Southgate has also said that he alone picked the penalty takers. Other than that, it was a brilliant post.
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Post by kentpotter on Jul 12, 2021 8:15:08 GMT
To quote George Cowley in The Professionals,
"If you send a boy to do a man's job they'll nick his bike"!
Bad double substitution at the death.
Shame.
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Post by Olgrligm on Jul 12, 2021 8:23:06 GMT
The next step in the evolution of the side has got to be getting a ball player in the middle of the park. I thought Foden was going to be that player but he seems to have morphed into something else. This is something that I can't get my head around and which makes me think I don't understand modern football any more. The squad for this tournament had Sterling, Saka, Sancho, Bellingham, Foden, Grealish, Mount and Rashford who are somehow all the same type of player but with different ability levels. They all play as an attacking midfielder or a wide forward. In olden times, I'm sure that Sterling, Saka, Sancho and Bellingham would all be wingers, Foden, Grealish and Mount would all be midfield playmakers and Rashford would be a centre forward. It's a shame because there was a time in the second half when England were desperate for a cool head who could just retain possession and dictate the play. It's not a player that we seem to produce.
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Post by telfordstokie on Jul 12, 2021 8:32:38 GMT
Those 3 penalties need to be shown again & again, on how not to take a penalty. Rashford’s was inches away from being brilliant - sent an excellent keeper the wrong way with his run up. It’s such fine margins.
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Post by franklin on Jul 12, 2021 8:42:18 GMT
Those 3 penalties need to be shown again & again, on how not to take a penalty. Rashford’s was inches away from being brilliant - sent an excellent keeper the wrong way with his run up. It’s such fine margins. But an inch is as good as a mile mate he missed, row Z or post still missed.
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Post by yyy on Jul 12, 2021 8:51:33 GMT
Don't want to bring politics into football, but isn't it lovely to see how many European friends we have, even though half of them move to live and work in Britain. Thank fck we left the e.u, second biggest contributors to third world european countries
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 12, 2021 8:51:45 GMT
The next step in the evolution of the side has got to be getting a ball player in the middle of the park. I thought Foden was going to be that player but he seems to have morphed into something else. This is something that I can't get my head around and which makes me think I don't understand modern football any more. The squad for this tournament had Sterling, Saka, Sancho, Bellingham, Foden, Grealish, Mount and Rashford who are somehow all the same type of player but with different ability levels. They all play as an attacking midfielder or a wide forward. In olden times, I'm sure that Sterling, Saka, Sancho and Bellingham would all be wingers, Foden, Grealish and Mount would all be midfield playmakers and Rashford would be a centre forward. It's a shame because there was a time in the second half when England were desperate for a cool head who could just retain possession and dictate the play. It's not a player that we seem to produce. Bellingham is an all-action box-to-box midfielder isn’t he? He’s a number 8.
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Post by kidcrewbob on Jul 12, 2021 8:52:10 GMT
A typical 'what if' scenario again for England. Its rare we get rolled over, it always seems to come down to some narrow frustrating margin. It's been a good tournament when all is said and done but you feel we should have just gone for it in Extra Time. Get Sancho and/or Rashford on immediately and get them running at those centre backs who were both on yellow cards. I agree - not many teams “go for it” in extra time and seem to want to settle for pens - which is no way to finish a such a tournament IMHO - 25 mins of Sancho and Rashford would have shaken it up plus they would be warmed-up for pens............woulda, coulda, shoulda........deja vu all over again....!
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Post by franklin on Jul 12, 2021 8:53:04 GMT
The next step in the evolution of the side has got to be getting a ball player in the middle of the park. I thought Foden was going to be that player but he seems to have morphed into something else. This is something that I can't get my head around and which makes me think I don't understand modern football any more. The squad for this tournament had Sterling, Saka, Sancho, Bellingham, Foden, Grealish, Mount and Rashford who are somehow all the same type of player but with different ability levels. They all play as an attacking midfielder or a wide forward. In olden times, I'm sure that Sterling, Saka, Sancho and Bellingham would all be wingers, Foden, Grealish and Mount would all be midfield playmakers and Rashford would be a centre forward. It's a shame because there was a time in the second half when England were desperate for a cool head who could just retain possession and dictate the play. It's not a player that we seem to produce. I think we were too ridgid Italy's players were all over the park, interchangeable with possession our players stay where they are supposed to be. They played us off the park with movement midfield and forwards all over the shop and we couldn't get to grips of them.
