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Post by somersetstokie on Jun 9, 2020 10:24:08 GMT
This is a brief comment on something that I find to be a personal irritation.
I know language is always changing and evolving, and not always for the best. Why for example did the phrase "it's early days" (meaning it's to soon to tell) seem to become "early doors" (which is a horse racing stabling analogy).
My issue is with the use of plurals, rather than the singular, when offering examples to illustrate a point. This tendancy to confuse seems to apply particularly to sports people, and especially footballers. In fact it was comments I heard from Raheem Sterling yesterday or this morning that highlights this issue.
If discussing the importance of role models for young kids, for example, pundits will often cite "the Beckhams, the Lampards and the Gerrards" in their discourse. There is only one of each of them. Why has it ceased to be acceptable just to say "Frank Lampard would be a very good example".
Similarly, in another example, in suggesting that the big football clubs should take the lead in the fight against racism, the interviewee will talk about "the Chelseas, the Liverpools and the Arsenals." It is not the "the Chelseas or Liverpools", it is simply Chelsea or Liverpool.
I find this a difficult point to explain but I hope you get the gist of what I'm saying. This really winds me up.
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Post by steve66 on Jun 9, 2020 11:16:37 GMT
This is a brief comment on something that I find to be a personal irritation. I know language is always changing and evolving, and not always for the best. Why for example did the phrase "its early days" (meaning its to soon to tell) seem to become "early doors" (which is a horse racing stabling analogy). My issue is with the use of plurals, rather than the singular, when offering examples to illustrate a point. This tendancy to confuse seems to apply particularly to sports people, and especially footballers. In fact it was comments I heard from Rashim Sterling yesterday or this morning that highlights this issue. If discussing the importance of role models for young kids, for example, pundits will often cite "the Beckhams, the Lampards and the Gerrards" in their discourse. Why has it ceased to be acceptable just to say "Frank Lampard would be a very good example". Similarly, in another example, in suggesting that the big football clubs should take the lead in the fight against racism, the interviewee will talk about "the Chelseas, the Liverpools and the Arsenals." It is not the "the Chelseas or Liverpools", it is simply Chelsea or Liverpool. I find this a difficult point to explain but I hope you get the gist of what I'm saying. This really winds me up. Who’s Rashim Sterling?
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Post by somersetstokie on Jun 9, 2020 11:38:32 GMT
"Who’s Rashim Sterling?" The well known typing error!
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Post by steve66 on Jun 9, 2020 11:42:35 GMT
"Who’s Rashim Sterling?" The well known typing error! Yes really annoying init 🤪
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Post by lordb on Jun 9, 2020 11:46:13 GMT
What has she done?
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Jun 9, 2020 11:48:41 GMT
"Who’s Rashim Sterling?" The well known typing error! Yes really annoying init 🤪 He certainly won’t be competing with the Shakespeares and Austin’s of the world with spelling like that😉
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Post by mrcoke on Jun 9, 2020 11:56:38 GMT
Having had a very "Victorian" father, a teacher for a mother, and attended a traditional grammar school, I became very disciplined in the use of our language and grammar.
The issue essentially is laziness. People cannot see the point of grammar and so don't bother. The point is accuracy of expressing what you want to convey and this message board has countless examples of sloppy writing leading to misunderstanding and posters arguing at cross purposes. Sometimes because the original post was open to misinterpretation and often because of "lazy" reading .
The use of mobile phones for texting lead to the demise of grammar and spelling, and the internet to Americanisation of our English language. Language does evolve naturally, (I am frequently amazed at the new words I hear of on Countdown!) but the loss of grammar has lead to far greater misunderstanding in the age of communication, which is somewhat ironic.
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Post by marylandstoke on Jun 9, 2020 11:58:26 GMT
A moan about peebles that don’t pruff reed?
Early days became early doors when Big Ron Atkinson started using it in his colour commentary sometime in, as I remember, the late 1940s. It sounded so stupid people started using it comedically and that’s how it got traction.
Want to watch every stage hand on comms lose their mind at the same time? Have the stage manager not know the difference between a lecturn and a podium. It’s the little things eh?
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Post by somersetstokie on Jun 9, 2020 12:05:04 GMT
Yes really annoying init 🤪 He certainly won’t be competing with the Shakespeares and Austin’s of the world with spelling like that😉 Liked your play on the word Austen, badger. I hear that she was way ahead of her time and really liked the idea of cars.
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Post by murphthesurf on Jun 9, 2020 12:08:42 GMT
A moan about peebles that don’t pruff reed? Early days became early doors when Big Ron Atkinson started using it in his colour commentary sometime in, as I remember, the late 1940s. It sounded so stupid people started using it comedically and that’s how it got traction. Want to watch every stage hand on comms lose their mind at the same time? Have the stage manager not know the difference between a lecturn and a podium. It’s the little things eh? It's a good job the SM knew what a lectern was, then.....
