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Post by Rednwhitenblue on May 15, 2020 15:04:45 GMT
I hope so. He's exactly what this country needs - a leader in the middle ground who will chart that difficult course between allowing business and enterprise to flourish, while using the benefits of a healthy, well-regulated economy to improve the lives of ordinary people and the public services they depend upon. Not some over-privileged bluffing and blustering arsehole who makes it up as he goes along, treats it all as his birthright and a bit of a joke, safe in the knowledge that he's made for life anyway and will make even more once he steps down, nor some backbench agit-prop ex-Marxist campaigner who's spent far too long on the idealistic fringes to know what compromises would be necessary to successfully run anything, let alone a country. Ignore the sharp suit and "forensic" PMQ's and I don't know what Starmer stands for, nor what his vision for the party or the country is. At the moment we have no way of knowing whether he is what the country needs other than "he's not Boris Johnson" I wouldn't disagree. Apart from the fact that this country will never vote for real change - it's terrified of it! That's why you only ever get right wing or centrist parties being elected, especially with our electoral system. I'm not disagreeing with you, just stating a fact. With regard to not knowing what he stands for, I would give Starmer time and you'll see what kind of a Labour opposition emerges - he'll slowly lose the unelectable far left element imo. It's all very well demanding real change and standing on that platform - but not if you never get a chance to enact it! |
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2020 15:15:48 GMT
This country needs real change. Ignore the sharp suit and "forensic" PMQ's and I don't know what Starmer stands for, nor what his vision for the party or the country is. At the moment we have no way of knowing whether he is what the country needs other than "he's not Boris Johnson" I wouldn't disagree. Apart from the fact that this country will never vote for real change - it's terrified of it! That's why you only ever get right wing or centrist parties being elected, especially with our electoral system. I'm not disagreeing with you, just stating a fact. I would give Starmer time and you'll see what kind of a Labour opposition emerges - he'll slowly lose the far left element. It's all very well demanding real change and standing on that platform - but not if you never get a chance to enact it! I'm fairly certain what Labour Party will emerge, it will be New Labour reincarnated. That's obvious from his shadow cabinet, the noise some of his MP's are making around the unions, help for renters etc. If real change wasn't possible then black people would still be sitting at the back of the bus, of course it is it just takes a lot of collective effort. Other countries in Scandinavia, the likes of Portugal etc. can manage it so the UK can also. With the backing of the PLP putting up a united front, Corbyn could have easily got into power in 2017, those who choose to mock and belittle him will continue to do so but it's absolutely true. You seem confident that Starmer will come up trumps, I've seen nothing to suggest that at the moment but time will tell I guess...... |
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Post by sheikhmomo on May 15, 2020 15:41:31 GMT
It certainly wasn't just social distancing that kept both Bridget Phillipson and Steven Barclay a million miles away from Mick Cash on Question Time last night.
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2020 15:43:40 GMT
It certainly wasn't just social distancing that kept both Bridget Phillipson and Steven Barclay a million miles away from Mick Cash on Question Time last night. Who is Bridget Phillipson by the way? She was like a robot, I half expected sparks to start flying out of her back when she was asked a difficult question..... |
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Post by RedandWhite90 on May 15, 2020 15:44:42 GMT
Quote astonishing that Government ministers are retweeting far right propaganda (all of which, is of course false) and despite deleting the tweet and going into hiding sorry does indeed seem to be the hardest word. In addition the amount of law experts that are now cropping up to discredit Starmers previous work is as certain as night follows day. Unless of course you are an expert in law at which point I'll happily listen to some more of this bollocks  Oh I see the old Labour defence nothing is our fault it just happens when we are in charge whereas the tories are of course responsible if the procurement manager at great yarmouth hospital gets white bread instead of brown bread. I'm not sure what this drivel is but I see it has absolutely zero to do with the responce I gave to your original and ridiculous comment. You can have another go if you like? |
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Post by sheikhmomo on May 15, 2020 15:51:24 GMT
It certainly wasn't just social distancing that kept both Bridget Phillipson and Steven Barclay a million miles away from Mick Cash on Question Time last night. Who is Bridget Phillipson by the way? She was like a robot, I half expected sparks to start flying out of her back when she was asked a difficult question..... That's the first time I've seen her in that format and she was terrible wasn't she. Her and Dodds hardly strike you as a firebrand radical economic team do they! Cash looked at her askance at times when she refused to 'dive in' on a couple of issues. Worrying and disappointing times. |
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Post by RedandWhite90 on May 15, 2020 15:54:32 GMT
