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Post by colnepotter on Aug 22, 2020 16:03:26 GMT
What the fuck are you wittering on about? What have Frank Lampard and Steven Gerrard got to do with this chap we've just appointed? They're mangers and we've got one of those. Are you suggesting that we should have appointed someone who was recently an elite level player into this role? You're all over the shop pal 😂 I am saying TS wants a total fall guy with no friends in the media ,and no reputation in the world of football . So that if it goes wrong ,he can quietly get rid of them Obviously ,he wouldn't get that ,with a name like Gerrard or lampard ,who if it went wrong would happily go on football focus and say why it went wrong TS absolutely does not want that ,he wants ' under the radar ' And he has appointed the perfect fall guy ( again) I do love it when you get a half wit coming on here just making stuff up. Reminds me of those old fairground attractions that have long since been banned....
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Post by tachyon on Aug 22, 2020 16:10:07 GMT
It serves Brentford quite well with their moneyball approach It does but I’m sure it’s more than that. It’s the whole using that as a stand-alone and XG is just nonsense. How do you think xG is used within the game?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2020 16:39:39 GMT
I am saying TS wants a total fall guy with no friends in the media ,and no reputation in the world of football . So that if it goes wrong ,he can quietly get rid of them Obviously ,he wouldn't get that ,with a name like Gerrard or lampard ,who if it went wrong would happily go on football focus and say why it went wrong TS absolutely does not want that ,he wants ' under the radar ' And he has appointed the perfect fall guy ( again) I do love it when you get a half wit coming on here just making stuff up. Reminds me of those old fairground attractions that have long since been banned.... 3 years ago Leeds utd , bought in Victor orta ,former head of recruitment at Sevilla ,zenit st Petersburg and Middlesbrough as head of recruitment , shortly after biesla joined . And just this year ,three years later , they have got promoted and gone up as champions. Stoke have done the opposite of Leeds and gone for a relatively unknown rookie. Your confident prediction that Stoke have called it right , may well be true ? We will no more by this time next year ? But I wouldn't be overly confident if I were you . I very much hope I am wrong ,but perhaps in 12 months time , Leeds way of doing things will look better than ours ? Hope to be proved wrong, but either way this time next year , we will know a lot more than we know now.
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Post by DC1863 on Aug 22, 2020 16:40:11 GMT
It does but I’m sure it’s more than that. It’s the whole using that as a stand-alone and XG is just nonsense. How do you think xG is used within the game? Just to hack this comment mate, can you recommend any good football analytics to follow on twitter?
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Post by dirtclod on Aug 22, 2020 17:01:38 GMT
Potterpaul said several pages ago that since he's young, he'll hopefully seek to bring the average age of the squad down. Obviously we need gazelles with rabies, (And one very ill-tempered Hyena on the back line) not a squad overburdened with old, slow, entitled crankpots yelling "You kids get off my lawn!"
As Wakefieldstokie's pointed out - the club hasn't had a head of recruitment since Feb. and some of those signings were arguably better than when we had one. (Wasn't perfect, but No Imbulas that I saw) I just hope that they aren't letting JC get involved in this.... in ANY capacity. I still cringe just thinking of that video...
So I'm trying to be optimistic that this guy will add something positive and they'll keep JC away from it. We won't know for sure until they are here, so I also agree with keeping the Boothen Inquisition and Bayern's knives on speed-dial just in case. Here in the States, franchises hire recruiters with proven track-records of successes. But they have bloated budgets (Like the Bin-Dippers, Citeh and Manure) they can afford to have a few turds in the food-chain. And... as Bayern pointed out: (Even with big budgets) Data doesn't tell the whole story. Surely...they have seen some positive "proof" in the effectiveness of this new guy?
I think at least part of that "proof" may be what Harlequin said - they saw that he did well with free-transfers and loans at Millwall and Stoke needs to do the same with this chronic shit-storm they call Financial "Fair" Play looming.
