|
Post by davejohnno1 on Mar 4, 2021 13:03:31 GMT
I thought we did that last night. For large chunks of the game, Gunn never touched the ball. First 15 mins then Swansea sussed it then bossed the next 30 Second half and with a forced change at ht ( otherwise it wouldn’t of happened) we again bossed 15 mins before Swansea changed and bossed the next 30 It’s poor fayre mate and easy to play against I don't think we were easy to play against last night and the changed, forced or otherwise is a moot point. We've hit the post twice, scored a decent goal as a result of being on the front foot, missed an open goal and wasted several other "situations" as usual. We are a poor side anyway so I'm not really sure what people expect. We have had a poor run of results and confidence is fragile among what is essentially a poor team. Some will be apoplectic, others will temper criticism with some mitigating circumstances in defence of the manager. As always, the truth will be somewhere in between the two. We are a poor team in reality and our X factor is missing. Norwich struggled without their xfactor, now he's back they are flying. Brentford have come a bit unstuck without their xfactor at full fitness. Swansea had hit the ropes with their best player out. It's a hugely frustrating season but a season that with a little bit of luck in terms of injuries and refereeing decisions it could look a whole lot different. Had Batth been out for the season instead of Collins. If Vokes had got Campbells injury etc etc. Our injuries have hit our best and most in form players at a time when they were playing well. Fletcher got injured just as he was starting to contribute and has been less than fully fit ever since. Clucas has been injured pretty much all season. Campbell out all season when the inform player in the whole league. Souttar isolating for Covid when he was flying. Mikel's initial injury came when he was actually playing quite well. We have been desperately unlucky at times, particularly with injuries and you have to temper criticism with those things. We've not lost key players for a few weeks. We've lost them for months.
|
|
|
Post by questionable on Mar 4, 2021 13:04:35 GMT
Words deceive me for anyone who thought we played well but all about opinions.
For me it was diabolical odd good pass then some clown gets dispossessed, half arsed weak passes, whack it out for a throw, lump it up only to be straight back under pressure.
For those who think we’re an odd player short of a good team it’s laughable and to make it worse we have a dinosaur of a manager who staggeringly thinks that the likes of Allen & Mikel are fit to start together, Mikel at all.
The club wreaks of failure, incompetence and owners who are as thick as pig shit when it comes to things of late.
|
|
|
Post by bgreen13 on Mar 4, 2021 13:07:27 GMT
Stalls set out.
When you see who’s posted you know which type of game they saw.
|
|
|
Post by prestwichpotter on Mar 4, 2021 13:08:15 GMT
If you’re bored shitless watching last night mate then there’s no hope I’m afraid.I’d judge it as one of our better performances this season to be honest especially since Campbell’s injury We lost mate ...again 3 wins in 20 and 8 points from ( so far ) 42 points available against the current top 8 again tells its own story Even with our injuries we’ve still got a squad capable of giving any team in this league a game but sadly we aren’t We are giving them a game though. Apart from Norwich away this season we've been "in every game" right until the final minutes. We may not have deserved anything or being good enough to put our chances away but we've still given every team a game.......
|
|
|
Post by davejohnno1 on Mar 4, 2021 13:10:26 GMT
I thought we did that last night. For large chunks of the game, Gunn never touched the ball. Is that the barometer then Dave? Whether we keep it away from our own goalkeeper for a bit? We pressed well for the first 15 or so until they equalised and were second best for the rest of the half. We changed shape and played well for the first 20 or so at the start of the second half and then faded again and were second best. I'm the wrong person to ask because I think we are absolutely toss. I've thought that for ages and I think that now. We've spunked millions of pounds away on absolute shit and now the current manager is being forced to shop among the bargain basement. He's got to unearth a gem or gamble on ageing senior players. I don't really judge us on anything. I accept that we are shit. I don't see it being any better until our best players, the ones who can mask the deficiencies of the others, are fully fit and as such, my expectations are practically zero. Most teams in this league are the same. Norwich have their Danny Batth's but their good players mask the shortcomings of the rest at this level. Grant Handley, for example, is absolutely toss and if he were a mainstay of our team, you'd be devastated. The best teams have an xfactor or 2 that mask the short-comings of the rest of the team. We have 2 and half and 1 and half have been injured for much of the season. Campbell, Powell and Fletcher are our xfactor but the problem is they need each other. I don't think we were 2nd best last night at all. We all know our shortcomings but we more than matched them and bettered them in many instances.
