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Clucas?
Jun 3, 2021 11:28:56 GMT
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Post by citynickscfc on Jun 3, 2021 11:28:56 GMT
Both. Being sensitive is actually a very favourable characteristic in the 21st century if you hadn't realised? Also being empathic is too. Basically, supporters can boo and criticise a poor performance, but not make things personal, and alternatively the same applies for a player who should attempt to prove fans wrong. Scoring a single goal against league 2 teams for a team investing hundreds of millions, then trying to put one over on your own fans, shows a distinct lack of character and understanding. I am not suggesting that bullying by fans is in any way acceptable, but the frustrations were justified, we were shit, and at the very least the players themselves should have been striving for much much better, this acknowledging and in fact joining in with the frustration, not trying to counter it or provoke it. Booing the entire team, which is what was occurring, including the manager, was a collective display of disapproval for the situation. A lot of that could have come from Rowett to be honest with his fan hostility, but clearly the club doesnt value its fans for whatever reason (seen in many regards, fan agency, experience, I've started this many times over to be fair). Either way, brown looked like an idiot doing it but to my knowledge he's had it a lot worse and should be professional enough to make secondary accounts on Facebook or Twatter and stay away from self reviews, in a time where we are/were utterly shit. That applies to the clucas situation too. Brainless reaction from an absolutely priveledged position. Both players show a lack of intelligence to be honest. Either way, is he gone yet? I mean, he was a write off last season, as were we. And by signing Mikel and Chester again, we have pretty much set up our aims as 'any progress' for next season. Theres no way O'Niell is fired for mid table (but progress) next season either, we are so far in the shit it doesn't really matter what happens as we aren't going to challenge, invest, just attempt to sustain... In the middle of the championship. Joyous. You say that empathy and sensitivity are positive traits to have, but then go on to justify fans booing a player for not playing well. It's so hypocritical. All the lad did was cup his ear. He didn't swear, stick his fingers up, glare, or shush anyone. He literally just cupped his ear while smiling about scoring. Lack of character is booing and abusing our top scorer who single-handedly kept us up that season with his contributions and efforts. And for the love of god, please don't talk about lack of intelligence. That's a flex that is utterly, utterly cringe worthy, and makes you look like a twat. I presumed someone would reply as such, as it does seem contradictory, yet empathy for a football team playing badly frequently on a budget of hundreds of times that of the opposition?? That's the stretch. At the very least I expect players to give their all for the fans and the badge, players not doing so should expect a degree of criticism no? Booing is essentially criticism. It's not and should not be frowned upon, why should you limit criticism? Focusing on one player I agree Footballing intelligence is something entirely applicable to the game. In addition to a lack of understanding of fans frustrations and our incredible, incredible decline . I think a little empathy for the fans and an understanding of why we might be frustrated is paramount to understanding the situation. Fans showing empathy for an under performing group of millionaires, and booing isn't an acceptable expression of distain? Why? They had excessive amounts of support at that point.
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Clucas?
Jun 3, 2021 16:14:58 GMT
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Post by hardcastle on Jun 3, 2021 16:14:58 GMT
My opposition to booing our own players isn't based on my concern for the sensitivity of the players (l'm sure they can look after themselves) but rather that it worsens the atmosphere amongst the support. 99 per cent of the crowd won't be booing - why should the vocal 1 per cent ruin it for the rest?
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Post by dudnostokie on Jun 3, 2021 20:50:19 GMT
I presumed someone would reply as such, as it does seem contradictory, yet empathy for a football team playing badly frequently on a budget of hundreds of times that of the opposition?? That's the stretch. At the very least I expect players to give their all for the fans and the badge, players not doing so should expect a degree of criticism no? Booing is essentially criticism. It's not and should not be frowned upon, why should you limit criticism? Focusing on one player I agree Footballing intelligence is something entirely applicable to the game. In addition to a lack of understanding of fans frustrations and our incredible, incredible decline . I think a little empathy for the fans and an understanding of why we might be frustrated is paramount to understanding the situation. Fans showing empathy for an under performing group of millionaires, and booing isn't an acceptable expression of distain? Why? They had excessive amounts of support at that point. I don't agree with booing and abusing our players, I think it is counter productive and affects the confidence, sometimes severely (take Afobe for example). However, my issue isn't necessarily with the booers/verbal abusers, it's with those who do this and then piss and moan like spineless hypocrites when they give it back. There are very few of our players left from our deep decline from the prem. It's pointless lashing out at a group of championship players for not setting the league alight. Clucas was one of the only shining lights of the 19/20 season, if he shushed the fans then he would be well within his right to. He didn't, he cupped one ear, and our bunch of wet fannies lost their feeble minds over it. It's honestly so pathetic.