After reading more -seems like the Millwall fans aren't too sad to see him go... that's not very comforting
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Aug 22, 2020 17:02:47 GMT
I've no idea whether this is the right appointment or not, and I'd respectfully suggest that neither have any of the other posters who've pronounced on it on this thread. None of have seen his application and his skill set or that of the other candidates or his references or were present at his interview. Neither do we have any real understanding of the proposed respective roles of himself and the manager in recruitment or MON's role in making the appointment. In other words we are all in a very poor position, to put it mildly, to make a judgement.
It's certainly unusual in football for someone of his age to get a position like this, but, although that's very interesting, it certainly doesn't in itself mean it's a poor appointment.
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Post by superjonscape on Aug 22, 2020 17:08:35 GMT
Also for all the talk about his age and experience, he has more experience than MON working in the Football League transfer market. Not saying that means anything at all, just seems harsh to have a go at him for his age when the above is true. All we can do is wait and see. My mates mums taxi has more experience than MON in the football league transfer market. She's picked a few up from Manchester Airport. That's not a great leveller, it shows how amateur & inexperienced scfc are. Luckily we have tony scholes to call upon, at least he has been there and messed it all up.. phew
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Post by lordb on Aug 22, 2020 17:12:28 GMT
Agreed. No club lower than a top 6 Premier League club is going to appoint even a moderately well known "name" as Head of Recruitment - let alone someone with such a high profile in the game as Lampard and Gerrard. Even by the normal Oatcake standards of twisting the facts to fit an agenda, this poster takes the biscuit! I was actually talking about the general ethos of the club But the facts are Leeds ,wba and Fulham were the three promoted clubs . Who bought in the expertise of Marcelo biesla ,slaven billic and Scott Parker I think those three are big names by championship standards and their name helped player recruitment Derby have tried and failed to boost their promotion chances with big names like Frank lampard and Wayne Rooney Stoke haven't gone down that route , obviously But I don't think that is because it is good for a club in the championship , to not be associated with names like biesla ,billic ,Parker , lampard and Rooney I think for some reason ,the board think it suits them to avoid people like that . Fair enough ,it's their club ,but it doesn't mean they are right. Bielsa Bilic and Parker were all appointed as managers not recruitment bods Are you saying Oneill out and appoint a big name instead? Yeah let's get John Terry in, he's bound to be good
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Post by superjonscape on Aug 22, 2020 17:26:51 GMT
anyone know his gametag on x box, I might roll a fat one and shoot some fifa with my new homie
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Post by tachyon on Aug 22, 2020 17:49:55 GMT
How do you think xG is used within the game? Just to hack this comment mate, can you recommend any good football analytics to follow on twitter? @infogolapp Twitter account of the app. Owned by a major sportsbook & based on the statistical models of someone I know quite well ;-) @smarterscout Stats based recruitment account run by Dan Altman, Swansea's quant for a season or so. @blades_analytic Good mix of analytics/tactics/recruitment. SU fan. @jakeozz Content editor for Infogol, writes accessible analytics based game previews & predictions. SW fan. @statsbomb Data provider, rival to opta. Brash with a US ethos. @mixedknuts Ted runs Statsbomb, Arsenal fan. @drmukherjees just landed a gig at a pro club via Twitter, pretty much the career path for everyone in the field. @footballfactman Mix of old school video analysis & advanced analytics. Everton fan, currently hates them @experimental361 Ben looks at League one & two as well as the Championship & PL. We screen grabbed Bielsa nicking Ben's graphics last season :-) @basstunedtored Very readable, LFC stuff. writes for the Liv echo, underpinned by data. @graceonfootball Grace does really neat posts (1,000 words) on lots of top teams & some lesser well known ones as well. Data driven. @marktaylor0 Never heard of the guy. Claims to know everyone in football analytics. Avoid these like the plague. @whoscored @squawka Nonsense trivia.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2020 18:08:14 GMT
I've no idea whether this is the right appointment or not, and I'd respectfully suggest that neither have any of the other posters who've pronounced on it on this thread. None of have seen his application and his skill set or that of the other candidates or his references or were present at his interview. Neither do we have any real understanding of the proposed respective roles of himself and the manager in recruitment or MON's role in making the appointment. In other words we are all in a very poor position, to put it mildly, to make a judgement. It's certainly unusual in football for someone of his age to get a position like this, but, although that's very interesting, it certainly doesn't in itself mean it's a poor appointment. So the club saw fit to release to the press his third rate degree from a Polytechnic but nothing else? Not "He impressed with his knowledge of this" "He has a track record of unearthing talent" "He had an excellent knowledge of the types of players we want to sign" You don't have to read very carefully between the lines to see that there was nothing else to release.
