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Post by thehartshillbadger on Sept 9, 2024 20:18:50 GMT
Limiting the winter fuel payment will save about £1.5bn a year. Meanwhile, we're still going to honour the commitment to spunk £11.6bn up the wall on overseas climate aid. Brilliant. Puts it all into perspective doesn’t it. Absolute charlatans like the last lot
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ian57
Youth Player
Posts: 303
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Post by ian57 on Sept 9, 2024 20:41:39 GMT
Will Rachel and two tier be means tested or will they keep their £3,400 per year winter fuel allowance?
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Post by wannabee on Sept 9, 2024 22:02:08 GMT
Just checked its 27%...... Even if this was true, what about the remaining 73%? Also, why do train drivers who are already earning very well, get to earn significantly more? Make it make sense. If you don't believe the Tory Organ who are you going to believe www.telegraph.co.uk/money/pensions/news/number-millionaire-pensioners-quadruples/The average Train Driver in UKs salary is about £48K with a starting salary of about £30K www.reed.com/articles/train-driver-salary-benefitsYou may find that excessive on a peer to peer basis. Personally I think it's far more warranted than say a "Marketing Person" who is trying to flog a product that many maybe don't need or can't afford, but maybe that's just me. A Train Driver is a Skilled Profession that requires a range of training and responsibilities not least the safety of passengers. "Marketing" is an empty Profession that produces nothing and only retains loyalty to the "Brand" until the next commission cheque is paid. I could use many other professions as comparators.
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Post by wannabee on Sept 9, 2024 22:47:21 GMT
Limiting the winter fuel payment will save about £1.5bn a year. Meanwhile, we're still going to honour the commitment to spunk £11.6bn up the wall on overseas climate aid. Brilliant. Puts it all into perspective doesn’t it. Absolute charlatans like the last lot The £11.6Bn Bozo originally pledged was a braggadocios claim that Britain would be a World Leader in combatting Climate Change ahead of COP 26 in Glasgow. The pledge was due to be fulfilled in 2025. In the meantime the overseas Aid Budget has been cut from 0.7% of GDP to 0.5% and much of what remained went on housing Asylum Seekers in Hotels, Ukraine Refugees and giving Rwanda hundreds of £Ms of money to host 2 Home Secretary's for a Beano and 4 Volunteers paid to go there. Obviously a debate can be had around UKs International responsibilities or not but i doubt a fictitious pledge originally made will be honoured by another fictitious pledge to keep it. www.independent.co.uk/climate-change/news/climate-fund-boris-johnson-aid-cop26-b1877116.html
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Sept 9, 2024 23:03:52 GMT
Even if this was true, what about the remaining 73%? Also, why do train drivers who are already earning very well, get to earn significantly more? Make it make sense. If you don't believe the Tory Organ who are you going to believe www.telegraph.co.uk/money/pensions/news/number-millionaire-pensioners-quadruples/The average Train Driver in UKs salary is about £48K with a starting salary of about £30K www.reed.com/articles/train-driver-salary-benefitsYou may find that excessive on a peer to peer basis. Personally I think it's far more warranted than say a "Marketing Person" who is trying to flog a product that many maybe don't need or can't afford, but maybe that's just me. A Train Driver is a Skilled Profession that requires a range of training and responsibilities not least the safety of passengers. "Marketing" is an empty Profession that produces nothing and only retains loyalty to the "Brand" until the next commission cheque is paid. I could use many other professions as comparators. Sorry but that's just pure ignorance coming from someone who clearly has no understanding of how the sales industry works and what it entails. Firstly, when you say marketing, I think you actually mean sales - The professions are very different. Sales is without doubt one of the most difficult, mentally challenging roles on the planet. There is a reason those in sales can often earn the big six figure packages - Because well over 99% of the population can't do it with high levels of success and the vast majority don't want to do it. I mean who wants to do stuff like sending out 1000 emails at stupid hours and getting a handful of responses and an even smaller handful of mostly, unsuccessful meetings? All while knowing you're gone if you don't bring in the numbers. And then you've got the art of cold calling. Try convincing a senior exec of a big corporate who really doesn't want to speak to you, who gets hundreds of calls and emails daily into giving you more of their time... Not an easy or a desirable thing to have to do. That's just the first stage of the process! Certainly, speaking from being in the IT/Tech industry you can rest assured, the pressure on the tiny proportion of successful salespeople in the industry is on a different stratosphere to that of a train driver. Sales in most environments is pretty simple. If you don't sell, you don't earn the big money and you're likely out of a job where you're earning no money. There is little consistency in earnings, the pressure is relentless, the