|
|
|
Post by FullerMagic on Mar 4, 2021 13:14:26 GMT
If you’re bored shitless watching last night mate then there’s no hope I’m afraid.I’d judge it as one of our better performances this season to be honest especially since Campbell’s injury We lost mate ...again 3 wins in 20 and 8 points from ( so far ) 42 points available against the current top 8 again tells its own story Even with our injuries we’ve still got a squad capable of giving any team in this league a game but sadly we aren’t We do give them all a game though, don't we? XG isn't perfect as a barometer, but it's a decent shorthand to look at our bad luck. And we've been on the wrong end of razor-thin margins. Take away the penalty, and we were very comfortably ahead on that metric yesterday. They created absolutely nothing after HT apart from that volley, before the ref gifted them the points. And we even edged the Brentford and Barnsley games, where 2 wonder goals (with a 4% chance and a 3% chance sailed into the top corner and completely changed the trajectory of the games) We had slightly the better of the Reading home game, and the Huddersfield away game was winnable before RND went off. The week before that, we were very good against Watford for an hour before a soft pen, and comfortably ahead on XG there. Same for Bournemouth. Then there was the Blackburn game, where we looked as good as we've done for months before Chester's red card. Clearly there are problems, but it's almost unbelievable we haven't picked up half a dozen more points
|
|
|
Post by Squeekster on Mar 4, 2021 13:15:32 GMT
What makes swansea one of the best sides in the division? Did we nit come down the same time as them? Mote to the point what's with the inspector clusau impression?
|
|
|
Post by jeycov on Mar 4, 2021 13:29:19 GMT
The problem is we don’t play well for whole 90 mins Who does? Even Man City concede goals Most significant for Stoke is the inability to create and then convert chances Get a few more points on the board then steadily introduce more of the youngsters from the bench MON did this with Campbell, Souttar and Collins, they didn’t “walk straight into the first team”
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 4, 2021 13:31:24 GMT
Is that the barometer then Dave? Whether we keep it away from our own goalkeeper for a bit? We pressed well for the first 15 or so until they equalised and were second best for the rest of the half. We changed shape and played well for the first 20 or so at the start of the second half and then faded again and were second best. I'm the wrong person to ask because I think we are absolutely toss. I've thought that for ages and I think that now. We've spunked millions of pounds away on absolute shit and now the current manager is being forced to shop among the bargain basement. He's got to unearth a gem or gamble on ageing senior players. I don't really judge us on anything. I accept that we are shit. I don't see it being any better until our best players, the ones who can mask the deficiencies of the others, are fully fit and as such, my expectations are practically zero. Most teams in this league are the same. Norwich have their Danny Batth's but their good players mask the shortcomings of the rest at this level. Grant Handley, for example, is absolutely toss and if he were a mainstay of our team, you'd be devastated. The best teams have an xfactor or 2 that mask the short-comings of the rest of the team. We have 2 and half and 1 and half have been injured for much of the season. Campbell, Powell and Fletcher are our xfactor but the problem is they need each other. I don't think we were 2nd best last night at all. We all know our shortcomings but we more than matched them and bettered them in many instances. I thought we didn't deserve to lose but the performance was, at the absolute best, patchy and we're capable of better even with the limits of the squad we've got.
|
|
|
Post by crouchpotato1 on Mar 4, 2021 13:38:44 GMT
If you’re bored shitless watching last night mate then there’s no hope I’m afraid.I’d judge it as one of our better performances this season to be honest especially since Campbell’s injury We lost mate ...again 3 wins in 20 and 8 points from ( so far ) 42 points available against the current top 8 again tells its own story Even with our injuries we’ve still got a squad capable of giving any team in this league a game but sadly we aren’t In the last 5 games weve given every team a game with the exception of Barnsley.I agree that record is dreadful but changing the manager would be a massive massive mistake
|
|
|
Post by werrington on Mar 4, 2021 13:40:42 GMT
We lost mate ...again 3 wins in 20 and 8 points from ( so far ) 42 points available against the current top 8 again tells its own story Even with our injuries we’ve still got a squad capable of giving any team in this league a game but sadly we aren’t In the last 5 games weve given every team a game with the exception of Barnsley.I agree that record is dreadful but changing the manager would be a massive massive mistake Where did I say I wanted a change of manager?
|
|
|
Post by apb1 on Mar 4, 2021 13:41:03 GMT
We've lost from last year:
Campbell Clucas and McClean for long periods and less effective when playing Vokes in the sense of posing any threat to the opponents' goal which he did on occasion, even scoring a few Gregory now sometimes injured and largely ineffective before being binned off Ince and Allen who were still contributing to some of our wins last year at least up to Hull. BMI - who I rate more highly than many and I think played quite a lot last year.