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Post by superjonscape on Aug 22, 2020 18:17:08 GMT
I've no idea whether this is the right appointment or not, and I'd respectfully suggest that neither have any of the other posters who've pronounced on it on this thread. None of have seen his application and his skill set or that of the other candidates or his references or were present at his interview. Neither do we have any real understanding of the proposed respective roles of himself and the manager in recruitment or MON's role in making the appointment. In other words we are all in a very poor position, to put it mildly, to make a judgement. It's certainly unusual in football for someone of his age to get a position like this, but, although that's very interesting, it certainly doesn't in itself mean it's a poor appointment. So the club saw fit to release to the press his third rate degree from a Polytechnic but nothing else? Not "He impressed with his knowledge of this" "He has a track record of unearthing talent" "He had an excellent knowledge of the types of players we want to sign" You don't have to read very carefully between the lines to see that there was nothing else to release. I heard upon signing he was doing the finger pointing business at TS during the photographs 👉 . He must be the dogs
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Post by colnepotter on Aug 22, 2020 19:06:25 GMT
I do love it when you get a half wit coming on here just making stuff up. Reminds me of those old fairground attractions that have long since been banned.... 3 years ago Leeds utd , bought in Victor orta ,former head of recruitment at Sevilla ,zenit st Petersburg and Middlesbrough as head of recruitment , shortly after biesla joined . And just this year ,three years later , they have got promoted and gone up as champions. Stoke have done the opposite of Leeds and gone for a relatively unknown rookie. Your confident prediction that Stoke have called it right , may well be true ? We will no more by this time next year ? But I wouldn't be overly confident if I were you . I very much hope I am wrong ,but perhaps in 12 months time , Leeds way of doing things will look better than ours ? Hope to be proved wrong, but either way this time next year , we will know a lot more than we know now. You’re changing the subject now. In the post I picked up on, you effectively claimed to know Tony Scholes inner most thoughts. You get rumbled then come out with some middle of the road stuff, which most people would agree with (ish). Relax man and admit that Scholes has done a very good job for most of his tenure. Had a wobbly two or three years for sure, but so do most people who have been in one job a long time. Sorry to disappoint you. It’s not exactly very cool to be satisfied with the Chief Executive in the world of the key board warrior, but hey ho tell it as it is is the way I was brought up.