expectation is never ending and the skill, resilience and responsiveness required in order to make the big money is nigh on unrivalled. And then you've got the long hours, the late nights, the time away from home to go with it. There aren't many professions with similar mental setbacks. The sacrifices are often significant. A train driver has consistency both in terms of earnings, hours and the role and respectfully, the risk and pressure associated with the role isn't even comparable. I feel like you have a very simple view of anything that isn't within the comfort of public sector world. Also just one final bit of ignorance/naivety I wanted to pick up on. You mention a salesperson/marketeer simply "flogs a product that many don't need". Pretty much every single critical thing you make use of in your life will have involved an element of sales at some point in it's lifecycle - The food you buy off the shelf in the supermarket being one example. It's the oldest profession on the planet, one of the most financially high risk, challenging professions on the planet and sales will continue to be a critical profession around the world long after we've both gone. Anyway, I digress. A public funded train driver should not (in my opinion) be earning more than 50k a year and I suspect you're in a minority of those on the left (let alone the right) who are standing in support of that policy. Incidentally, that's nothing against train drivers, who have a useful role in society, which is why they can earn signficantly more than the average UK salary already. Out of interest, do you think entrepreneurs deserve to earn millions when they sell up or are they also serving a useless purpose with loyalty only to their brand?
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Post by wannabee on Sept 10, 2024 0:52:59 GMT
If you don't believe the Tory Organ who are you going to believe www.telegraph.co.uk/money/pensions/news/number-millionaire-pensioners-quadruples/The average Train Driver in UKs salary is about £48K with a starting salary of about £30K www.reed.com/articles/train-driver-salary-benefitsYou may find that excessive on a peer to peer basis. Personally I think it's far more warranted than say a "Marketing Person" who is trying to flog a product that many maybe don't need or can't afford, but maybe that's just me. A Train Driver is a Skilled Profession that requires a range of training and responsibilities not least the safety of passengers. "Marketing" is an empty Profession that produces nothing and only retains loyalty to the "Brand" until the next commission cheque is paid. I could use many other professions as comparators. Sorry but that's just pure ignorance coming from someone who clearly has no understanding of how the sales industry works and what it entails. Firstly, when you say marketing, I think you actually mean sales - The professions are very different. Sales is without doubt one of the most difficult, mentally challenging roles on the planet. There is a reason those in sales can often earn the big six figure packages - Because well over 99% of the population can't do it with high levels of success and the vast majority don't want to do it. I mean who wants to do stuff like sending out 1000 emails at stupid hours and getting a handful of responses and an even smaller handful of mostly, unsuccessful meetings? All while knowing you're gone if you don't bring in the numbers. Certainly, speaking from being in the IT/Tech industry you can rest assured, the pressure on the tiny proportion of successful salespeople in the industry is on a different stratosphere to that of a train driver. Sales in most environments is pretty simple. If you don't sell, you don't earn the big money and you're likely out of a job where you're earning no money. There is little consistency in earnings, the pressure is relentless, the expectation is never ending and the skill, resilience and responsiveness required in order to make the big money is nigh on unrivalled. And then you've got the long hours, the late nights, the time away from home to go with it. There aren't many professions with similar mental setbacks. The sacrifices are often significant. A train driver has consistency both in terms of earnings, hours and the role and respectfully, the risk and pressure associated with the role isn't even comparable. I feel like you have a very simple view of anything that isn't within the comfort of public sector world. Also just one final bit of ignorance/naivety I wanted to pick up on. You mention a salesperson/marketeer simply "flogs a product that many don't need". Pretty much every single critical thing you make use of in your life will have involved an element of sales at some point in it's lifecycle - The food you buy off the shelf in the supermarket being one example. It's the oldest profession on the planet, one of the most financially high risk, challenging professions on the planet and sales will continue to be a critical profession around the world long after we've both gone. Anyway, I digress. A public funded train driver should not (in my opinion) be earning more than 50k a year and I suspect you're in a minority of those on the left (let alone the right) who are standing in support of that policy. Incidentally, that's nothing against train drivers, who have a useful role in society, which is why they can earn signficantly more than the average UK salary already. Out of interest, do you think