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Post by viewfromthecrowsnest on Jul 11, 2021 23:30:31 GMT
Rice should’ve made more of that challenge he got too. It was worthy of a yellow, but he gets up and is all pally. That is English nobility. But the modern game caters to wankers like Jorginiho who practically mastered the dark arts of shitehousery. I remember out 2011 cup final, when citeh did cynical tactical fouls all day long in the middle third. Guess who was manager? Mancini. The italians saw the ref was lenient and milked it to the max. Chiellinis shameless pull on sakas neck was SHAMELESS.
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Post by middleoftheboothen on Jul 11, 2021 23:33:33 GMT
Exactly. He gets death threats then him wearing a football shirt causes bed wetting by those dishing out the abuse. says it all There's some sick evil people in this world and as a father you protect your children from them. I take it you don't have kids? He probably has but would stick them in the firing line too as he's an absolute weapon.
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Post by musik on Jul 11, 2021 23:35:10 GMT
Chiellinis shameless pull on sakas neck was SHAMELESS. Yes, and that stamp on Grealish. Both could have been red.
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Post by thevoid on Jul 11, 2021 23:35:51 GMT
Congratulations, you could use it to buy an imaginary ticket for the world Cup final Don't worry mate, he's just making shit up like a troll does to justify what an utter pick he's been on every thread for the last few weeks. Don't give him the attention, he's won fuck all, he's just a basement dweller lying. He's like a low rent Walter Mitty.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2021 23:41:30 GMT
There's some sick evil people in this world and as a father you protect your children from them. I take it you don't have kids? He probably has but would stick them in the firing line too as he's an absolute weapon. I find it to hard to believe someone who spends his entire life trolling on a football website in another country has had any consensual sexual experiences
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Post by viewfromthecrowsnest on Jul 11, 2021 23:41:49 GMT
Chiellinis shameless pull on sakas neck was SHAMELESS. Yes, and that stamp on Grealish. Both could have been red. Exactly. But for me what did it was putting Hendo on for Rice. Ans Saka for trippier. They did not help. What was needed was Jack’s unpredictability and creative spark. The Italians couldn’t handle him. I respect Gareth. But we did not play our best. We just handed it to Italy on a plate by sitting back and not using our abundant attacking talent.
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Post by xchpotter on Jul 11, 2021 23:45:51 GMT
Rice should’ve made more of that challenge he got too. It was worthy of a yellow, but he gets up and is all pally. That is English nobility. But the modern game caters to wankers like Jorginiho who practically mastered the dark arts of shitehousery. I remember out 2011 cup final, when citeh did cynical tactical fouls all day long in the middle third. Guess who was manager? Mancini. The italians saw the ref was lenient and milked it to the max. Chiellinis shameless pull on sakas neck was SHAMELESS. It’s just what Italy and any other winners do. There just isn’t the mentality to win things at international level with England. Lord knows what the issue is, but playing with no edge ain’t going to cut the mustard at the end of the day.
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Post by independent on Jul 11, 2021 23:50:00 GMT
If we swopped managers we would have won by 3 or 4 nil. Asking Saka to take that penalty was disgraceful. Whether Saka volunteered or not he should never have been put in that position.
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Post by GrahamHyde on Jul 11, 2021 23:51:25 GMT
Best team of the tournament won. Totally deserved imo England had a very good tournament, and have improved massively, so don't see why anyone should be crying. Anyone can miss a penalty, young or old. This. Perspective.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2021 23:52:13 GMT
no probs I backed Italy back in March so pretty good insight. Won 1300 odd quid so not too bad Who did you back....Brazil? We called it in May didn’t we Jesus? I must admit I cashed out earlier… gutted about the result mind: Certainly did dude. France now this. Am starting to believe my own hype. Spain had Italy beaten but been cool all through the tournament. was a 15 min spell a goal down tonight I thought were wobbling but re grouped and took over during an injury stoppage. Knew exactly what they were doing. Bit of a breather and sort it out. The difference between winning these games and not. A bit of street smart.
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Post by mickstupp on Jul 11, 2021 23:53:32 GMT
We called it in May didn’t we Jesus? I must admit I cashed out earlier… gutted about the result mind: Certainly did dude. France now this. Am starting to believe my own hype. Spain had Italy beaten but been cool all through the tournament. was a 15 min spell a goal down tonight I thought were wobbling but re grouped and took over during an injury stoppage. Knew exactly what they were doing. Bit of a breather and sort it out. The difference between winning these games and not. A bit of street smart. I feel gutted but I do feel that England might be able to win something soon….
