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Post by prestwichpotter on May 14, 2021 21:32:27 GMT
I personally think the Internationalism is important as is an ethical foreign policy. Whilst it’s not a vote winner per se I think it’s a bit patronising to suggest that people in council houses or from “the red wall” don’t care about injustice in Palestine or wherever. You only have to look at the acts of solidarity over the years from the working classes towards people from all corners of the globe. It’s not particularly difficult to focus on domestic and foreign issues side by side....... It's not "or wherever" though is it Its whatever someone chooses to be concerned about, currently it’s clearly Israel/Palestine in the news......
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Post by Dave the Rave on May 14, 2021 21:34:04 GMT
It's not "or wherever" though is it Its whatever someone chooses to be concerned about, currently it’s clearly Israel/Palestine in the news...... Caring about people in bad situations makes you woke. We don't like wokies round here.
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Post by PotterLog on May 14, 2021 21:41:35 GMT
It's not "or wherever" though is it Its whatever someone chooses to be concerned about, currently it’s clearly Israel/Palestine in the news...... Come off it, (certain prominent sections of) Labour and the left are completely obsessed with Palestine and Israel and I'm sure you know it. You can't move for Palestine flags at conference. Nobody's going to buy "just happens to be in the news"
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on May 14, 2021 22:04:31 GMT
"Hey guys, I know we got dicked in 2019 and we again got dicked just a few days ago because people think we're so out-of-touch & don't give a shit about British people but I've solved all our problems... Are you ready?... Palestine, Palestine, Palestine!!!" You have to go back four days on Labour's Twitter timeline to see any mention of Palestine, and that is a single tweet from Starmer. That's it.
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Post by Soro's Sorrows on May 14, 2021 22:13:14 GMT
Do you think it's what Labour should be focusing on? Do you think it's a vote winner? Do you think it's something that will win back 'The Red Wall'? I personally think the Internationalism is important as is an ethical foreign policy. Whilst it’s not a vote winner per se I think it’s a bit patronising to suggest that people in council houses or from “the red wall” don’t care about injustice in Palestine or wherever. You only have to look at the acts of solidarity over the years from the working classes towards people from all corners of the globe. It’s not particularly difficult to focus on domestic and foreign issues side by side....... You are right it isn't a vote winner. It's not patronising either, it's borderline delusional! The people in council houses (and I come from one of them) are not particularly interested in the left's perceived injustice in Palestine. They are not particularly interested in the right's of Jews or Muslims in the Middle East. They are interested in their jobs, their housing, their family and their friends. Your average Red wall voter doesn't have family or friends in the Middle East, it is just another news story from another part of the world that has no direct impact on their lives. This is where Jeremy and you have gone so very wrong. There is no brotherhood between Hamas and a local group protesting against the closure of a Maternity Ward in the north east. There is no sisterhood between the GPUW and Local women in the northwest that want to keep council run swimming pools open for their children. These people (our people) are not interested in your worldwide quest. This is why your opinion and your political ideology is fast becoming irrelevant in this country.
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Post by prestwichpotter on May 14, 2021 22:31:14 GMT
Its whatever someone chooses to be concerned about, currently it’s clearly Israel/Palestine in the news...... Come off it, (certain prominent sections of) Labour and the left are completely obsessed with Palestine and Israel and I'm sure you know it. You can't move for Palestine flags at conference. Nobody's going to buy "just happens to be in the news" I can only speak for myself having never been affiliated to the Labour Party and I see the plight of the ordinary Palestinian as a cause worth fighting for and fully support the BDS movement and try and boycott any products sold from occupied territories just as I did with South Africa. I have a particular interest in the plight of the Burmese people as my family on my mums side are Burmese, along with trying to keep up to speed with other conflicts throughout the world. Yemen is particularly harrowing just because of the sheer scale of the devastation over there and the fact that we as a nation knowingly sell weapons involved in the massacre and justify it by saying "If we didn't someone else would" But back to your original question, I think Palestinian solidarity has always been there but has risen to the fore in the past decade or so on the back of the Gaza Strip siege of 2007-10, the Cast Lead massacre and so forth. For some these types of incidents along with the regular eviction of people from their homes/businesses, restriction of free movement etc have elevated Israel to an apartheid state involved in ethnic cleansing, in their opinion they are simply on the side of the oppressed not the oppressor. But as I say I can only really speak for myself.........
