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Post by Davef on Jun 21, 2020 17:22:15 GMT
In a sporting sense, taking the knee was started by American Footballer Colin Kaepernick who refused to acknowledge the national anthem in protest against racism and police brutality in the USA.
I think the football authorities have taken this on board as a show of solidarity with the many black players (and supporters) we have, even though the UK is a far more tolerant country than the USA.
The politicians are a different matter altogether and they're on a sticky wicket if they align themselves too closely with the BLM movement. By doing so, they're acknowledging that we have an out of control Police force which is systematically killing black people and that there is rampant racism throughout society. Our Police are no angels and we do have problems with racism, but we're not in the same league as America and even some European countries.
Raab was correct not to get drawn into the argument, but I fear Starmer may live to regret his actions.
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teflondel
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Post by teflondel on Jun 21, 2020 17:26:03 GMT
Still think this is the reason McClean didn’t start yesterday as he would probably have refused to bow to public pressure Interested to hear why you think James McClean would refuse to support an anti-racism initiative? It’s not a matter of not supporting BLM. It’s the fact that if you refuse to take a knee then you are a racist. Nobody should have explain why they won’t take a knee or won’t say black lives matter without being accused of being a “racist”. I am not racist, sexist, ageist, homo or any other phobic. But we live in a free country that is meant to have freedom of speech and expression and as such. If said person is a twat and acts in a twat like way. I will call them out on it. I hate the way comments are made innocently and people/media deliberately take them out of context to force the so called offender to have to beg for forgiveness. It’s absolute bollocks. The vast majority of people in this world are normal reasonable individuals. However at both ends of the spectrum there are bell ends that ruin it for everyone else because they are the ones that get the main exposure. Social media gives voice to the idiots but the main stream media are just as guilty
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Jun 21, 2020 17:29:02 GMT
Still think this is the reason McClean didn’t start yesterday as he would probably have refused to bow to public pressure Spoke to him about 10 days ago and he was still recovering. Shirley you know that, on this board, a good conspiracy theory always trumps the facts!
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Post by danceswithclams on Jun 21, 2020 17:33:53 GMT
Interested to hear why you think James McClean would refuse to support an anti-racism initiative? It’s not a matter of not supporting BLM. It’s the fact that if you refuse to take a knee then you are a racist. Nobody should have explain why they won’t take a knee or won’t say black lives matter without being accused of being a “racist”. I am not racist, sexist, ageist, homo or any other phobic. But we live in a free country that is meant to have freedom of speech and expression and as such. If said person is a twat and acts in a twat like way. I will call them out on it. I hate the way comments are made innocently and people/media deliberately take them out of context to force the so called offender to have to beg for forgiveness. It’s absolute bollocks. The vast majority of people in this world are normal reasonable individuals. However at both ends of the spectrum there are bell ends that ruin it for everyone else because they are the ones that get the main exposure. Social media gives voice to the idiots but the main stream media are just as guilty You haven't answered the question though. Why do you think that McClean specifically would refuse to take the knee?
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Jun 21, 2020 17:35:06 GMT
Still think this is the reason McClean didn’t start yesterday as he would probably have refused to bow to public pressure Spoke to him about 10 days ago and he was still recovering. Shirley you know that, on this board, a good conspiracy theory always trumps the facts!
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Post by madnellie on Jun 21, 2020 17:47:03 GMT
Educational attainment, unemployment rates, average pay, home ownership, arrest levels, stop and search levels. If you’re black in Britain the colour of your skin is something that regularly affects all aspects of your life. Being white, rarely, if ever, is of any relevance. Hard not to disagree with a lot of that But how do you explain the majority of homeless people on the streets tend to be white males That's an excellent question, so I did a little digging. The stats (for London at least) show that the rate of rough sleepers per head of population is about the same for black people and white people. About 60 per cent of the population of London are white and about 13 per cent are black. About 60 per cent of people sleeping rough in London are white, and about 13 per cent are black. So while yes, you do see more homeless white males that's because there are a lot more white blokes to begin with. Homelessness (at least in London) seems to affect both races equally. www.statista.com/statistics/381386/london-homelessness-rough-sleepers-by-ethnicity/
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Post by ravey123 on Jun 21, 2020 17:51:37 GMT
Interested to hear why you think James McClean would refuse to support an anti-racism initiative? It’s not a matter of not supporting BLM. It’s the fact that if you refuse to take a knee then you are a racist. Nobody should have explain why they won’t take a knee or won’t say black lives matter without being accused of being a “racist”. I am not racist, sexist, ageist, homo or any other phobic. But we live in a free country that is meant to have freedom of speech and expression and as such. If said person is a twat and acts in a twat like way. I will call them out on it. I hate the way comments are made innocently and people/media deliberately take them out of context to force the so called offender to have to beg for forgiveness. It’s absolute bollocks. The vast majority of people in this world are normal reasonable individuals. However at both ends of the spectrum there are bell ends that ruin it for everyone else because they are the ones that get the main exposure. Social media gives voice to the idiots but the main stream media are just as guilty Well said
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Post by sheikhmomo on Jun 21, 2020 17:53:09 GMT
In a sporting sense, taking the knee was started by American Footballer Colin Kaepernick who refused to acknowledge the national anthem in protest against racism and police brutality in the USA. I think the football authorities have taken this on board as a show of solidarity with the many black players (and supporters) we have, even though the UK is a far more tolerant country than the USA. The politicians are a different matter altogether and they're on a sticky wicket if they align themselves too closely with the BLM movement. By doing so, they're acknowledging that we have an out of control Police force which is systematically killing black people and that there is rampant racism throughout society. Our Police are no angels and we do have problems with racism, but we're not in the same league as America and even some European countries. Raab was correct not to get drawn into the argument, but I fear Starmer may live to regret his actions. Raab's words were calculated and disgusting.