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2021 23:55:37 GMT
Certainly did dude. France now this. Am starting to believe my own hype. Spain had Italy beaten but been cool all through the tournament. was a 15 min spell a goal down tonight I thought were wobbling but re grouped and took over during an injury stoppage. Knew exactly what they were doing. Bit of a breather and sort it out. The difference between winning these games and not. A bit of street smart. I feel gutted but I do feel that England might be able to win something soon…. possibly but getting this far again would be some task. I think tonight was that chance but played the one team better than them
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Post by arniehudson on Jul 11, 2021 23:59:17 GMT
So, as I understand it, professor Southgate and his lab assistant Mr Holland introduced a series of penalty taking exercises during training and Mr Holland stood there with his clip board and completed his forms showing who had scored the most during the exercise. These results were passed to Professor Southgate just before the end of the final and based on these scientific findings the Professor determined that he had to get 2 players who’d hardly kicked a ball all tournament onto the pitch as they were in the top 5 in the experiment. This done he proceeded to tell the most successful participants in the experiment that they would taking the penalties. No discussion, no taking account of age, experience, nerves or fitness. No enquiry as to whether they wanted to take them just the results of the training ground practice. Professor Southgate could not explain afterwards why his scientific method had failed but promised to introduce more practice in future.
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Post by Davef on Jul 12, 2021 0:01:24 GMT
Certainly did dude. France now this. Am starting to believe my own hype. Spain had Italy beaten but been cool all through the tournament. was a 15 min spell a goal down tonight I thought were wobbling but re grouped and took over during an injury stoppage. Knew exactly what they were doing. Bit of a breather and sort it out. The difference between winning these games and not. A bit of street smart. I feel gutted but I do feel that England might be able to win something soon…. This tournament was our big chance. Italy failed to qualify for the last World Cup but Mancini has rejuvenated them and they will build on this. France and Spain will continue to be major players and only a fool would write off Germany. In the World Cup you've also got Brazil and Argentina to deal with. We've got some really good young players but we just haven't developed a winning mentality and though you can't judge this squad on the failings of the past, tonight was our big chance to start to put that to bed but we failed.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 12, 2021 0:02:51 GMT
If he knew (and he did) that Sterling and Grealish weren't going to be one of the first five, then the manager should have had them off earlier and replaced them with Rashford and Sancho. But how do we know he did? The five they decide on in training is often not the 5 that ends up taking them after the match. Do you genuinely think he'd decided on the likes of Maguire ahead of Sterling beforehand? Yes, Maguire scored but do you seriously think he had the option of Sterling and Grealish and thought "No, the centre back and the teenagers are my men"?? You seem very insistent on placing this blame at one person's door. Because Southgate has been utterly meticulous in every aspect of his planning during this tournament. Do you seriously think he didn't know the order of his penalty takers before the match began? Gary Neville has just been explaining how the order will have been based on specific data based on painstaking research of numerous penalties taken in training and that they have not only been practicing taking the penalties themselves but they have also been practicing walking from the half-way line before making the strike, having previously been handed the ball by Pickford rather than the referee (possibly unique). But despite all his planning, he seems to have completely overlooked the fact that you don't want players being put under overwhelming pressure by bringing them on cold, to perform just one job and one job only. I bet he won't do it again.
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Post by mickstupp on Jul 12, 2021 0:04:31 GMT
I feel gutted but I do feel that England might be able to win something soon…. This tournament was our big chance. Italy failed to qualify for the last World Cup but Mancini has rejuvenated them and they will build on this. France and Spain will continue to be major players and only a fool would write off Germany. In the World Cup you've also got Brazil and Argentina to deal with. We've got some really good young players but we just haven't developed a winning mentality and though you can't judge this squad on the failings of the past, tonight was out chance to start to put that to bed but we failed. I just feel that we are starting to produce the kind of technically skilled players that can take us deep into tournaments. I’m disappointed that we haven’t won tonight like everyone else, but the future is bright.
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Post by Davef on Jul 12, 2021 0:08:00 GMT
This tournament was our big chance. Italy failed to qualify for the last World Cup but Mancini has rejuvenated them and they will build on this. France and Spain will continue to be major players and only a fool would write off Germany. In the World Cup you've also got Brazil and Argentina to deal with. We've got some really good young players but we just haven't developed a winning mentality and though you can't judge this squad on the failings of the past, tonight was out chance to start to put that to bed but we failed. I just feel that we are starting to produce the kind of technically skilled players that can take us deep into tournaments. I’m disappointed that we haven’t won tonight like everyone else but the future is bright. I absolutely agree mate, but we have to develop the winning mentality that the likes of Germany, France, Italy and Spain have. The question is, how do we achieve that?
