|
Post by prestwichpotter on Feb 8, 2021 13:48:14 GMT
Who said "the election in 2019 was a complete rejection of the Corbyn project"? However, anyone who did say that, basing their response on the election results and the worst result for Labour in 40 years, could be given some latitude for doing so! Corbyn lost 48 seats in England. To the Conservatives! Johnson increased the Tory vote share by almost 2%, Corbyn's Labour went down by almost 8%. Sometimes, you just have to face up to facts and accept that England didn't/doesn't want that kind of political party any more...whether that's ultimately sensible is another question! No one is denying that, but to not put that into the context of Brexit is to misread the overall picture. I mean Milliband was regularly 8/10/12 points up in the polls and look what happened in 2015. Starmer's brand of politics will be rejected outright, he hasn't got the charisma of Blair, and he's not up against a Tory Party in absolute disarray (despite everything going on).......
|
|
|
Post by Rednwhitenblue on Feb 8, 2021 13:57:09 GMT
Who said "the election in 2019 was a complete rejection of the Corbyn project"? However, anyone who did say that, basing their response on the election results and the worst result for Labour in 40 years, could be given some latitude for doing so! Corbyn lost 48 seats in England. To the Conservatives! Johnson increased the Tory vote share by almost 2%, Corbyn's Labour went down by almost 8%. Sometimes, you just have to face up to facts and accept that England didn't/doesn't want that kind of political party any more...whether that's ultimately sensible is another question! No one is denying that, but to not put that into the context of Brexit is to misread the overall picture. I mean Milliband was regularly 8/10/12 points up in the polls and look what happened in 2015. Starmer's brand of politics will be rejected outright, he hasn't got the charisma of Blair, and he's not up against a Tory Party in absolute disarray (despite everything going on)....... I agree about Brexit, a lot of the Bluffer vote was simply so that people could stop hearing about Brexit because they were so utterly sick of it. We'll have to wait and see about Starmer's Labour. Early days, but I can't see them winning in 2024. They'll just do better than Corbyn did. Which brings me back to my original question - what brand of non right-wing politics would be acceptable to England, if any?
|
|
|
Post by The Drunken Communist on Feb 8, 2021 14:02:24 GMT
Some hilarious posts being made
|
|
|
Post by prestwichpotter on Feb 8, 2021 14:07:40 GMT
No one is denying that, but to not put that into the context of Brexit is to misread the overall picture. I mean Milliband was regularly 8/10/12 points up in the polls and look what happened in 2015. Starmer's brand of politics will be rejected outright, he hasn't got the charisma of Blair, and he's not up against a Tory Party in absolute disarray (despite everything going on)....... I agree about Brexit, a lot of the Bluffer vote was simply so that people could stop hearing about Brexit because they were so utterly sick of it. We'll have to wait and see about Starmer's Labour. Early days, but I can't see them winning in 2024. They'll just do better than Corbyn did. Which brings me back to my original question - what brand of non right-wing politics would be acceptable to England, if any? What about Wales and Scotland or have Labour given up on them now? Because they could do the pragmatic thing by agreeing to another Scottish Indy referendum before arguing for the virtues of the union and trying to win back one of their traditional heartlands........
|
|
|
Post by prestwichpotter on Feb 8, 2021 14:08:05 GMT
Some hilarious posts being made Feel free to add to the debate......
|
|
|
Post by wagsastokie on Feb 8, 2021 15:37:40 GMT
Indeed. Labour's stance on Brexit was by far the biggest contributor to their historic loss. 2017 proves that unequivocally. Correct and which charlatan was in charge of labours brexit policy
|
|
|
Post by prestwichpotter on Feb 8, 2021 15:47:43 GMT
I'd envisage Starmer would get somewhere around 2005 Blair/2019 Corbyn levels of voters at the moment based on a drop in Wales and the greens potentially picking up some of the left wing votes, as I've previously said though it's not all doom and gloom (for him) as I still think his best hope is for the press to turn on Johnson at some point and endorse the alternative (the King is dead, long live the King)
|
|
|
Post by sheikhmomo on Feb 10, 2021 19:26:27 GMT
|
|
|
Post by cobhamstokey on Feb 10, 2021 20:24:19 GMT
Sounds like they’re been a bit precious there.
|
|
|
Post by Rednwhitenblue on Feb 11, 2021 17:09:15 GMT
Some hilarious posts being made Feel free to add to the debate...... That would be a first
|
|
|
Post by Rednwhitenblue on Feb 11, 2021 17:15:25 GMT
I'd envisage Starmer would get somewhere around 2005 Blair/2019 Corbyn levels of voters at the moment based on a drop in Wales and the greens potentially picking up some of the left wing votes, as I've previously said though it's not all doom and gloom (for him) as I still think his best hope is for the press to turn on Johnson at some point and endorse the alternative (the King is dead, long live the King) I don't think the alternative would be Starmer though if that's what you were intimating... Much more likely for the press to endorse Sunak, if they ever get sick of Bluffer's 'charisma', or some other so far unsullied Cabinet minister. Gove still harbours dreams of being PM as well, I'm sure, although he effectively already is.
|
|
|
Post by prestwichpotter on Feb 12, 2021 16:32:13 GMT
Fucks sake Keith.....
|
|
|
Post by wagsastokie on Feb 12, 2021 16:42:30 GMT
Looks like some of the labour support doesn’t like to much flag waving
|
|
|
Post by thevoid on Feb 12, 2021 17:41:33 GMT
Looks like some of the labour support doesn’t like to much flag waving The wrong flag.