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Post by starkiller on Jun 21, 2020 17:54:25 GMT
Interested to hear why you think James McClean would refuse to support an anti-racism initiative? It’s not a matter of not supporting BLM. It’s the fact that if you refuse to take a knee then you are a racist. Nobody should have explain why they won’t take a knee or won’t say black lives matter without being accused of being a “racist”. I am not racist, sexist, ageist, homo or any other phobic. But we live in a free country that is meant to have freedom of speech and expression and as such. If said person is a twat and acts in a twat like way. I will call them out on it. I hate the way comments are made innocently and people/media deliberately take them out of context to force the so called offender to have to beg for forgiveness. It’s absolute bollocks. The vast majority of people in this world are normal reasonable individuals. However at both ends of the spectrum there are bell ends that ruin it for everyone else because they are the ones that get the main exposure. Social media gives voice to the idiots but the main stream media are just as guilty This is the only go to argument they have. This is the level of nuanced debate and intellect to be found on twitter. Universities are heading towards that level too. False dichotomy of thought and strawman argument. Do everything we do and believe everything we say or you're a racist. (Add in whatever ist or phobe applicable) I was naive enough to have expected more, but this is what we have.
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teflondel
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Post by teflondel on Jun 21, 2020 17:56:39 GMT
It’s not a matter of not supporting BLM. It’s the fact that if you refuse to take a knee then you are a racist. Nobody should have explain why they won’t take a knee or won’t say black lives matter without being accused of being a “racist”. I am not racist, sexist, ageist, homo or any other phobic. But we live in a free country that is meant to have freedom of speech and expression and as such. If said person is a twat and acts in a twat like way. I will call them out on it. I hate the way comments are made innocently and people/media deliberately take them out of context to force the so called offender to have to beg for forgiveness. It’s absolute bollocks. The vast majority of people in this world are normal reasonable individuals. However at both ends of the spectrum there are bell ends that ruin it for everyone else because they are the ones that get the main exposure. Social media gives voice to the idiots but the main stream media are just as guilty You haven't answered the question though. Why do you think that McClean specifically would refuse to take the knee? Maybe because the Irish have been persecuted by the British and there has certainly been racism against them on a high level, so while I am certain he is massively anti racism. Honestly he was in a no win situation. If he didn’t then it would be another stick to beat him with. If he did then it would more draw attention to his poppy refusal.
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Post by serpico on Jun 21, 2020 18:16:19 GMT
The left is trying to stir up a race war by putting out the perception we’re are racist country, but we’re not, by and large this is a great country to live in for minorities, sure we have some racists but it’s a very small segment of society these days, it’s very damaging to minorities to suggest we’re systemically racist, it instils a sense of hopelessness in them, a “what’s the point in trying if the deck is stacked against me” mindset which may discourage many black kids from attempting to get ahead in life, but in reality they do have the same equality of opportunity as white kids... in fact some studies show its white working class kids (boys in particular) who are falling behind! So lefties need to stop with the vulgar race baiting.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Jun 21, 2020 18:18:34 GMT
The left is trying to stir up a race war by putting out the perception we’re are racist country, but we’re not, by and large this is a great country to live in for minorities, sure we have some racists but it’s a very small segment of society these days, it’s very damaging to minorities to suggest we’re systemically racist, it instils a sense of hopelessness in them, a “what’s the point in trying if the deck is stacked against me” mindset which may discourage many black kids from attempting to get ahead in life, but in reality they do have the same equality of opportunity as white kids... in fact some studies show its white working class kids (boys in particular) who are falling behind! So lefties need to stop with the vulgar race baiting. Load of utter bollocks from the opening syllable.