From this year:
Collins Fox for long periods Goalies of all sorts
That's hard to deal with, BUT I can't let MON off the hook completely. His job was to both define and replace the expensive wasters (we all agree with Ince but how about BMI?) and his signings have mainly seemed to replace the perfectly adequate Cousins and also a pretty good keeper in Bursik (although we weren't to expect his development so rapidly perhaps). Brown, and the other loanees have been no better than average. It's also his job to coach better performances out of the ones whose levels have dipped, and that hasn't happened. As well as Clucas and McClean, Tymon's gone backwards (mainly since he did that terrible backpass), and Chester and Batth have always got a calamity in them. How did Chester not simply tap that ball in last night btw? Allen has returned less of a player than he was on the whole.
On the plus side we have Souttar, and Powell, who have bloomed, and the intermittent input from Fletcher (who would have surely fired us out of danger earlier last season). Bursik and Collins have been blooded, and we hope to see Doughty fit and firing. Campbell also went up a notch from last season in those early games.
Overall I would say the balance is still in the favour of O'Neill, the main excuse being injury to so many of last year's key performers, against the main accusations an unwillingness to be clever with subs, and an iffy record on new signings.
I would love to see us being able to pass like Brentford, Norwich and some of the other teams we've played (Barnsley FFS). Maybe next year.
We need to show, and soon, that we can get goals without the other team giving us them though...
|
|
|
Post by crouchpotato1 on Mar 4, 2021 13:41:40 GMT
In the last 5 games weve given every team a game with the exception of Barnsley.I agree that record is dreadful but changing the manager would be a massive massive mistake Where did I say I wanted a change of manager? You didn’t but plenty have and if the run continues you’ll be joining them by the looks of it
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 4, 2021 13:42:17 GMT
In the last 5 games weve given every team a game with the exception of Barnsley.I agree that record is dreadful but changing the manager would be a massive massive mistake Where did I say I wanted a change of manager? It seems impossible for people to separate questioning the approach and calling for his head mate.
|
|
|
Post by werrington on Mar 4, 2021 13:47:08 GMT
Where did I say I wanted a change of manager? You didn’t but plenty have and if the run continues you’ll be joining them by the looks of it Eh?.....fuck me I give up
|
|
|
Post by davejohnno1 on Mar 4, 2021 14:12:08 GMT
I'm the wrong person to ask because I think we are absolutely toss. I've thought that for ages and I think that now. We've spunked millions of pounds away on absolute shit and now the current manager is being forced to shop among the bargain basement. He's got to unearth a gem or gamble on ageing senior players. I don't really judge us on anything. I accept that we are shit. I don't see it being any better until our best players, the ones who can mask the deficiencies of the others, are fully fit and as such, my expectations are practically zero. Most teams in this league are the same. Norwich have their Danny Batth's but their good players mask the shortcomings of the rest at this level. Grant Handley, for example, is absolutely toss and if he were a mainstay of our team, you'd be devastated. The best teams have an xfactor or 2 that mask the short-comings of the rest of the team. We have 2 and half and 1 and half have been injured for much of the season. Campbell, Powell and Fletcher are our xfactor but the problem is they need each other. I don't think we were 2nd best last night at all. We all know our shortcomings but we more than matched them and bettered them in many instances. I thought we didn't deserve to lose but the performance was, at the absolute best, patchy and we're capable of better even with the limits of the squad we've got. I disagree. Who have we got that is capable of producing better than what they produced last night?
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 4, 2021 14:20:18 GMT
I thought we didn't deserve to lose but the performance was, at the absolute best, patchy and we're capable of better even with the limits of the squad we've got. I disagree. Who have we got that is capable of producing better than what they produced last night? You think last night was our performance of the season sans Campbell then Dave? That's literally the best team and performance we're capable of putting out? I wouldn't have Allen and Mikel in midfield, as I've said before it should be Cousins plus one for me. Didn't see a need to start with the back three and though we started well we soon had similar problems to the ones we had at Barnsley second half - no protection for the wing backs and little capability to cross the halfway line. I'd have started with Clarke in the system we started the second half with.
|
|
|
Post by davejohnno1 on Mar 4, 2021 14:27:38 GMT
I disagree. Who have we got that is capable of producing better than what they produced last night? You think last night was our performance of the season sans Campbell then Dave? That's literally the best team and performance we're capable of putting out? I wouldn't have Allen and Mikel in midfield, as I've said before it should be Cousins plus one for me. Didn't see a need to start with the back three and though we started well we soon had similar problems to the ones we had at Barnsley second half - no protection for the wing backs and little capability to cross the halfway line. I'd have started with Clarke in the system we started the second half with. You were critical of 1st half for being same as 1st half though? We were 3 at the back to match them up. I hate 3 at the back. Cousins and Thompson instead of Allen and Mikel I agree would be preferable but its preferable for energy than quality. In terms of scrappiness, nothing changes. Campbell, Clucas and McLean all make us slightly better and Collins does also. Irrespective of system and line up any 11 we field is hugely limited. Clarke was decent yesterday but what did he actually do that was really positive?
|
|
|
Post by zerps on Mar 4, 2021 14:31:22 GMT
Stalls set out. When you see who’s posted you know which type of game they saw. Yeah, we won the world cup when your name pops up.