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Post by prestwichpotter on May 14, 2021 22:45:11 GMT
I personally think the Internationalism is important as is an ethical foreign policy. Whilst it’s not a vote winner per se I think it’s a bit patronising to suggest that people in council houses or from “the red wall” don’t care about injustice in Palestine or wherever. You only have to look at the acts of solidarity over the years from the working classes towards people from all corners of the globe. It’s not particularly difficult to focus on domestic and foreign issues side by side....... You are right it isn't a vote winner. It's not patronising either, it's borderline delusional! The people in council houses (and I come from one of them) are not particularly interested in the left's perceived injustice in Palestine. They are not particularly interested in the right's of Jews or Muslims in the Middle East. They are interested in their jobs, their housing, their family and their friends. Your average Red wall voter doesn't have family or friends in the Middle East, it is just another news story from another part of the world that has no direct impact on their lives. This is where Jeremy and you have gone so very wrong. There is no brotherhood between Hamas and a local group protesting against the closure of a Maternity Ward in the north east. There is no sisterhood between the GPUW and Local women in the northwest that want to keep council run swimming pools open for their children. These people (our people) are not interested in your worldwide quest. This is why your opinion and your political ideology is fast becoming irrelevant in this country. I come from a council house as well. I have no worldwide quest, and my opinion is as relevant as anyone else's. The working class Scots from the council estates of East Kilbride who worked in the BAE factory had no real connection with the Chilean people when they risked their jobs and putting food on the table by refusing to move aircraft engines destined for Pinochet's dictatorship. But they did it because it was an injustice that pricked their conscience. As I've said previously it is fairly easy to still worry about domestic issues whilst voicing concerns about things internationally, just like walking and chewing gum at the same time. And finally I don't personally care for the "our people" rhetoric. If other people subscribe to it that's their choice.......
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Post by Soro's Sorrows on May 14, 2021 22:54:58 GMT
You are right it isn't a vote winner. It's not patronising either, it's borderline delusional! The people in council houses (and I come from one of them) are not particularly interested in the left's perceived injustice in Palestine. They are not particularly interested in the right's of Jews or Muslims in the Middle East. They are interested in their jobs, their housing, their family and their friends. Your average Red wall voter doesn't have family or friends in the Middle East, it is just another news story from another part of the world that has no direct impact on their lives. This is where Jeremy and you have gone so very wrong. There is no brotherhood between Hamas and a local group protesting against the closure of a Maternity Ward in the north east. There is no sisterhood between the GPUW and Local women in the northwest that want to keep council run swimming pools open for their children. These people (our people) are not interested in your worldwide quest. This is why your opinion and your political ideology is fast becoming irrelevant in this country. I come from a council house as well. I have no worldwide quest, and my opinion is as relevant as anyone else's. The working class Scots from the council estates of East Kilbride who worked in the BAE factory had no real connection with the Chilean people when they risked their jobs and putting food on the table by refusing to move aircraft engines destined for Pinochet's dictatorship. But they did it because it was an injustice that pricked their conscience. As I've said previously it is fairly easy to still worry about domestic issues whilst voicing concerns about things internationally, just like walking and chewing gum at the same time. And finally I don't personally care for the "our people" rhetoric. If other people subscribe to it that's their choice....... You clearly don't care for our people "rhetoric" and Jeremy didn't either. This is why you are where you are, other people subscribed to it in their millions. Good luck continuing to bang your head against a Blue wall. The people of East Kilbride voted for a SNP candidate, you don't get much more nationalistic than that.
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Post by prestwichpotter on May 14, 2021 23:02:16 GMT
I come from a council house as well. I have no worldwide quest, and my opinion is as relevant as anyone else's. The working class Scots from the council estates of East Kilbride who worked in the BAE factory had no real connection with the Chilean people when they risked their jobs and putting food on the table by refusing to move aircraft engines destined for Pinochet's dictatorship. But they did it because it was an injustice that pricked their conscience. As I've said previously it is fairly easy to still worry about domestic issues whilst voicing concerns about things internationally, just like walking and chewing gum at the same time. And finally I don't personally care for the "our people" rhetoric. If other people subscribe to it that's their choice....... You clearly don't care for our people "rhetoric" and Jeremy didn't either. This is why you are where you are, other people subscribed to it in their millions. Good luck continuing to bang your head against a Blue wall. Other people can do what they like. I’m touched by your concern truly I am but I’m doing just fine......
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Post by Soro's Sorrows on May 14, 2021 23:18:27 GMT
You clearly don't care for our people "rhetoric" and Jeremy didn't either. This is why you are where you are, other people subscribed to it in their millions. Good luck continuing to bang your head against a Blue wall. Other people can do what they like. I’m touched by your concern truly I am but I’m doing just fine...... I am not sure which part of my post was showing any concern for you? I disagree with you on nuclear level, I find your racial chameleon tendency to be aberrant. Please don't confuse my conversing with you as empathy, it isn't.
