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Post by wuzza on Oct 8, 2022 9:10:10 GMT
He couldn’t stay fit and wasn’t really adapting to the change in style. Leicester’s style suited him better and he did brilliantly there. Sometimes a player doesn’t fit your system and thrives elsewhere. The path we were on was improving our league position and playing more enterprising stuff. The decline came years after he left and can’t really be blamed on him leaving. The rewriting of history continues unabated on here His last game for us was v Wrexham in the FA cup and he was abysmal What people also forget whilst they are slaughtering Hughes was the hero they are lauding played him at right back to find a starting place for Woodgate The other side of the history agument was that he went on to show he was extremely good at his job.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Oct 8, 2022 9:14:07 GMT
The rewriting of history continues unabated on here His last game for us was v Wrexham in the FA cup and he was abysmal What people also forget whilst they are slaughtering Hughes was the hero they are lauding played him at right back to find a starting place for Woodgate The other side of the history agument was that he went on to show he was extremely good at his job. In a different system that suited him better though mate. The assumption he’d have continued to do the same for us completely ignores that his performances for us hadn’t been great at first under Hughes (Ryan conversely was excellent) and we were playing a higher line with a bit more being asked of the centre backs on the ball.
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Post by wuzza on Oct 8, 2022 9:16:20 GMT
Arguing it wouldn’t be better to have Huth in the building doesn’t do it for me. Any system that doesn’t need a strong centre back that imposes himself on the opposition is flawed in my book. The path I am referring to is a recruitment policy that after a few early ‘hits’ completely bombed and set us on the road to 5 years of torture. What do you mean by ‘in the building’ though? He wanted to play, he wasn’t playing well under Hughes, then he got injured. If it was so ‘flawed’ why did it achieve higher league placings than the one that replaced it? Huth leaving in and of itself was nothing to do with that path. The recruitment policy tanking absolutely was a huge problem ultimately but that’s unrelated to the Huth situation. In my book it achieved higher placings by good management in taking the strength we had and adding the likes of Arnie who gave the cutting edge. Unless you are a Man City who don’t let the opposition have the ball for more than about 50 seconds a game this ball playing centre back stuff is a complete non starter. Defenders who can defend and let the others create.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Oct 8, 2022 9:21:54 GMT
What do you mean by ‘in the building’ though? He wanted to play, he wasn’t playing well under Hughes, then he got injured. If it was so ‘flawed’ why did it achieve higher league placings than the one that replaced it? Huth leaving in and of itself was nothing to do with that path. The recruitment policy tanking absolutely was a huge problem ultimately but that’s unrelated to the Huth situation. In my book it achieved higher placings by good management in taking the strength we had and adding the likes of Arnie who gave the cutting edge. Unless you are a Man City who don’t let the opposition have the ball for more than about 50 seconds a game this ball playing centre back stuff is a complete non starter. Defenders who can defend and let the others create. I’d say ‘reinvigorate’ the strength we had (which had started to seep away a bit) but I agree - the point being that we weren’t unduly affected by Huth’s departure. Can’t agree about ball playing centre halves, they’re the norm up and down the Premier League now and the better clubs in this division too. We’ve suffered for not having Souttar’s ability in that respect too.
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Post by wuzza on Oct 8, 2022 9:26:03 GMT
In my book it achieved higher placings by good management in taking the strength we had and adding the likes of Arnie who gave the cutting edge. Unless you are a Man City who don’t let the opposition have the ball for more than about 50 seconds a game this ball playing centre back stuff is a complete non starter. Defenders who can defend and let the others create. I’d say ‘reinvigorate’ the strength we had (which had started to seep away a bit) but I agree - the point being that we weren’t unduly affected by Huth’s departure. Can’t agree about ball playing centre halves, they’re the norm up and down the Premier League now and the better clubs in this division too. We’ve suffered for not having Souttar’s ability in that respect too. To me the job you are looking for the centre back to do there can be and was accomplished far better by Nzonzi who could pick the ball up deep. I also suggest that when things started to go awry we would have been in a far better position to steady the ship if Huth had still been around.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Oct 8, 2022 9:31:45 GMT
I’d say ‘reinvigorate’ the strength we had (which had started to seep away a bit) but I agree - the point being that we weren’t unduly affected by Huth’s departure. Can’t agree about ball playing centre halves, they’re the norm up and down the Premier League now and the better clubs in this division too. We’ve suffered for not having Souttar’s ability in that respect too. To me the job you are looking for the centre back to do there can be and was accomplished far better by Nzonzi who could pick the ball up deep. I also suggest that when things started to go awry we would have been in a far better position to steady the ship if Huth had still been around. Ryan and Nzonzi seemed to co-exist fine though didn’t they? It wasn’t an issue. For Huth to still be around you need to play him every week though and I’m not sure you could play the way Hughes wanted to with him as part of it. Moreover, by the time things really started to go awry it was 3-4 years later and he was barely playing for Leicester by that point. His last league start for us came in 2013, we were relegated in 2018. It’s like blaming the 1998 relegation on Steino being sold.