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Aug 22, 2020 19:23:28 GMT
I've no idea whether this is the right appointment or not, and I'd respectfully suggest that neither have any of the other posters who've pronounced on it on this thread. None of have seen his application and his skill set or that of the other candidates or his references or were present at his interview. Neither do we have any real understanding of the proposed respective roles of himself and the manager in recruitment or MON's role in making the appointment. In other words we are all in a very poor position, to put it mildly, to make a judgement. It's certainly unusual in football for someone of his age to get a position like this, but, although that's very interesting, it certainly doesn't in itself mean it's a poor appointment. So the club saw fit to release to the press his third rate degree from a Polytechnic but nothing else? Not "He impressed with his knowledge of this" "He has a track record of unearthing talent" "He had an excellent knowledge of the types of players we want to sign" You don't have to read very carefully between the lines to see that there was nothing else to release. "Third rate degree from a Polytechnic" ? As I'm sure you know Polytechnics haven't existed for years, certainly well before a 27-year could do a degree. That sounds like a piece of educational snobbery to me. Who says his degree is "third rate" ? Do you mean his grade ( do you know that ?) or the degree itself ? But, as I'm sure you will also have read, the point of the Club's reference to his degree in their release was that MON did the same degree which is an interesting snippet, not to claim that was the main reason why he got the job. All we know is that he's done the same or a very similar job at Millwall for 3 years and that at the end of the selection process the Club decided he would be a better appointment than any of the other 79 applicants. I'm not saying the Club have made the best choice from the 80. I've absolutely no basis on which to make a judgment on that, but I would respectfully suggest that neither have you.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2020 19:33:00 GMT
3 years ago Leeds utd , bought in Victor orta ,former head of recruitment at Sevilla ,zenit st Petersburg and Middlesbrough as head of recruitment , shortly after biesla joined . And just this year ,three years later , they have got promoted and gone up as champions. Stoke have done the opposite of Leeds and gone for a relatively unknown rookie. Your confident prediction that Stoke have called it right , may well be true ? We will no more by this time next year ? But I wouldn't be overly confident if I were you . I very much hope I am wrong ,but perhaps in 12 months time , Leeds way of doing things will look better than ours ? Hope to be proved wrong, but either way this time next year , we will know a lot more than we know now. You’re changing the subject now. In the post I picked up on, you effectively claimed to know Tony Scholes inner most thoughts. You get rumbled then come out with some middle of the road stuff, which most people would agree with (ish). Relax man and admit that Scholes has done a very good job for most of his tenure. Had a wobbly two or three years for sure, but so do most people who have been in one job a long time. Sorry to disappoint you. It’s not exactly very cool to be satisfied with the Chief Executive in the world of the key board warrior, but hey ho tell it as it is is the way I was brought up. I disagree , but it's cool , because I hope you are in right and I am wrong . I think he has avoided high profile names like biesla ,Victor orta , slaven billic ,Scott Parker ,Frank lampard and Wayne Rooney ,but I don't think this has made us more successful than our rivals I think he has bought in less well known people like mark Cartwright ,Paul Lambert , Gary rowett , Nathan Jones and Alex whatever is name his from Millwall . Amazing to think former leek town goalie mark Cartwright , has been arguably less successful at Stoke ,than former Sevilla, zenit st Petersburg and Middlesbrough head of recruitment , Victor orta , at Leeds But eh oh Part of me thinks , if Stoke city was bet 365 ( it isn't ) and we were run by Denise coates ( we aren't) ,then we would probably be going for the biesla's ,Victor orta's ,lampards and Rooney's of the online gambling world . Which is rather odd . But it is what it is Good luck to the new Guy and I hope for everyone's sake , he is a massive Improvement on mark Cartwright .
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Post by owdestokie2 on Aug 22, 2020 20:28:19 GMT
Job Description: Chief Executive's Fall Guy Just love this from the ”The pair will work closely together in a manager focused model - with O’Neill retaining veto on any deals”.... Cover my arse (TS) or an acknowledgement of previous failures. Me a cynic???
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Post by owdestokie2 on Aug 22, 2020 20:29:55 GMT
Let's be fair, recruiting at Millwall, on one of the smallest budgets in the league, and for 2 managers who favour very pragmatic football is not an easy gig. He must've done some things right - and the manager will always have the veto over anything. Milwlall fans, like all fans, won't really know what it is he's doing in the background. To get the job at Millwall at just 24 - and beat 80 candidates to our job at just 27 is not easy. May be worth giving him a chance? ABSOLUTELY NO WAY. THE OATCAKE HAS SPOKEN AND THIS GUY IS CLEARLY WANK AND EVERYTHING ABOUT THIS CLUB IS SHITE AND THERE ARE PLENTY OF PEOPLE ON THIS MESSAGEBOARD WHO COULD DEFINITELY DO THIS JOB DESPITE IN MOST CASES BEING UNABLE TO BOTH FORM ANY KIND OF LOGICAL ARGUMENT OR INDEED COHERENT SENTENCES. FUCK OFF WITH YOUR EVEN HANDED, PRAGMATIC APPRAISAL OF A SPECIFIC DEVELOPMENT - WE ONLY DEAL IN SNAP JUDGMENTS BASED ON HERESAY AND CONJECTURE ROUND THESE PARTS Why are you shouting?
