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Post by mtrstudent on Jul 18, 2024 16:25:24 GMT
COVID would be a good excuse to step down. Although I've heard getting a new campaign together is apparently a logistical nightmare.
He saved democracy in 2020 and despite the fractured Congress his achievements for normal Americans have been really impressive.
But he should have just been a bridge. It's atrocious that he tried to hold on after 2020, and if the US falls to dictatorship he will deserve a lot of the blame. I think a lot of people who will benefit from his good legislation in future will spit on his grave because of his self centredness in holding on.
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Post by musik on Jul 18, 2024 16:25:31 GMT
What will happen with Ukraine, with Europe?
Will Biden leave, a certain sign of dementia is to refuse to do so when the time has come.
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Post by Gods on Jul 18, 2024 16:59:09 GMT
I am thinking the best Democratic strategy would be run with Biden and lose. They will lose anyway whoever they put up. It's only a 4 year term. Find a new young thruster and you are back in to campaigning in 2 years time anyway for the next election. If Trump wins do you honestly believe there will be a 2028 election that is remotely free & fair? He tried to steal the 2020 election, which was already unfairly stacked against Democrats by republican state voter suppression, but his VP and the military wouldn't back him up. Now Trump controls the supreme court and by 2028 he will control federal law enforcement and the military. He will have four years to do loyalty tests and purge those who won't obey. I don't know about that but my central point is they are losing either way with or without Biden.
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Post by mtrstudent on Jul 18, 2024 17:00:57 GMT
If Trump wins do you honestly believe there will be a 2028 election that is remotely free & fair? He tried to steal the 2020 election, which was already unfairly stacked against Democrats by republican state voter suppression, but his VP and the military wouldn't back him up. Now Trump controls the supreme court and by 2028 he will control federal law enforcement and the military. He will have four years to do loyalty tests and purge those who won't obey. I don't know about that but my central point is they are losing either way with or without Biden. I don't think they'd lose either way. If they'd prepared other candidates they'd have a way better chance. The stats site 538 who've been very reliable in the past recently had it 50:50 between Biden and Trump. Replace Biden with a strong candidate and you'd expect things to swing. A big problem is that the Democrats do suck at politics. Republicans pick a few convincing lies and just hammer those over and over again while democrats think that just because they helped people they'll get votes. They're idiots. Also elections can swing a lot in 4 months I think. And if the US wants to keep democracy they need a big swing towards Democrat voting in the next four months. Otherwise it's over IMO.
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Post by Olgrligm on Jul 18, 2024 19:41:20 GMT
I still think people are going way over the top in conflating 'being 81 and forgetting stuff because he's old' with 'late-stage dementia patient who doesn't know what day of the week it is'.
I'm not saying that he's therefore totally tip top to run a country, just that there are too many posts that make out that he's gone completely doolally and is being cruelly used as a puppet by his family. I don't see any evidence that that is at all accurate.
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Post by lordb on Jul 18, 2024 19:58:47 GMT
I still think people are going way over the top in conflating 'being 81 and forgetting stuff because he's old' with 'late-stage dementia patient who doesn't know what day of the week it is. I'm not saying that he's therefore totally tip top to run a country, just that there are too many posts that make out that he's gone completely doolally and is being cruelly used as a puppet by his family. I don't see any evidence that that is at all accurate. Late stage no However he looks ill and he's making gaffe after gaffe He should withdraw from the race
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2024 20:58:15 GMT
I don't know about that but my central point is they are losing either way with or without Biden. I don't think they'd lose either way. If they'd prepared other candidates they'd have a way better chance. The stats site 538 who've been very reliable in the past recently had it 50:50 between Biden and Trump. Replace Biden with a strong candidate and you'd expect things to swing. A big problem is that the Democrats do suck at politics. Republicans pick a few convincing lies and just hammer those over and over again while democrats think that just because they helped people they'll get votes. They're idiots. Also elections can swing a lot in 4 months I think. And if the US wants to keep democracy they need a big swing towards Democrat voting in the next four months. Otherwise it's over IMO. If more of this happens over the next couple of months: www.forbes.com/sites/caileygleeson/2024/05/29/walgreens-joins-target-amazon-walmart-in-announcing-steep-summer-price-cuts/ and particularly, if it happens for gas, then he will still have a shot.
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Post by mtrstudent on Jul 18, 2024 21:07:51 GMT
Isn't it wild how stuff that happens outside a president's control in a few months can decide elections for 4 years or more!
