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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2020 14:08:42 GMT
Check out his life up to 18 and you might have an idea about why he joined the IRA. Wiki say's his family got threatened because they lived in protestant areas and he was bullied at school and work. Anymore? I don't think people realise what a horrific place it was to live and how people were hounded out of their homes etc and never will to be fair. Mandela's people was involved in some serious atrocities including people being physically nailed down and set on fire. He never denied his involvement of course |
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Post by partickpotter on May 6, 2020 15:05:28 GMT
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Post by lordb on May 6, 2020 16:13:03 GMT
at some point (probably many times) Johnson's off the cuff flippancy is going to be caught out by Starmer's lawyers style. On other occasions Johnson will score points against Starmer's perceived dullness. personalities are in my view far more important than policies when it comes to who votes for who long time till next election & Labour have an enormous number of seats to win |
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Post by RedandWhite90 on May 6, 2020 16:26:46 GMT
A more balanced opinion from the Evening Standard 😂 Owners - Alexander Lebedev & Family (65% share) Russian Oligarch with some seriously interesting political views. His son is 'alleged' to be one of 9 mystery Russian donard to... well I'm sure you can work it out. The Daily Mail Trust (25% share) Well known newspaper for its balanced and politically unbiased stance in UK politics. Mainly read by people who like to become angry about anyone but themselves. Editor - George Osborne Previous Conservative Chancellor. Overall Politcal alignment - Conservative So overall it's about as balanced as I would be in a debate about who the better football team is in Stoke-on-Trent of which team I feel is Pride of the Potteries. The best thing you can do is listen to the 10 minute exchange and form your own opinion on who sounds like they came out on top. Our national media is complete gutter. |
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on May 6, 2020 16:48:29 GMT
Wiki say's his family got threatened because they lived in protestant areas and he was bullied at school and work. Anymore? I think twice being hounded out of house, home and employment under threats of death probably sums it up a bit more accurately. Shocking but not unique. Arlene Foster's Dad was shot and wounded in a murder attempt and a school bus she was travelling on was bombed by the IRA. Is that an excuse to then try to murder innocent civilians? |
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Post by zerps on May 6, 2020 19:21:29 GMT
She's not Jewish. We're you just assuming she was because of the size of her nose or something? That's pretty antisemitic...... She’s got a sideways fanny |
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on May 6, 2020 21:25:27 GMT
I think today showed why Johnson runs away from serious interviews like when he chickened out of seeing Andrew Neil. It won't always be so easy for Starmer, particularly when he has to explain Labour's own policies, but today, without the usual bluster, Johnson looked cruelly exposed and inadequate.
I think it also showed how much better PMQ's is without the usual pantomime from both sides of the House.
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Post by RichieBarkerOut! on May 7, 2020 9:46:42 GMT
at some point (probably many times) Johnson's off the cuff flippancy is going to be caught out by Starmer's lawyers style. On other occasions Johnson will score points against Starmer's perceived dullness. personalities are in my view far more important than policies when it comes to who votes for who long time till next election & Labour have an enormous number of seats to win I thought PMQs was a bit odd yesterday, Boris was certainly not himself and I thought that Starmer went easy on him compared to how he dealt with Raab. Starmer has gone from a no hoper to a contender in three weeks flat and Boris is currently hugely vulnerable and Boris knows it. Johnson needs to get his and the governments act together as Starmer will kill him with a thousand cuts. Whether Starmer's personality will work against him will be a question of timing, in a time of crisis (and putting political party considerations to one side) I think people would prefer someone like Starmer in charge, much in the same way as they booted Churchill out after the war. If the economy is doing well in three years, then people will want optimistic Boris, if we're still in the shit, Boris will be toast. |
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Post by followyoudown on May 7, 2020 10:00:19 GMT