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Jun 9, 2020 12:15:01 GMT
He certainly won’t be competing with the Shakespeares and Austin’s of the world with spelling like that😉 Liked your play on the word Austen, badger. I hear that she was way ahead of her time and really liked the idea of cars. 🤣 touché
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Post by murphthesurf on Jun 9, 2020 12:34:15 GMT
Having had a very "Victorian" father, a teacher for a mother, and attended a traditional grammar school, I became very disciplined in the use of our language and grammar.The issue essentially is laziness. People cannot see the point of grammar and so don't bother. The point is accuracy of expressing what you want to convey and this message board has countless examples of sloppy writing leading to misunderstanding and posters arguing at cross purposes. Sometimes because the original post was open to misinterpretation and often because of "lazy" reading . The use of mobile phones for texting lead to the demise of grammar and spelling, and the internet to Americanisation of our English language. Language does evolve naturally, (I am frequently amazed at the new words I hear of on Countdown!) but the loss of grammar has lead to far greater misunderstanding in the age of communication, which is somewhat ironic. I knew it, I knew it, I knew it! It really shows. That post is wonderful, and as I have exactly the same passion for our language and standards I agree with every word.
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Post by somersetstokie on Jun 9, 2020 12:41:48 GMT
I think the popularity of "modern life" television productions, especially those that use local cultural expression, such as East Enders, have a lot to answer for! Sort it ahhht somebody.
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Post by yeokel on Jun 9, 2020 12:49:14 GMT
This is a brief comment on something that I find to be a personal irritation. I know language is always changing and evolving, and not always for the best. Why for example did the phrase "its early days" (meaning its to soon to tell) seem to become "early doors" (which is a horse racing stabling analogy). Surely you mean "it's early days" and, "it's too soon to tell"?
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Post by Orbs on Jun 9, 2020 12:58:58 GMT
This is a brief comment on something that I find to be a personal irritation. I know language is always changing and evolving, and not always for the best. Why for example did the phrase "its early days" (meaning its to soon to tell) seem to become "early doors" (which is a horse racing stabling analogy). My issue is with the use of plurals, rather than the singular, when offering examples to illustrate a point. This tendancy to confuse seems to apply particularly to sports people, and especially footballers. In fact it was comments I heard from Raheem Sterling yesterday or this morning that highlights this issue. If discussing the importance of role models for young kids, for example, pundits will often cite "the Beckhams, the Lampards and the Gerrards" in their discourse. Why has it ceased to be acceptable just to say "Frank Lampard would be a very good example". Similarly, in another example, in suggesting that the big football clubs should take the lead in the fight against racism, the interviewee will talk about "the Chelseas, the Liverpools and the Arsenals." It is not the "the Chelseas or Liverpools", it is simply Chelsea or Liverpool. I find this a difficult point to explain but I hope you get the gist of what I'm saying. This really winds me up. I'm right with you here SS (pun intended) I'd put it down to me turning into a grumpy old twat when I'd noticed this a few months ago. Really annoying. Don't get me started on people starting every sentence with 'So' or 'Me/I, personally' and the next waiter/waitress who simply says 'enjoy' when they present me with my Sea Bass will be fucking wearing it. I'd differentiate between 'it's early days' and 'early doors' though. To me 'it's early days' means it is too soon to tell whereas 'early doors' would mean to arrive somewhere early. I hadn't noticed the meanings being duplicated.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Jun 9, 2020 13:19:18 GMT
Think we can all agree that the fashion for saying the word “literally” out of context annoys every single person who hasn’t managed to catch the literally bug. “I literally died when I saw that”. That kind of thing. Apologies for any grammatical errors within this post😉
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Post by middleoftheboothen on Jun 9, 2020 13:56:50 GMT
Think we can all agree that the fashion for saying the word “literally” out of context annoys every single person who hasn’t managed to catch the literally bug. “I literally died when I saw that”. That kind of thing. Apologies for any grammatical errors within this post😉 It quite literally annoys me.
