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Post by LL Cool Dave on Jul 12, 2021 7:01:52 GMT
Well. I guess the better team won. Which makes it a bit less painful than when we went out to Argentina in 98 or Germany in 96 having played really well. On to Qatar then ..... The better manager won.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 12, 2021 7:02:42 GMT
If anything the penalties were over practiced.. Smart arse pogba rubbish coming on cold. Was just wierd It was all very odd. Were penalty takers selected to get the headline 'Boo the knee racists defeated'? I'm not saying this is what happened. Merely posing the possibility. Echoes of an ill Ronaldo being forced to play for Brazil in the world cup final for sponsorship reasons. Therefore, in a sense, it was out of Southgate's hands. Who knows what machinations go on behind the scenes when money and agendas come into play. I'm just saying it was odd choices, odd circumstances, and odd how it unfolded. Nothing against the lads, but no-one can say we that was our best five choices for that situation. Fucking hell! Is there any aspect of life that you don't think is part of The Matrix!!
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Post by partickpotter on Jul 12, 2021 7:04:56 GMT
I don’t think either was a red, and Chiellini did exactly what he should’ve done in that situation, I don’t think he expected Saka to hit the ground with such force though. If an England player had been in that situation we’d have applauded him for taking one for the team. It was studs up on Grealish but not a stamp, I don’t think he intended to hurt him, and Jack was fine after it anyway. I think it's safe to say that had either of those situations been reversed, the Italian would still be rolling around this morning, and the rest of the side would've been screaming at the ref putting pressure on for a red card..cynical game management, another area we need to improve. Grealish, if fairness, was rolling on the ground in agony for a considerable time.
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Jul 12, 2021 7:05:48 GMT
Let's not forget Pickford. I'm not a fan of his, but he did his job very well in the shoot out, just a pity the outfield players couldn't do theirs.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 12, 2021 7:06:40 GMT
I wouldn't describe Italy as there for the taking on any level, despite agreeing that we needed to be more attacking. Spain attacked them with loads of possession and still lost... They're a good side with a good manager who saw what was happening in the first 20 minutes and changed it. They were the better side thereafter. Southgate's failure was not reacting himself as we got pushed further and further back, with not much outlet in the shape of a Grealish for example. In fairness to Southgate, the change he would have liked to make he couldn’t. That change was to bring on Foden alongside Sako or Sancho and switch to 4-2-3-1 with Foden playing the middle of that forward midfield 3 feeding the runs of his forwards and asking more challenging questions of Italy’s defence. But Foden was injured. And Gareth didn’t really have much idea what to do to change the flow of the game. His substitutions didn’t really achieve much. Sako helped to some degree in changing the formation, but he seemed lost on the pitch. Henderson for Rice was utterly baffling. Grealish for Mount at 65. Attack. Rice often goes off at the point he's run into the ground and was like for like. Henderson was awful, touch of an elephant.
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Post by wagsastokie on Jul 12, 2021 7:09:49 GMT
I think it's safe to say that had either of those situations been reversed, the Italian would still be rolling around this morning, and the rest of the side would've been screaming at the ref putting pressure on for a red card..cynical game management, another area we need to improve. Grealish, if fairness, was rolling on the ground in agony for a considerable time. He usually does then leaps up like a spring lamb
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Jul 12, 2021 7:14:21 GMT
Those 3 penalties need to be shown again & again, on how not to take a penalty.
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Post by wearestoke80 on Jul 12, 2021 7:16:03 GMT
Had a fucking enough of losing
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 12, 2021 7:17:55 GMT
Those 3 penalties need to be shown again & again, on how not to take a penalty. Certainly Sancho and Saka, not in the corner and two feet off the ground = easy save if keeper goes the right way. Never like seeing stuttering run ups but if it goes in like Jorginho's v Spain it looks pretty effective. Which makes Pickfords save v Jorginho even better.
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Post by zerps on Jul 12, 2021 7:19:51 GMT
Can’t fault England
Going all the way and losing on peno’s is wank but they’ve still done us proud
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Post by cdf on Jul 12, 2021 7:21:33 GMT
I thought Declan Rice was a colossus in the first half apart from one moment when he lost out in a challenge which the Italians nearly scored from
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Post by Scrotnig on Jul 12, 2021 7:27:11 GMT
Those 3 penalties need to be shown again & again, on how not to take a penalty. Certainly Sancho and Saka, not in the corner and two feet off the ground = easy save if keeper goes the right way. Never like seeing stuttering run ups but if it goes in like Jorginho's v Spain it looks pretty effective. Which makes Pickfords save v Jorginho even better. Pickford isn't getting enough praise either for his penalty saves or his overall tournament performance. He's a true great.