Quote astonishing that Government ministers are retweeting far right propaganda (all of which, is of course false) and despite deleting the tweet and going into hiding sorry does indeed seem to be the hardest word. In addition the amount of law experts that are now cropping up to discredit Starmers previous work is as certain as night follows day. Unless of course you are an expert in law at which point I'll happily listen to some more of this bollocks Labour centrists all over Twitter, in the PLP and in the media "This is a disgrace how can Starmer be smeared like this" The same people who engaged in the smearing of Jeremy Corbyn when Labour were ahead in the polls in 2017 and helped facilitate a Tory landslide. You have to laugh at the hypocrisy of it all, the lack of self awareness and the sheer entitlement seeps out of every pore....... I genuinely do not no the answer to this and I am happy to be proven wrong but I can't recall where multiple Conservative MP's shared a heavily doctored video by far right organisation resulting in a reprimand (however loose and pathetic) by the Torie whips? I do certainly believe that Jeremy was treated unfairly by the media but there were still huge concerns over his past involvement/friendships/acquaintances with certain groups and his ability to lead. For what it's worth I voted for Labour at the last 2 elections but mainly out of my total disgust at the opposition. If there were to be an election tomorrow I would happily throw my weight behind Starmer and would be voting on the belief that he would do a good job. |
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2020 16:03:17 GMT
Labour centrists all over Twitter, in the PLP and in the media "This is a disgrace how can Starmer be smeared like this" The same people who engaged in the smearing of Jeremy Corbyn when Labour were ahead in the polls in 2017 and helped facilitate a Tory landslide. You have to laugh at the hypocrisy of it all, the lack of self awareness and the sheer entitlement seeps out of every pore....... I genuinely do not no the answer to this and I am happy to be proven wrong but I can't recall where multiple Conservative MP's shared a heavily doctored video by far right organisation resulting in a reprimand (however loose and pathetic) by the Torie whips? I do certainly believe that Jeremy was treated unfairly by the media but there were still huge concerns over his past involvement/friendships/acquaintances with certain groups and his ability to lead. For what it's worth I voted for Labour at the last 2 elections but mainly out of my total disgust at the opposition. If there were to be an election tomorrow I would happily throw my weight behind Starmer and would be voting on the belief that he would do a good job. Tory MP's openly called him antisemitic. He should have sued the arse of them but it's not his style and more fool him in hindsight. He tried to unite those in the party who undermined him from day one, again the wrong call. Some of the rhetoric towards Corbyn in the press was way beyond the pale, I hope for Starmer's sake he doesn't suffer the same fate..... |
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Post by RedandWhite90 on May 15, 2020 16:10:32 GMT
I genuinely do not no the answer to this and I am happy to be proven wrong but I can't recall where multiple Conservative MP's shared a heavily doctored video by far right organisation resulting in a reprimand (however loose and pathetic) by the Torie whips? I do certainly believe that Jeremy was treated unfairly by the media but there were still huge concerns over his past involvement/friendships/acquaintances with certain groups and his ability to lead. For what it's worth I voted for Labour at the last 2 elections but mainly out of my total disgust at the opposition. If there were to be an election tomorrow I would happily throw my weight behind Starmer and would be voting on the belief that he would do a good job. Tory MP's openly called him antisemitic. He should have sued the arse of them but it's not his style and more fool him in hindsight. He tried to unite those in the party who undermined him from day one, again the wrong call. Some of the rhetoric towards Corbyn in the press was way beyond the pale, I hope for Starmer's sake he doesn't suffer the same fate..... I don't particularly want to get into the anti-semitism row mainly as I'm not really in a position to comment first hand on how that would impact someone's life. I'll leave it to you to decide if you think that under his leadership people who are directly affected by anti-semitism would have felt safe and or supported firstly be he himself as leader and secondly by the movement that follows him in an almost cult like status. |
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2020 16:16:57 GMT
Tory MP's openly called him antisemitic. He should have sued the arse of them but it's not his style and more fool him in hindsight. He tried to unite those in the party who undermined him from day one, again the wrong call. Some of the rhetoric towards Corbyn in the press was way beyond the pale, I hope for Starmer's sake he doesn't suffer the same fate..... I don't particularly want to get into the anti-semitism row mainly as I'm not really in a position to comment first hand on how that would impact someone's life. I'll leave it to you to decide if you think that under his leadership people who are directly affected by anti-semitism would have felt safe and or supported firstly be he himself as leader and secondly by the movement that follows him in an almost cult like status. I'm simply offering my opinion on the subject that's all. They're would of course be entitled to theirs. The whole cult argument I simply don't buy, the followers of Johnson defending his every move are a cult in that case, as are the legions of people queuing up to tell us how forensic Starmer is....... |
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Post by RedandWhite90 on May 15, 2020 16:47:59 GMT