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on May 15, 2021 5:49:08 GMT
Other people can do what they like. I’m touched by your concern truly I am but I’m doing just fine...... I am not sure which part of my post was showing any concern for you? I disagree with you on nuclear level, I find your racial chameleon tendency to be aberrant. Please don't confuse my conversing with you as empathy, it isn't. What is his 'racial chameleon tendency'?
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Post by prestwichpotter on May 15, 2021 6:52:49 GMT
I am not sure which part of my post was showing any concern for you? I disagree with you on nuclear level, I find your racial chameleon tendency to be aberrant. Please don't confuse my conversing with you as empathy, it isn't. What is his 'racial chameleon tendency'? He likes to throw accusations of antisemitism around willy nilly, the usual McCarthyite tactic. Of course as always with keyboard warriors he wouldn’t show his real identity whilst making these accusations......
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Post by prestwichpotter on May 15, 2021 19:37:25 GMT
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Post by prestwichpotter on May 20, 2021 20:07:34 GMT
Just keeps getting worse....
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Post by partickpotter on May 20, 2021 20:34:41 GMT
Just keeps getting worse.... Worse?
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Post by prestwichpotter on May 20, 2021 20:36:55 GMT
Just keeps getting worse.... Worse? Did I spell it wrong?
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Post by prestwichpotter on May 27, 2021 16:58:00 GMT
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Post by Kpsje on May 30, 2021 11:06:12 GMT
1) the knives are out for starmer.
2) it looks like he’s going to be shit! 3) i find it very amusing.
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Post by Dave the Rave on Jun 1, 2021 17:53:04 GMT
Anyone going to be watching Piers Morgan Life Stories tonight?
Not sure if a sitting leader of a political party has ever done an interview like this before?
Will certainly be interesting to get to know a bit more about those who want to govern us.
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Post by partickpotter on Jun 1, 2021 18:00:28 GMT
Anyone going to be watching Piers Morgan Life Stories tonight? Not sure if a sitting leader of a political party has ever done an interview like this before? Will certainly be interesting to get to know a bit more about those who want to govern us. This might be the first time the word interesting has ever been used in association with Keir Starmer.
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Post by wagsastokie on Jun 1, 2021 21:20:06 GMT
Anyone going to be watching Piers Morgan Life Stories tonight? Not sure if a sitting leader of a political party has ever done an interview like this before? Will certainly be interesting to get to know a bit more about those who want to govern us. This might be the first time the word interesting has ever been used in association with Keir Starmer. Well there playing the sympathy card in batley & spen Maybe he could spin a yarn about rescuing baby kittens or the like
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Post by Dave the Rave on Jun 1, 2021 21:26:23 GMT
This might be the first time the word interesting has ever been used in association with Keir Starmer. Well there playing the sympathy card in batley & spen Maybe he could spin a yarn about rescuing baby kittens or the like Sympathy card?
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Jun 1, 2021 23:34:27 GMT
I suppose you can't blame him for giving it a whirl and trying to get some sympathetic support from the British people.
The guy needs to call it a day. He's getting absolutely obliterated by a guy most Conservatives don't even particularly like. The lesser of two evils and all that.
It's as though the fact that Boris is so soft and moderate seems to be doing even more damage to Labour.
I'm surprised the militant Corbynista left haven't formed a breakaway party. Or will they simply vote Green?
You've also got to ask, with the Green's starting to take the woke vote, what the fuck is the point of the Lib Dems? They are a complete joke party who seem to be offering nothing. Well...aside from trying to overthrow democracy.
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Post by wagsastokie on Jun 2, 2021 4:40:54 GMT
Well there playing the sympathy card in batley & spen Maybe he could spin a yarn about rescuing baby kittens or the like Sympathy card? How would you describe selecting a candidate that wasn’t until recently even a party member who is related to a previous sadly murdered mp
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Post by felonious on Jun 2, 2021 7:57:49 GMT
Anyone going to be watching Piers Morgan Life Stories tonight? Not sure if a sitting leader of a political party has ever done an interview like this before? Will certainly be interesting to get to know a bit more about those who want to govern us. Sounds like a desperate man. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-57321990
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Post by Dave the Rave on Jun 2, 2021 8:57:58 GMT
Anyone going to be watching Piers Morgan Life Stories tonight? Not sure if a sitting leader of a political party has ever done an interview like this before? Will certainly be interesting to get to know a bit more about those who want to govern us. Sounds like a desperate man. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-57321990Desperate in what regard?
