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Post by prestwichpotter on Sept 10, 2024 8:34:43 GMT
Pensioners will be dead soon and most of them don't vote Labour anyway.
I'm being deliberately obtuse, but if it was the Tories and another group of people were on the receiving end many would just say it's "clever politics"
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Post by emretezzy on Sept 10, 2024 8:40:04 GMT
That is the inherent problem with you and Karl Oggy. You work hard all your life to get a house. You pay your taxes, bring up a family and now you are sat in your house not with as much money as you perhaps once had as you are retired or a partner could have died etc... What do you want them do... sell their house to pay for some work shy fucks so they can have a bit of free dollar. Go get fucked the lot of ya! If you can't afford to heat the house you live you evidently haven't saved quite enough. So rather than move somewhere affordable you expect everyone else to contribute to the lifestyle you wanted but haven't planned for? π€£ Just out of interest why don't you like the older generation but happily give money to middle aged people who you "expect everyone else to contribute to the lifestyle they wanted but haven't planned for π". Weird. What age do you start to dislike people and not want to help them. Is a specific cut-off... 56 say?
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Post by emretezzy on Sept 10, 2024 8:40:48 GMT
Pensioners will be dead soon and most of them don't vote Labour anyway. I'm being deliberately obtuse, but if it was the Tories and another group of people were on the receiving end many would just say it's "clever politics" I genuinely wouldn't Prestwich.
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Post by desman2 on Sept 10, 2024 8:44:29 GMT
That is the inherent problem with you and Karl Oggy. You work hard all your life to get a house. You pay your taxes, bring up a family and now you are sat in your house not with as much money as you perhaps once had as you are retired or a partner could have died etc... What do you want them do... sell their house to pay for some work shy fucks so they can have a bit of free dollar. Go get fucked the lot of ya! If you can't afford to heat the house you live you evidently haven't saved quite enough. So rather than move somewhere affordable you expect everyone else to contribute to the lifestyle you wanted but haven't planned for? π€£ You could put a hell of a lot of people with different circumstances under that umbrella.
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Post by emretezzy on Sept 10, 2024 8:46:20 GMT
That is the inherent problem with you and Karl Oggy. You work hard all your life to get a house. You pay your taxes, bring up a family and now you are sat in your house not with as much money as you perhaps once had as you are retired or a partner could have died etc... What do you want them do... sell their house to pay for some work shy fucks so they can have a bit of free dollar. Go get fucked the lot of ya! Iβm sure their final salary pension can afford to switch the heating on. They could do what my in-laws have done in retirement and what my father just did in retirement and downsize to a more appropriate sized home. Why should they get free money from the state regardless of wealth? I bet you wouldnβt say the same thing about universal income being introduced. Bloody hell Oggy. We get it, you and your family are clearly outsanding awe-inspiring citizens who everyone should thrive to be.
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Post by emretezzy on Sept 10, 2024 8:47:05 GMT
If you can't afford to heat the house you live you evidently haven't saved quite enough. So rather than move somewhere affordable you expect everyone else to contribute to the lifestyle you wanted but haven't planned for? π€£ You could put a hell of a lot of people with different circumstances under that umbrella. The irony. It will fall on deaf ears but the absurdity of that post will live long on...
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Post by elystokie on Sept 10, 2024 8:50:22 GMT
If you can't afford to heat the house you live you evidently haven't saved quite enough. So rather than move somewhere affordable you expect everyone else to contribute to the lifestyle you wanted but haven't planned for? π€£ Just out of interest why don't you like the older generation but happily give money to middle aged people who you "expect everyone else to contribute to the lifestyle they wanted but haven't planned for π". Weird. What age do you start to dislike people and not want to help them. Is a specific cut-off... 56 say? Why are you assigning things to me I haven't said? Again. And you call me weird π€
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Post by elystokie on Sept 10, 2024 8:50:51 GMT
If you can't afford to heat the house you live you evidently haven't saved quite enough. So rather than move somewhere affordable you expect everyone else to contribute to the lifestyle you wanted but haven't planned for? π€£ You could put a hell of a lot of people with different circumstances under that umbrella. I'm listening.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Sept 10, 2024 8:53:13 GMT
You could put a hell of a lot of people with different circumstances under that umbrella. The irony. It will fall on deaf ears but the absurdity of that post will live long on... Ely makes a mischievous post (I'm guessing) around the fact that many people in society get told to cut their cloth accordingly, by getting rid of their smart phones, their Sky TV, expensive supermarket brands and fish and chip suppers on a Friday night. I suppose following that logic pensioners should be doing the same........