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Post by starkiller on Jul 18, 2024 21:17:34 GMT
Not sure whether to put this here or in clown world.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2024 21:18:39 GMT
Isn't it wild how stuff that happens outside a president's control in a few months can decide elections for 4 years or more! Yes, and no. The inflation reduction act was designed, in part, to reduce inflationary pressures. Oil companies have also been making a killing under Biden, who does have power to fight against that kind of profiteering if he wanted to.
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Post by wannabee on Jul 18, 2024 21:31:39 GMT
COVID would be a good excuse to step down. Although I've heard getting a new campaign together is apparently a logistical nightmare. He saved democracy in 2020 and despite the fractured Congress his achievements for normal Americans have been really impressive. But he should have just been a bridge. It's atrocious that he tried to hold on after 2020, and if the US falls to dictatorship he will deserve a lot of the blame. I think a lot of people who will benefit from his good legislation in future will spit on his grave because of his self centredness in holding on. Starmer won a snap Election in a six weeks Campaign Macron didn't lose a snap Election Campaign in three weeks The US long drawn out two year Campaign is designed for the Networks that very few voters pay any attention to. Its just attrictional. Perceptions are difficult to shift and the perception of those not yet committed is Biden is not up to the Job, its not what's happening now but what might happen in the next four years Harris is not a strong Candidate but a short slick negative Campaign offering an alternative to Trump might be effective. A charismatic non Politico as running mate would be a bonus. Can the Democrats get their shit together.... not sure.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 18, 2024 22:03:33 GMT
I am thinking the best Democratic strategy would be run with Biden and lose. They will lose anyway whoever they put up. It's only a 4 year term. Find a new young thruster and you are back in to campaigning in 2 years time anyway for the next election. If Trump wins do you honestly believe there will be a 2028 election that is remotely free & fair? He tried to steal the 2020 election, which was already unfairly stacked against Democrats by republican state voter suppression, but his VP and the military wouldn't back him up. Now Trump controls the supreme court and by 2028 he will control federal law enforcement and the military. He will have four years to do loyalty tests and purge those who won't obey. I'm glad you said it. If Trump wins, we won't see free and fair elections until he is forcibly removed from office.
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Post by Gods on Jul 18, 2024 22:17:42 GMT
When Biden steps down from the presidential race should he also stand down as president?
The argument goes if he's not fit to run he's not fit to be President.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 18, 2024 22:21:59 GMT
When Biden steps down from the presidential race should he also stand down as president? The argument goes if he's not fit to run he's not fit to be President. Think that is what will happen mate. Harris will take over the reigns now due to Biden being advised by the doctors to step down.
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Post by Gods on Jul 18, 2024 22:24:32 GMT
When Biden steps down from the presidential race should he also stand down as president? The argument goes if he's not fit to run he's not fit to be President. Think that is what will happen mate. Harris will take over the reigns now due to Biden being advised by the doctors to step down. Do you think the Democrats can win Paul? With any candidate I mean. My sense is they are done, Americans have made up their minds.
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Post by mtrstudent on Jul 18, 2024 22:24:42 GMT
When Biden steps down from the presidential race should he also stand down as president? The argument goes if he's not fit to run he's not fit to be President. I think it depends. You might be fit to be president for 5 months, but not for 4.5 years right?
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Post by mtrstudent on Jul 18, 2024 22:28:12 GMT
Think that is what will happen mate. Harris will take over the reigns now due to Biden being advised by the doctors to step down. Do you think the Democrats can win Paul? With any candidate I mean. My sense is they are done, Americans have made up their minds. I think so. Current polling has generic Democrats up by 1% versus Republicans link, and that's with them being dragged down by an unpopular Biden. If you ask people about policies, they generally support the Democratic policies over Republican ones. Republicans more consistently lie about every major topic, which is really effective for their branding though. If democrats were able to market their successes they'd be more popular I reckon. Loads of things could happen. I think there's a good number whose vote could switch in 4 months. People forget quickly. Remember when trump boasted about his sexual assaults on tape weeks before the 2016 election and everyone thought he was done for? His numbers recovered within weeks once republicans made it clear that they support sexual assault and made it normal to get over it.
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Post by Gods on Jul 18, 2024 22:29:02 GMT
When Biden steps down from the presidential race should he also stand down as president? The argument goes if he's not fit to run he's not fit to be President. I think it depends. You might be fit to be president for 5 months, but not for 4.5 years right? Yeah, I suppose it depends on how quickly the dementia or Parkinsons or whatever it is overwhelms him. I must admit he looks done to me. I've seen this kind of onset close up more than once. It's absolutely brutal and unforgiving.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 18, 2024 22:32:47 GMT
Think that is what will happen mate. Harris will take over the reigns now due to Biden being advised by the doctors to step down. Do you think the Democrats can win Paul? With any candidate I mean. My sense is they are done, Americans have made up their minds. Unlikely. Having said that, The Washington Post published an extensive poll today, which showed that if Michelle Obama was the new leader, she would beat Trump in November. Harris is pretty much despised by everybody.