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Post by Gods on Aug 22, 2020 20:36:30 GMT
Does anyone have the job advert for which 80 people applied?
Then we'd know what he will be doing.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 22, 2020 20:56:12 GMT
Does anyone have the job advert for which 80 people applied? Then we'd know what he will be doing. I’m sure it was flying around actually and people were taking the piss. Grapey should be able to find it
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Post by RF10 on Aug 22, 2020 21:08:08 GMT
I've never read a thread with as much drivel and knicker wetting as this one.
No one has a clue about this guys credentials and how the club claim to select him above all the other candidates. It's impossible to say if he will do well in his job at this stage but to judge him without a day in the job is madness.
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Post by danceswithclams on Aug 22, 2020 21:38:05 GMT
ABSOLUTELY NO WAY. THE OATCAKE HAS SPOKEN AND THIS GUY IS CLEARLY WANK AND EVERYTHING ABOUT THIS CLUB IS SHITE AND THERE ARE PLENTY OF PEOPLE ON THIS MESSAGEBOARD WHO COULD DEFINITELY DO THIS JOB DESPITE IN MOST CASES BEING UNABLE TO BOTH FORM ANY KIND OF LOGICAL ARGUMENT OR INDEED COHERENT SENTENCES. FUCK OFF WITH YOUR EVEN HANDED, PRAGMATIC APPRAISAL OF A SPECIFIC DEVELOPMENT - WE ONLY DEAL IN SNAP JUDGMENTS BASED ON HERESAY AND CONJECTURE ROUND THESE PARTS Why are you shouting? WHY ISN'T EVERYONE SHOUTING?
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Post by mrcoke on Aug 22, 2020 22:07:47 GMT
Time will tell whether this appointment is a good one.
Personally I have reservations about appointing a "heavyweight" to head recruitment on two grounds:
1. It may be seen as a competitor to the "manager" and undermine his position. There is no chance of this with this appointment.
2. Football is a business as much as a sport or entertainment; the end product being to win matches. It is my experience in business that they do not function/perform well when the Personnel/HR, or the Finance/Accounts functions run the business. Obviously there need to be checks and balances in the administration of an organisation, and it is reasonable to point out that had there been a truly talented heavyweight head of recruitment when Hughes was blowing away huge amounts on deadbeats, we might still be in the Prem.
To me head of recruitment covers all aspects of the club, not just transfers into the first team squad. For this guy to get such a role at such a young age he must be truly impressive.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2020 22:14:45 GMT
WHY ISN'T EVERYONE SHOUTING?
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Post by Pugsley on Aug 22, 2020 22:19:27 GMT
I am saying TS wants a total fall guy with no friends in the media ,and no reputation in the world of football . So that if it goes wrong ,he can quietly get rid of them Obviously ,he wouldn't get that ,with a name like Gerrard or lampard ,who if it went wrong would happily go on football focus and say why it went wrong TS absolutely does not want that ,he wants ' under the radar ' And he has appointed the perfect fall guy ( again) Your point is ludicrous No one of that calibre is going to take head of recruitment role at a Championship club. Gerrard has turned down the managers job at Bristol City he's not going to take a role several layers lower is he? You're dealing with idiots mate, best leave it.