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Post by Squeekster on Jun 3, 2021 22:13:45 GMT
I presumed someone would reply as such, as it does seem contradictory, yet empathy for a football team playing badly frequently on a budget of hundreds of times that of the opposition?? That's the stretch. At the very least I expect players to give their all for the fans and the badge, players not doing so should expect a degree of criticism no? Booing is essentially criticism. It's not and should not be frowned upon, why should you limit criticism? Focusing on one player I agree Footballing intelligence is something entirely applicable to the game. In addition to a lack of understanding of fans frustrations and our incredible, incredible decline . I think a little empathy for the fans and an understanding of why we might be frustrated is paramount to understanding the situation. Fans showing empathy for an under performing group of millionaires, and booing isn't an acceptable expression of distain? Why? They had excessive amounts of support at that point. I don't agree with booing and abusing our players, I think it is counter productive and affects the confidence, sometimes severely (take Afobe for example). However, my issue isn't necessarily with the booers/verbal abusers, it's with those who do this and then piss and moan like spineless hypocrites when they give it back. There are very few of our players left from our deep decline from the prem. It's pointless lashing out at a group of championship players for not setting the league alight. Clucas was one of the only shining lights of the 19/20 season, if he shushed the fans then he would be well within his right to. He didn't, he cupped one ear, and our bunch of wet fannies lost their feeble minds over it. It's honestly so pathetic. If a professional and well paid one at that can't perform his job because he isn't being told how good they are and are not being praised in songs, can't do their job we just have to pay our hard earned money and suck it!
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Clucas?
Jun 4, 2021 6:28:05 GMT
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Post by dudnostokie on Jun 4, 2021 6:28:05 GMT
If a professional and well paid one at that can't perform his job because he isn't being told how good they are and are not being praised in songs, can't do their job we just have to pay our hard earned money and suck it! No, if a "fan" gives dog's abuse and boos another human being, and gets a little gesture (again literally just one cup of an ear) when that human has just proved them wrong and scored. Then that fan should just "suck it". It's simple, actions have consequences. If you abuse somebody, and they react, don't act like a little bitch about it.
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Post by Squeekster on Jun 4, 2021 6:36:22 GMT
If a professional and well paid one at that can't perform his job because he isn't being told how good they are and are not being praised in songs, can't do their job we just have to pay our hard earned money and suck it! No, if a "fan" gives dog's abuse and boos another human being, and gets a little gesture (again literally just one cup of an ear) when that human has just proved them wrong and scored. Then that fan should just "suck it". It's simple, actions have consequences. If you abuse somebody, and they react, don't act like a little bitch about it. Yeah a player on 30 grand a week does his job once in a while and gives it the big one for doing so, not that I abused him but when players seemingly don't give a toss I can understand the boo's.
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Post by dudnostokie on Jun 4, 2021 6:45:21 GMT
Yeah a player on 30 grand a week does his job once in a while and gives it the big one for doing so, not that I abused him but when players seemingly don't give a toss I can understand the boo's. He didn't just do his job once in a while though, he was our top scorer (from midfield) and kept us in the league. Secondly, just because someone earns more than you doesn't make it OK to abuse them. That's an entitled opinion, salary should not come into the discussion whatsoever. The majority of footballers do it for love of the game, and in a competitive environment people can be more sensitive than they would be normally. I keep coming back to it, but it's not like he Cantona kicked a fan in the face, or even did the Allen shush (which isn't a big deal either), he literally just cupped an ear in a "let's be hearing you" kind of manner.