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 4, 2021 14:32:54 GMT
You think last night was our performance of the season sans Campbell then Dave? That's literally the best team and performance we're capable of putting out? I wouldn't have Allen and Mikel in midfield, as I've said before it should be Cousins plus one for me. Didn't see a need to start with the back three and though we started well we soon had similar problems to the ones we had at Barnsley second half - no protection for the wing backs and little capability to cross the halfway line. I'd have started with Clarke in the system we started the second half with. You were critical of 1st half for being same as 1st half though? We were 3 at the back to match them up. I hate 3 at the back. Cousins and Thompson instead of Allen and Mikel I agree would be preferable but its preferable for energy than quality. In terms of scrappiness, nothing changes. Campbell, Clucas and McLean all make us slightly better and Collins does also. Our good spell in the second half, relatively brief though it was, was better and longer than that in the first half. Energy and structure in a midfield that isn't shagged after an hour? Yeah, sign me up for that. I don't think there's any law that says you have to match up with a team that plays three at the back, do you? The change to a back four at the start of the second half completely threw them.
|
|
|
Post by bgreen13 on Mar 4, 2021 14:33:42 GMT
Stalls set out. When you see who’s posted you know which type of game they saw. Yeah, we won the world cup when your name pops up. Would you like to try that sentence again? Or do you actually mean it's 1966 when I post?
|
|
|
Post by davejohnno1 on Mar 4, 2021 14:44:17 GMT
You were critical of 1st half for being same as 1st half though? We were 3 at the back to match them up. I hate 3 at the back. Cousins and Thompson instead of Allen and Mikel I agree would be preferable but its preferable for energy than quality. In terms of scrappiness, nothing changes. Campbell, Clucas and McLean all make us slightly better and Collins does also. Our good spell in the second half, relatively brief though it was, was better and longer than that in the first half. Energy and structure in a midfield that isn't shagged after an hour? Yeah, sign me up for that. I don't think there's any law that says you have to match up with a team that plays three at the back, do you? The change to a back four at the start of the second half completely threw them. Pick your best side then, with the players we'll have available and I'll rip it apart for you. Whatever it is it will still be hugely limited, massively frustrating and devoid of any real quality outside of Nick Powell.
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 4, 2021 14:50:42 GMT
Our good spell in the second half, relatively brief though it was, was better and longer than that in the first half. Energy and structure in a midfield that isn't shagged after an hour? Yeah, sign me up for that. I don't think there's any law that says you have to match up with a team that plays three at the back, do you? The change to a back four at the start of the second half completely threw them. Pick your best side then, with the players we'll have available and I'll rip it apart for you. Whatever it is it will still be hugely limited, massively frustrating and devoid of any real quality outside of Nick Powell. You're creating a straw man Dave, I'm not claiming we're world beaters or that the manager doesn't have his work cut out with this bunch. I do think things don't have to be so negative and listless and that his game management continues to leave something to be desired. Since you asked though, of the players currently available: Davies Smith Souttar Chester RND Cousins Thompson Clarke Powell Brown Fletcher
|
|
|
Post by pavel on Mar 4, 2021 14:53:10 GMT
I thought we did that last night. For large chunks of the game, Gunn never touched the ball. First 15 mins then Swansea sussed it then bossed the next 30 Second half and with a forced change at ht ( otherwise it wouldn’t of happened) we again bossed 15 mins before Swansea changed and bossed the next 30 It’s poor fayre mate and easy to play against It is poor fayre and so predictable, time and time agin I've seen us have little periods of ascendancy and time and time again I've seen the opposition players and manager respond tactically and boss the rest of the game or halves of the game. The problem is our players and manager don't seem to respond at all tactically or even at times physically and the games slip predictably away from us. When we do make changes that are not "enforced" they are just like for like, rarely a change in tactics or shape and they don't affect the game or result. Changes are made too late and on the rare time tactics are changed it seems to be panic stations. MON seems stuck in a rut as deep as the players at the moment and his insistence on playing Allen and Mikel together is unfathomable and it's unfathomable he keeps them both on the pitch so long. For a team that doesn't play the possession game where for large portions of the game where we are chasing the ball it is totally the wrong midfield, they just don't have the legs for it and certainly not for 90 minutes. MON did wonders last year but you have to question his judgement at the moment at the very least, will he change, I hope so but I don't hold out much hope.