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Post by mtrstudent on Jul 18, 2024 22:40:20 GMT
Do you think the Democrats can win Paul? With any candidate I mean. My sense is they are done, Americans have made up their minds. Unlikely. Having said that, The Washington Post published an extensive poll today, which showed that if Michelle Obama was the new leader, she would beat Trump in November. Harris is pretty much despised by everybody. Hard to see Harris winning over Pennsylvania steel workers innit?
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Post by Gods on Jul 18, 2024 22:43:44 GMT
Do you think the Democrats can win Paul? With any candidate I mean. My sense is they are done, Americans have made up their minds. Unlikely. Having said that, The Washington Post published an extensive poll today, which showed that if Michelle Obama was the new leader, she would beat Trump in November. Harris is pretty much despised by everybody. Yep, but Michelle Obama didn't even want her husband to stand so I don't think that one will fly.
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Post by wagsastokie on Jul 18, 2024 22:55:15 GMT
Not sure whether to put this here or in clown world. Totally plausible Both caused by the FBI
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Post by wannabee on Jul 18, 2024 23:34:24 GMT
When Biden steps down from the presidential race should he also stand down as president? The argument goes if he's not fit to run he's not fit to be President. An excellent point which would enhance Kamila Harris's prospects of defeating Trump as the incumbent President Good to see you're on board
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Post by foster on Jul 19, 2024 5:52:35 GMT
Don't think Trump will win tbh.
They’re getting all the media attention but not for the right reasons. Most Americans can't seriously be that thick to vote for a party that talks about the US flag changing into the shape of an angel, or wears plasters on their ears, etc.
It's pure cringe.
Biden will step down and the Democrats will rally behind Harris.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2024 11:53:38 GMT
Don't think Trump will win tbh. They’re getting all the media attention but not for the right reasons. Most Americans can't seriously be that thick to vote for a party that talks about the US flag changing into the shape of an angel, or wears plasters on their ears, etc. It's pure cringe. Biden will step down and the Democrats will rally behind Harris. Trump lost the last election as much as Biden won it. People came out to vote against Trump and were okay with Biden because he still was able to debate etc. I don’t think Biden will step down. I think that those people that voted against Trump will suffer from recency bias and will not be as motivated to vote again. Trump will win by default. There’s not a huge amount of difference between moderate Republicans and moderate Democrats. One believes that economic growth can only be driven by tax breaks. The other believes that increasing tax to pay for new infrastructure is the only way forwards. You need both regularly in power to keep the country ticking. The biggest differences are in abortion and gun control. It used to also include immigration but the Republicans have shown recently how little they actually care about that.
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Post by swampmongrel on Jul 19, 2024 18:01:04 GMT
I don't know about that but my central point is they are losing either way with or without Biden. I don't think they'd lose either way. If they'd prepared other candidates they'd have a way better chance. The stats site 538 who've been very reliable in the past recently had it 50:50 between Biden and Trump. Replace Biden with a strong candidate and you'd expect things to swing. A big problem is that the Democrats do suck at politics. Republicans pick a few convincing lies and just hammer those over and over again while democrats think that just because they helped people they'll get votes. They're idiots. Also elections can swing a lot in 4 months I think. And if the US wants to keep democracy they need a big swing towards Democrat voting in the next four months. Otherwise it's over IMO. You may already know this but the fivethirtyeight model is actually different this year since the founder of the site left. He’s now running his own model which is basically his original model on his own website (Silver Bulletin). He has Trump as reasonably heavy favourite at 70% (or something like that) but also says that his own model could be underestimating that given that Biden doesn’t seem to be able to campaign like a normal candidate (so difficult to model statistically).
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Post by fullmetaljacket on Jul 20, 2024 11:05:00 GMT
Surely just a question of when not if he stands down.
He could fall on his sword, doing what is best for USA etc and they'd lap it up wouldn't they?
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 20, 2024 13:36:48 GMT
Surely just a question of when not if he stands down. He could fall on his sword, doing what is best for USA etc and they'd lap it up wouldn't they? He's got to go, surely. Why not use this latest bout of Covid as the perfect excuse, if he needs one? Interested to see who'd step up as the Democrat nomination and what that'd do to the race. Whoever it was, I think you'd soon see Trump snap out of his conciliatory mode.
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Post by theoptimist on Jul 21, 2024 17:56:41 GMT
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Post by toppercorner on Jul 21, 2024 17:59:38 GMT
simply not in a fit state to be leader of the freeworld. I do wonder who they'll get in?
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