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Post by independent on Jul 12, 2021 0:08:53 GMT
We were 1 up after 2 minutes and should have built on that. The italians were afraid that their 2 centre halves could be exposed, so they pulled their full backs in from the touchlines to help them out. That is how we got our goal. We continued to probe down the flanks for about 20 minutes. especially using our right wing, but failed to create any chances. We played another 120 minutes of football and their keeper didn't have to make a save. Pickford had to make 2 or 3 excellent saves. The subs that we put on didn't improve us any. Basically the strength England possess is the number of good attacking players we have, but instead of using this we decided to play 2 defensive players in the middle. In the Denmark game Kane played deep and was the only source of creativity in the side. You need someone who can play the piano as well as someone who can carry it.We had 2 carriers and no pianist.
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Post by thevoid on Jul 12, 2021 0:11:41 GMT
I just feel that we are starting to produce the kind of technically skilled players that can take us deep into tournaments. I’m disappointed that we haven’t won tonight like everyone else but the future is bright. I absolutely agree mate, but we have to develop the winning mentality that the likes of Germany, France, Italy and Spain have. The question is, how do we achieve that? Not with Southgate. A nice bloke who wouldn't look out of place at Fulham Belgium will surely bin Martinez too
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Jul 12, 2021 0:12:37 GMT
But how do we know he did? The five they decide on in training is often not the 5 that ends up taking them after the match. Do you genuinely think he'd decided on the likes of Maguire ahead of Sterling beforehand? Yes, Maguire scored but do you seriously think he had the option of Sterling and Grealish and thought "No, the centre back and the teenagers are my men"?? You seem very insistent on placing this blame at one person's door. Because Southgate has been utterly meticulous in every aspect of his planning during this tournament. Do you seriously think he didn't know the order of his penalty takers before the match began? Gary Neville has just been explaining how the order will have been based on specific data based on painstaking research of numerous penalties taken in training and that they have not only been practicing taking the penalties themselves but they have also been practicing walking from the half-way line before making the strike, having previously been handed the ball by Pickford rather than the referee (possibly unique). But despite all his planning, he seems to have completely overlooked the fact that you don't want players being put under overwhelming pressure by bringing them on cold, to perform just one job and one job only. I bet he won't do it again. Totally agree with most of that (and had heard of the practising taking the ball from the halfway line, rather than just taking a pen which was a good move i thought) but i still don't believe that if the likes of Sterling had stood up and volunteered we'd have had the same 5 taking them tonight. He's a senior pro with the England set up, vice captain of the squad, a proven goalscorer at Prem, Champs league, international and major tournament level and the 1 player Southate has trusted more than any other from the first minute of the tournament. Edit: literally just watched Roy Keane say almost exactly the same thing....have now realised what a miserable bastard that therefore makes me...arse!
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Post by mickstupp on Jul 12, 2021 0:17:53 GMT
I just feel that we are starting to produce the kind of technically skilled players that can take us deep into tournaments. I’m disappointed that we haven’t won tonight like everyone else but the future is bright. I absolutely agree mate, but we have to develop the winning mentality that the likes of Germany, France, Italy and Spain have. The question is, how do we achieve that? Fine margins. We lost to the better side tonight in my opinion. The worst thing to happen was for us to score so early in the game. We’ve seen a very similar approach from Stoke over the years. Sitting back and protecting a lead rarely works out. I look at Spain, a team who had been knocking on the door for ages, and once they had broken through once (2008) they dominated for years afterwards.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 12, 2021 0:22:55 GMT
Because Southgate has been utterly meticulous in every aspect of his planning during this tournament. Do you seriously think he didn't know the order of his penalty takers before the match began? Gary Neville has just been explaining how the order will have been based on specific data based on painstaking research of numerous penalties taken in training and that they have not only been practicing taking the penalties themselves but they have also been practicing walking from the half-way line before making the strike, having previously been handed the ball by Pickford rather than the referee (possibly unique). But despite all his planning, he seems to have completely overlooked the fact that you don't want players being put under overwhelming pressure by bringing them on cold, to perform just one job and one job only. I bet he won't do it again. Totally agree with most of that (and had heard of the practising taking the ball from the halfway line, rather than just taking a pen which was a good move i thought) but i still don't believe that if the likes of Sterling had stood up and volunteered we'd have had the same 5 taking them tonight. He's a senior pro with the England set up, vice captain of the squad, a proven goalscorer at Prem, Champs league, international and major tournament level and the 1 player Southate has trusted more than any other from the first minute of the tournament. Southgate wouldn't have left it to "the likes of Sterling to stand up and volunteer", he would have known who were his best penalty takers based on the data accumulated on the training ground. I was surprised as anybody when Maguire stepped up to take the second one, however he unleashed an utter thunderbolt that no keeper would have got anywhere near and then it all made sense ... he'd been doing this regularly in training no doubt. Maybe Sterling was prepared to take one but the ones he had been taking in training were just not very good. And I bet Rashford's and Sancho's penalties had been bloody good in training too, I can't believe Gareth would bring them on to just take penalties if they hadn't been.
