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Post by mano00001 on Jul 7, 2020 21:07:43 GMT
There not going to get points deduction! There going to win there appeal How do you know this then ? Nixon on twitter
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Post by ursemboys on Jul 7, 2020 21:10:35 GMT
How do you know this then ? Nixon on twitter So he sits on the appeals panel then does he , somehow I dont think he knows anything
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2020 21:10:40 GMT
There not going to get points deduction! There going to win there appeal How do you know this then ? He read it on Twitter.
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Post by stokeykez on Jul 7, 2020 21:13:52 GMT
It's up to Wigan to prove a case against an owner they let buy their football club, at the time all was good and everything was fine, all the EFL have done and in my opinion will do is go by the letter of the law you agree to when you enter the competition, clubs in the past have done the same and have paid the price, Wigan are no different here! Exactly, they have been played. Money changed hands for the club, the owner showed and invested funds. Just then happened that the dodgiest of dealings happened which fucked them over. Efl are not guilty, Wigan are not guilty, the points will stand as the financial consequences for litigation against efl from other clubs is staggering. Only one here guilty is the screwball who has had them over. If this keeps us up then so be it, like I've said before clubs would be queuing up to dance on the grave of stoke if it was us
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Post by stokeykez on Jul 7, 2020 21:15:03 GMT
How do you know this then ? Nixon on twitter Nixon all along has said that he has never known any club to appeal the administration's points deduction process and that football will not wait to hear what the investigation has to say.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Jul 7, 2020 21:16:16 GMT
Everyone will appeal the appeal
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Post by ursemboys on Jul 7, 2020 21:17:50 GMT
Rules are rules, they have to take the points
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Jul 7, 2020 21:24:00 GMT
Alan Nixon said this: Now I am not a QC. But there is a very key line in this that Wigan could and should be using. What creditors have NOT been paid here? If players get their wages it’s not them. Might just be a chink of daylight here. No pun intended. t.co/Zwx0euc5IwWho do we own credit too? It's a good thing because the EFL came out with a ball bag excuse that we are using funds for a unfair advantage? What unfair advantage have we done? I honestly don't think the EFL have looked into the situation at all and that is very, very scary.
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Jul 7, 2020 21:30:30 GMT
Alan Nixon said this: Now I am not a QC. But there is a very key line in this that Wigan could and should be using. What creditors have NOT been paid here? If players get their wages it’s not them. Might just be a chink of daylight here. No pun intended. t.co/Zwx0euc5IwWho do we own credit too? It's a good thing because the EFL came out with a ball bag excuse that we are using funds for a unfair advantage? What unfair advantage have we done? I honestly don't think the EFL have looked into the situation at all and that is very, very scary. They didn’t give Blackpool a points deduction despite them being in Receivership, didn’t deem it a “solvency” event at their discretion. Watch this space
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Post by mattador78 on Jul 7, 2020 21:33:21 GMT
As for the fit and proper owners test one of the blokes who sold it now owns it again 🤷♂️🤦♂️
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Post by Squeekster on Jul 7, 2020 21:38:00 GMT
Alan Nixon said this: Now I am not a QC. But there is a very key line in this that Wigan could and should be using. What creditors have NOT been paid here? If players get their wages it’s not them. Might just be a chink of daylight here. No pun intended. t.co/Zwx0euc5IwWho do we own credit too? It's a good thing because the EFL came out with a ball bag excuse that we are using funds for a unfair advantage? What unfair advantage have we done? I honestly don't think the EFL have looked into the situation at all and that is very, very scary. So if they don't owe any body anything and are paying all bills why have they gone into administration?