|
|
|
Post by sheikhmomo on Feb 12, 2021 18:30:41 GMT
Seems like a lot of the pavement pounders for Labour have turned to the Greens. Well done Keith
|
|
|
Post by Rednwhitenblue on Feb 12, 2021 20:38:32 GMT
Given the way England votes, Lab, LD and Greens should just bite the bullet and amalgamate and be done with it. In our daft FPTP system, which really only works with two parties, there is little point in having a number of parties. Currently, there is only one right-wing option and several non right-wing options, forever splitting the non-Tory vote, so you may as well go the whole American hog and just have two parties! Until such time as a Labour Party manages to be unthreatening to enough of middle England to appeal to a good proportion of Tory voters, this will be the future of English government for some time to come. What could possibly go wrong for our society as a whole?
|
|
|
Post by ColonelMustard on Feb 12, 2021 21:09:22 GMT
Given the way England votes, Lab, LD and Greens should just bite the bullet and amalgamate and be done with it. In our daft FPTP system, which really only works with two parties, there is little point in having a number of parties. Currently, there is only one right-wing option and several non right-wing options, forever splitting the non-Tory vote, so you may as well go the whole American hog and just have two parties! Until such time as a Labour Party manages to be unthreatening to enough of middle England to appeal to a good proportion of Tory voters, this will be the future of English government for some time to come. What could possibly go wrong for our society as a whole? Should campaign together/ coordinate candidates on an electoral reform platform for one election only. Im no PR expert but something like MMP with transferable vote in the constituencies seems as good as we could hope for.
|
|
|
Post by ColonelMustard on Feb 12, 2021 21:15:02 GMT
I dont get the public. Youd think a disingenuous personality vacuum draped in a Union Jack is exactly what people would want.
|
|
|
Post by prestwichpotter on Feb 12, 2021 21:16:39 GMT
I dont get the public. Youd think a disingenuous personality vacuum draped in a Union Jack is exactly what people would want. Especially one that's so forensic......
|
|
|
Post by felonious on Feb 13, 2021 14:56:11 GMT
Time for a musical interlude
|
|
|
Post by wagsastokie on Feb 13, 2021 21:28:45 GMT
Time for a musical interlude Unless you were a Iraqi civilian
|
|
|
Post by sheikhmomo on Feb 14, 2021 0:21:16 GMT
|
|
|
Post by partickpotter on Feb 14, 2021 8:17:12 GMT
I was going to make a comment about The Life of Brian and that scene about the rival factions the Judean People’s Front and the People’s Front of Judea... but, I discover, the Jewish chronicle got their first (back in 2018!): The JC Leader: Wrong divisionSo, I’ll limit myself to the clip from the film. It’s clearly as relevant as ever in its depiction of factionalism on the left of politics.
|
|
|
Post by ColonelMustard on Feb 14, 2021 10:22:34 GMT
In completely unrelated news, Israel is pushing for the term Zionist to be considered hate speech on social media. I really dont think they've thought it through. What does that say about Zionism, if to be called one is hate speech?
|
|
|
Post by ColonelMustard on Feb 14, 2021 10:28:37 GMT
I see Murdoch has fired a shot accross Starmers bow today in the Times. Crunch time for Starmer. Get rid of members and you need city money. Alienate left wing voters and you need the right wing press onside.
Hes looking like having none of these things in place right now, worst of all worlds. Time to commit fully. No coincidence The Times has fired a shot as Starmer is set to announce policy to distance himself from the Tories.
An intriguing sticky mess surrounding an extremely dull man.
|
|
|
Post by wagsastokie on Feb 14, 2021 10:32:57 GMT
I was going to make a comment about The Life of Brian and that scene about the rival factions the Judean People’s Front and the People’s Front of Judea... but, I discover, the Jewish chronicle got their first (back in 2018!): The JC Leader: Wrong divisionSo, I’ll limit myself to the clip from the film. It’s clearly as relevant as ever in its depiction of factionalism on the left of politics. Talking about splits had to wait for one of my lads yesterday whilst he had a appointment And he’d left yesterday’s daily mail in the car There was a very interesting double page spread on the salmond sturgeon civil war
|
|
|
Post by followyoudown on Feb 14, 2021 12:04:12 GMT
Well considering that JVL much like yourself spent nearly 2 years denying there was a problem with antisemitism at all, its hardly surprising they are ignored just as any recommendation from John McDonnel should be.
|
|
|
Post by prestwichpotter on Feb 14, 2021 12:13:16 GMT
Well considering that JVL much like yourself spent nearly 2 years denying there was a problem with antisemitism at all, its hardly surprising they are ignored just as any recommendation from John McDonnel should be. “Wrong type of Jews” And like a lot of people they didn’t deny antisemitism exists please stop lying. They called out the numbers that were and remain masively exaggerated by opponents of Corbyn both in and out of the party.....
|
|
|
Post by ColonelMustard on Feb 14, 2021 12:17:26 GMT
Well considering that JVL much like yourself spent nearly 2 years denying there was a problem with antisemitism at all, its hardly surprising they are ignored just as any recommendation from John McDonnel should be. I know quite a few Jewish people in JVL who say they have never experienced any anti semitism in Labour Party. They should not be ignored. Its concerning that you think they should be.
|
|
|
Post by followyoudown on Feb 14, 2021 12:20:21 GMT
Well considering that JVL much like yourself spent nearly 2 years denying there was a problem with antisemitism at all, its hardly surprising they are ignored just as any recommendation from John McDonnel should be. “Wrong type of Jews” And like a lot of people they didn’t deny antisemitism exists please stop lying. They called out the numbers that were and remain masively exaggerated by opponents of Corbyn both in and out of the party..... I clearly said they denied there was a problem with AS not they denied its existence, even after the EHRC report you are still trying to downplay it.......
|
|