at some point (probably many times) Johnson's off the cuff flippancy is going to be caught out by Starmer's lawyers style. On other occasions Johnson will score points against Starmer's perceived dullness. personalities are in my view far more important than policies when it comes to who votes for who long time till next election & Labour have an enormous number of seats to win I thought PMQs was a bit odd yesterday, Boris was certainly not himself and I thought that Starmer went easy on him compared to how he dealt with Raab. Starmer has gone from a no hoper to a contender in three weeks flat and Boris is currently hugely vulnerable and Boris knows it. Johnson needs to get his and the governments act together as Starmer will kill him with a thousand cuts. Whether Starmer's personality will work against him will be a question of timing, in a time of crisis (and putting political party considerations to one side) I think people would prefer someone like Starmer in charge, much in the same way as they booted Churchill out after the war. If the economy is doing well in three years, then people will want optimistic Boris, if we're still in the shit, Boris will be toast. PMQ's has next to zero cut through with the general public, the economy will be the biggest decider at the next election but you also need to add into the mix the fact that Labour is facing fines and legal cost of £20m+ in relation to leaking their own fake it wasnt corbyn anti semitism report, thats before all the libel and other claims that come out of the EHRC report so there is a pretty good chance the labour party as it is now wont exist in 3 or 4 years time and there will be some sort of new party or probably new parties judging by friendly and comradely they are in which case its most likely all their efforts will be spent as now fighting the real enemy, themselves....... |
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Post by RichieBarkerOut! on May 7, 2020 10:11:26 GMT
I thought PMQs was a bit odd yesterday, Boris was certainly not himself and I thought that Starmer went easy on him compared to how he dealt with Raab. Starmer has gone from a no hoper to a contender in three weeks flat and Boris is currently hugely vulnerable and Boris knows it. Johnson needs to get his and the governments act together as Starmer will kill him with a thousand cuts. Whether Starmer's personality will work against him will be a question of timing, in a time of crisis (and putting political party considerations to one side) I think people would prefer someone like Starmer in charge, much in the same way as they booted Churchill out after the war. If the economy is doing well in three years, then people will want optimistic Boris, if we're still in the shit, Boris will be toast. PMQ's has next to zero cut through with the general public, the economy will be the biggest decider at the next election but you also need to add into the mix the fact that Labour is facing fines and legal cost of £20m+ in relation to leaking their own fake it wasnt corbyn anti semitism report, thats before all the libel and other claims that come out of the EHRC report so there is a pretty good chance the labour party as it is now wont exist in 3 or 4 years time and there will be some sort of new party or probably new parties judging by friendly and comradely they are in which case its most likely all their efforts will be spent as now fighting the real enemy, themselves....... I agree with you, Starmer's biggest problem is his own party. It's not the first time Labour have had to reinvent themselves to get elected though, and Starmer will know that all too well. He's a bit like Matt LeTissier playing for Southampton or more accurately in this analogy, Port Vale. Starmer has to come up with something that's not akin to "New Labour" and his job is going to be harder than the one that Blair had as everyone will be comparing him to that self serving lying twat. |
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2020 12:31:36 GMT
I think twice being hounded out of house, home and employment under threats of death probably sums it up a bit more accurately. Shocking but not unique. Arlene Foster's Dad was shot and wounded in a murder attempt and a school bus she was travelling on was bombed by the IRA. Is that an excuse to then try to murder innocent civilians? The British Army killed approx 750 innocent civilians during the troubles . No one ever mentions that. When Mrs Thatcher called Mandela a terrorist she was right. He was being funded by Gadaffi who he called his 'brother'. Mandela's Grandson is also called Gadaffi in honour of him. Again, rarely mentioned. |
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on May 7, 2020 15:57:53 GMT
Shocking but not unique. Arlene Foster's Dad was shot and wounded in a murder attempt and a school bus she was travelling on was bombed by the IRA. Is that an excuse to then try to murder innocent civilians? The British Army killed approx 750 innocent civilians during the troubles . No one ever mentions that. When Mrs Thatcher called Mandela a terrorist she was right. He was being funded by Gadaffi who he called his 'brother'. Mandela's Grandson is also called Gadaffi in honour of him. Again, rarely mentioned. Well, 750 innocent civilians is one point of view I suppose. |
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2020 16:42:28 GMT
The British Army killed approx 750 innocent civilians during the troubles . No one ever mentions that. When Mrs Thatcher called Mandela a terrorist she was right. He was being funded by Gadaffi who he called his 'brother'. Mandela's Grandson is also called Gadaffi in honour of him. Again, rarely mentioned. Well, 750 innocent civilians is one point of view I suppose. Not one point,is a fact. That doesn't include members of any military organisations. Simply civilians |
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Post by lordb on May 7, 2020 17:50:41 GMT
I don't understand how anyone can take sides re Northern Ireland and claim the moral high ground
Appalling atrocities all round.