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Post by Dave the Rave on Jun 2, 2021 9:01:06 GMT
I suppose you can't blame him for giving it a whirl and trying to get some sympathetic support from the British people. The guy needs to call it a day. He's getting absolutely obliterated by a guy most Conservatives don't even particularly like. The lesser of two evils and all that. It's as though the fact that Boris is so soft and moderate seems to be doing even more damage to Labour. I'm surprised the militant Corbynista left haven't formed a breakaway party. Or will they simply vote Green? You've also got to ask, with the Green's starting to take the woke vote, what the fuck is the point of the Lib Dems? They are a complete joke party who seem to be offering nothing. Well...aside from trying to overthrow democracy. Oh come on, at the last election Zippy off of Rainbow would have beaten Labour due to their stance on Brexit. There is no-one on the planet who could have taken over the Labour leadership and turned that around in 18 months. The sense of betrayal felt by many will last a lifetime.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Jun 2, 2021 9:08:30 GMT
I suppose you can't blame him for giving it a whirl and trying to get some sympathetic support from the British people. The guy needs to call it a day. He's getting absolutely obliterated by a guy most Conservatives don't even particularly like. The lesser of two evils and all that. It's as though the fact that Boris is so soft and moderate seems to be doing even more damage to Labour. I'm surprised the militant Corbynista left haven't formed a breakaway party. Or will they simply vote Green? You've also got to ask, with the Green's starting to take the woke vote, what the fuck is the point of the Lib Dems? They are a complete joke party who seem to be offering nothing. Well...aside from trying to overthrow democracy. Oh come on, at the last election Zippy off of Rainbow would have beaten Labour due to their stance on Brexit. There is no-one on the planet who could have taken over the Labour leadership and turned that around in 18 months. The sense of betrayal felt by many will last a lifetime. And you can't blame them. Trying to overthrow democracy is a fairly significant crime to commit. That said, the problems lie far far deeper than just Brexit. The North of Britain is a socially Conservative society. The current Labour Party is socially outlandish and seems more concerned with people saying the right pronouns than real life issues. Add to that a bunch of other huge differences between the metropolitan elitest stance of the current Labour Party and the rest of Britain and you start to get to the crux of it. I think we are in for many many years of Conservative leadership and breakaway parties combined with the Green Party will almost certainly finish Labour for good.
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Post by Dave the Rave on Jun 2, 2021 14:36:22 GMT
Oh come on, at the last election Zippy off of Rainbow would have beaten Labour due to their stance on Brexit. There is no-one on the planet who could have taken over the Labour leadership and turned that around in 18 months. The sense of betrayal felt by many will last a lifetime. And you can't blame them. Trying to overthrow democracy is a fairly significant crime to commit. That said, the problems lie far far deeper than just Brexit. The North of Britain is a socially Conservative society. The current Labour Party is socially outlandish and seems more concerned with people saying the right pronouns than real life issues. Add to that a bunch of other huge differences between the metropolitan elitest stance of the current Labour Party and the rest of Britain and you start to get to the crux of it. I think we are in for many many years of Conservative leadership and breakaway parties combined with the Green Party will almost certainly finish Labour for good. I think "trying to overthrow democracy" is putting it a tad strongly. You can't overthrow democracy by having some more democracy. Things changed, opinions may have changed. We don't claim to be overthrowing democracy when we vote a new party in on the basis that the old party won the last vote. Nevertheless, it was a moronic policy and they clearly didn't read the room as well as Cummings did. Clearly, the way you see it is the way many saw it though. Hence the monstrous swings from the 2017 vote.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Jun 2, 2021 15:02:23 GMT
And you can't blame them. Trying to overthrow democracy is a fairly significant crime to commit. That said, the problems lie far far deeper than just Brexit. The North of Britain is a socially Conservative society. The current Labour Party is socially outlandish and seems more concerned with people saying the right pronouns than real life issues. Add to that a bunch of other huge differences between the metropolitan elitest stance of the current Labour Party and the rest of Britain and you start to get to the crux of it. I think we are in for many many years of Conservative leadership and breakaway parties combined with the Green Party will almost certainly finish Labour for good. I think "trying to overthrow democracy" is putting it a tad strongly. You can't overthrow democracy by having some more democracy. Things changed, opinions may have changed. We don't claim to be overthrowing democracy when we vote a new party in on the basis that the old party won the last vote. Nevertheless, it was a moronic policy and they clearly didn't read the room as well as Cummings did. Clearly, the way you see it is the way many saw it though. Hence the monstrous swings from the 2017 vote. Which I agree with Dave. What I don't agree with is overthrowing a decision before the delivery of that decision - ie brexit - has been carried out. Some of the frankly appalling fake news we saw from the likes of the BBC and Co in an attempt to have a second referendum was just beyond words. Many many people will never forgive that. I'm not really sure where Labour go from here. Even as a Conservative I'd want to see some form of opposition. Starmer is trying to move the party closer to Blair but basically lacks everything Blair had to be successful.
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