|
|
|
Post by gingerninja on Mar 4, 2021 14:53:29 GMT
Saturday could be a very tricky game, shouldn't be on paper, but they will make it very difficult. We aren't great when teams sit deep and don't really have the guile to break them down, if Powell isn't fit, then that adds to the problem.. they could out bully our centre halves, those calling for I 23 players to step up, the next 3 games won't be that time. 3 big physical sides..
|
|
|
Post by tommycarlsberg on Mar 4, 2021 14:54:39 GMT
I'll have a guess at the answer. Their league position indicates that they are a good side at this level? We dropped at the same time, but we are 5 years away and need transition where swans are already there, im sorry but this team is still Under performing, like the sky pundit said. PPG last season MON was a promotion side, this season after adding players he’s midtable / lower Who gives a toss about what those Sky pundits? Having to listen to their cliches twice a week is much worse than the football. Joe Allen and his passing range.
|
|
|
Post by tommycarlsberg on Mar 4, 2021 14:56:01 GMT
1) not a chance 2) mid table with a bad window, play offs with a good one 3) that would be shit yes and if it carries on next season then there’s decisions to be made I think there's plenty to worry about mate. You started a thread a few months ago saying that you thought we had a good team but yet here we are, yet again, fielding a shocking midfield ... if Joe Allen starts against Wycombe, then red flags should be going up everywhere over the manager's ability to be objective about his playing staff. We really are a side that struggles to win matches and when that's the case, it doesn't take a whole lot of variance (tonight's penalty being a good example) to turn a few of those draws into defeats and we could be staring at another relegation battle. Very true about Allen and if he does start there needs to be a valid explanation with injuries.
|
|
|
Post by zerps on Mar 4, 2021 14:57:31 GMT
Yeah, we won the world cup when your name pops up. Would you like to try that sentence again? Or do you actually mean it's 1966 when I post? What’s wrong with the sentence? And you believe that Stoke won the world cup in 1966?
|
|
|
Post by davejohnno1 on Mar 4, 2021 15:01:34 GMT
Pick your best side then, with the players we'll have available and I'll rip it apart for you. Whatever it is it will still be hugely limited, massively frustrating and devoid of any real quality outside of Nick Powell. You're creating a straw man Dave, I'm not claiming we're world beaters or that the manager doesn't have his work cut out with this bunch. I do think things don't have to be so negative and listless and that his game management continues to leave something to be desired. Since you asked though, of the players currently available: Davies Smith Souttar Chester RND Cousins Thompson Clarke Powell Brown Fletcher Everything is a straw man argument if it doesn't agree with your tactical genius though. It's an accusation you throw around regularly. Davies (he wouldn't have had any impact on last nights game) Smith (He played and is generally crap) Souttar (He played and clumsily contributed to opening goal) Chester (He played and is useless in the air) RND (he played and isn't as good as Fox. He's rash and stupid) Cousins (I love Cousins but he gives us nothing in terms of game control and but does give us energy. He should start I agree but he's no game changer) Thompson (played lots of games and offered very little. Changes nothing) Clarke (had his best game for us last night and still did nothing positive of any note. Created no chances, didn't beat the full-back once) Powell (Best player in the team and nursing a groin injury) Brown (ha ha. He's wank according to absolutely everyone. Give him the ball and he'll fall over it or miscontrol it) Fletcher (Class player but not fit. Played full 90 minutes yesterday. Changes nothing) You see where I'm going with this. The players that improve us significantly are not available. Your preferred team is no better than the team that finished yesterday and no more likely to play well than the 11 that started the game. We are absolutely useless without our better players to mask the inadequacies of the rest of them. The goalkeeper thing is getting right on my tits as well. Gunn has done little wrong and Davies absolutely does not improve things. Nor does Bursik. They are all much of a muchness. I'll take the straw man argument and throw it back at you. You are clutching at straws thinking any of your preferred 11 improve us one iota compared with what we saw last night. The only player we have who isn't playing but should be is Cousins and you and many others thought he was shit a few short months ago. As ever, we'll have to agree to differ. We rarely if ever agree on matters Stoke City. Long may that continue.
|
|
|
Post by gingerninja on Mar 4, 2021 15:14:49 GMT
When will other managers/pundit stop saying we have one of the strongest squads in the division, clearly we haven't!!!!.
|
|