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Tom Ince?
Jul 6, 2020 21:22:41 GMT
via mobile
Post by thehoof on Jul 6, 2020 21:22:41 GMT
It’s the Bojan conundrum all over again, where we knew that there was undoubted class in the player, because we had seen him dominate games and we kept hoping that form would return. The difference being that in the odd game, Ince has a good 10 minutes- he’s never ever threatened to dominate in a Stoke shirt and excuse after excuse is made for his fragile mental state. His last good season is 4 years ago- he is never going to come back to any sort of eye catching form. To think that he is, is the biggest leap of faith since Hughes thought Kevin Wimmer represented a good signing. He’s an absolute busted flush.
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Post by Fred Merger on Jul 6, 2020 21:46:31 GMT
He was probably our best player in the first few months after signing for us scored about 5 or 6 goals by Christmas. Definitely seemed to lose interest after Rowetts departure and has done very little since. Although if he does have a spike in form it can only help us!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2020 4:41:00 GMT
He needs to be shipped out if we can find someone to take him off us.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2020 6:30:14 GMT
He needs to be shipped out if we can find someone to take him off us. The odd goal might help in the process of that also the odd goal helping us. Buyers need to be reminded he's still a footballer, not some spoiled brat. But for every little good moment he's offered there have been 99 bad ones. If O'Neill rewards that one good moment by giving him another futile run in the team or even offers him an extended contract then I'm afraid that's going to held against him once the going gets tough. Unfortunately I think he will.
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Post by cheekymatt71 on Jul 7, 2020 7:05:09 GMT
One goal does not change a complete dross season from Ince. He looks completely lost on the wing and doesnt know what hes going to do with the ball.
SO refreshing to see Tyrese just run with the ball towards the penalty box.
Ince is 28 he shouldnt need more coaching to tell him how to do his job. I would definitely sell if any offers came in
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Post by neddy on Jul 7, 2020 7:16:21 GMT
It’s all down to Tom himself really to prove to his manager he should be picked.
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Post by realstokebloke on Jul 7, 2020 7:36:43 GMT
As with nearly all our players, no one would even look at him without us making an enormous loss - and we can ill afford ano of those.
We'd have to give him away.
You have to hope he's so embarrassed by his season's 'form' that he gets his head down and drags what little talent / ability he has left in there somewhere and makes a go of it next.
Always remeber watching him & Matt Phillips when they were both at Blackpool in the Championship & on the up. My scouting report would have simply read "no" - not because he didn't have 'something' (you could see his potential tbf) but because MP was twice the player he was even then.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2020 9:55:00 GMT
Is it past the point of no return for Ince at Stoke, with the fans I mean. Don’t suppose we have a lot of choice. He’s been poor though, consistently so Not for me, he's too good a player and cost too much for us to give up, get him to anywhere near his best and he'll be a bloody good player for us. It's just not a case of simply form. It's a question of attitude, applying himself and playing by his own set of morals and rules. His extremely poor attitude rubs off on other players; some older players might shrug their shoulders, while some who are somewhat similarly disposed will follow his bad example, like if he can get away with doing so little for the team we can too. We've seen this in a number of games, especially of late Wigan. Against Barnsley he was not in the team, and everybody instantly gave 50% more (that's an arbitrary figure).
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Tom Ince?
Jul 7, 2020 10:07:55 GMT
via mobile
Post by Staffsoatcake on Jul 7, 2020 10:07:55 GMT
Get rid ASAP. We need players who give 100% for 90mins.in every game. There is a reason he's had more clubs than Jack Nicholas.