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Post by thfc67 on Jul 12, 2021 0:32:21 GMT
The first half was the best I've seen this England team play during this tournament. But, when Mancini changed his team and tactics for the second half, which he had to do, Southgate done fuck all in response, besides bringing on a 19 year old player, with no experience of top class football. While players like Grealish, Foden, Rashford and Sancho remained on the bench.
When it inevitably came to a penalty shoot-out. Southgate decided it would be the 19 year old player to take the 5th penalty, always a crucial one if it gets that far. Don't insult my intelligence and talk bollocks about 'players putting there name forward' to take a penalty. This should be decided days before the game, with the most experienced players told/encouraged they have to step up to the plate.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2021 0:36:35 GMT
ringing players on cold, especially so young to take pens not a great move. who remembers Zico coming on in the WC and his first touch was missing a pen? It doesn't matter what they do in training, different scenario completely.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 12, 2021 0:44:43 GMT
Can’t have been the only one to scream “why the fuck is he taking a penalty” at the tv either? 😂😂
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Post by thfc67 on Jul 12, 2021 0:47:41 GMT
Anyway, I'm off. Spent a lot more time on here during the Euros than I'd normally do. I even got my first red card from admin; my account was suspended for a week. Totally deserved, I got into a drunken, heated row with someone, can't remember who or bother looking back (apologies, no hard feelings). But it did teach me, an old dog, don't mix cider with wine.
I've enjoyed the banter over the last month. Good luck for the coming season
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Post by callas12 on Jul 12, 2021 0:48:20 GMT
It’s pretty clear from last nights match that Southgate doesn’t trust the young talented players to do what they are good at..! But he is happy to put them in situations they have no experience of - makes no sense whatsoever!
I only have admiration for Saka stepping up but the 5th pen in a tournament final 🤔 , really?! What has Saka experienced in his career that would mentally prepare him for that? 🙄😬
Pretty much everything that was good about the team during this tournament had splinters in their backsides after 90 mins of this final.
I’m so done with hearing the same old wheeled out excuses & crap about players learning from it because the management never do - The harsh reality is they are specialists in failure at the highest level - Once plan A stutters or fails they are completely inept at proactively changing the course of the game.
Whilst Southgate may win many plaudits for our World Cup Semi Final position & last nights Final, I do seriously doubt & question Southgates managerial credentials & decision making at times. Yes he's done OK with us, but as others have alluded to, the World Cup & Euro Finals have presented this England set up with the best opportunities we've had for years to win a major honour. Sometimes the reality just sets in that England just aren't destined to win anything else of note & whilst we as fans of our nation always think we're a powerhouse on the football stage, in reality we're sadly not.
I very much doubt we'll get similar opportunities to achieve anything going forward from here, so Semi Final of the WC & the Final of the Euros may be looked on by future generations as a failure to achieve something when it mattered & as the opportunity arose, as the majority of us who remember look back on 1990 & 1996 as.
Guess we'll always be known as the has-beens. Our infliction with bad look just doesn't seem to affect the Italians, Germans, Spanish, Portugese & French as it does us! They can all refer back to recent successes where as similar to us being Stoke fans who day dream back to 1972, the same applies to England & 1966..
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Post by mtrstudent on Jul 12, 2021 0:54:06 GMT
We got further than any other time in my life. Lads worked as a team and we got beaten by an excellent opponent.
I was crying for Grealish by 60 mins, we had an easy run etc...
But this is a team I can be proud of. Saka going up for the fifth and fucking it up is so very England, but I hope he picks himself up for England's sake.
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Post by riproaringagain on Jul 12, 2021 1:09:05 GMT
We need that tumour out of our club let him spread his poison elsewhere
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Post by spitthedog on Jul 12, 2021 1:28:43 GMT
Totally agree with most of that (and had heard of the practising taking the ball from the halfway line, rather than just taking a pen which was a good move i thought) but i still don't believe that if the likes of Sterling had stood up and volunteered we'd have had the same 5 taking them tonight. He's a senior pro with the England set up, vice captain of the squad, a proven goalscorer at Prem, Champs league, international and major tournament level and the 1 player Southate has trusted more than any other from the first minute of the tournament. Southgate wouldn't have left it to "the likes of Sterling to stand up and volunteer", he would have known who were his best penalty takers based on the data accumulated on the training ground. I was surprised as anybody when Maguire stepped up to take the second one, however he unleashed an utter thunderbolt that no keeper would have got anywhere near and then it all made sense ... he'd been doing this regularly in training no doubt. Maybe Sterling was prepared to take one but the ones he had been taking in training were just not very good. And I bet Rashford's and Sancho's penalties had been bloody good in training too, I can't believe Gareth would bring them on to just take penalties if they hadn't been. All this stuff can be over analysed. Italy had Jorginho down as 5th pen taker to win the game, an experienced player, who has an incredible track record of taking penalties. He missed it. It happens. It's not an exact science.
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