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Post by sheikhmomo on May 7, 2020 18:45:41 GMT
The British Army killed approx 750 innocent civilians during the troubles . No one ever mentions that. When Mrs Thatcher called Mandela a terrorist she was right. He was being funded by Gadaffi who he called his 'brother'. Mandela's Grandson is also called Gadaffi in honour of him. Again, rarely mentioned. Well, 750 innocent civilians is one point of view I suppose. You're quite binary on the troubles dodge. An estimated 150,000 people went to to Sands' funeral. To put that in to context, that's a tenth of the entire population of NI. What do you think of them? All terrorists and criminals or do you think that it is a more complex issue? |
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2020 19:10:44 GMT
I don't understand how anyone can take sides re Northern Ireland and claim the moral high ground Appalling atrocities all round. Certainly none of us who haven't lived through it. I once worked with a lad who grew up in a small village just outside of Belfast, and as a 7 year old lad witnessed his mum and dad getting dragged out of the pub they lived in by the IRA, with guns to their heads. All because they served British soldiers who were based in a camp just down the road. He told me that was classed as a friendly warning. That's just the tip of the Iceberg I should imagine (see, point in case. Haven't got a clue). How do you deal with that and surely that changes your viewpoint depending or regardless of what side you found yourself on? |
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Post by thevoid on May 7, 2020 19:35:18 GMT
Well, 750 innocent civilians is one point of view I suppose. You're quite binary on the troubles dodge. An estimated 150,000 people went to to Sands' funeral. To put that in to context, that's a tenth of the entire population of NI. What do you think of them? All terrorists and criminals or do you think that it is a more complex issue? Whilst we're talking binary mate, you've given less abuse on here to Bobby Sands, a man affiliated to a group who've killed hundreds of our fellow countrymen (and kids), than you have to a glorified football hooligan who, despite being a bit of a gobshite, can be linked to zero murders. Just saying... |
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Post by sheikhmomo on May 7, 2020 19:40:49 GMT
You're quite binary on the troubles dodge. An estimated 150,000 people went to to Sands' funeral. To put that in to context, that's a tenth of the entire population of NI. What do you think of them? All terrorists and criminals or do you think that it is a more complex issue? Whilst we're talking binary mate, you've given less abuse on here to Bobby Sands, a man affiliated to a group who've killed hundreds of our fellow countrymen (and kids), than you have to a glorified football hooligan who, despite being a bit of a gobshite, can be linked to zero murders. Just saying... As strawmen go that's exceptionally 'strawy' mate! |
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Post by thevoid on May 7, 2020 20:53:00 GMT
Whilst we're talking binary mate, you've given less abuse on here to Bobby Sands, a man affiliated to a group who've killed hundreds of our fellow countrymen (and kids), than you have to a glorified football hooligan who, despite being a bit of a gobshite, can be linked to zero murders. Just saying... As strawmen go that's exceptionally 'strawy' mate! Not really. For people like Bobby Sands and his associates you're willing to assess all the subtle nuances behind it but God forbid anyone who might lean towards any group who sit to the right of the spectrum and it's a different story altogether. Just an observation. |
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on May 7, 2020 20:53:47 GMT
Well, 750 innocent civilians is one point of view I suppose. You're quite binary on the troubles dodge. An estimated 150,000 people went to to Sands' funeral. To put that in to context, that's a tenth of the entire population of NI. What do you think of them? All terrorists and criminals or do you think that it is a more complex issue? I'm sure many were terrorists and criminals and the vast majority were sympathetic to his murderous cause. It's not that complex mate. |
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on May 7, 2020 20:55:08 GMT
Well, 750 innocent civilians is one point of view I suppose. Not one point,is a fact. That doesn't include members of any military organisations. Simply civilians Got a credible link to that "fact"? |
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on May 7, 2020 20:57:14 GMT
Clap for the cameras. There's a good lad.
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Post by followyoudown on May 8, 2020 8:27:55 GMT
Clap for the cameras. There's a good lad. Thats just so he can bring his daughter out without her being on camera not as its being made out thats its just clapping for publicity. Play the ball not the man be better than the lefties Rog. Obviously when you have let off as many nonces as Sir Kier has you can understand him not wanting his daughters picture everywhere  |
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Post by followyoudown on May 8, 2020 8:29:40 GMT
I am genuinally shocked this is how corbyn meetings went, who'd have thought it they probably spent the first week or two arguing over the correct pronoun for the chair of the meeting.
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Post by Eggybread on May 8, 2020 11:03:55 GMT
Clap for the cameras. There's a good lad. What is wrong with this? Reporter asks keir if he can film him ,keir agrees and then asks him if he has got his shot. People who look for trouble always find it. |
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Post by bathstoke on May 8, 2020 12:02:29 GMT
Clap for the cameras. There's a good lad. What is wrong with this? Reporter asks keir if he can film him ,keir agrees and then asks him if he has got his shot. People who look for trouble always find it. You wouldn’t want Todger with you if it came to trouble. He’s the sort to start it, then make himself scarce when it came to it🤣 |
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on May 8, 2020 14:46:35 GMT
What is wrong with this? Reporter asks keir if he can film him ,keir agrees and then asks him if he has got his shot. People who look for trouble always find it. You wouldn’t want Todger with you if it came to trouble. He’s the sort to start it, then make himself scarce when it came to it🤣 This lockdown making you brave Bath? You've got a lockdown AND a keyboard to hide behind. Double hard. |
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on May 8, 2020 14:48:43 GMT
Clap for the cameras. There's a good lad. What is wrong with this? Reporter asks keir if he can film him ,keir agrees and then asks him if he has got his shot. People who look for trouble always find it. I know the context and I know his daughter was across the street but what if the cameraman said 'Er.... no, can I have another 5 seconds, or can you turn a little to your left'? You don't ask permission if you're being yourself. |
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on May 8, 2020 14:53:34 GMT
I am genuinally shocked this is how corbyn meetings went, who'd have thought it they probably spent the first week or two arguing over the correct pronoun for the chair of the meeting. Old Charlie Falconer forgets that Starmer was front and centre in these meetings. |
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Post by bathstoke on May 8, 2020 15:03:24 GMT
You wouldn’t want Todger with you if it came to trouble. He’s the sort to start it, then make himself scarce when it came to it🤣 This lockdown making you brave Bath? You've got a lockdown AND a keyboard to hide behind. Double hard. 👜💋 |
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