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Post by Scrotnig on Jul 12, 2021 7:28:29 GMT
Let's not forget Pickford. I'm not a fan of his, but he did his job very well in the shoot out, just a pity the outfield players couldn't do theirs. At least this time three of them screwed up so it's not all on one man. I'm looking forward to the pizza advert.
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Post by moon on Jul 12, 2021 7:36:24 GMT
I thought Declan Rice was a colossus in the first half apart from one moment when he lost out in a challenge which the Italians nearly scored from I must admit he is one I didn’t rate before the tournament, but he’s now one of the first names on the team sheet for me. He was superb.
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Post by franklin on Jul 12, 2021 7:36:35 GMT
Those 3 penalties need to be shown again & again, on how not to take a penalty. Certainly Sancho and Saka, not in the corner and two feet off the ground = easy save if keeper goes the right way. Never like seeing stuttering run ups but if it goes in like Jorginho's v Spain it looks pretty effective. Which makes Pickfords save v Jorginho even better. He made two world class saves last night one in the Italy goal when he saved the initial effort and that penalty save was incredible.
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Post by sheds1862 on Jul 12, 2021 7:36:42 GMT
These were the players who didn't take one Stones, Shaw, Phillips, Grealish, Sterling.
Out of those I'm sure Sterling has fluffed his lines at City a few times but he's the most senior player left there.
I found Sancho a strange choice, has he ever taken one in his life? Assume ( possibly wrongly ) that Haaland takes them for Dortmund. Henderson I'm certain scored in the penalty shootout against Columbia. Though he also missed v Austria prior to this tournament.
We can analyse it all day long and all have different opinions. The equaliser was seen coming by everyone in the country yet we didn't react to the possibility. Was a matter of time.
At 51 I've definitely given up on any chance of ever winning anything in my lifetime. The last 2 tournaments opened up perfectly for us.
At least the Jocks and Potato pickers can bask in their glory as neither will be in Qatar next year.
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Post by FullerMagic on Jul 12, 2021 7:40:51 GMT
Don't think we could handle the prospect of winning mentally. All the decades of accumulated bollocks and the scale of what they could have achieved seemed to overwhelm them and they couldn't handle it and retreated further and further into their shells
Gareth has got to take some blame though, and the shoot-out was badly mismanaged. Credit to Saka for stepping up, but he should have been nowhere near it.
The next step in the evolution of the side has got to be getting a ball player in the middle of the park. I thought Foden was going to be that player but he seems to have morphed into something else.
Great credit to the squad though. It's been a great month, even though last night topped the 1990 semi as my most sickening England experience, and I never thought that'd be topped
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Post by Han Solo on Jul 12, 2021 7:41:29 GMT
Southgate deserves a lot of credit but I do think he’s got a fantastic group of players at his disposal that he didn’t fully utilise. Ultimately that is what has cost us, we have a really exciting young squad full of attacking options and we didn’t play to our strengths. He needs to learn his lessons in time for the World Cup, I’m not convinced he learnt his lessons from Russia 2018 though when we tried to defend a narrow lead. and why Henderson and not the younger fitter Bellingham. If Henderson is your first sub there’s a problem.
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Post by Han Solo on Jul 12, 2021 7:42:42 GMT
I thought Declan Rice was a colossus in the first half apart from one moment when he lost out in a challenge which the Italians nearly scored from He was outstanding yesterday
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Post by partickpotter on Jul 12, 2021 7:43:23 GMT
Ultimately that is what has cost us, we have a really exciting young squad full of attacking options and we didn’t play to our strengths. He needs to learn his lessons in time for the World Cup, I’m not convinced he learnt his lessons from Russia 2018 though when we tried to defend a narrow lead. and why Henderson and not the younger fitter Bellingham. If Henderson is your first sub there’s a problem. Younger, fitter… better.
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Post by robwahlmann on Jul 12, 2021 7:54:52 GMT
I feel England sat back too much after they scored and the inevitable had to happen. In the shoot out I must say I'm a bit surprised Sancho and Saka were selected to take penalties. They are both still kids and especially Saka looked uncomfortable in the situation. Even though those two were among the better penalty takers in training the pressure in such a shoot out is hard to handle for everybody. It didn't feel right to put so much pressure on the shoulders of those young boys.