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Post by Squeekster on Jun 4, 2021 7:33:30 GMT
Yeah a player on 30 grand a week does his job once in a while and gives it the big one for doing so, not that I abused him but when players seemingly don't give a toss I can understand the boo's. He didn't just do his job once in a while though, he was our top scorer (from midfield) and kept us in the league. Secondly, just because someone earns more than you doesn't make it OK to abuse them. That's an entitled opinion, salary should not come into the discussion whatsoever. The majority of footballers do it for love of the game, and in a competitive environment people can be more sensitive than they would be normally. I keep coming back to it, but it's not like he Cantona kicked a fan in the face, or even did the Allen shush (which isn't a big deal either), he literally just cupped an ear in a "let's be hearing you" kind of manner. Alright Sam calm down, just because he was top scorer simply doesn't mean he's not open to criticism, like I said I didn't boo or abuse him I'm merely saying "that's an entitled opinion" and if you ask most stoke fans if our so called top players aren't in for the money I think they'd disagree.
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Post by stokiemarc on Jun 4, 2021 9:32:02 GMT
I'd like to see him leave this summer, fresh, young blood in that midfield. Thompson to step up hopefully.
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Post by silsdenstokie on Jun 4, 2021 9:59:23 GMT
I still think he has something to offer but if hes on huge wages and it helps the FFP situation then i have no issue with him leaving
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Clucas?
Jun 4, 2021 10:10:05 GMT
via mobile
Post by dudnostokie on Jun 4, 2021 10:10:05 GMT
Alright Sam calm down, just because he was top scorer simply doesn't mean he's not open to criticism, like I said I didn't boo or abuse him I'm merely saying "that's an entitled opinion" and if you ask most stoke fans if our so called top players aren't in for the money I think they'd disagree. There's no substance to your retort whatsoever, so I'll leave it at that.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2021 11:48:00 GMT
He's not a bad player , and could have a decent season elsewhere but we need to unload his wages
We need younger , hungrier players on lower wages
We just have to many older , been there , done it , players , on huge wages
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Post by FranktheRabbit on Jun 4, 2021 12:27:10 GMT
Yeah a player on 30 grand a week does his job once in a while and gives it the big one for doing so, not that I abused him but when players seemingly don't give a toss I can understand the boo's. He didn't just do his job once in a while though, he was our top scorer (from midfield) and kept us in the league. Secondly, just because someone earns more than you doesn't make it OK to abuse them. That's an entitled opinion, salary should not come into the discussion whatsoever. The majority of footballers do it for love of the game, and in a competitive environment people can be more sensitive than they would be normally. I keep coming back to it, but it's not like he Cantona kicked a fan in the face, or even did the Allen shush (which isn't a big deal either), he literally just cupped an ear in a "let's be hearing you" kind of manner. I genuinely cannot fathom why people get so pissy about players giving a bit back? Other than as you say, it's a sense of entitlement amongst some fans.
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Post by AlliG on Jun 4, 2021 19:34:11 GMT
He didn't just do his job once in a while though, he was our top scorer (from midfield) and kept us in the league. Secondly, just because someone earns more than you doesn't make it OK to abuse them. That's an entitled opinion, salary should not come into the discussion whatsoever. The majority of footballers do it for love of the game, and in a competitive environment people can be more sensitive than they would be normally. I keep coming back to it, but it's not like he Cantona kicked a fan in the face, or even did the Allen shush (which isn't a big deal either), he literally just cupped an ear in a "let's be hearing you" kind of manner. I genuinely cannot fathom why people get so pissy about players giving a bit back? Other than as you say, it's a sense of entitlement amongst some fans. I must admit that when we score I am usually far too busy celebrating to give a **** what the players are doing. It is normally only when I come on here later that I discover someone throwing a hissy fit about something one of the players has done after scoring.
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Clucas?
Jun 6, 2021 10:02:25 GMT
via mobile
Post by chuckrocky on Jun 6, 2021 10:02:25 GMT
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Post by FullerMagic on Jun 6, 2021 10:05:20 GMT
Interesting as they could get offer him very good wages with their parachute cash. Sooner he goes, the better
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Clucas?