entrepreneurs deserve to earn millions when they sell up or are they also serving a useless purpose with loyalty only to their brand? Many of your posts whether an opinion or a reply to me or others quite often give me a chuckle and this is no exception The idea that Sales/Marketing is the Oldest Profession in the World is hysterically funny but I grant it does have some similarities to the profession and some practitioners in the actual oldest profession in the world I have no idea what comfort might be gleaned in the Public Sector World having never worked in it. Are the 1000 email like the one's i infrequently receive from Nigerian Prince's? It will come as a great and welcome surprise to commuters that Rail Operators are now Publicly Funded doing away with the necessity of Rail Fares. Like all private enterprise workers be they Train Drivers or Salesmen they seek the best rewards their skills warrant and up to Employers to accept or not. Whether I agree with your assessment that every product consumed has an element of Salesmanship it overlooks the fact that a large portion of that tat wouldn't reach the consumer if not transported by a Freight Train Driver.
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Post by Davef on Sept 10, 2024 6:08:36 GMT
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Post by oggyoggy on Sept 10, 2024 6:31:27 GMT
Because of the ridiculous triple lock, full state pension will increase by a predicted £1,700 a year by the time of the next election. For those eligible who will no longer get the winter fuel payments, I really don’t see what they have to complain about.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Sept 10, 2024 6:44:23 GMT
Because of the ridiculous triple lock, full state pension will increase by a predicted £1,700 a year by the time of the next election. For those eligible who will no longer get the winter fuel payments, I really don’t see what they have to complain about. It's still the lowest state pension awarded in the developed economies.
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Post by wagsastokie on Sept 10, 2024 6:46:08 GMT
Because of the ridiculous triple lock, full state pension will increase by a predicted £1,700 a year by the time of the next election. For those eligible who will no longer get the winter fuel payments, I really don’t see what they have to complain about. Is it not seventeen hundred pounds over the five years It’s estimated to rise four hundred and thirty pounds this coming April One point this is for people on full state pension and retired after a certain point Where as a lot of pensioners retired before this date and get less
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Post by salopstick on Sept 10, 2024 6:56:35 GMT
Because of the ridiculous triple lock, full state pension will increase by a predicted £1,700 a year by the time of the next election. For those eligible who will no longer get the winter fuel payments, I really don’t see what they have to complain about. so the state pension is going to go up by £340 a year for the next 5 years and you begrudge them that you are not in the real world
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Post by salopstick on Sept 10, 2024 6:57:25 GMT
more criminals on the street to reoffend under this government
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Post by oggyoggy on Sept 10, 2024 7:05:26 GMT
Because of the ridiculous triple lock, full state pension will increase by a predicted £1,700 a year by the time of the next election. For those eligible who will no longer get the winter fuel payments, I really don’t see what they have to complain about. It's still the lowest state pension awarded in the developed economies. Yes. But it will be a lot less for those currently under 50.
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Post by oggyoggy on Sept 10, 2024 7:07:32 GMT
Because of the ridiculous triple lock, full state pension will increase by a predicted £1,700 a year by the time of the next election. For those eligible who will no longer get the winter fuel payments, I really don’t see what they have to complain about. Is it not seventeen hundred pounds over the five years It’s estimated to rise four hundred and thirty pounds this coming April One point this is for people on full state pension and retired after a certain point Where as a lot of pensioners retired before this date and get less Most who get less, who also don’t have private pensions, are eligible for pension credits and the winter fuel allowance. www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/09/09/rachel-reeves-1700-pensioners-winter-fuel-revolt/
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Post by salopstick on Sept 10, 2024 7:07:59 GMT
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Post by oggyoggy on Sept 10, 2024 7:09:38 GMT
Because of the ridiculous triple lock, full state pension will increase by a predicted £1,700 a year by the time of the next election. For those eligible who will no longer get the winter fuel payments, I really don’t see what they have to complain about. so the state pension is going to go up by £340 a year for the next 5 years and you begrudge them that you are not in the real world I begrudge the triple lock, which benefits one of the richest group in society. The 27% of pensioners who are millionaires. And it is paid for by current working people who on average take home less income than pensioners.
