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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Sept 11, 2024 14:26:57 GMT
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Post by Ariel Manto on Sept 11, 2024 14:31:41 GMT
Here's another. If the boot was on the other foot they'd be getting rinsed, and rightly so. These holier than thou merchants deserve exactly the same. Putting this into perspective…..Liverpool Riverside is one of the poorest most deprived areas of North West England where 38% of children live in poverty & where 18% or 22,500 of it's constituents are over 65. Well done duck, hope you sleep well this winter as some of your constituents suffer from cold or malnutrition. Remember her name folks KIM JOHNSON. People will receive Winter Fuel Payment if they receive Pension Credit or certain other means-tested benefits. 10.8 million pensioners in 7.6 million households in England and Wales received the Winter Fuel Payment for winter 2023/2024. The Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) estimates that 1.5 million individuals in 1.3 million households in England and Wales will receive a payment for winter 2024/2025. The Social Fund Winter Fuel Payment Regulations 2024
Entitlement to a Winter Fuel Payment2.—(1) Subject to regulation 4, the Secretary of State must pay a winter fuel payment out of the social fund to a person where— (a)that person has reached pensionable age in or before the qualifying week; and (b)in respect of any day falling within the qualifying week, paragraph (2) or (3) applies to the person. (2) This paragraph applies if the person is— (a)ordinarily resident in England and Wales; and (b)entitled to— (i)a relevant benefit; or
(ii)an award of child tax credit or working tax credit of not less than £26 in respect of the tax year 2024-25.(4) In this regulation—
“pensionable age” has the meaning given by the rules in paragraph 1 of Schedule 4 to the Pensions Act 1995 (c. 26);“relevant benefit” means—
(a) income support under Part 7 of the Social Security Contributions and Benefits Act 1992;
(b) an income-based jobseeker’s allowance under the Jobseekers Act 1995(10);
(c) state pension credit under the State Pension Credit Act 2002(11);
(d) an income-related employment and support allowance under Part 1 of the Welfare Reform Act 2007(12);
(e) universal credit under Part 1 of the Welfare Reform Act 2012(13);If you're going to be means testing every other demographic receiving the benefit, you cannot just exclude pensioners from that means test without having a rationale which applies to every other demographic - otherwise it's patently unfair. |
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Post by Ariel Manto on Sept 11, 2024 14:41:26 GMT
You've got two different facets of the Labour Party at play here both at the same time; the far left "Corbynistas" who will always vote against any benefit cut, and the centrist Labour members who vote for means testing because they feel means testing the benefit is far more equitable than either universality or stopping it altogether. As a principle, universality is wrong. Any state benefit should be means tested. Anything less results in the benefit becoming a right (i.e. the state pension). In a world where there is a £22bn gap on the nations finance and other parts of society are going to have to foot the bill for it, it is hugely disingenuous as a principle to give rich pensioners a universal benefit. Personally, I would have simply added the average energy bill for the UK (according to Ofgem) onto the state pension, and made that the curt off point for the Winter Fuel Allowance. Instead, Labour have said they are saying a anyone on Pension Credit will qualify for it (despite there being poor take up of it). On a socio-political level, anyone thinks the Winter Fuel Allowance should be universal is plain wrong. It is a benefit not a right. If every single pensioner was successful in receiving their unclaimed benefits how would that leave the nations coffers just out of interest? I genuinely don't know the answer so it would be good to be enlightened. And means testing in general has often proved as expensive as universal benefits. And as highlighted previously £22 billion whilst not an insignificant amount is 2% of the overall budget, so this narrative from Labour about policies like this one bankrupting the nation is quite frankly bonkers. And as for the tedious "Corbynista" bollocks I'll give that the response it deserves....... I forget where I read it now, but I think overall if everyone claimed Pension Credit and WFA there would not be any saving. It's not the policy per se which would bankrupt the nation, it's the principle of universality which would. |
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Post by emretezzy on Sept 11, 2024 15:07:24 GMT
Your second sentence is key to this and I'm very surprised nobody here has picked up on it before now:- "Apparently if the full uptake entitled to claim it (Pension Credit) did so the bill could be bigger than the saving made by cutting the WFA."The Labour Treasury knows that means testing WFA will only save about £1bn. The whole point of the debate around means testing WFA is that it is far better to target that assistance and give it to people who need it than it is to give money away to rich people who don't. It's the principle of fairness and equality. Changing WFA to means tested means that any future benefits handed out, created, or developed by the Labour government will also be based on means testing and NOT universality precisely because that's the fairest way of doing it. I'm equally as surprised that the Corbynistas have fallen hook, line and sinker so asily for the right wing Conservative Press line...or am I? You're surprised that people on the left wing don't support pensioners who earn £11,500 per annum as an individual or £17,500 as a couple (less than 9k each per annum) losing their winter Fuel allowance? Why does that surprise you? "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs." In a time of record inequality, you're surprised that people on the left wing don't support removing a critical benefit for people earning less than 9 grand a year? I think he's a government Internet BOT. |