I don't particularly want to get into the anti-semitism row mainly as I'm not really in a position to comment first hand on how that would impact someone's life. I'll leave it to you to decide if you think that under his leadership people who are directly affected by anti-semitism would have felt safe and or supported firstly be he himself as leader and secondly by the movement that follows him in an almost cult like status. I'm simply offering my opinion on the subject that's all. They're would of course be entitled to theirs. The whole cult argument I simply don't buy, the followers of Johnson defending his every move are a cult in that case, as are the legions of people queuing up to tell us how forensic Starmer is....... Yes Boris has his cult too, absolutely. Not sure it has been quite long enough for Starmer to have a cult like following but time will tell. He will most definitely appeal to a broader spectrum of voters though in particular to those in the marginal areas, so whilst I held my nose somewhat with JC it will be important for the socialist wing to hold theirs next time around. |
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2020 16:50:12 GMT
I'm simply offering my opinion on the subject that's all. They're would of course be entitled to theirs. The whole cult argument I simply don't buy, the followers of Johnson defending his every move are a cult in that case, as are the legions of people queuing up to tell us how forensic Starmer is....... Yes Boris has his cult too, absolutely. Not sure it has been quite long enough for Starmer to have a cult like following but time will tell. He will most definitely appeal to a broader spectrum of voters though in particular to those in the marginal areas, so whilst I held my nose somewhat with JC it will be important for the socialist wing to hold theirs next time around. We'll see. The polls don't suggest that at the moment but its early days..... |
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Post by bathstoke on May 15, 2020 18:15:48 GMT
They neither know contrition nor remorse, because that’s the nature of mammon💵💴💶💷 |
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Post by thevoid on May 15, 2020 21:23:26 GMT
I'm simply offering my opinion on the subject that's all. They're would of course be entitled to theirs. The whole cult argument I simply don't buy, the followers of Johnson defending his every move are a cult in that case, as are the legions of people queuing up to tell us how forensic Starmer is....... Yes Boris has his cult too, absolutely. Not sure it has been quite long enough for Starmer to have a cult like following but time will tell. He will most definitely appeal to a broader spectrum of voters though in particular to those in the marginal areas, so whilst I held my nose somewhat with JC it will be important for the socialist wing to hold theirs next time around. I'm assuming Starmer won't be attending any Provo funerals anytime soon, so he should have plenty of credit in the bank. |
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2020 10:52:08 GMT
Forget Starmer's "forensic" performances on PMQ's, it's on issues like this that he should be judged ultimately......
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2020 17:39:14 GMT
Another move to the centre ground by Labour..........
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Post by partickpotter on May 28, 2020 8:40:57 GMT
Forget Starmer's "forensic" performances on PMQ's, it's on issues like this that he should be judged ultimately...... Nice to see Labour talking about wealth creation, even placing it on the same footing as wealth distribution. |
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2020 8:50:51 GMT
Forget Starmer's "forensic" performances on PMQ's, it's on issues like this that he should be judged ultimately...... Nice to see Labour talking about wealth creation, even placing it on the same footing as wealth distribution. I closed my eyes then and imagined it was Tony Blair saying that....... |
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Post by followyoudown on May 28, 2020 11:52:10 GMT
Oh dear Kier rules are rules you say lets see you deal with this one.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2020 13:57:29 GMT
Must be time for a PLP coup, this Starmer fella isn't cutting the mustard.....  |
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 4, 2020 16:32:57 GMT
Seems to be going ok so far...? I wonder if people are starting to see through Boris's bluff and bluster for what it is?  |
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Post by RichieBarkerOut! on Jun 9, 2020 16:43:33 GMT
Seems to be going ok so far...? I wonder if people are starting to see through Boris's bluff and bluster for what it is? I see that chart as saying that Labour and Conservatives = a big cock. |
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Post by salopstick on Jun 19, 2020 5:54:07 GMT
Election 2019: New leader not enough to win again, Labour warned www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-53096233Judging by what’s going on the left will never learn. They still think being anti-everything government does will get them back in. |
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Post by partickpotter on Jun 19, 2020 9:28:29 GMT
Election 2019: New leader not enough to win again, Labour warned www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-53096233Judging by what’s going on the left will never learn. They still think being anti-everything government does will get them back in. Oppositions don’t win elections, governments lose them. 1979 - Callaghan lost due to the Winter of Discontent (and the general miserable state of the country in the second half of the 70s) 1997 - Major lost due to Black Wednesday (and buckets full of sleaze) 2010 - Brown lost due to the financial crisis (and Gillian Duffy!). Of course, oppositions can lose elections too - as we saw last time round and 1983 (longest suicide note in history) and 1992 (all right, all right, all right) Labour’s best hope therefore is the Tories fuck up so badly voters decide they can’t be trusted while at the same time avoiding shooting themselves in the foot. In that regards, Starmer may well turn out to be a good choice as leader - dull as ditchwater, but not likely to mess up on a grand scale. |
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 19, 2020 9:51:03 GMT