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Post by wagsastokie on Sept 10, 2024 7:16:48 GMT
so the state pension is going to go up by £340 a year for the next 5 years and you begrudge them that you are not in the real world I begrudge the triple lock, which benefits one of the richest group in society. The 27% of pensioners who are millionaires. And it is paid for by current working people who on average take home less income than pensioners. This 27 percent of pensioners who are alleged millionaires How many of them have a disposable income higher than current working people Or does this 27 percent include many who are placed in this alleged category because of the price of their home of which this winter they will struggle to heat
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Post by oggyoggy on Sept 10, 2024 7:39:48 GMT
I begrudge the triple lock, which benefits one of the richest group in society. The 27% of pensioners who are millionaires. And it is paid for by current working people who on average take home less income than pensioners. This 27 percent of pensioners who are alleged millionaires How many of them have a disposable income higher than current working people Or does this 27 percent include many who are placed in this alleged category because of the price of their home of which this winter they will struggle to heat Yes, the really deprived people in society who need state benefits are the people who outright own property worth over £1m! Poor folk. Imagine if that attitude was taken with other state benefits. Those moaning about the winter fuel allowance and who defend the triple lock would be up in arms.
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Post by salopstick on Sept 10, 2024 7:40:16 GMT
so the state pension is going to go up by £340 a year for the next 5 years and you begrudge them that you are not in the real world I begrudge the triple lock, which benefits one of the richest group in society. The 27% of pensioners who are millionaires. And it is paid for by current working people who on average take home less income than pensioners. but ignore the 73% of pensioners who actually need it yep not in the real world
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Sept 10, 2024 7:49:08 GMT
Sorry but that's just pure ignorance coming from someone who clearly has no understanding of how the sales industry works and what it entails. Firstly, when you say marketing, I think you actually mean sales - The professions are very different. Sales is without doubt one of the most difficult, mentally challenging roles on the planet. There is a reason those in sales can often earn the big six figure packages - Because well over 99% of the population can't do it with high levels of success and the vast majority don't want to do it. I mean who wants to do stuff like sending out 1000 emails at stupid hours and getting a handful of responses and an even smaller handful of mostly, unsuccessful meetings? All while knowing you're gone if you don't bring in the numbers. Certainly, speaking from being in the IT/Tech industry you can rest assured, the pressure on the tiny proportion of successful salespeople in the industry is on a different stratosphere to that of a train driver. Sales in most environments is pretty simple. If you don't sell, you don't earn the big money and you're likely out of a job where you're earning no money. There is little consistency in earnings, the pressure is relentless, the expectation is never ending and the skill, resilience and responsiveness required in order to make the big money is nigh on unrivalled. And then you've got the long hours, the late nights, the time away from home to go with it. There aren't many professions with similar mental setbacks. The sacrifices are often significant. A train driver has consistency both in terms of earnings, hours and the role and respectfully, the risk and pressure associated with the role isn't even comparable. I feel like you have a very simple view of anything that isn't within the comfort of public sector world. Also just one final bit of ignorance/naivety I wanted to pick up on. You mention a salesperson/marketeer simply "flogs a product that many don't need". Pretty much every single critical thing you make use of in your life will have involved an element of sales at some point in it's lifecycle - The food you buy off the shelf in the supermarket being one example. It's the oldest profession on the planet, one of the most financially high risk, challenging professions on the planet and sales will continue to be a critical profession around the world long after we've both gone. Anyway, I digress. A public funded train driver should not (in my opinion) be earning more than 50k a year and I suspect you're in a minority of those on the