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Post by flea79 on Sept 11, 2024 15:10:04 GMT
Gareth Snell being a hypocrite and liar again! Who would have thought it!  I rarely castigate anybody for political views or choices but those of you in stoke central who voted for that rat just because he wasn’t a Tory need your heads reading. As for snell he needs to just go and never come back |
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Post by Gawa on Sept 11, 2024 15:20:18 GMT
No money for pensioners. More money for war.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Sept 11, 2024 15:35:46 GMT
No money for pensioners. More money for war. Good for the arms industries in fairness, they did say economic growth was front and centre of their strategy. All jokes aside though - and I know they're having the same arguments in America albeit for difference reasons potentially - at what point does a government have to say "enough is enough" when it comes to giving money to a conflict elsewhere in the world? If you're a regular visitor to a foodbank and part of the increasing "working poor" in the UK it must be difficult to see those types of figures and back it unilaterally........ |
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Post by lawrieleslie on Sept 11, 2024 15:46:22 GMT
Putting this into perspective…..Liverpool Riverside is one of the poorest most deprived areas of North West England where 38% of children live in poverty & where 18% or 22,500 of it's constituents are over 65. Well done duck, hope you sleep well this winter as some of your constituents suffer from cold or malnutrition. Remember her name folks KIM JOHNSON. People will receive Winter Fuel Payment if they receive Pension Credit or certain other means-tested benefits. 10.8 million pensioners in 7.6 million households in England and Wales received the Winter Fuel Payment for winter 2023/2024. The Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) estimates that 1.5 million individuals in 1.3 million households in England and Wales will receive a payment for winter 2024/2025. The Social Fund Winter Fuel Payment Regulations 2024
Entitlement to a Winter Fuel Payment2.—(1) Subject to regulation 4, the Secretary of State must pay a winter fuel payment out of the social fund to a person where— (a)that person has reached pensionable age in or before the qualifying week; and (b)in respect of any day falling within the qualifying week, paragraph (2) or (3) applies to the person. (2) This paragraph applies if the person is— (a)ordinarily resident in England and Wales; and (b)entitled to— (i)a relevant benefit; or
(ii)an award of child tax credit or working tax credit of not less than £26 in respect of the tax year 2024-25.(4) In this regulation—
“pensionable age” has the meaning given by the rules in paragraph 1 of Schedule 4 to the Pensions Act 1995 (c. 26);“relevant benefit” means—
(a) income support under Part 7 of the Social Security Contributions and Benefits Act 1992;
(b) an income-based jobseeker’s allowance under the Jobseekers Act 1995(10);
(c) state pension credit under the State Pension Credit Act 2002(11);
(d) an income-related employment and support allowance under Part 1 of the Welfare Reform Act 2007(12);
(e) universal credit under Part 1 of the Welfare Reform Act 2012(13);If you're going to be means testing every other demographic receiving the benefit, you cannot just exclude pensioners from that means test without having a rationale which applies to every other demographic - otherwise it's patently unfair. Don’t dispute the need to means test the WFA. But the way it has been done is patently unfair & badly timed. As I’ve said, the threshold for payment is too low and using the National Living Wage of around £24k as the standard would ensure that pensioners living only on state pension would get it. |
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Post by iancransonsknees on Sept 11, 2024 19:44:33 GMT
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Sept 11, 2024 19:46:35 GMT
Is that Oggy with the long hair in the background? |
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Post by iancransonsknees on Sept 11, 2024 19:48:12 GMT
Is that Oggy with the long hair in the background? He's off camera cheering him on. |
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Post by emretezzy on Sept 11, 2024 21:09:28 GMT
No money for pensioners. More money for war. Comes with a nice fluctuating interest rate of repayment GAWA. |
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Post by emretezzy on Sept 11, 2024 21:11:32 GMT
No money for pensioners. More money for war. Good for the arms industries in fairness, they did say economic growth was front and centre of their strategy. All jokes aside though - and I know they're having the same arguments in America albeit for difference reasons potentially - at what point does a government have to say "enough is enough" when it comes to giving money to a conflict elsewhere in the world? If you're a regular visitor to a foodbank and part of the increasing "working poor" in the UK it must be difficult to see those types of figures and back it unilaterally........ I think looking at the last 80 years post World War 2, the sheer number of interest-laden war-loan handouts. They don't. |
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Post by oggyoggy on Sept 12, 2024 8:06:00 GMT
Is that Oggy with the long hair in the background? I wish I still had that much hair |
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Sept 12, 2024 8:45:34 GMT
Is that Oggy with the long hair in the background? I wish I still had that much hair Just join Badge on his trip to Istanbul next week and sort yourself a nice transplant 😉 |
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Post by Ariel Manto on Sept 12, 2024 9:33:39 GMT
Gareth Snell being a hypocrite and liar again! Who would have thought it! I rarely castigate anybody for political views or choices but those of you in stoke central who voted for that rat just because he wasn’t a Tory need your heads reading. As for snell he needs to just go and never come back Literally cannot stand the man. He's the definition of an Apparatchik - a man who appears whenever there is a centrist Labour government but who is nowhere to be seen otherwise - a full-time, professional functionary of the Party - "a man not of grand plans, but of a hundred carefully executed details" as someone once said. |