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Post by neckender78 on Jul 12, 2021 9:04:04 GMT
Wanted a tournament to give a generation memories and well done to the players they have achieved that. But am fucking sick of glorious failure with England now. I haven't agreed with Southgates negative team selections all through the tournament but have bitten my tongue as results are more important. But when it really mattered his negativity has cost us. He set the team up and couldn't or wouldn't change to get us on the front foot to get the 2nd goal that would of won us the trophy. His continued selection of Saka and lack of game time for Foden was utterly baffling
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Post by telfordstokie on Jul 12, 2021 9:04:39 GMT
Rashford’s was inches away from being brilliant - sent an excellent keeper the wrong way with his run up. It’s such fine margins. But an inch is as good as a mile mate he missed, row Z or post still missed. I know but the point is he stepped up with a clear plan and was so close to executing it - wasn’t a hit and hope job or a lack of bottle so bit unfair for it to be cited as an example of how not to take a penalty.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 12, 2021 9:07:07 GMT
Wanted a tournament to give a generation memories and well done to the players they have achieved that. But am fucking sick of glorious failure with England now. I haven't agreed with Southgates negative team selections all through the tournament but have bitten my tongue as results are more important. But when it really mattered his negativity has cost us. He set the team up and couldn't or wouldn't change to get us on the front foot to get the 2nd goal that would of won us the trophy. His continued selection of Saka and lack of game time for Foden was utterly baffling Saka was largely excellent during the tournament.
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Post by flea79 on Jul 12, 2021 9:10:09 GMT
Same old England! Always looking for new ways too cock it up this time poor management did it!
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Post by Northy on Jul 12, 2021 9:10:22 GMT
Wanted a tournament to give a generation memories and well done to the players they have achieved that. But am fucking sick of glorious failure with England now. I haven't agreed with Southgates negative team selections all through the tournament but have bitten my tongue as results are more important. But when it really mattered his negativity has cost us. He set the team up and couldn't or wouldn't change to get us on the front foot to get the 2nd goal that would of won us the trophy. His continued selection of Saka and lack of game time for Foden was utterly baffling You just new what would happen after watching the 2nd half of ET v Denmark when they only had 10 men and he went to a back 5, fook sake, get some pace on up front as they were so vulnerable
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Post by stokemark on Jul 12, 2021 9:10:30 GMT
Don't want to bring politics into football, but isn't it lovely to see how many European friends we have, even though half of them move to live and work in Britain. Thank fck we left the e.u, second biggest contributors to third world european countries 'Half of them move to live and work in Britain' its no great surpise they think we are a bunch of cunts is it ?
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Post by musik on Jul 12, 2021 9:10:52 GMT
Has Gareth Southgate explained the picked penalty takers in an interview yet?
Normally a team has a plan in advance who will take them, but they are also asked in that moment. If some players unexpectedly yells "mommyyy" then, he's out of the question ....
A few must have done.
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Post by franklin on Jul 12, 2021 9:12:02 GMT
But an inch is as good as a mile mate he missed, row Z or post still missed. I know but the point is he stepped up with a clear plan and was so close to executing it - wasn’t a hit and hope job or a lack of bottle so bit unfair for it to be cited as an example of how not to take a penalty. I understand what your saying but the bottom line is he missed I wouldn't care if he tripped and knocked it in with his arse that's a good penalty. Style over substance last night its not having a go at him it's unfortunately a fact last night.
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Post by dirtygary69 on Jul 12, 2021 9:12:49 GMT
Is it bad that I don't feel that sickened by it? I just don't think we turned up at all, bar the opening minutes. As soon as they equalised, we looked absolutely empty and you knew we'd lose on penalties as any confidence we might have had, had disappeared. It wasn't like a Euro 96 where we had chances to win the game and you were off your seat. It was a dull, lifeless affair. The defensive side was good again and I'm not saying anyone was particularly bad, it was just lacking in energy.