left (let alone the right) who are standing in support of that policy. Incidentally, that's nothing against train drivers, who have a useful role in society, which is why they can earn signficantly more than the average UK salary already. Out of interest, do you think entrepreneurs deserve to earn millions when they sell up or are they also serving a useless purpose with loyalty only to their brand? Many of your posts whether an opinion or a reply to me or others quite often give me a chuckle and this is no exception The idea that Sales/Marketing is the Oldest Profession in the World is hysterically funny but I grant it does have some similarities to the profession and some practitioners in the actual oldest profession in the world I have no idea what comfort might be gleaned in the Public Sector World having never worked in it. Are the 1000 email like the one's i infrequently receive from Nigerian Prince's? It will come as a great and welcome surprise to commuters that Rail Operators are now Publicly Funded doing away with the necessity of Rail Fares. Like all private enterprise workers be they Train Drivers or Salesmen they seek the best rewards their skills warrant and up to Employers to accept or not. Whether I agree with your assessment that every product consumed has an element of Salesmanship it overlooks the fact that a large portion of that tat wouldn't reach the consumer if not transported by a Freight Train Driver. Talk about backing out of a debate. I think you've probably quickly realised that your assessment of a train driver vs a salesperson was pretty wayward, which is fine 😊 Re sales being the oldest profession in the world. That is a fairly obvious fact, not an opinion - Be that via agriculture, trade or everyone's favorite, prostitution. Your description of train drivers is fine and I've clearly stated that they have a purpose, but they don't need to earn double the average salary do they? 😂 And you can't deny the reasons I've highlighted as to why a top salesperson earns well and deserves to earn well given the associated risks and challenges they face. You avoided my point around entrepreneurs. Does a successful entrepreneur deserve to earn millions? It's not a trap or a trick question, I'm intrigued.
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Post by oggyoggy on Sept 10, 2024 7:51:17 GMT
I begrudge the triple lock, which benefits one of the richest group in society. The 27% of pensioners who are millionaires. And it is paid for by current working people who on average take home less income than pensioners. but ignore the 73% of pensioners who actually need it yep not in the real world My dad is in that 73%. He has given the winter fuel allowance to charity for years, and finds it incredible that his state pension keeps rising when he doesn’t need it. He isn’t a millionaire. State pension should increase with inflation. Like other benefits, for example, to disabled people or carers. Why should pensioners who are often millionaires, get potentially bigger increases than someone caring for a disabled child?
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Post by salopstick on Sept 10, 2024 8:05:49 GMT
You are telling me that "pensioners who are often millionaires" you omit that many of these "millionaire pensioners" are still paying income tax in large amounts, some are responsible for other peoples jobs and still making a worthwhile contribution to UK economy
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Post by oggyoggy on Sept 10, 2024 8:14:22 GMT
You are telling me that "pensioners who are often millionaires" you omit that many of these "millionaire pensioners" are still paying income tax in large amounts, some are responsible for other peoples jobs and still making a worthwhile contribution to UK economy They contribute enormously and they are soundly rewarded for it having never paid tuition fees, they got their final salary private pensions and bought their house which has quadrupled in value. In all likelihood they contribute less per year to the economy than a carer whose disabled child would need 24/7 care by the state for life if the parent wasn’t willing or able to care for the child. Yet the pensioner should not be means tested for fuel allowance and should get potentially larger rises in their benefits over the carer of the disabled child. It isn’t right.
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Post by wannabee on Sept 10, 2024 8:17:56 GMT
I was aware of the article Dave and the pledge, my contention is that since that pledge was made other pledges have been discarded reducing the value of the overall pledge. I am dubious if/when Labour decides to honour the pledge made back in 2021 how much it will have actually contributed in the round. I guess we will have to wait and see.