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Post by Ariel Manto on Sept 12, 2024 9:35:24 GMT
People will receive Winter Fuel Payment if they receive Pension Credit or certain other means-tested benefits. 10.8 million pensioners in 7.6 million households in England and Wales received the Winter Fuel Payment for winter 2023/2024. The Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) estimates that 1.5 million individuals in 1.3 million households in England and Wales will receive a payment for winter 2024/2025. The Social Fund Winter Fuel Payment Regulations 2024
Entitlement to a Winter Fuel Payment2.—(1) Subject to regulation 4, the Secretary of State must pay a winter fuel payment out of the social fund to a person where— (a)that person has reached pensionable age in or before the qualifying week; and (b)in respect of any day falling within the qualifying week, paragraph (2) or (3) applies to the person. (2) This paragraph applies if the person is— (a)ordinarily resident in England and Wales; and (b)entitled to— (i)a relevant benefit; or
(ii)an award of child tax credit or working tax credit of not less than £26 in respect of the tax year 2024-25.(4) In this regulation—
“pensionable age” has the meaning given by the rules in paragraph 1 of Schedule 4 to the Pensions Act 1995 (c. 26);“relevant benefit” means—
(a) income support under Part 7 of the Social Security Contributions and Benefits Act 1992;
(b) an income-based jobseeker’s allowance under the Jobseekers Act 1995(10);
(c) state pension credit under the State Pension Credit Act 2002(11);
(d) an income-related employment and support allowance under Part 1 of the Welfare Reform Act 2007(12);
(e) universal credit under Part 1 of the Welfare Reform Act 2012(13);If you're going to be means testing every other demographic receiving the benefit, you cannot just exclude pensioners from that means test without having a rationale which applies to every other demographic - otherwise it's patently unfair. Don’t dispute the need to means test the WFA. But the way it has been done is patently unfair & badly timed. As I’ve said, the threshold for payment is too low and using the National Living Wage of around £24k as the standard would ensure that pensioners living only on state pension would get it. Totally agree with that. Personally, I'd have taken the state pension and added onto that the average fuel bill as Ofgem currently have it, to make THAT the cut off for WFA. Seems much fairer than the way Rachel Reeves has done it, to me anyway. |
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Post by salopstick on Sept 12, 2024 9:44:04 GMT
he hates the working class The rhetoric from the election was they were going after corporations and the very rich the rhetoric since is money off pensioners and its going to get worse for us A horrible man |
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Post by Ariel Manto on Sept 12, 2024 9:46:23 GMT
he hates the working class The rhetoric from the election was they were going after corporations and the very rich the rhetoric since is money off pensioners and its going to get worse for us A horrible man In fairness, Labour have pretty much acknowledged that corporation tax is going up, as are taxes for non working people. As always, the devil will be in the detail. |
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Post by salopstick on Sept 12, 2024 10:09:05 GMT
he hates the working class The rhetoric from the election was they were going after corporations and the very rich the rhetoric since is money off pensioners and its going to get worse for us A horrible man In fairness, Labour have pretty much acknowledged that corporation tax is going up, as are taxes for non working people. As always, the devil will be in the detail. Again its the optics theyve announced and voted on cuts to pensioners they have voted and suspended MP's over child benefit they have warned the working middle classes you are aboutto get hit im waiting for any detail for the rich 2024's Labour |
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Sept 12, 2024 10:24:01 GMT
Gareth Snell being a hypocrite and liar again! Who would have thought it! I rarely castigate anybody for political views or choices but those of you in stoke central who voted for that rat just because he wasn’t a Tory need your heads reading. As for snell he needs to just go and never come back Literally cannot stand the man. He's the definition of an Apparatchik - a man who appears whenever there is a centrist Labour government but who is nowhere to be seen otherwise - a full-time, professional functionary of the Party - "a man not of grand plans, but of a hundred carefully executed details" as someone once said. The photo is from 2017 not recent. However, he is a vile person and a bully. Read about his reselection in Stoke Central - deeeply concerning. Oh and he's shacked up with Ruth Smeeth now, in Penkhull. |
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Sept 12, 2024 11:16:20 GMT
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Post by thebet365 on Sept 12, 2024 11:24:18 GMT
he hates the working class The rhetoric from the election was they were going after corporations and the very rich the rhetoric since is money off pensioners and its going to get worse for us A horrible man In fairness, Labour have pretty much acknowledged that corporation tax is going up, as are taxes for non working people. As always, the devil will be in the detail. I thought they pledged not to raise corporation tax ? It went up last year under the Tories. |
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Post by adri2008 on Sept 12, 2024 11:31:46 GMT
I approve of Starmer talking about NHS reform - the current service isn't fit for purpose. It needs refocusing on how and where we care for our ageing population i.e. linking up social care properly. Some of the ridiculously archaic IT systems need modernising too.
