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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jun 9, 2020 17:07:54 GMT
I'm only picking you up on this ( spelling to be accurate) because the topic is "grammar" Mr Coke. Much of my job involves working with young people with dyslexia and other studying/personal issues and conditions.....I'm not interested in picking people up for such matters, for me it is the meaning that counts.....but there are contexts in which grammar is important. ...on any case I've mode thousands meself lugerly dew 2 productive tits. But to get to my point....in your sentence it should be ' led' not "lead"....which for me does illustrate the complete illogicality ( is there such a word?) and complexity of the English language....as it is obviously easy to "use" "lead" the metal for the past tense of lead. Good one. Put it down to my word blindness due to having been a chemical engineer! To be honest Cokey , I've done it myself, many times.....I think the plural of lead should be lead...why not make things simpler, rather than creating a situation where someone becomes "wrong". I agree with your original post about texting. What does get me, but perhaps shouldn't, is the acceptance of American words, particularly the z for s.... advertize realize recognize stabilize etc. etc.
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Post by somersetstokie on Jun 9, 2020 17:08:36 GMT
The English language is a confusing thing, even for many people who speak it as a native tongue. Very small variations in wording in a sentence can make a huge difference to a meaning. For example, saying that "Rita Ora looked devastating as she emerged from the Night Club" is a world away from saying, in the same circumstances, that she looked devastated
My favourite play on words or phrase of the moment was one that I heard in a Coronavirus briefing, discussing some aspect of antibodies, when a Scientist said that " Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."
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Post by mrcoke on Jun 9, 2020 17:43:42 GMT
Good one. Put it down to my word blindness due to having been a chemical engineer! To be honest Cokey , I've done it myself, many times.....I think the plural of lead should be lead...why not make things simpler, rather than creating a situation where someone becomes "wrong". I agree with your original post about texting. What does get me, but perhaps shouldn't, is the acceptance of American words, particularly the z for s.... advertize realize recognize stabilize etc. etc. Agreed. The worst Americanism for me is "off of" as in "He got off of the train". I accept spelling changes with time, it always has, but I don't understand using unnecessary words. I assume it is because just as English has many roots, American English is influenced by German, Spanish, and other immigrants.
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Post by Orbs on Jun 9, 2020 18:01:57 GMT
The English language is a confusing thing, even for many people who speak it as a native tongue. Very small variations in wording can make a huge difference to a meaning. For example, saying that "Rita Ora looked devastat ing as she emerged from the Night Club" is a world away from saying, in the same circumstances, that she looked devastat edMy favourite play on words or phrase of the moment was one that I heard in a Coronavirus briefing, discussing some aspect of antibodies, when a Scientist said that " Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." This has also reminded me of the overuse of the word ‘devastated.’ Folk are keen to use this when really they mean slightly inconvenienced or maybe a little bit upset. Trust me Karen, you aren’t devastated that the local Waitrose is being turned into an Aldi or that your car has failed it’s MOT and needs 2 new tyres.
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Post by Linx on Jun 9, 2020 18:48:13 GMT
To be honest Cokey , I've done it myself, many times.....I think the plural of lead should be lead...why not make things simpler, rather than creating a situation where someone becomes "wrong". I agree with your original post about texting. What does get me, but perhaps shouldn't, is the acceptance of American words, particularly the z for s.... advertize realize recognize stabilize etc. etc. Agreed. The worst Americanism for me is "off of" as in "He got off of the train". I accept spelling changes with time, it always has, but I don't understand using unnecessary words. I assume it is because just as English has many roots, American English is influenced by German, Spanish, and other immigrants. And the Irish. Never forget the Irish. I was in Boston on St Patrick’s Day. Chuff me it was Paddyland on steroids.