Unfortunately, it was just another very England performance. Much like Croatia in the WC semi, we just seem to have difficulty overcoming that mental hurdle and you have to wonder if we ever will do. Yes, getting to the final was a hurdle we've not got over for 55 years but, even then, we've ultimately won nothing.
Southgate wilted too, sadly. He's got a lot right this tournament so it feels a bit wrong to have a go after the final but that was far too conservative when you consider who we have at our disposal and the fact we were hardly up against one of the great sides. We could have won that with the right selections.
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Post by franklin on Jul 12, 2021 9:16:23 GMT
Is it bad that I don't feel that sickened by it? I just don't think we turned up at all, bar the opening minutes. As soon as they equalised, we looked absolutely empty and you knew we'd lose on penalties as any confidence we might have had, had disappeared. Unfortunately, it was just another very England performance. Much like Croatia in the WC semi, we just seem to have difficulty overcoming that mental hurdle and you have to wonder if we ever will do. Yes, getting to the final was a hurdle we've not got over for 55 years but, even then, we've ultimately won nothing. Southgate wilted too, sadly. He's got a lot right this tournament so it feels a bit wrong to have a go after the final but that was far too conservative when you consider who we have at our disposal and the fact we were hardly up against one of the great sides. We could have won that with the right selections. No mate I feel exactly the same I saw it coming from about 20mins in and at the end it was resignation to the inevitable.
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Post by tcdobinghoff on Jul 12, 2021 9:16:37 GMT
Don't want to bring politics into football, but isn't it lovely to see how many European friends we have, even though half of them move to live and work in Britain. Thank fck we left the e.u, second biggest contributors to third world european countries Don’t then !
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Post by neckender78 on Jul 12, 2021 9:16:52 GMT
Wanted a tournament to give a generation memories and well done to the players they have achieved that. But am fucking sick of glorious failure with England now. I haven't agreed with Southgates negative team selections all through the tournament but have bitten my tongue as results are more important. But when it really mattered his negativity has cost us. He set the team up and couldn't or wouldn't change to get us on the front foot to get the 2nd goal that would of won us the trophy. His continued selection of Saka and lack of game time for Foden was utterly baffling Saka was largely excellent during the tournament. He was and the comment wasn't negative towards Saka. Only my opinion but he is nowhere near the level of Foden in terms of ability, creativity and goal threat
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Post by musik on Jul 12, 2021 9:19:49 GMT
I know but the point is he stepped up with a clear plan and was so close to executing it - wasn’t a hit and hope job or a lack of bottle so bit unfair for it to be cited as an example of how not to take a penalty. I understand what your saying but the bottom line is he missed I wouldn't care if he tripped and knocked it in with his arse that's a good penalty. Style over substance last night its not having a go at him it's unfortunately a fact last night. Hasse Backe, former assisting coach at Man City and the Mexico National team, said here that Rashford simply got so close to the ball in the end that it was impossible to hit it hard. He looked very nervous, just like Saka. It took ages before Rashford even started his move to the ball.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Jul 12, 2021 9:21:00 GMT
This is something that I can't get my head around and which makes me think I don't understand modern football any more. The squad for this tournament had Sterling, Saka, Sancho, Bellingham, Foden, Grealish, Mount and Rashford who are somehow all the same type of player but with different ability levels. They all play as an attacking midfielder or a wide forward. In olden times, I'm sure that Sterling, Saka, Sancho and Bellingham would all be wingers, Foden, Grealish and Mount would all be midfield playmakers and Rashford would be a centre forward. It's a shame because there was a time in the second half when England were desperate for a cool head who could just retain possession and dictate the play. It's not a player that we seem to produce. Bellingham is an all-action box-to-box midfielder isn’t he? He’s a number 8. Yes and he should have come on for Philips after 60 minutes because he was knackered.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 12, 2021 9:22:10 GMT
Saka was largely excellent during the tournament. He was and the comment wasn't negative towards Saka. Only my opinion but he is nowhere near the level of Foden in terms of ability, creativity and goal threat It’s horses for courses though. He was played for his pace and willingness to run at players and to be an outlet in that 3-4-3 system. For me playing Mount over him was a mistake. There’s plenty Southgate can be justifiably criticised for but I’m glad he hasn’t just tried to crowbar our best players in anywhere like previous managers have.