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Post by pez75 on Jul 7, 2020 10:13:43 GMT
Not for me, he's too good a player and cost too much for us to give up, get him to anywhere near his best and he'll be a bloody good player for us. It's just not a case of simply form. It's a question of attitude, applying himself and playing by his own set of morals and rules. His extremely poor attitude rubs off on other players; some older players might shrug their shoulders, while some who are somewhat similarly disposed will follow his bad example, like if he can get away with doing so little for the team we can too. We've seen this in a number of games, especially of late Wigan. Against Barnsley he was not in the team, and everybody instantly gave 50% more (that's an arbitrary figure). Its even more nuanced that that IMO. His attitude seems outwardly ok which is borne out by how he definitely seems to have the support of both his manager and his team-mates. If he was stroppy & bone-idle I think those cracks would have appeared by now. The problem with Ince is that he is an expert at being a charlatan. He is a fairy and a shirker but he does it in such a way that it can go unnoticed. He will do all the running that is expected of him and he will track and close down the opposition, however he will always avoid the tackle or the header where he might get contact. He makes an attempt to make it look like he is putting it in, but you can see how he just holds back enough to really exert himself and put himself in a position of potential physical risk. This is the same going forward, he will stick near defenders knowing he will not get the pass because he is marked. When he does get the ball he will make the easy pass rather than risk getting clattered. He will only take on his defender when he is in the vicinity of, or in the penalty area as he knows he less likely to be on the end of a cruncher due to the risk to the opposing team. If he had any bottle it is now all gone and has been for a while. I think MON has shown tremendous faith in him - probably because he likes a balanced team, but he has not repaid that faith IMO. Even after coming on as a sub on Sat when he scored (via a deflection) he was truly awful and had not had any positive impact up to that point. This was in a game that was all but over with Barnlsey well beaten and on the ropes. Campbell is far more effective on the right and he is playing out of position. Whether we can get rid or not, MON needs a new right winger in the summer.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2020 10:19:41 GMT
It's just not a case of simply form. It's a question of attitude, applying himself and playing by his own set of morals and rules. His extremely poor attitude rubs off on other players; some older players might shrug their shoulders, while some who are somewhat similarly disposed will follow his bad example, like if he can get away with doing so little for the team we can too. We've seen this in a number of games, especially of late Wigan. Against Barnsley he was not in the team, and everybody instantly gave 50% more (that's an arbitrary figure). Its even more nuanced that that IMO. His attitude seems outwardly ok which is borne out by how he definitely seems to have the support of both his manager and his team-mates. If he was stroppy & bone-idle I think those cracks would have appeared by now. The problem with Ince is that he is an expert at being a charlatan. He is a fairy and a shirker but he does it in such a way that it can go unnoticed. He will do all the running that is expected of him and he will track and close down the opposition, however he will always avoid the tackle or the header where he might get contact. He makes an attempt to make it look like he is putting it in, but you can see how he just holds back enough to really exert himself and put himself in a position of potential physical risk. This is the same going forward, he will stick near defenders knowing he will not get the pass because he is marked. When he does get the ball he will make the easy pass rather than risk getting clattered. He will only take on his defender when he is in the vicinity of, or in the penalty area as he knows he less likely to be on the end of a cruncher due to the risk to the opposing team. If he had any bottle it is now all gone and has been for a while. I think MON has shown tremendous faith in him - probably because he likes a balanced team, but he has not repaid that faith IMO. Even after coming on as a sub on Sat when he scored (via a deflection) he was truly awful and had not had any positive impact up to that point. This was in a game that was all but over with Barnlsey well beaten and on the ropes. Campbell is far more effective on the right and he is playing out of position. Whether we can get rid or not, MON needs a new right winger in the summer. This is decent summary. World Hide & Seek Champion? Maybe. Professional Footballer? No.
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Tom Ince?
Jul 7, 2020 10:38:17 GMT
via mobile
Post by gingerninja on Jul 7, 2020 10:38:17 GMT
For me he would need to show some pretty hot form between now and the season's end to convince me he's worthy of a place next season, in my opinion he's had more than enough time to show his worth.
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Post by realstokebloke on Jul 7, 2020 11:00:05 GMT
For me he would need to show some pretty hot form between now and the season's end to convince me he's worthy of a place next season, in my opinion he's had more than enough time to show his worth. Undoubtedly true - and he might yet impress (amaze) us all.
But like so many of these scenarios, MoN is stuck with him I suspect - we'd get pennies on the pound in a 'get rid' sale and Mince just wouldn't get a club / contract remotely close to his own estimation of his ability / worth.