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Post by stokeykez on Jul 7, 2020 21:40:51 GMT
Alan Nixon said this: Now I am not a QC. But there is a very key line in this that Wigan could and should be using. What creditors have NOT been paid here? If players get their wages it’s not them. Might just be a chink of daylight here. No pun intended. t.co/Zwx0euc5IwWho do we own credit too? It's a good thing because the EFL came out with a ball bag excuse that we are using funds for a unfair advantage? What unfair advantage have we done? I honestly don't think the EFL have looked into the situation at all and that is very, very scary. So if they don't owe any body anything and are paying all bills why have they gone into administration? So their owner could allegedly win a bet on them getting relegated
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Post by Squeekster on Jul 7, 2020 21:44:22 GMT
So if they don't owe any body anything and are paying all bills why have they gone into administration? So their owner could allegedly win a bet on them getting relegated Maybe, maybe not it's irrelevant in the fact they've gone into admin.
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Post by scfcno1fan on Jul 7, 2020 21:49:14 GMT
Alan Nixon said this: Now I am not a QC. But there is a very key line in this that Wigan could and should be using. What creditors have NOT been paid here? If players get their wages it’s not them. Might just be a chink of daylight here. No pun intended. t.co/Zwx0euc5IwWho do we own credit too? It's a good thing because the EFL came out with a ball bag excuse that we are using funds for a unfair advantage? What unfair advantage have we done? I honestly don't think the EFL have looked into the situation at all and that is very, very scary. So if they don't owe any body anything and are paying all bills why have they gone into administration? This. Administration is a formal insolvency procedure. Insolvency is either when a company can’t pay their debts as and when they fall due, or they could be balance sheet insolvent (liabilities > assets). The procedure can be triggered by directors but they need to prove their insolvency. They must owe somebody something. Otherwise something has gone horribly wrong.
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Jul 7, 2020 22:05:55 GMT
So if they don't owe any body anything and are paying all bills why have they gone into administration? This. Administration is a formal insolvency procedure. Insolvency is either when a company can’t pay their debts as and when they fall due, or they could be balance sheet insolvent (liabilities > assets). The procedure can be triggered by directors but they need to prove their insolvency. They must owe somebody something. Otherwise something has gone horribly wrong. If for example the owner called in his debt (for example loans etc) and the Club was unable to repay the debt lawfully due then couldn’t the directors put the Club into administration even if they were paying every single other bill as it fell due. I’m not convinced they’ll get the deduction, the EFL seem to have discretion as demonstrated by their decision with Blackpool
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Post by ricksastokie on Jul 8, 2020 1:25:41 GMT
Surely Wigan have a case against the EFL for passing these idiots as fit and proper people to run a football club? I think almost everyone feels the fit and proper person test isn't worth the paper its written on and I wonder more widely what recompense any club has against the body that passes a person as fit and proper and then have something like this happen? No because the EFL don't really have any/little power. Why? Because the clubs voted for this. If the clubs gave the EFL the power to have a genuine fit and proper persons test (rather than the meaningless one as current) then potentially we would all be better off. But that relies entirely on clubs voting for that change. Since Wigan is still owned by the individuals that put them into administration, if they launched a case against the EFL wouldn't they in effect be arguing 'you shouldn't have allowed us idiots to take over the club because we aren't fit and proper people to own a football club'?
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Jul 8, 2020 6:54:35 GMT
No because the EFL don't really have any/little power. Why? Because the clubs voted for this. If the clubs gave the EFL the power to have a genuine fit and proper persons test (rather than the meaningless one as current) then potentially we would all be better off. But that relies entirely on clubs voting for that change. Since Wigan is still owned by the individuals that put them into administration, if they launched a case against the EFL wouldn't they in effect be arguing 'you shouldn't have allowed us idiots to take over the club because we aren't fit and proper people to own a football club'? Exactly. And ‘We’ve put ourselves into administration Even though we really shouldn’t have because we don’t actually owe anyone any money’.!!!! Complete bollocks. Wigan, it’s owners and the EFL will end up looking even bigger corrupt bellends than they already are.