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Post by partickpotter on Jul 12, 2021 9:23:16 GMT
I understand what your saying but the bottom line is he missed I wouldn't care if he tripped and knocked it in with his arse that's a good penalty. Style over substance last night its not having a go at him it's unfortunately a fact last night. Hasse Backe, former assisting coach at Man City and the Mexico National team, said here that Rashford simply got so close to the ball in the end that it was impossible to hit it hard. He looked very nervous, just like Saka. It took ages before Rashford even started his move to the ball. He didn’t need to hit it hard. Just get it on target.
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Post by dirtygary69 on Jul 12, 2021 9:25:53 GMT
Is it bad that I don't feel that sickened by it? I just don't think we turned up at all, bar the opening minutes. As soon as they equalised, we looked absolutely empty and you knew we'd lose on penalties as any confidence we might have had, had disappeared. Unfortunately, it was just another very England performance. Much like Croatia in the WC semi, we just seem to have difficulty overcoming that mental hurdle and you have to wonder if we ever will do. Yes, getting to the final was a hurdle we've not got over for 55 years but, even then, we've ultimately won nothing. Southgate wilted too, sadly. He's got a lot right this tournament so it feels a bit wrong to have a go after the final but that was far too conservative when you consider who we have at our disposal and the fact we were hardly up against one of the great sides. We could have won that with the right selections. No mate I feel exactly the same I saw it coming from about 20mins in and at the end it was resignation to the inevitable. I know it's not just as easy as scoring a goal within 90 minutes, but you have to wonder why there wasn't a push to get the job done over the 90 minutes, especially when you consider our history in major tournaments at the most important stages. The longer you let the game run on, the more tense and difficult it gets for players. Add the absolute pressure cooker of penalties on top of that and I'm not surprised so many fluffed their lines. Easy to say in hindsight, but is it not worth taking that risk in normal or extra time, rather than risk the lottery of penalties? We ended up playing for penalties which is mental when you consider it, really.
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Post by tqstokie on Jul 12, 2021 9:29:45 GMT
I think we lost due to poor game management. Played really well for half an hour but allowed Italy to push us deeper and deeper until we could not find a way out. Second half we were twenty yards too deep and needed to be tighter on their players in a high press. We were forced to defend very deep. Mr Southgate should have brought fresh legs on and moved us up the pitch. I t was a little better in extra time when Chiesa was forced off but the subs and timing was bizarre. All in all the best team won and produced a master class of movement and one touch passing.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 12, 2021 9:35:04 GMT
A typical 'what if' scenario again for England. Its rare we get rolled over, it always seems to come down to some narrow frustrating margin. It's been a good tournament when all is said and done but you feel we should have just gone for it in Extra Time. Get Sancho and/or Rashford on immediately and get them running at those centre backs who were both on yellow cards. The problem England have is that other teams know that you don't have to roll them over, you just have to not lose in 120 minutes. Then you'll probably win on pens. Yes, I think everyone agrees that Southgate was way too cautious all game last night.
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Post by franklin on Jul 12, 2021 9:35:49 GMT
No mate I feel exactly the same I saw it coming from about 20mins in and at the end it was resignation to the inevitable. I know it's not just as easy as scoring a goal within 90 minutes, but you have to wonder why there wasn't a push to get the job done over the 90 minutes, especially when you consider our history in major tournaments at the most important stages. The longer you let the game run on, the more tense and difficult it gets for players. Add the absolute pressure cooker of penalties on top of that and I'm not surprised so many fluffed their lines. Easy to say in hindsight, but is it not worth taking that risk in normal or extra time, rather than risk the lottery of penalties? We ended up playing for penalties which is mental when you consider it, really. I feel let down by the fact we limped to defeat and appeared to not have the will to go for it. I'd still be gutted if we lost in 90mins but it's worse seeing us defend for at least 90mins and then fluff our pens. How many of us said go for it no fear if they beat us so be it but don't hand it to them with hardly a wimper. I can handle losing but not capitulation.
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