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Post by starkiller on Jun 21, 2020 18:25:34 GMT
It’s not a matter of not supporting BLM. It’s the fact that if you refuse to take a knee then you are a racist. Nobody should have explain why they won’t take a knee or won’t say black lives matter without being accused of being a “racist”. I am not racist, sexist, ageist, homo or any other phobic. But we live in a free country that is meant to have freedom of speech and expression and as such. If said person is a twat and acts in a twat like way. I will call them out on it. I hate the way comments are made innocently and people/media deliberately take them out of context to force the so called offender to have to beg for forgiveness. It’s absolute bollocks. The vast majority of people in this world are normal reasonable individuals. However at both ends of the spectrum there are bell ends that ruin it for everyone else because they are the ones that get the main exposure. Social media gives voice to the idiots but the main stream media are just as guilty You haven't answered the question though. Why do you think that McClean specifically would refuse to take the knee? Your question is fundamentally erroneous.
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Post by serpico on Jun 21, 2020 18:26:32 GMT
The left is trying to stir up a race war by putting out the perception we’re are racist country, but we’re not, by and large this is a great country to live in for minorities, sure we have some racists but it’s a very small segment of society these days, it’s very damaging to minorities to suggest we’re systemically racist, it instils a sense of hopelessness in them, a “what’s the point in trying if the deck is stacked against me” mindset which may discourage many black kids from attempting to get ahead in life, but in reality they do have the same equality of opportunity as white kids... in fact some studies show its white working class kids (boys in particular) who are falling behind! So lefties need to stop with the vulgar race baiting. Load of utter bollocks from the opening syllable. Not at all, the left is essentially telling black kids that they cannot get ahead in this country because we’re systemically racist, which is utter bollocks and potentially very damaging. I know it suits your political bias and agenda to push the race issue but You just look silly doing it because it doesn’t align with reality in 2020 Britain, we’re not a racist country* get over it! *saying we’re not a racist country isn’t the same as saying there are no racists, there are and unfortunately always will be.
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Post by salopstick on Jun 21, 2020 18:26:57 GMT
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Post by foster on Jun 21, 2020 18:28:48 GMT
The left is trying to stir up a race war by putting out the perception we’re are racist country, but we’re not, by and large this is a great country to live in for minorities, sure we have some racists but it’s a very small segment of society these days, it’s very damaging to minorities to suggest we’re systemically racist, it instils a sense of hopelessness in them, a “what’s the point in trying if the deck is stacked against me” mindset which may discourage many black kids from attempting to get ahead in life, but in reality they do have the same equality of opportunity as white kids... in fact some studies show its white working class kids (boys in particular) who are falling behind! So lefties need to stop with the vulgar race baiting. Load of utter bollocks from the opening syllable. No problem with your opinion on the matter, but can you tone down the language, aggression and contempt in your posts towards anyone you don't agree with. It's ruining the thread and just makes others not want to join in.
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Post by salopstick on Jun 21, 2020 18:31:19 GMT
In a sporting sense, taking the knee was started by American Footballer Colin Kaepernick who refused to acknowledge the national anthem in protest against racism and police brutality in the USA. I think the football authorities have taken this on board as a show of solidarity with the many black players (and supporters) we have, even though the UK is a far more tolerant country than the USA. The politicians are a different matter altogether and they're on a sticky wicket if they align themselves too closely with the BLM movement. By doing so, they're acknowledging that we have an out of control Police force which is systematically killing black people and that there is rampant racism throughout society. Our Police are no angels and we do have problems with racism, but we're not in the same league as America and even some European countries. Raab was correct not to get drawn into the argument, but I fear Starmer may live to regret his actions. Raab's words were calculated and disgusting. You are just being partisan You don’t like him so anything he says you would say is calculated and disgusting.
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Post by madnellie on Jun 21, 2020 18:31:31 GMT
Do you really want me to listen to that jug eared gentleman...I would not believe that pink was pink coming out of the BBC....Really? Yeah, why on earth would you want to hear two black people talk about their actual experiences of racism when you can continue to live in your white bubble instead.
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Post by salopstick on Jun 21, 2020 18:32:59 GMT
Load of utter bollocks from the opening syllable. No problem with your opinion on the matter, but can you tone down the language, aggression and contempt in your posts towards anyone you don't agree with. It's ruining the thread and just makes others not want to join in. And instigates them being deleted
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Post by sheikhmomo on Jun 21, 2020 18:36:56 GMT
Raab's words were calculated and disgusting. You are just being partisan You don’t like him so anything he says you would say is calculated and disgusting. Basically saying young black lads are thick and jumping on a Game of Thrones Bandwagon. Throw in a reference to the dear old Queen to emphasise your own 'loyalty' to make others feel more excluded and there you have it Not surprised it gave you a hard on. Others I'm more disappointed with.