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Post by flea79 on Jul 8, 2020 10:31:32 GMT
So if they don't owe any body anything and are paying all bills why have they gone into administration? This. Administration is a formal insolvency procedure. Insolvency is either when a company can’t pay their debts as and when they fall due, or they could be balance sheet insolvent (liabilities > assets). The procedure can be triggered by directors but they need to prove their insolvency. They must owe somebody something. Otherwise something has gone horribly wrong. im sure this is similar to when Lord Smurthwaite threatened Vale this time last year, if the owner pulls out funding the club becomes insolvent and its illegal to trade while insolvent hence the administrators are called in
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Jul 8, 2020 10:40:05 GMT
www.gazettelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/efl-confirm-wigan-12-point-18560305The EFL has confirmed it will issue Wigan Athletic a 12-point deduction despite talk of a possible appeal. That could offer Middlesbrough a lifeline should they finish in their current third bottom spot. Wigan automatically face punishment after the club was put into administration last week, a day after a 3-0 win over Stoke City had seemingly all-but secured their Championship status. The penalty - set in stone in EFL rules - will be imposed at the end of the season if Wigan finish outside the bottom three. If they finish a relegation spot, the penalty will be applied in League One next season. That could markedly affect the bottom of the table. Boro are currently third bottom but would escape relegation with Wigan plunged to the bottom if the sanction was applied now. Wigan supporters, local MPs and media figures have launched a petition to suggest the sanction is unfair. An appeal can be made on grounds force majeure - circumstances beyond control - but the EFL has stated in an assertive statement that Covid-19 would not meet that criteria. EFL chiefs say the new owners showed they had sufficient funds to weather the storm just a month ago. A statement said: "The League fundamentally disagrees with the comments attributed earlier today to Mr Au Yeung Wai Kay where he stated that ‘the Covid-19 pandemic has undermined the ability to fund the club'. "While Covid-19 has undoubtedly presented significant financial challenges to the professional game, evidence of the required source and sufficiency of funding to be invested in or otherwise made available to the club was provided as part of the recent change of control process. "(The Covid crisis) is more illustrative of the wider financial challenges facing EFL clubs, who, without a full and comprehensive reset of football’s finances, including how monies are distributed throughout the game, will continue to struggle to meet the demands of an outdated and unsustainable model. "In respect of the challenges at Wigan Athletic, there is clearly a number of important unanswered questions that require urgent attention and the EFL welcomes the move by administrators to launch an investigation. "The EFL will undertake a similar exercise and, should any breaches of football regulations or company law be discovered, action will be taken either by the League or the body with the relevant jurisdiction to do so." But the EFL has reiterated that a 12-point penalty is a default punishment following insolvency. It adds: "The regulation seeks to ensure a club cannot gain any advantage over other clubs by not paying its creditors in full and on time. "The EFL acknowledges it is a difficult time for any club placed into Administration but is mindful that its regulations are to be applied consistently and equally to all member clubs irrespective of the circumstances. "In the current case of Wigan Athletic, due to the club being placed into administration after the fourth Thursday in March, the sporting sanction will take affect once the final League positions are known." The club are considering an appeal to an independent panel but the doesn't hold out much hope. Joint administrator Gerald Krasner pointed out no club had ever successfully challenged the 12-point penalty for entering administration. He said the administrators were also working on a strategy to ensure the club would not be liable to a further 15-point deduction if they fail to pay creditors 25p in the pound.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2020 10:49:56 GMT
I'd be a lot happier seeing them bottom on 38 points with an asterisk next to their name.
Birmingham City-------P 41 PTS 49 -13 Huddersfield Town-----P 42 PTS 47 -14 Stoke City--------------P 41 PTS 46 -7 Charlton Athletic-------P 42 PTS 46 -8 Hull City----------------P 41 PTS 45 -16 Middlesbrough---------P 41 PTS 44 -13 _________________________________________
Barnsley---------------P 42 PTS 42 -21 Luton Town------------P 42 PTS 41 -32 Wigan Athletic**------P 41 PTS 38 -8
**12 pts deducted
But it looks to me like they're banged to rights......