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Post by Pugsley on Aug 22, 2020 22:22:09 GMT
DNA.... you're embarrassing yourself. You're embarrassing yourself praising tony scholes for having the foresight to appoint a 27 year old head of recruitment because the bar is low and then in the next sentence saying that Tony scholes has to go 😉 I have not made one single comment on how good this bloke is or in praise of Scholes for appointing him. You're making shit up trying to save face after making some of the most idiotic comments ever posted on this board.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Aug 22, 2020 22:36:30 GMT
Time will tell whether this appointment is a good one. Personally I have reservations about appointing a "heavyweight" to head recruitment on two grounds: 1. It may be seen as a competitor to the "manager" and undermine his position. There is no chance of this with this appointment. 2. Football is a business as much as a sport or entertainment; the end product being to win matches. It is my experience in business that they do not function/perform well when the Personnel/HR, or the Finance/Accounts functions run the business. Obviously there need to be checks and balances in the administration of an organisation, and it is reasonable to point out that had there been a truly talented heavyweight head of recruitment when Hughes was blowing away huge amounts on deadbeats, we might still be in the Prem. To me head of recruitment covers all aspects of the club, not just transfers into the first team squad. For this guy to get such a role at such a young age he must be truly impressive. [br Or another truly woeful appointment which to be fair wouldn’t be the first time ]
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Post by superjonscape on Aug 22, 2020 22:36:45 GMT
I've never read a thread with as much drivel and knicker wetting as this one. No one has a clue about this guys credentials and how the club claim to select him above all the other candidates. It's impossible to say if he will do well in his job at this stage but to judge him without a day in the job is madness. He's Tony's new pet puppy, I think we all know that. Really beginning to think these in office have a complextion or are complete power/control freaks, they won't hire anybody proven/from a good position with a strong opinion. Managerial appointments since Pulis suggest it also. Millwall fans really arn't bothered, some even think Rowett has sussed him out and wants his own man in. Its not something a club of this stature should be doing, ever likely we are dropping like a stone, we are so small time
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Post by superjonscape on Aug 22, 2020 22:39:37 GMT
Time will tell whether this appointment is a good one. Personally I have reservations about appointing a "heavyweight" to head recruitment on two grounds: 1. It may be seen as a competitor to the "manager" and undermine his position. There is no chance of this with this appointment. 2. Football is a business as much as a sport or entertainment; the end product being to win matches. It is my experience in business that they do not function/perform well when the Personnel/HR, or the Finance/Accounts functions run the business. Obviously there need to be checks and balances in the administration of an organisation, and it is reasonable to point out that had there been a truly talented heavyweight head of recruitment when Hughes was blowing away huge amounts on deadbeats, we might still be in the Prem. To me head of recruitment covers all aspects of the club, not just transfers into the first team squad. For this guy to get such a role at such a young age he must be truly impressive. [br Or another truly woeful appointment which to be fair wouldn’t be the first time ] It wont be the last time either
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Post by superjonscape on Aug 22, 2020 22:46:54 GMT
You're embarrassing yourself praising tony scholes for having the foresight to appoint a 27 year old head of recruitment because the bar is low and then in the next sentence saying that Tony scholes has to go 😉 I have not made one single comment on how good this bloke is or in praise of Scholes for appointing him. You're making shit up trying to save face after making some of the most idiotic comments ever posted on this board. Call them idiotic comments all you like, thats your opinion, mine is that hiring a 27 year old as a head of recruitment with no football background, no gravitas, no experience and expecting an allready novice infrastructure to be better because of this signing is small time thinking from small time thinkers. This lad will offer nothing but stats. If he's so good why has he left his home town club for Stoke, I reckon he has been told to find a new home. He's a London boy, you don't move to stoke from London for the fun of it, especially not your own town club
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Post by Pugsley on Aug 22, 2020 22:54:53 GMT
I have not made one single comment on how good this bloke is or in praise of Scholes for appointing him. You're making shit up trying to save face after making some of the most idiotic comments ever posted on this board. Call them idiotic comments all you like, thats your opinion, mine is that hiring a 27 year old as a head of recruitment with no football background, no gravitas, no experience and expecting an allready novice infrastructure to be better because of this signing is small time thinking from small time thinkers. This lad will offer nothing but stats. If he's so good why has he left his home town club for Stoke, I reckon he has been told to find a new home. He's a London boy, you don't move to stoke from London for the fun of it, especially not your own town club Really? So no one in football has ever moved out of their home town? I've no idea whether this bloke is any good or not, I just picked up on your TP comments and pointed out that they total and utter horse wank.
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