Jun 6, 2021 10:15:20 GMT
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Post by lordb on Jun 6, 2021 10:15:20 GMT
Interesting as they could get offer him very good wages with their parachute cash. Sooner he goes, the better Albion, Sheffield United and Fulham are our best hope for moving on high earners
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Post by xchpotter on Jun 6, 2021 10:15:25 GMT
Interesting as they could get offer him very good wages with their parachute cash. Sooner he goes, the better Hopefully. Won’t be sorry to see him go and if the opportunity arises to ship him out and assist with any FFP all the better. Another half a dozen to go.🤞
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 6, 2021 10:15:52 GMT
If they want him and we don’t get a fee then we are fucking shit.
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Post by FullerMagic on Jun 6, 2021 10:19:52 GMT
If they want him and we don’t get a fee then we are fucking shit. Not when he's got another year left on 30k-a-week though. In the post-Corona world where Championship wages are supposedly down 50% on 2019, he wouldn't be moveable with a decent fee on top, would he? Guessing the interest in him would plummet if we were asking for a meaningful fee on top. And he's only attractive to even clubs like Sheff u on a free, you'd think?
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Post by werrington on Jun 6, 2021 10:21:36 GMT
In return for another season of ND?
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Post by gingerninja on Jun 6, 2021 10:24:22 GMT
I am really not fussed about RND returning at all. I think there are better out there.
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Clucas?
Jun 6, 2021 10:29:13 GMT
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Post by lordb on Jun 6, 2021 10:29:13 GMT
I am really not fussed about RND returning at all. I think there are better out there. I liked him, bit rash but he's young. Is Harry Pickering still available?
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Clucas?
Jun 6, 2021 10:29:18 GMT
via mobile
Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 6, 2021 10:29:18 GMT
If they want him and we don’t get a fee then we are fucking shit. Not when he's got another year left on 30k-a-week though. In the post-Corona world where Championship wages are supposedly down 50% on 2019, he wouldn't be moveable with a decent fee on top, would he? Guessing the interest in him would plummet if we were asking for a meaningful fee on top. And he's only attractive to even clubs like Sheff u on a free, you'd think? They’ve got PL riches, a fee should be got.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 6, 2021 10:29:49 GMT
I am really not fussed about RND returning at all. I think there are better out there. Very overrated. Fox is miles better as things stand.
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Clucas?
Jun 6, 2021 10:36:54 GMT
via mobile
Post by followyoudown on Jun 6, 2021 10:36:54 GMT
Not when he's got another year left on 30k-a-week though. In the post-Corona world where Championship wages are supposedly down 50% on 2019, he wouldn't be moveable with a decent fee on top, would he? Guessing the interest in him would plummet if we were asking for a meaningful fee on top. And he's only attractive to even clubs like Sheff u on a free, you'd think? They’ve got PL riches, a fee should be got. In an ideal world but will that fee be bigger than any signing on fees / loyalty bonuses / wages payoff we have to then give him.
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Post by christhepotter on Jun 6, 2021 10:37:44 GMT
Not when he's got another year left on 30k-a-week though. In the post-Corona world where Championship wages are supposedly down 50% on 2019, he wouldn't be moveable with a decent fee on top, would he? Guessing the interest in him would plummet if we were asking for a meaningful fee on top. And he's only attractive to even clubs like Sheff u on a free, you'd think? They’ve got PL riches, a fee should be got. No one will be interested if there’s a fee involved though
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Clucas?
Jun 6, 2021 10:38:31 GMT
via mobile
Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 6, 2021 10:38:31 GMT
They’ve got PL riches, a fee should be got. In an ideal world but will that fee be bigger than any signing on fees / loyalty bonuses / wages payoff we have to then give him. I’d expect 2/3m quid so I’d hope not.
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Post by christhepotter on Jun 6, 2021 10:47:47 GMT
In an ideal world but will that fee be bigger than any signing on fees / loyalty bonuses / wages payoff we have to then give him. I’d expect 2/3m quid so I’d hope not. No one will pay that
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Post by lordb on Jun 6, 2021 10:52:21 GMT
In an ideal world but will that fee be bigger than any signing on fees / loyalty bonuses / wages payoff we have to then give him. I’d expect 2/3m quid so I’d hope not. Pure fantasy
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