Election 2019: New leader not enough to win again, Labour warned www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-53096233Judging by what’s going on the left will never learn. They still think being anti-everything government does will get them back in. Oppositions don’t win elections, governments lose them. 1979 - Callaghan lost due to the Winter of Discontent (and the general miserable state of the country in the second half of the 70s) 1997 - Major lost due to Black Wednesday (and buckets full of sleaze) 2010 - Brown lost due to the financial crisis (and Gillian Duffy!). Of course, oppositions can lose elections too - as we saw last time round and 1983 (longest suicide note in history) and 1992 (all right, all right, all right) Labour’s best hope therefore is the Tories fuck up so badly voters decide they can’t be trusted while at the same time avoiding shooting themselves in the foot. In that regards, Starmer may well turn out to be a good choice as leader - dull as ditchwater, but not likely to mess up on a grand scale. It's obviously a lot more complicated than that. You have to factor in whether the opposition is considered electable by people and that is often influenced by how the opposition is portrayed in the media and press. England is a right wing country by and large and has been for almost half a century. The only oppositions that will get elected in this country now are those which are capable of providing a centrist government which isn't seen as a threat by the established political and press order. Anyone who thinks the press don't significantly affect how people vote is deluding themselves. You have to remember that 9/10 people don't give a fuck about politics and know even less. They see headlines, pick up on soundbites and that's about as deep as their interest goes. Then they vote accordingly. You can already see how Starmer is being treated differently by the press and media. That's purely because he's a centrist politician by and large who doesn't threaten the status quo, and that will influence popular opinion too. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2020 15:17:51 GMT
Anyone but Corbyn would be 20 points ahead in the polls they said......
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Post by wagsastokie on Jul 11, 2020 16:45:27 GMT
Anyone but Corbyn would be 20 points ahead in the polls they said...... I wonder if this thread would be so quite if the gap had tightened |
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 11, 2020 20:40:57 GMT
Anyone but Corbyn would be 20 points ahead in the polls they said...... I wonder if this thread would be so quite if the gap had tightened It's probably "quite" because not much has changed recently and followyoudown is still rounding up his toys after chucking them out the pram...but overall 26% behind in the first poll after becoming leader to 4% behind now, isn't bad going. www.opinium.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Opinium-Political-Report-9th-July-2020.pdf |
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Post by nicholasjalcock on Jul 12, 2020 5:21:37 GMT
Starmer’s doing O.K.. YouGov always has a pro Tory lean whereas Opinium has a slight Labour lean. When Covid is an issue Boris struggles but when Brexit is the leading issue Boris’s poll ratings improve. We are just 5 months from the deadline of leaving? So, we’ll see if the Tories mess up again? My guess is we’ll get a poor deal with lipstick on it a bit like a pig? Then there’s a deal with Trump though it looks like Trump will be enjoying his retirement? So, we live in interesting times? |
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 12, 2020 8:33:27 GMT
Starmer’s doing O.K.. YouGov always has a pro Tory lean whereas Opinium has a slight Labour lean. When Covid is an issue Boris struggles but when Brexit is the leading issue Boris’s poll ratings improve. We are just 5 months from the deadline of leaving? So, we’ll see if the Tories mess up again? My guess is we’ll get a poor deal with lipstick on it a bit like a pig? Then there’s a deal with Trump though it looks like Trump will be enjoying his retirement? So, we live in interesting times? I think the Tories will get a boost in voting intention regardless of whether there's a deal or not and what kind of deal if there is one. The fundamental attitude of most Britons (who don't really give much of a shit about politics or understand it, which is most of them) is that they never want to hear of Brexit again, which is mainly why the Bluffer got an 80 seat majority. They don't really care about deal or no deal, WTO or single market, whether it damages the country or not, they just want it done and to go away so it's all over. For all his faults, Cummings reads the public very well (he's essentially the Bluffer's Alistair Campbell). He knows this and this is why they're not worried in electoral terms what happens in terms of a deal or not by the end of the year. Once we've left, you'll see the Tories' popularity rise. Those who are more interested in politics and understand the ramifications of whatever deal/no deal scenario transpires will react accordingly, but the vast majority of the electorate won't really care: they will have got their wish to never hear of Brexit again and will be relieved/pleased purely on that score and signal their voting intentions accordingly at the time. Only when the implications of Brexit on the UK start to become more apparent might the approval ratings start to fall, but by then that "won't be because of Brexit, it'll be because the government is just a bit shit". Some time needs to elapse before people will be able to bring themselves to dislike a government which provided them with what they really crave: never hearing about Brexit again. (You also need to take into account the Bluffer's personality cult which appeals to people who don't have much interest in politics. He's a character. That's as far as a lot of voters' interest goes). |
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