So, given he's not an out and out bad'un & deserving of composting in the reserves etc., what option has MoN got other than to cuddle him, metaphorically or otherwise, and try and coach that belief back into him?
And I guess that starts with a public comment confirming your belief in the player (whether he truly believes it or not).
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Tom Ince?
Jul 7, 2020 11:16:19 GMT
via mobile
Post by bingbang on Jul 7, 2020 11:16:19 GMT
Maybe, just maybe he could have some one on one coaching with say Pej and be turned into a half decent left back. Has all the athletic attributes of say Andy Robertson just needs to be coached in positioning when to go forward etc. I know it’s a long shot but we may as well try and get something out of him after all he is still young.
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Tom Ince?
Jul 7, 2020 11:49:50 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2020 11:49:50 GMT
Maybe, just maybe he could have some one on one coaching with say Pej and be turned into a half decent left back. Has all the athletic attributes of say Andy Robertson just needs to be coached in positioning when to go forward etc. I know it’s a long shot but we may as well try and get something out of him after all he is still young. He's very poor in the position he's paid heavily to perform in, his position, What would we get from playing him in a position where he would need to be strong in the challenge and not hide.
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Post by bolders on Jul 7, 2020 12:09:25 GMT
He took a wonderful goal on saturday but if you notice none of their defenders were closing him down, so he has acres of space and time to pick his spot
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Tom Ince?
Jul 7, 2020 12:24:34 GMT
via mobile
Post by StaffordPotter on Jul 7, 2020 12:24:34 GMT
Absolutely woeful player who offers very little for us. The stats back that up. Get rid ASAP.
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Tom Ince?
Jul 7, 2020 12:28:26 GMT
via mobile
Post by wakefieldstokie on Jul 7, 2020 12:28:26 GMT
Absolutely woeful player who offers very little for us. The stats back that up. Get rid ASAP. Genuine question, do you have the stats?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2020 12:41:12 GMT
It's just not a case of simply form. It's a question of attitude, applying himself and playing by his own set of morals and rules. His extremely poor attitude rubs off on other players; some older players might shrug their shoulders, while some who are somewhat similarly disposed will follow his bad example, like if he can get away with doing so little for the team we can too. We've seen this in a number of games, especially of late Wigan. Against Barnsley he was not in the team, and everybody instantly gave 50% more (that's an arbitrary figure). Its even more nuanced that that IMO. His attitude seems outwardly ok which is borne out by how he definitely seems to have the support of both his manager and his team-mates. If he was stroppy & bone-idle I think those cracks would have appeared by now. The problem with Ince is that he is an expert at being a charlatan. He is a fairy and a shirker but he does it in such a way that it can go unnoticed. He will do all the running that is expected of him and he will track and close down the opposition, however he will always avoid the tackle or the header where he might get contact. He makes an attempt to make it look like he is putting it in, but you can see how he just holds back enough to really exert himself and put himself in a position of potential physical risk. This is the same going forward, he will stick near defenders knowing he will not get the pass because he is marked. When he does get the ball he will make the easy pass rather than risk getting clattered. He will only take on his defender when he is in the vicinity of, or in the penalty area as he knows he less likely to be on the end of a cruncher due to the risk to the opposing team. If he had any bottle it is now all gone and has been for a while. I think MON has shown tremendous faith in him - probably because he likes a balanced team, but he has not repaid that faith IMO. Even after coming on as a sub on Sat when he scored (via a deflection) he was truly awful and had not had any positive impact up to that point. This was in a game that was all but over with Barnlsey well beaten and on the ropes. Campbell is far more effective on the right and he is playing out of position. Whether we can get rid or not, MON needs a new right winger in the summer. I made a similar point in the past, saying he has a master's degree in alibi-ing. You do go further though and I like your analysis very much - well I wish I didn't, because it's kind of hard to accept that he takes the club and us for mugs. I disagree however when you say that we need a new right winger. We already have a player who is much better though he's much younger in Thibo Verlinden. He did get played on the left by Jones and even O'Neill, but I think his proper place is on the right. Problem of course is that he's injured, and he's been injured before. I think with the season starting later, he could be fit for the start of next season (I don't follow his social media, but someone posted that he was getting closer earlier than expected). I also think, but obviously can't know, that he will get less injured as he matures physically. Even so we probably need back up, but we should look at the academy first.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2020 12:43:22 GMT
Maybe, just maybe he could have some one on one coaching with say Pej and be turned into a half decent left back. Has all the athletic attributes of say Andy Robertson just needs to be coached in positioning when to go forward etc. I know it’s a long shot but we may as well try and get something out of him after all he is still young. You're saying that a man who refuses to tackle could be turned into a full back?