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Post by elystokie on Sept 10, 2024 8:19:38 GMT
I begrudge the triple lock, which benefits one of the richest group in society. The 27% of pensioners who are millionaires. And it is paid for by current working people who on average take home less income than pensioners. This 27 percent of pensioners who are alleged millionaires How many of them have a disposable income higher than current working people Or does this 27 percent include many who are placed in this alleged category because of the price of their home of which this winter they will struggle to heat If they have an expensive home they can't afford to heat there's a pretty obvious solution. That solution to me isn't to expect the already beleaguered taxpayer struggling to bring up kids and pay their rent to subsidise it 🤔
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Post by emretezzy on Sept 10, 2024 8:22:50 GMT
but ignore the 73% of pensioners who actually need it yep not in the real world My dad is in that 73%. He has given the winter fuel allowance to charity for years, and finds it incredible that his state pension keeps rising when he doesn’t need it. He isn’t a millionaire. State pension should increase with inflation. Like other benefits, for example, to disabled people or carers. Why should pensioners who are often millionaires, get potentially bigger increases than someone caring for a disabled child? Even labour numbnuts hate this policy. It goes against everything they stand for. Still here you are dying on a hill. You've even brought your poor dad into it!
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Post by emretezzy on Sept 10, 2024 8:26:13 GMT
This 27 percent of pensioners who are alleged millionaires How many of them have a disposable income higher than current working people Or does this 27 percent include many who are placed in this alleged category because of the price of their home of which this winter they will struggle to heat If they have an expensive home they can't afford to heat there's a pretty obvious solution. That solution to me isn't to expect the already beleaguered taxpayer struggling to bring up kids and pay their rent to subsidise it 🤔 That is the inherent problem with you and Karl Oggy. You work hard all your life to get a house. You pay your taxes, bring up a family and now you are sat in your house not with as much money as you perhaps once had as you are retired or a partner could have died etc... What do you want them do... sell their house to pay for some work shy fucks so they can have a bit of free dollar. Go get fucked the lot of ya!
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Post by oggyoggy on Sept 10, 2024 8:29:13 GMT
My dad is in that 73%. He has given the winter fuel allowance to charity for years, and finds it incredible that his state pension keeps rising when he doesn’t need it. He isn’t a millionaire. State pension should increase with inflation. Like other benefits, for example, to disabled people or carers. Why should pensioners who are often millionaires, get potentially bigger increases than someone caring for a disabled child? Even labour numbnuts hate this policy. It goes against everything they stand for. Still here you are dying on a hill. You've even brought your poor dad into it! My dad isn’t poor. He isn’t rich either. And that’s precisely my point. He doesn’t need state benefits. There are many more people in society that do. In my opinion they need to raise the threshold where pensioners can claim the winter fuel allowance payment. Pension credit recipients is too low. What is your view? Do you think Lord Sugar, King Charles, Tony Blair should get winter fuel allowance and bigger increases to state payments than the carers of disabled children?
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Post by oggyoggy on Sept 10, 2024 8:31:09 GMT
If they have an expensive home they can't afford to heat there's a pretty obvious solution. That solution to me isn't to expect the already beleaguered taxpayer struggling to bring up kids and pay their rent to subsidise it 🤔 That is the inherent problem with you and Karl Oggy. You work hard all your life to get a house. You pay your taxes, bring up a family and now you are sat in your house not with as much money as you perhaps once had as you are retired or a partner could have died etc... What do you want them do... sell their house to pay for some work shy fucks so they can have a bit of free dollar. Go get fucked the lot of ya! I’m sure their final salary pension can afford to switch the heating on. They could do what my in-laws have done in retirement and what my father just did in retirement and downsize to a more appropriate sized home. Why should they get free money from the state regardless of wealth? I bet you wouldn’t say the same thing about universal income being introduced.
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Post by elystokie on Sept 10, 2024 8:31:28 GMT
If they have an expensive home they can't afford to heat there's a pretty obvious solution. That solution to me isn't to expect the already beleaguered taxpayer struggling to bring up kids and pay their rent to subsidise it 🤔 That is the inherent problem with you and Karl Oggy. You work hard all your life to get a house. You pay your taxes, bring up a family and now you are sat in your house not with as much money as you perhaps once had as you are retired or a partner could have died etc... What do you want them do... sell their house to pay for some work shy fucks so they can have a bit of free dollar. Go get fucked the lot of ya! If you can't afford to heat the house you live you evidently haven't saved quite enough. So rather than move somewhere affordable you expect everyone else to contribute to the lifestyle you wanted but haven't planned for? 🤣
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