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Post by somersetstokie on Jun 9, 2020 19:31:33 GMT
To be honest Cokey , I've done it myself, many times.....I think the plural of lead should be lead...why not make things simpler, rather than creating a situation where someone becomes "wrong". I agree with your original post about texting. What does get me, but perhaps shouldn't, is the acceptance of American words, particularly the z for s.... advertize realize recognize stabilize etc. etc. Agreed. The worst Americanism for me is "off of" as in "He got off of the train". I accept spelling changes with time, it always has, but I don't understand using unnecessary words. I assume it is because just as English has many roots, American English is influenced by German, Spanish, and other immigrants. Interestingly there is a well known and often referenced comment: "America and England. Two countries divided by a common language." This is a phrase usually attributed to George Bernard Shaw (who was Irish!). The quote is also sometimes worded as "“England and America are two countries separated by the same language.” and has been thought to have been said by Churchill, amongst others.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jun 9, 2020 21:07:18 GMT
The English language is a confusing thing, even for many people who speak it as a native tongue. Very small variations in wording can make a huge difference to a meaning. For example, saying that "Rita Ora looked devastat ing as she emerged from the Night Club" is a world away from saying, in the same circumstances, that she looked devastat edMy favourite play on words or phrase of the moment was one that I heard in a Coronavirus briefing, discussing some aspect of antibodies, when a Scientist said that " Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." This has also reminded me of the overuse of the word ‘devastated.’ Folk are keen to use this when really they mean slightly inconvenienced or maybe a little bit upset. Trust me Karen, you aren’t devastated that the local Waitrose is being turned into an Aldi or that your car has failed it’s MOT and needs 2 new tyres. I'm very much guilty of it myself, and can't particularly think of an alternative in speech, but the use of " absolutely " is similar.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Jun 9, 2020 21:24:28 GMT
My daughter is one of those programmed to accompany every sentence with the word “like” 😫
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Post by chuffedstokie on Jun 9, 2020 22:02:01 GMT
The English language is a confusing thing, even for many people who speak it as a native tongue. Very small variations in wording can make a huge difference to a meaning. For example, saying that "Rita Ora looked devastat ing as she emerged from the Night Club" is a world away from saying, in the same circumstances, that she looked devastat edMy favourite play on words or phrase of the moment was one that I heard in a Coronavirus briefing, discussing some aspect of antibodies, when a Scientist said that " Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." This has also reminded me of the overuse of the word ‘devastated.’ Folk are keen to use this when really they mean slightly inconvenienced or maybe a little bit upset. Trust me Karen, you aren’t devastated that the local Waitrose is being turned into an Aldi or that your car has failed it’s MOT and needs 2 new tyres. Karens village would have been devastated after the earthquake.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Jun 9, 2020 22:07:39 GMT
I was devastated when the local Bargain Booze ran out of Tyskie the other day, there was literally nothing else in the shop. Like....
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Post by FbrgVaStkFan on Jun 9, 2020 22:39:33 GMT
Y'all are funny. Not absolutely funny or devastatingly funny...just good enough for a chuckle. Also, it's just three periods in a row, not ten, not four or five, just three. Wow, I feel better getting that off of my chest. Now then, shall we tackle one or two spaces after a period?
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Post by PotterLog on Jun 10, 2020 1:46:55 GMT
I always thought early doors was a pub reference, as when a pub opened its doors earlier than usual (or permitted?). It was the name of that Craig Cash sitcom as well...
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 10, 2020 6:55:09 GMT
The English language is a confusing thing, even for many people who speak it as a native tongue. Very small variations in wording can make a huge difference to a meaning. For example, saying that "Rita Ora looked devastat ing as she emerged from the Night Club" is a world away from saying, in the same circumstances, that she looked devastat edMy favourite play on words or phrase of the moment was one that I heard in a Coronavirus briefing, discussing some aspect of antibodies, when a Scientist said that " Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." This has also reminded me of the overuse of the word ‘devastated.’ Folk are keen to use this when really they mean slightly inconvenienced or maybe a little bit upset. Trust me Karen, you aren’t devastated that the local Waitrose is being turned into an Aldi or that your car has failed it’s MOT and needs 2 new tyres. Welsh Karen? No, she will be devastated by Waitrose closing...