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Post by somersetstokie on Jun 9, 2020 13:57:56 GMT
This is a brief comment on something that I find to be a personal irritation. I know language is always changing and evolving, and not always for the best. Why for example did the phrase "its early days" (meaning its to soon to tell) seem to become "early doors" (which is a horse racing stabling analogy). My issue is with the use of plurals, rather than the singular, when offering examples to illustrate a point. This tendancy to confuse seems to apply particularly to sports people, and especially footballers. In fact it was comments I heard from Raheem Sterling yesterday or this morning that highlights this issue. If discussing the importance of role models for young kids, for example, pundits will often cite "the Beckhams, the Lampards and the Gerrards" in their discourse. Why has it ceased to be acceptable just to say "Frank Lampard would be a very good example". Similarly, in another example, in suggesting that the big football clubs should take the lead in the fight against racism, the interviewee will talk about "the Chelseas, the Liverpools and the Arsenals." It is not the "the Chelseas or Liverpools", it is simply Chelsea or Liverpool. I find this a difficult point to explain but I hope you get the gist of what I'm saying. This really winds me up. I'm right with you here SS (pun intended) I'd put it down to me turning into a grumpy old twat when I'd noticed this a few months ago. Really annoying. Don't get me started on people starting every sentence with 'So' or 'Me/I, personally' and the next waiter/waitress who simply says 'enjoy' when they present me with my Sea Bass will be fucking wearing it. I'd differentiate between 'it's early days' and 'early doors' though. To me 'it's early days' means it is too soon to tell whereas 'early doors' would mean to arrive somewhere early. I hadn't noticed the meanings being duplicated. You could be right. Especially as those using the phrase may not understand the correct context for its use. It seems to me for example that a pundit might say "its early doors for the season, as we have only played 10 matches". As far as I always understood it "early doors" was common parlance in the racing industry, as opening up the top of the stable doors was one of the first actions of the day, and "early doors" was one of the first things to happen at the start of things. But as people say, language evolves, so tomorrow it could all mean something different.
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Post by crowey on Jun 9, 2020 14:10:21 GMT
.... social media is to blame (and elementary teaching.) I have no idea how well you have to perform in your GCSEs in the UK to become a teacher. However, here in Australia you have to get an OP16. Most reasonable professions require an OP one to four. I think this puts things into perspective
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Post by felonious on Jun 9, 2020 14:10:43 GMT
The perfect storm of Coronavirus, furlough and retirement leaving the baying mob with too much time on their hands
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Post by Linx on Jun 9, 2020 15:10:03 GMT
Dare I mention my two pet hates?
Apostrophes - or rather, their misuse. A basically straightforward aspect of punctuation that no one seems to understand (except all the kids I taught, natch!😎). I have my own theory why so few get it right, but I won’t expound for now.
‘Would of’ instead of ‘would have‘. WTF? It makes no sense whatsoever; it’s just an example of people transferring what they hear (phonetic suggestion) into what they write, resulting in grammatical gibberish.
Both of the above apply in abundance to this board. But I prefer to be off duty when I’m here, so tend to leave people to it. Unless they’re obviously so far out of line that they need sorting out! 😜
But moaning about grammar (and spelling) and politics are best left off this board. They lead to bad feelings and risk the disruption to Pax Stokienum.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 9, 2020 15:17:49 GMT
I do like somersetstokie, I picture him as an old gent in shirt, tie and blazer every day, whatever the weather. "There are standards to observe, old boy". Kind of a Henry Blofeld of the EEB!
I agree that some grammatical errors are irritating. By far the worst for me is the substitution of "have" by "of". I realise that they sound the same in quickly spoken speech, but does the user really not understand that "of" is no part of a verb construction whatsoever?
That said, language is a mutable thing. Shakespeare coined hundreds of neologisms. The only issue I have with it on here is when some posters feel that they have to pick up on other's spelling and grammar to try to humiliate them or, in some way, use it to dismiss their point. It's a bid sad and unnecessary. It can also be quite amusing and revealing - the 'culprit' usually makes several mistakes themselves in the process of trying to belittle their target!
Edit: oh, Linx beat me to it...
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Post by marylandstoke on Jun 9, 2020 15:20:18 GMT
Think we can all agree that the fashion for saying the word “literally” out of context annoys every single person who hasn’t managed to catch the literally bug. “I literally died when I saw that”. That kind of thing. Apologies for any grammatical errors within this post😉 It quite literally annoys me. Love what you did there
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Post by unknown182 on Jun 9, 2020 15:26:34 GMT
My biggest hate is people using the term "I could care less", this infers that there are other things more important for them to care less about. The term should be "I could not care less" which means that there is no other topic possible for them to care less about.
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Post by Pretty Little Boother on Jun 9, 2020 15:41:37 GMT
My biggest hate is people using the term "I could care less", this infers that there are other things more important for them to care less about. The term should be "I could not care less" which means that there is no other topic possible for them to care less about. "Implies", not "infers". I'm sorry, but the rule of SPAG threads is that you must write in flawless Standard English if you wish to complain about anything.