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Post by salopstick on Jun 21, 2020 18:37:01 GMT
In a sporting sense, taking the knee was started by American Footballer Colin Kaepernick who refused to acknowledge the national anthem in protest against racism and police brutality in the USA. I think the football authorities have taken this on board as a show of solidarity with the many black players (and supporters) we have, even though the UK is a far more tolerant country than the USA. The politicians are a different matter altogether and they're on a sticky wicket if they align themselves too closely with the BLM movement. By doing so, they're acknowledging that we have an out of control Police force which is systematically killing black people and that there is rampant racism throughout society. Our Police are no angels and we do have problems with racism, but we're not in the same league as America and even some European countries. Raab was correct not to get drawn into the argument, but I fear Starmer may live to regret his actions. Do you not think “the football authorities” could actually do someThing meaningful instead of a “show of solidarity” And that their repeated failure to do so makes this kneeling look more cynical.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Jun 21, 2020 18:37:52 GMT
Load of utter bollocks from the opening syllable. No problem with your opinion on the matter, but can you tone down the language, aggression and contempt in your posts towards anyone you don't agree with. It's ruining the thread and just makes others not want to join in. Well it is utter bollocks. Complete and utter right wing bollocks.
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Post by salopstick on Jun 21, 2020 18:39:05 GMT
You are just being partisan You don’t like him so anything he says you would say is calculated and disgusting. Basically saying young black lads are thick and jumping on a Game of Thrones Bandwagon. Throw in a reference to the dear old Queen to emphasise your own 'loyalty' to make others feel more excluded and there you have it Not surprised it gave you a hard on. Others I'm more disappointed with. If you want to be partisan it was a lot more authentic than Starmer on twitter
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Post by sheikhmomo on Jun 21, 2020 18:40:43 GMT
Basically saying young black lads are thick and jumping on a Game of Thrones Bandwagon. Throw in a reference to the dear old Queen to emphasise your own 'loyalty' to make others feel more excluded and there you have it Not surprised it gave you a hard on. Others I'm more disappointed with. If you want to be partisan it was a lot more authentic than Starmer on twitter Yep authentic I'm better than you, right wing dog shit.
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Post by wagsastokie on Jun 21, 2020 18:47:26 GMT
Basically saying young black lads are thick and jumping on a Game of Thrones Bandwagon. Throw in a reference to the dear old Queen to emphasise your own 'loyalty' to make others feel more excluded and there you have it Not surprised it gave you a hard on. Others I'm more disappointed with. If you want to be partisan it was a lot more authentic than Starmer on twitter A fake ten pound note is more authentic than Starmer
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Post by danceswithclams on Jun 21, 2020 18:50:02 GMT
You haven't answered the question though. Why do you think that McClean specifically would refuse to take the knee? Your question is fundamentally erroneous. It's not mate. I definitely meant to ask that question.
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Post by serpico on Jun 21, 2020 18:55:17 GMT
If we’re talking about racism on an individual level then we still have pockets of it, no doubt about it, so does the US and most other countries, probably always will, but on a systemic level ? Imo this is just not the case anymore, we’ve made huge strides in the last 20 -30 years and to suggest otherwise is very damaging, but since the left is all out of ideas they’re trying to reignite a war which was won years ago, it won’t work because the majority of people see through it, any sane person not infected by identity politics sees the game that’s being played here,
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Post by starkiller on Jun 21, 2020 18:59:54 GMT
Your question is fundamentally erroneous. It's not mate. I definitely meant to ask that question. So, you definitely meant to ask a fundamentally erroneous question? See, we can all play that game.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Jun 21, 2020 19:02:42 GMT
If we’re talking about racism on an individual level then we still have pockets of it, no doubt about it, so does the US and most other countries, probably always will, but on a systemic level ? Imo this is just not the case anymore, we’ve made huge strides in the last 20 -30 years and to suggest otherwise is very damaging, but since the left is all out of ideas they’re trying to reignite a war which was won years ago, it won’t work because the majority of people see through it, any sane person not infected by identity politics sees the game that’s being played here, The Right has been disgusting in this matter regarding entire races and nationalities in the Brexit debate, to Windrush, the recourse to no public funds and the health surcharge. Thats before we get in to Law and Order and the Criminal Justice system Thank fuck someone is fighting against this hard right campaign I say.
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Post by richie22 on Jun 21, 2020 19:06:28 GMT
I thought uefa and all that had in place protocols and punishments for political statements. I support those that stand up for the themself in protests and rally’s. The BLM movement is needed sadly, however. Similar to when we have a ‘big’ celebrity death and we all have to do our best to out do each other in grief, the football world should not be forced to tow the FA line by taking a knee. The message is null and void if you did it because you had to, Colin Kapernick’s original protest was powerful because it was all or nothing, and he got nothing. The Industry around him deserted him, fast. A bunch of prima donnas doing it because there paymasters told them carry’s no message. If these footballers support it they should be free to do it in there own way.
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