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Jul 7, 2020 12:51:46 GMT
One goal does not change a complete dross season from Ince. He looks completely lost on the wing and doesnt know what hes going to do with the ball. SO refreshing to see Tyrese just run with the ball towards the penalty box. Ince is 28 he shouldnt need more coaching to tell him how to do his job. I would definitely sell if any offers came in Of course Ince knows what he's going to do.....think about going on the outside, fumble about with the ball, realise he doesn't have the pace or skill to do so, then come inside with a horrendous touch which runs him straight into the opposition. Repeat to fade
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Post by bolders on Jul 7, 2020 12:52:03 GMT
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Tom Ince?
Jul 7, 2020 12:55:33 GMT
via mobile
Post by mickmillslovechild on Jul 7, 2020 12:55:33 GMT
Absolutely woeful player who offers very little for us. The stats back that up. Get rid ASAP. Genuine question, do you have the stats? footystats.org/players/england/tom-inceThis season..... 1 goal every 893 minutes 1 assist every 1,340 minutes
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2020 12:56:15 GMT
Just look at his stats from the Wigan game?
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Tom Ince?
Jul 7, 2020 13:07:38 GMT
via mobile
Post by rorystowel on Jul 7, 2020 13:07:38 GMT
“Ince gets an average of 0.07 assists for every 90 minutes that he's on the pitch.” - WOW that’s bad.
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Post by mrcoke on Jul 7, 2020 13:57:33 GMT
Get rid ASAP. We need players who give 100% for 90mins.in every game. There is a reason he's had more clubs than Jack Nicholas. Good one, but not quite that many, we are his 9th if I remember rightly. I wonder how many managers he has played for? Rowett is possibly the only one to want him, which speaks volumes. For me to even start to get to like him, he has got to start playing with a passion (like McClean), make himself available for passes (like McClean), take on his marker occasionally and try and beat him (like McClean), and assist and score more. So I do not expect to start to like him anytime soon! Just think if McClean had Ince's footballing ability.
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Post by redstriper on Jul 7, 2020 14:14:20 GMT
His record prior to stoke - whilst mixed, has some purple patches in it which shows he can be very effective. He played a lot of football for england at u17, u19 and u21 levels. A much better player than we've seen, we've never got the best out of him, which is mightily frustrating.
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Tom Ince?
Jul 7, 2020 14:43:39 GMT
via mobile
Post by thehoof on Jul 7, 2020 14:43:39 GMT
His record prior to stoke - whilst mixed, has some purple patches in it which shows he can be very effective. He played a lot of football for england at u17, u19 and u21 levels. A much better player than we've seen, we've never got the best out of him, which is mightily frustrating. Other than Derby and Blackpool have any of his myriad other clubs got anything out of him. Why so many clubs by the time he was 27? Totally inconsistent and promises more than he actually delivers.
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Post by pez75 on Jul 7, 2020 14:59:01 GMT
He took a wonderful goal on saturday but if you notice none of their defenders were closing him down, so he has acres of space and time to pick his spot And yet he still hit one of them (defenders) giving him the deflection & luck he needed to make the shot unsaveable?
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Post by fentonstokie1 on Jul 7, 2020 15:09:52 GMT
Several times a season remembers he is paid to be a footballer, a complete mystery to me how he gets picked in a starting eleven even with our shortage of creativity. Get rid, take a hit if necessary.
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