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Post by marylandstoke on Jun 9, 2020 15:45:20 GMT
Dare I mention my two pet hates? Apostrophes - or rather, their misuse. A basically straightforward aspect of punctuation that no one seems to understand (except all the kids I taught, natch!😎). I have my own theory why so few get it right, but I won’t expound for now. ‘Would of’ instead of ‘would have‘. WTF? It makes no sense whatsoever; it’s just an example of people transferring what they hear (phonetic suggestion) into what they write, resulting in grammatical gibberish. Both of the above apply in abundance to this board. But I prefer to be off duty when I’m here, so tend to leave people to it. Unless they’re obviously so far out of line that they need sorting out! 😜 But moaning about grammar (and spelling) and politics are best left off this board. They lead to bad feelings and risk the disruption to Pax Stokienum. You do have to admit though, apostrophes can be slippery little bastards..Eats, shoots and leaves and all that (book should be compulsory, once, early in life) On lockdown there was a trip we had to make for medications and there are two ways to get there. I always asked we go by the church with the sign out side that says “This to will pass” There was always a delightful moments o silence.....before Mrs R’s head E X plodes
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jun 9, 2020 16:04:08 GMT
Having had a very "Victorian" father, a teacher for a mother, and attended a traditional grammar school, I became very disciplined in the use of our language and grammar. The issue essentially is laziness. People cannot see the point of grammar and so don't bother. The point is accuracy of expressing what you want to convey and this message board has countless examples of sloppy writing leading to misunderstanding and posters arguing at cross purposes. Sometimes because the original post was open to misinterpretation and often because of "lazy" reading . The use of mobile phones for texting lead to the demise of grammar and spelling, and the internet to Americanisation of our English language. Language does evolve naturally, (I am frequently amazed at the new words I hear of on Countdown!) but the loss of grammar has lead to far greater misunderstanding in the age of communication, which is somewhat ironic. I'm only picking you up on this ( spelling to be accurate) because the topic is "grammar" Mr Coke. Much of my job involves working with young people with dyslexia and other studying/personal issues and conditions.....I'm not interested in picking people up for such matters, for me it is the meaning that counts.....but there are contexts in which grammar is important. ...on any case I've mode thousands meself lugerly dew 2 productive tits. But to get to my point....in your sentence it should be ' led' not "lead"....which for me does illustrate the complete illogicality ( is there such a word?) and complexity of the English language....as it is obviously easy to "use" "lead" the metal for the past tense of lead.
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Post by Orbs on Jun 9, 2020 16:19:56 GMT
I think it may have been Time4APint or JonesInAMillion on here many moons ago who confessed to thinking the phrase was 'Jesus Hates Christ' and he'd never understood the meaning of this.
Edit: I realise this isn't SPAG however this phrase definitely needs a wider audience
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Post by mrcoke on Jun 9, 2020 16:48:26 GMT
Having had a very "Victorian" father, a teacher for a mother, and attended a traditional grammar school, I became very disciplined in the use of our language and grammar. The issue essentially is laziness. People cannot see the point of grammar and so don't bother. The point is accuracy of expressing what you want to convey and this message board has countless examples of sloppy writing leading to misunderstanding and posters arguing at cross purposes. Sometimes because the original post was open to misinterpretation and often because of "lazy" reading . The use of mobile phones for texting lead to the demise of grammar and spelling, and the internet to Americanisation of our English language. Language does evolve naturally, (I am frequently amazed at the new words I hear of on Countdown!) but the loss of grammar has lead to far greater misunderstanding in the age of communication, which is somewhat ironic. I'm only picking you up on this ( spelling to be accurate) because the topic is "grammar" Mr Coke. Much of my job involves working with young people with dyslexia and other studying/personal issues and conditions.....I'm not interested in picking people up for such matters, for me it is the meaning that counts.....but there are contexts in which grammar is important. ...on any case I've mode thousands meself lugerly dew 2 productive tits. But to get to my point....in your sentence it should be ' led' not "lead"....which for me does illustrate the complete illogicality ( is there such a word?) and complexity of the English language....as it is obviously easy to "use" "lead" the metal for the past tense of lead. Good one. Put it down to my word blindness due to having been a chemical engineer!
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Post by somersetstokie on Jun 9, 2020 16:59:45 GMT
I do like somersetstokie, I picture him as an old gent in shirt, tie and blazer every day, whatever the weather. "There are standards to observe, old boy". Kind of a Henry Blofeld of the EEB!I agree that some grammatical errors are irritating. By far the worst for me is the substitution of "have" by "of". I realise that they sound the same in quickly spoken speech, but does the user really not understand that "of" is no part of a verb construction whatsoever? That said, language is a mutable thing. Shakespeare coined hundreds of neologisms. The only issue I have with it on here is when some posters feel that they have to pick up on other's spelling and grammar to try to humiliate them or, in some way, use it to dismiss their point. It's a bid sad and unnecessary. It can also be quite amusing and revealing - the 'culprit' usually makes several mistakes themselves in the process of trying to belittle their target! Edit: oh, Linx beat me to it... Thank you for those kind words Sir. I think you may be pretty close, but not so old. I tend to dress down on Fridays, and leave off the tie. Incidentally my role model was probably at one time John Steed from the Avengers! If that helps.
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