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Post by wuzza on Oct 8, 2022 9:53:50 GMT
To me the job you are looking for the centre back to do there can be and was accomplished far better by Nzonzi who could pick the ball up deep. I also suggest that when things started to go awry we would have been in a far better position to steady the ship if Huth had still been around. Ryan and Nzonzi seemed to co-exist fine though didn’t they? It wasn’t an issue. For Huth to still be around you need to play him every week though and I’m not sure you could play the way Hughes wanted to with him as part of it. Moreover, by the time things really started to go awry it was 3-4 years later and he was barely playing for Leicester by that point. His last league start for us came in 2013, we were relegated in 2018. It’s like blaming the 1998 relegation on Steino being sold. It’s probably (almost certainly) me but I never noticed the basics of Ryan’s game changing all that dramatically but I certainly think if a character such as Huth had been on the books some of our weaknesses wouldn’t have been allowed to fester in the way they did with the inevitable conclusion.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Oct 8, 2022 10:25:21 GMT
Ryan and Nzonzi seemed to co-exist fine though didn’t they? It wasn’t an issue. For Huth to still be around you need to play him every week though and I’m not sure you could play the way Hughes wanted to with him as part of it. Moreover, by the time things really started to go awry it was 3-4 years later and he was barely playing for Leicester by that point. His last league start for us came in 2013, we were relegated in 2018. It’s like blaming the 1998 relegation on Steino being sold. It’s probably (almost certainly) me but I never noticed the basics of Ryan’s game changing all that dramatically but I certainly think if a character such as Huth had been on the books some of our weaknesses wouldn’t have been allowed to fester in the way they did with the inevitable conclusion. We weren’t in a position to ‘keep him on the books’ if he wasn’t going to be playing regularly though. I think we really saw the mettle of Ryan as a defender in that first post-Pulis season as there wasn’t quite a back eight in the same way, we were playing a higher line and you could really see how good his positioning and organising were. He was better on the ball than he got credit for and could ping some really good long passes up to the forwards - remember one game against Everton (I think?) where he played a brilliant ball forward that ended up helping win us a penalty that won us the game.
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Post by nott1 on Oct 8, 2022 10:34:12 GMT
Are people on here really trashing Huth?
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Post by wuzza on Oct 8, 2022 10:37:41 GMT
It’s probably (almost certainly) me but I never noticed the basics of Ryan’s game changing all that dramatically but I certainly think if a character such as Huth had been on the books some of our weaknesses wouldn’t have been allowed to fester in the way they did with the inevitable conclusion. We weren’t in a position to ‘keep him on the books’ if he wasn’t going to be playing regularly though. I think we really saw the mettle of Ryan as a defender in that first post-Pulis season as there wasn’t quite a back eight in the same way, we were playing a higher line and you could really see how good his positioning and organising were. He was better on the ball than he got credit for and could ping some really good long passes up to the forwards - remember one game against Everton (I think?) where he played a brilliant ball forward that ended up helping win us a penalty that won us the game. I’m struggling to remember what I had for tea last night so no I can’t really say I do 🙂 I’m sure you are right though - I may just be clinging to old ideas and principles but I just know when Ryan and Huth were at the back I felt a sense of security that I have very rarely experienced before or after. Bottom line though a good player and great signing for where we were at the time.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Oct 8, 2022 10:37:41 GMT
Are people on here really trashing Huth? No, why?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Oct 8, 2022 10:39:22 GMT
We weren’t in a position to ‘keep him on the books’ if he wasn’t going to be playing regularly though. I think we really saw the mettle of Ryan as a defender in that first post-Pulis season as there wasn’t quite a back eight in the same way, we were playing a higher line and you could really see how good his positioning and organising were. He was better on the ball than he got credit for and could ping some really good long passes up to the forwards - remember one game against Everton (I think?) where he played a brilliant ball forward that ended up helping win us a penalty that won us the game. I’m struggling to remember what I had for tea last night so no I can’t really say I do 🙂 I’m sure you are right though - I may just be clinging to old ideas and principles but I just know when Ryan and Huth were at the back I felt a sense of security that I have very rarely experienced before or after. Bottom line though a good player and great signing for where we were at the time. They were a tremendous pairing but we were secure back then as much because defending was the number one priority for everyone as anything else, and that was starting to go stale as an approach.
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Post by iglugluk on Oct 8, 2022 10:43:17 GMT
I thought at the time it happened it was a mistake and was of the opinion there was a personality clash at the root of it. There were reports in the media that added substance to that view. Losing him didn't adversely affect our fortunes on an immediate level, though. We never adequately replaced him in my opinion. What a move for him though.. the best thing that happened during his UK career.
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Post by mtrstudent on Oct 8, 2022 11:58:11 GMT
I’m struggling to remember what I had for tea last night so no I can’t really say I do 🙂 I’m sure you are right though - I may just be clinging to old ideas and principles but I just know when Ryan and Huth were at the back I felt a sense of security that I have very rarely experienced before or after. Bottom line though a good player and great signing for where we were at the time. They were a tremendous pairing but we were secure back then as much because defending was the number one priority for everyone as anything else, and that was starting to go stale as an approach. I see your point here mate. Hughes couldn't rebuild a spine but by the time that was an issue, Huth was basically aged out. Emotionally I wish we'd kept him, he was brilliant.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Oct 8, 2022 12:03:47 GMT
They were a tremendous pairing but we were secure back then as much because defending was the number one priority for everyone as anything else, and that was starting to go stale as an approach. I see your point here mate. Hughes couldn't rebuild a spine but by the time that was an issue, Huth was basically aged out. Emotionally I wish we'd kept him, he was brilliant. Agree. Nzonzi going did us far more harm overall and Arnie going was one of the final nails. That said, nobody should’ve been irreplaceable and if you get the replacements right you don’t end up in that mess.
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Post by mtrstudent on Oct 8, 2022 12:27:41 GMT
I see your point here mate. Hughes couldn't rebuild a spine but by the time that was an issue, Huth was basically aged out. Emotionally I wish we'd kept him, he was brilliant. Agree. Nzonzi going did us far more harm overall and Arnie going was one of the final nails. That said, nobody should’ve been irreplaceable and if you get the replacements right you don’t end up in that mess. Dunner worry, the Imbula-Ndiaye axis will dominate the middle of the park.
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