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Post by elystokie on Jun 10, 2020 8:04:29 GMT
It's there, they're and their for me, don't know why, probably doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things I am always reminded, when discussions such as this arise, of the oft quoted war time message "Send three and fourpence we're going to a dance"
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Jun 10, 2020 10:23:27 GMT
I agree on the plurals thing - I find that really annoying. What annoys me is when these grammatical and spelling errors creep into mainstream media, which they regularly do. Those who should know better or at least have an editor who knows. Though I appreciate there isn't as much money in journalism as there used to be, there should be some standards. Like the mix up of your/you're. The clickbaity headlines, often exaggerations, are annoying too. They've found their way into national and local media. Such as "You'll Never Believe What This Tortoise Did Next..." "What [insert celebrity] Looks Like Now Will Blow Your Mind." They often have incorrect capitalisation. I also hate the over-exaggeration of everything in general conversation e.g. "that cake was epic." Unless you meant it humorously (most people don't these days), it wasn't an epic cake. Like "devastated," the example used above. It makes those words meaningless. Like the word "hate," which should be a very strong word, but people use in such a throwaway manner. Also, little American English annoyances like "off of." Not only is that adding an extra word (which goes against the convenience of shortening language), but it doesn't make sense. The same people who say "off of" miss out "of" in another context e.g. "I ate a couple slices." I'm amazed at the amount of people who say "I could care less" instead of "I couldn't care less." The proliferated use of "movie" instead of "film" in the UK annoys me too. It's always been the same though. If you look back through history, people have always complained about the modernisation, change and influence from elsewhere of language. It's very easy to make mistakes too. I just looked back on what I'd written and had written "their" instead of "there." I do find etymology and language differences interesting. Yesterday, I found out a "wallet" is what females use in US English. In UK English, it's for males. And there was the shock of a "fanny pack" in The Simpsons when I was a kid! There's an in-depth answer on "early doors" here: www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-ear1.htm
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Jun 10, 2020 10:28:46 GMT
Another Americanism which has crept in over recent years is, when you’re stood behind someone in a queue at one of these extortionate coffee places and they say “Can I get a Latte”. No you can’t get a Latte, I’ll get it for you and you can give me your money😏
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Post by Orbs on Jun 10, 2020 10:35:00 GMT
Another Americanism which has crept in over recent years is, when you’re stood behind someone in a queue at one of these extortionate coffee places and they say “Can I get a Latte”. No you can’t get a Latte, I’ll get it for you and you can give me your money😏 Bravo! I’d forgotten about this one.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Jun 10, 2020 10:36:00 GMT
Another Americanism which has crept in over recent years is, when you’re stood behind someone in a queue at one of these extortionate coffee places and they say “Can I get a Latte”. No you can’t get a Latte, I’ll get it for you and you can give me your money😏 Bravo! I’d forgotten about this one. No problem👍🏻
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Post by somersetstokie on Jun 10, 2020 10:55:14 GMT
Some good stuff there "Guys" from all of you. Or Gentlemen if you don't like the increasing use of Americanisms.
In an earlier post I did reference the often used quote, "America and England. Two countries divided by a common language."
I had cause to raise a slightly contentious issue last year focused on a regrettable choice of American, over English usage. I have a local historic pub that was once the Civic Gaol. The building dates back to the 1500's. The pub was recently redecorated, and some expensive hand stencilled sign boards were positioned on the outside of the building, to act as informative attention attracting texts, essentially for the benefit of tourists.
The body of the text included all the stuff you might expect about the history of the site, its use for imprisonment and torture, the presence of ghosts, and so on. Unfortunately the whole effect of the narratives was spoiled by the use of the word "Jail" in a number of places. It had to be pointed out to the management that this famous building was formerly a Gaol, in the English Middle Ages. It was never a Jail, which is an American term, introduced into this country in the 1930's with the popularity of the Monopoly board game. On the original board, if you look at the image of the "Policeman" pointing and saying go directly to Jail, this is an American Cop using an American expression. The word Jail was not known in this country until the early 20th century, and its use here detracted from the historic references and appeal of the pub signboards. These boards have now been repainted.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Jun 10, 2020 11:04:08 GMT
I’ve noticed the word “guys” is prevalent in the office environment. Not just men, women are also being called “guys” and women are calling each other “guys”. I’m not sure what it all means but it’s not for me. 🤷🏻♂️
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Post by mrcoke on Jun 10, 2020 11:08:38 GMT
I’ve noticed the word “guys” is prevalent in the office environment. Not just men, women are also being called “guys” and women are calling each other “guys”. I’m not sure what it all means but it’s not for me. 🤷🏻♂️ "Guys and gals" went out when JS died didn't it?