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Post by wagsastokie on Jul 8, 2020 11:23:04 GMT
How do you know this then ? Nixon on twitter Well 14 points it is then
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2020 11:48:30 GMT
Rick Parry on Talksport now getting rinsed by resident sycophant Jim White.
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Post by Uncle cheese on Jul 8, 2020 12:00:13 GMT
I'd be a lot happier seeing them bottom on 38 points with an asterisk next to their name. Birmingham City-------P 41 PTS 49 -13 Huddersfield Town-----P 42 PTS 47 -14 Stoke City--------------P 41 PTS 46 -7 Charlton Athletic-------P 42 PTS 46 -8 Hull City----------------P 41 PTS 45 -16 Middlesbrough---------P 41 PTS 44 -13 _________________________________________ Barnsley---------------P 42 PTS 42 -21 Luton Town------------P 42 PTS 41 -32 Wigan Athletic**------P 41 PTS 38 -8 **12 pts deducted But it looks to me like they're banged to rights...... I thought Charlton had -10 goal difference?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2020 12:09:45 GMT
I'd be a lot happier seeing them bottom on 38 points with an asterisk next to their name. Birmingham City-------P 41 PTS 49 -13 Huddersfield Town-----P 42 PTS 47 -14 Stoke City--------------P 41 PTS 46 -7 Charlton Athletic-------P 42 PTS 46 -8 Hull City----------------P 41 PTS 45 -16 Middlesbrough---------P 41 PTS 44 -13 _________________________________________ Barnsley---------------P 42 PTS 42 -21 Luton Town------------P 42 PTS 41 -32 Wigan Athletic**------P 41 PTS 38 -8 **12 pts deducted But it looks to me like they're banged to rights...... I thought Charlton had -10 goal difference? You could be right, I just copied and pasted from the interweb. That's good then as long as we only lose to Leeds by 2 goals we stay above them......
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2020 12:18:45 GMT
I thought Charlton had -10 goal difference? You could be right, I just copied and pasted from the interweb. That's good then as long as we only lose to Leeds by 2 goals we stay above them...... Stuff that. A win takes us above Birmingham and a win against them on Sunday sees us home. Think positive. (He says, lol) Can we still reach the playoffs?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2020 12:20:15 GMT
You could be right, I just copied and pasted from the interweb. That's good then as long as we only lose to Leeds by 2 goals we stay above them...... Stuff that. A win takes us above Birmingham and a win against them on Sunday sees us home. Think positive. (He says, lol) Can we still reach the playoffs? If Wigan being deducted 12 points is guaranteed I honestly think one win will suffice. Especially if Barnsley and Wigan play out a nice 1-1 draw at the weekend......
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 8, 2020 12:31:05 GMT
With regard to the 12 point deduction, I understand why, if they're in the bottom three at the end of the season, then the deduction isn't put in place until next season, as really they wouldn't have received any punishment but why isn't the 12 point deduction put into place next season, if they stay up this season even with the deduction applied to this season?
If a team knew that a 12 point deduction wouldn't effect them much bar slipping a few places in the final table, it's much less of a deterrent than them knowing, that if they go into administration, then it will result in them starting next season with a 12 point deduction.