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Post by stokie1947 on Jul 12, 2021 7:57:40 GMT
if Mancini had been our manager we would have won
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Post by ceejays on Jul 12, 2021 7:58:12 GMT
Virtually everyone is saying the same thing . I can only agree. Why oh why entrust two young lads with the responsibility? No one has mentioned Calvert Lewin as far as I can see. He was better option. So grealish Sterling Calvert Lewin have all taken penalties for their clubs but not entrusted. I feel sorry for Pickford who has been brilliant all tournament. At least we’ve found a keeper who has some idea of saving penalties but the five should have been Kane Maguire rashford Calvert Lewin grealish. Well cheesed off this morning
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Post by tommycarlsberg on Jul 12, 2021 8:00:03 GMT
It was all very odd. Were penalty takers selected to get the headline 'Boo the knee racists defeated'? I'm not saying this is what happened. Merely posing the possibility. Echoes of an ill Ronaldo being forced to play for Brazil in the world cup final for sponsorship reasons. Therefore, in a sense, it was out of Southgate's hands. Who knows what machinations go on behind the scenes when money and agendas come into play. I'm just saying it was odd choices, odd circumstances, and odd how it unfolded. Nothing against the lads, but no-one can say we that was our best five choices for that situation. Fucking hell! Is there any aspect of life that you don't think is part of The Matrix!! the guy is a lunatic/prick
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Post by followyoudown on Jul 12, 2021 8:03:21 GMT
I feel England sat back too much after they scored and the inevitable had to happen. In the shoot out I must say I'm a bit surprised Sancho and Saka were selected to take penalties. They are both still kids and especially Saka looked uncomfortable in the situation. Even though those two were among the better penalty takers in training the pressure in such a shoot out is hard to handle for everybody. It didn't feel right to put so much pressure on the shoulders of those young boys. Agree with that I also think Saka was the wrong sub should have been Sancho or Rashford as Saka had zero physical presence and couldn't get into the game against those italian defenders against spain or belgium it might have been the right sub but not this game.
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Post by xchpotter on Jul 12, 2021 8:06:17 GMT
Just seen a clip of Roy Keane suggesting that Grealish and Sterling should take a look at themselves for letting younger players take penalties before themselves. I can see what he’s perhaps suggesting, but I think Southgate chose the penalty takers and imagine forcing a player to take one who then went on to miss?
At the end of the day they were poor penalties and a young or old player has as much chance as each other taking a rubbish one. The problem was it should not have got to penalties had Southgate done something earlier instead of freezing.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2021 8:07:05 GMT
Fucked off with that performance.
That one is down to the manager. Left the subs too late and happily let Italy dominate the game after the 20 minute mark.
On the news this morning there's the whole "I don't care we lost because we did so well to get there" mentality. Absolute tinpot attitude.
Southgate is starving a great attacking generation. Get him fucked off.
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Post by robwahlmann on Jul 12, 2021 8:09:12 GMT
I feel England sat back too much after they scored and the inevitable had to happen. In the shoot out I must say I'm a bit surprised Sancho and Saka were selected to take penalties. They are both still kids and especially Saka looked uncomfortable in the situation. Even though those two were among the better penalty takers in training the pressure in such a shoot out is hard to handle for everybody. It didn't feel right to put so much pressure on the shoulders of those young boys. Agree with that I also think Saka was the wrong sub should have been Sancho or Rashford as Saka had zero physical presence and couldn't get into the game against those italian defenders against spain or belgium it might have been the right sub but not this game. I think Saka already is a wonderful player, but he really looked scared against the Italian defenders and pulled out of all 50/50 situations as far as I could see. So, obviously he was the wrong sub this time, but it's all easier in hindsight you know.
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Post by franklin on Jul 12, 2021 8:09:18 GMT
Just seen a clip of Roy Keane suggesting that Grealish and Sterling should take a look at themselves for letting younger players take penalties before themselves. I can see what he’s perhaps suggesting, but I think Southgate chose the penalty takers and imagine forcing a player to take one who then went on to miss? At the end of the day they were poor penalties and a young or old player has as much chance as each other taking a rubbish one. The problem was it should not have got to penalties had Southgate done something earlier instead of freezing. Why would any player feel forced if it went to sudden death they would have had to take one. Top players stand up and be counted and demand the ball ours appeared to hide from that responsibility and left it to Saka to win them the trophy. Mental weakness and lack of courage and confidence.
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Post by adri2008 on Jul 12, 2021 8:09:48 GMT
A typical 'what if' scenario again for England. Its rare we get rolled over, it always seems to come down to some narrow frustrating margin. It's been a good tournament when all is said and done but you feel we should have just gone for it in Extra Time. Get Sancho and/or Rashford on immediately and get them running at those centre backs who were both on yellow cards.
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