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Post by somersetstokie on Jun 10, 2020 11:17:01 GMT
I’ve noticed the word “guys” is prevalent in the office environment. Not just men, women are also being called “guys” and women are calling each other “guys”. I’m not sure what it all means but it’s not for me. 🤷🏻♂️ I think "Guys" is increasingly used in a situation where there are attempts to be "gender neutral." It seems to happen a lot in schools. Guys is a catch all term applied to both boys and girls, but also then covers men who "self identify as women" and the reverse, those who prefer the title Ms or Mz and so on. (Is it my imagination but is the use of the term Ms, meaning neither Miss or Mrs, already largely disappearing?) It is all a matter of political correctness. Another contemporary issue is the trend towards describing females as "Actors". Woman thespians were once referred to as "Actresses", although this could in some circumstances be a disparaging term, (as the actress said to the Bishop!). Now, in the visual media, you will often see some female being interviewed for a film review or the BAFTA awards and so on, and the descriptive caption underneath their image will be displayed as "Actor". Actresses are no more it would seem.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Jun 10, 2020 11:24:04 GMT
Just as baffling is the term Batsman, used to describe a female cricketer.
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Post by marylandstoke on Jun 10, 2020 11:26:46 GMT
I hd n cmptr prffsr tht cldnt lve vwls.
Was quite strident about it. The above is if you like a quick test. By the way, try typing that sentence with modern spell check, nightmare.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Jun 10, 2020 11:29:53 GMT
I hd n cmptr prffsr tht cldnt lve vwls. Was quite strident about it. The above is if you like a quick test. By the way, try typing that sentence with modern spell check, nightmare. I can see a vowel
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Post by murphthesurf on Jun 10, 2020 13:07:49 GMT
I hd n cmptr prffsr tht cldnt lve vwls. Was quite strident about it. The above is if you like a quick test. By the way, try typing that sentence with modern spell check, nightmare. I can see a vowel S cn
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Post by murphthesurf on Jun 10, 2020 13:17:07 GMT
I’ve noticed the word “guys” is prevalent in the office environment. Not just men, women are also being called “guys” and women are calling each other “guys”. I’m not sure what it all means but it’s not for me. 🤷🏻♂️ I think "Guys" is increasingly used in a situation where there are attempts to be "gender neutral." It seems to happen a lot in schools. Guys is a catch all term applied to both boys and girls, but also then covers men who "self identify as women" and the reverse, those who prefer the title Ms or Mz and so on. (Is it my imagination but is the use of the term Ms, meaning neither Miss or Mrs, already largely disappearing?) It is all a matter of political correctness. Another contemporary issue is the trend towards describing females as "Actors". Woman thespians were once referred to as "Actresses", although this could in some circumstances be a disparaging term, (as the actress said to the Bishop!). Now, in the visual media, you will often see some female being interviewed for a film review or the BAFTA awards and so on, and the descriptive caption underneath their image will be displayed as "Actor". Actresses are no more it would seem. Agreed. Another thing that makes me want to scream. I don't watch the Oscars evening, but I think they still say 'best actress', etc., otherwise it would be a bit tricky to differentiate unless they called one of the awards 'Best actor in a frock'. And I detest hearing 'you guys'.
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Post by murphthesurf on Jun 10, 2020 13:20:11 GMT
I’ve noticed the word “guys” is prevalent in the office environment. Not just men, women are also being called “guys” and women are calling each other “guys”. I’m not sure what it all means but it’s not for me. 🤷🏻♂️ "Guys and gals" went out when JS died didn't it? Only if you turn the 'and' into 'n' and then stick a warbly 'erererererererer' on the end of it, Coky.
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Post by murphthesurf on Jun 10, 2020 13:23:53 GMT
Just as baffling is the term Batsman, used to describe a female cricketer. Or in a committee, 'chairman' is now usually 'chair' or 'chairperson'. Aaaaaaggghhhhh! What on earth's wrong with the term 'chairman' regardless of gender?
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Post by murphthesurf on Jun 10, 2020 13:32:32 GMT
Another Americanism which has crept in over recent years is, when you’re stood behind someone in a queue at one of these extortionate coffee places and they say “Can I get a Latte”. No you can’t get a Latte, I’ll get it for you and you can give me your money😏 Exactly! Another is: "How are you?""I'm good." "No, you bloody well are NOT. You did 15 years in Pentonville for armed robbery in the 1990s - I was just asking if that bout of food poisoning you had a couple of days ago has cleared up yet."
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