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Jul 8, 2020 13:25:00 GMT
www.gazettelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/efl-confirm-wigan-12-point-18560305The EFL has confirmed it will issue Wigan Athletic a 12-point deduction despite talk of a possible appeal. That could offer Middlesbrough a lifeline should they finish in their current third bottom spot. Wigan automatically face punishment after the club was put into administration last week, a day after a 3-0 win over Stoke City had seemingly all-but secured their Championship status. The penalty - set in stone in EFL rules - will be imposed at the end of the season if Wigan finish outside the bottom three. If they finish a relegation spot, the penalty will be applied in League One next season. That could markedly affect the bottom of the table. Boro are currently third bottom but would escape relegation with Wigan plunged to the bottom if the sanction was applied now. Wigan supporters, local MPs and media figures have launched a petition to suggest the sanction is unfair. An appeal can be made on grounds force majeure - circumstances beyond control - but the EFL has stated in an assertive statement that Covid-19 would not meet that criteria. EFL chiefs say the new owners showed they had sufficient funds to weather the storm just a month ago. A statement said: "The League fundamentally disagrees with the comments attributed earlier today to Mr Au Yeung Wai Kay where he stated that ‘the Covid-19 pandemic has undermined the ability to fund the club'. "While Covid-19 has undoubtedly presented significant financial challenges to the professional game, evidence of the required source and sufficiency of funding to be invested in or otherwise made available to the club was provided as part of the recent change of control process. "(The Covid crisis) is more illustrative of the wider financial challenges facing EFL clubs, who, without a full and comprehensive reset of football’s finances, including how monies are distributed throughout the game, will continue to struggle to meet the demands of an outdated and unsustainable model. "In respect of the challenges at Wigan Athletic, there is clearly a number of important unanswered questions that require urgent attention and the EFL welcomes the move by administrators to launch an investigation. "The EFL will undertake a similar exercise and, should any breaches of football regulations or company law be discovered, action will be taken either by the League or the body with the relevant jurisdiction to do so." But the EFL has reiterated that a 12-point penalty is a default punishment following insolvency. It adds: "The regulation seeks to ensure a club cannot gain any advantage over other clubs by not paying its creditors in full and on time. "The EFL acknowledges it is a difficult time for any club placed into Administration but is mindful that its regulations are to be applied consistently and equally to all member clubs irrespective of the circumstances. "In the current case of Wigan Athletic, due to the club being placed into administration after the fourth Thursday in March, the sporting sanction will take affect once the final League positions are known." The club are considering an appeal to an independent panel but the doesn't hold out much hope. Joint administrator Gerald Krasner pointed out no club had ever successfully challenged the 12-point penalty for entering administration. He said the administrators were also working on a strategy to ensure the club would not be liable to a further 15-point deduction if they fail to pay creditors 25p in the pound. The only problem with this is that the rules aren’t “set in stone”, just see Blackpool where they decided a Receivership wasn’t an insolvency event!!
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Post by realstokebloke on Jul 8, 2020 13:25:24 GMT
With regard to the 12 point deduction, I understand why, if they're in the bottom three at the end of the season, then the deduction isn't put in place until next season, as really they wouldn't have received any punishment but why isn't the 12 point deduction put into place next season, if they stay up this season even with the deduction applied to this season? If a team knew that a 12 point deduction wouldn't effect them much bar slipping a few places in the final table, it's much less of a deterrent than them knowing, that if they go into administration, then it will result in them starting next season with a 12 point deduction. I guess ... albeit, what is, effectively a 24pt penalty is arguably getting the wrong side of harsh isn't it?
But yes, the current rule book would feed into any cynical calculation of a mid table (safe) team wanting to just offset a load of debt and still escape the killer of relegation.
Maybe Sheffield Wednesday are a case in point this season.
But that said, I don't think you can drop in such clauses ad hoc this year and, more widely, the whole area of EFL governance needs looking at very closely & very quickly as it ain't working and needs fixing.
Not least the 'gatekeeper' policy - the fit & proper owners clause as Wigan so aptly illustrates.
In the meantime, we're trying to buy David Marshall.