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Post by Ariel Manto on Sept 12, 2024 11:42:27 GMT
In fairness, Labour have pretty much acknowledged that corporation tax is going up, as are taxes for non working people. As always, the devil will be in the detail. I thought they pledged not to raise corporation tax ? It went up last year under the Tories. The only thing they pledged was not to raise taxes for working people - such as VAT, lower rates of income tax and national insurance. According to that logic, Council Tax, Corporation Tax, higher rates of income tax, inheritance tax, capital gains, business rates generally, and stamp duty are presumably all fair game for Labour this time round (at least). I don't thibk the country is anywhere near ready for a return to the Conservative Party, but Labour are risking an absolute tonking at the next local elections if this goes badly. |
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Post by phileetin on Sept 12, 2024 11:42:32 GMT
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Post by thebet365 on Sept 12, 2024 11:47:45 GMT
I thought they pledged not to raise corporation tax ? It went up last year under the Tories. The only thing they pledged was not to raise taxes for working people - such as VAT, lower rates of income tax and national insurance. According to that logic, Council Tax, Corporation Tax, higher rates of income tax, inheritance tax, capital gains, business rates generally, and stamp duty are presumably all fair game for Labour this time round (at least). I don't thibk the country is anywhere near ready for a return to the Conservative Party, but Labour are risking an absolute tonking at the next local elections if this goes badly. Several financial institutes report that they have capped it for this parliment A stealth tax they could look at is Employment allowance, it came in at £2,000.00 in 2014 and it's currently £5,000.00 per eligible business. I've no idea how much it costs the treasury though. |
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Sept 12, 2024 11:47:52 GMT
Fucking ridiculous. So starmer and reeves sit there banging on about 22bn yet won't show the workings out from the treasury. Talk about marking your own homework and adds fire to the claim they are rigging the civil service. Just wow. Did we actually have a change of govt... |
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Post by Ariel Manto on Sept 12, 2024 11:59:16 GMT
First thing first; Jeremy Hunt can do one. He's a proven liar with demonstrable experience of single-handedly fucking up every department he touches. Honestly, it's pointless referring to anything that man says. Secondly, if you're referring to the Treasury's refusal to respond in full to a Freedom of Information request put forward by the Financial Times today, whilst the Treasury has not refused (it has said it is ensuring the accuracy of the data needed for full disclosure, NOT the accuracy of the £22bn figure) what is not being reported is that the Treasury also has an exemption under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 which prevents it from responding in full AT THIS TIME. The exemption is "the assessment or collection of a tax or duty or an imposition of a similar nature." As the FOI disclosure would include information that will form part of a budget (i.e. an Act of Parliament or law, for want of a better word) then the FOI exemption applies as disclosing that information would directly affect the upcoming budget. The FT should probably have put its FOI request in after the budget, not before, as chances are the Treasury won't respond until after the budget. And Jeremy Hunt is rhyming slang. |
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Post by Ariel Manto on Sept 12, 2024 12:05:29 GMT
The only thing they pledged was not to raise taxes for working people - such as VAT, lower rates of income tax and national insurance. According to that logic, Council Tax, Corporation Tax, higher rates of income tax, inheritance tax, capital gains, business rates generally, and stamp duty are presumably all fair game for Labour this time round (at least). I don't thibk the country is anywhere near ready for a return to the Conservative Party, but Labour are risking an absolute tonking at the next local elections if this goes badly. Several financial institutes report that they have capped it for this parliment A stealth tax they could look at is Employment allowance, it came in at £2,000.00 in 2014 and it's currently £5,000.00 per eligible business. I've no idea how much it costs the treasury though. Labour announced they would cap corporation tax in February 2024. During the election, Labour said it would not raise the ‘big four’ of income tax, National Insurance, VAT and corporation tax, leaves minimal wiggle room when it comes to generating more revenue. That has now shifted to "no increase in taxation for working people". It's arguable whether Corporation Tax is a "working people" tax. Since then we've had the £22bn blackhole. |
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