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Jul 8, 2020 14:53:07 GMT
www.gazettelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/efl-confirm-wigan-12-point-18560305The EFL has confirmed it will issue Wigan Athletic a 12-point deduction despite talk of a possible appeal. That could offer Middlesbrough a lifeline should they finish in their current third bottom spot. Wigan automatically face punishment after the club was put into administration last week, a day after a 3-0 win over Stoke City had seemingly all-but secured their Championship status. The penalty - set in stone in EFL rules - will be imposed at the end of the season if Wigan finish outside the bottom three. If they finish a relegation spot, the penalty will be applied in League One next season. That could markedly affect the bottom of the table. Boro are currently third bottom but would escape relegation with Wigan plunged to the bottom if the sanction was applied now. Wigan supporters, local MPs and media figures have launched a petition to suggest the sanction is unfair. An appeal can be made on grounds force majeure - circumstances beyond control - but the EFL has stated in an assertive statement that Covid-19 would not meet that criteria. EFL chiefs say the new owners showed they had sufficient funds to weather the storm just a month ago. A statement said: "The League fundamentally disagrees with the comments attributed earlier today to Mr Au Yeung Wai Kay where he stated that ‘the Covid-19 pandemic has undermined the ability to fund the club'. "While Covid-19 has undoubtedly presented significant financial challenges to the professional game, evidence of the required source and sufficiency of funding to be invested in or otherwise made available to the club was provided as part of the recent change of control process. "(The Covid crisis) is more illustrative of the wider financial challenges facing EFL clubs, who, without a full and comprehensive reset of football’s finances, including how monies are distributed throughout the game, will continue to struggle to meet the demands of an outdated and unsustainable model. "In respect of the challenges at Wigan Athletic, there is clearly a number of important unanswered questions that require urgent attention and the EFL welcomes the move by administrators to launch an investigation. "The EFL will undertake a similar exercise and, should any breaches of football regulations or company law be discovered, action will be taken either by the League or the body with the relevant jurisdiction to do so." But the EFL has reiterated that a 12-point penalty is a default punishment following insolvency. It adds: "The regulation seeks to ensure a club cannot gain any advantage over other clubs by not paying its creditors in full and on time. "The EFL acknowledges it is a difficult time for any club placed into Administration but is mindful that its regulations are to be applied consistently and equally to all member clubs irrespective of the circumstances. "In the current case of Wigan Athletic, due to the club being placed into administration after the fourth Thursday in March, the sporting sanction will take affect once the final League positions are known." The club are considering an appeal to an independent panel but the doesn't hold out much hope. Joint administrator Gerald Krasner pointed out no club had ever successfully challenged the 12-point penalty for entering administration. He said the administrators were also working on a strategy to ensure the club would not be liable to a further 15-point deduction if they fail to pay creditors 25p in the pound. The only problem with this is that the rules aren’t “set in stone”, just see Blackpool where they decided a Receivership wasn’t an insolvency event!!
That was because Blackpool didn't go into receivership due to their Financial situation, but because a judge ordered it in order to push through the sale so the previous owner could recoup a previouis debt owed by the club. It was basically an internal dispute, but the EFL had to get involved because a receiver had been put in place.
However, they could demonstrate that the receivers weren't there due to Financial hardship within the club, no staff had to be let go or go without pay and they could still fulfill the needs of a member club going forward.
Wigan have gone into administration specifically because of their Financial situation. They've already had to lay off over 75 staff, weren't able to pay their players on time last week and have been told this week they will only receive 20% when they are paid later this week.
They're 2 entirely different situations and the EFL have already made a public statement saying that Force majeur due to COVID is not applicable here, and Wigan's own administrator said that was literally all they had to appeal with.
In simple terms, Wigan themselves have said their appeal is based solely around Force Majeur due to COVID...the EFL have subsequently said it isn't applicable as the new owners proved they had sufficient funds even in spite of the pandemic and the pandemic was no longer an unexpected event (which Force majeur has to be) when they bought the club.
Whether the rules are set in stone or not, all they will do is judge the appeal based on what Wigan themselves put forward and have said that what Wigan are putting forward isn't applicable. The EFL won't say "Force majeur isn't aplicable but x,y,z may be"...they won't even consider "x,y or z" unless Wigan ask them to in their appeal, and Wigan have said themselves it's just the COVID thing in their appeal.
EDIT: I'm not saying you're not right and the EFL won't fudge around things. Just looks like they're fucked...and i guess i'm more trying to convince myself it will definitely happen than anything (Fucking hell, how bad have things got when we're having to cling onto the hope of some other poor club being possibly fucked completely for good, just so we stay up?)
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