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Post by elystokie on Sept 10, 2024 9:01:28 GMT
You could put a hell of a lot of people with different circumstances under that umbrella. The irony. It will fall on deaf ears but the absurdity of that post will live long on... My ex-mother-in-law lives alone in a five bedroom house, her choice. Kids are going without food, we can't afford to house people, health services are a mess etc But it's not absurd for the taxpayer to contribute to her heating bills as a priority over other issues? Give over π
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Post by salopstick on Sept 10, 2024 9:13:38 GMT
Even labour numbnuts hate this policy. It goes against everything they stand for. Still here you are dying on a hill. You've even brought your poor dad into it! My dad isnβt poor. He isnβt rich either. And thatβs precisely my point. He doesnβt need state benefits. There are many more people in society that do. In my opinion they need to raise the threshold where pensioners can claim the winter fuel allowance payment. Pension credit recipients is too low. What is your view? Do you think Lord Sugar, King Charles, Tony Blair should get winter fuel allowance and bigger increases to state payments than the carers of disabled children? the point is there are a lot of people who dont need universal retirement benefits but the savings to means testing them is lost in the means testing cost this winter fuel allowance is a political not financial decsion
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Sept 10, 2024 9:17:19 GMT
The irony. It will fall on deaf ears but the absurdity of that post will live long on... My ex-mother-in-law lives alone in a five bedroom house, her choice. Kids are going without food, we can't afford to house people, health services are a mess etc But it's not absurd for the taxpayer to contribute to her heating bills as a priority over other issues? Give over π We are sending 11.5bn overseas on some vanity net zero project or whatever bollox it is. The winter fuel cut saves dip shit starmer 1.5bn. Wonder what we could do π€ Maybe send 10bn on the vanity project and keep 1.5bn to avoid all those old people dying as Starmer said back in the day when the "scum" tories were considering it. Hundreds of thousands of old people will struggle this winter because of this policy and starmer knows it because he said it in the past. The new admin is just as duplicitous as the last. Yay π
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Post by elystokie on Sept 10, 2024 9:28:08 GMT
My ex-mother-in-law lives alone in a five bedroom house, her choice. Kids are going without food, we can't afford to house people, health services are a mess etc But it's not absurd for the taxpayer to contribute to her heating bills as a priority over other issues? Give over π We are sending 11.5bn overseas on some vanity net zero project or whatever bollox it is. The winter fuel cut saves dip shit starmer 1.5bn. Wonder what we could do π€ Maybe send 10bn on the vanity project and keep 1.5bn to avoid all those old people dying as Starmer said back in the day when the "scum" tories were considering it. Hundreds of thousands of old people will struggle this winter because of this policy and starmer knows it because he said it in the past. The new admin is just as duplicitous as the last. Yay π Or stop pissing Β£20 billion a year up the wall fighting a war that was never going to be won and in which that money makes a negligible difference anyway π€· However, I'm sure there are needier cases than people like my ex MIL when compared with struggling families. She could sell it, buy 2 nice flats, and live a comfortable life in one off her pensions and the rent off the other π And some more kids might get fed π
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Post by prestwichpotter on Sept 10, 2024 9:34:34 GMT
My ex-mother-in-law lives alone in a five bedroom house, her choice. Kids are going without food, we can't afford to house people, health services are a mess etc But it's not absurd for the taxpayer to contribute to her heating bills as a priority over other issues? Give over π We are sending 11.5bn overseas on some vanity net zero project or whatever bollox it is. The winter fuel cut saves dip shit starmer 1.5bn. Wonder what we could do π€ Maybe send 10bn on the vanity project and keep 1.5bn to avoid all those old people dying as Starmer said back in the day when the "scum" tories were considering it. Hundreds of thousands of old people will struggle this winter because of this policy and starmer knows it because he said it in the past. The new admin is just as duplicitous as the last. Yay π Just to be clear on this 22 billion black hole rhetoric coming from Labour currently it equates to 2% of a Β£1.3 trillion economy. Whilst it's not an insignificant number, decisions such as the winter fuel allowance are a political choice. Whether we agree or disagree on that is another matter......
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Sept 10, 2024 9:37:15 GMT
We are sending 11.5bn overseas on some vanity net zero project or whatever bollox it is. The winter fuel cut saves dip shit starmer 1.5bn. Wonder what we could do π€ Maybe send 10bn on the vanity project and keep 1.5bn to avoid all those old people dying as Starmer said back in the day when the "scum" tories were considering it. Hundreds of thousands of old people will struggle this winter because of this policy and starmer knows it because he said it in the past. The new admin is just as duplicitous as the last. Yay π Or stop pissing Β£20 billion a year up the wall fighting a war that was never going to be won and in which that money makes a negligible difference anyway π€· However, I'm sure there are needier cases than people like my ex MIL when compared with struggling families. She could sell it, buy 2 nice flats, and live a comfortable life in one off her pensions and the rent off the other π And some more kids might get fed π Fair point on the 20bn. Some old people have many reasons they remain in the house they have lived a life in and married and brought up children. I don't buy the concept of forcing people into a position whereby they have to sell what is probably their most precious possession. The house might be worth a million quid but said old person won't necessarily see a penny of it. They will die eventually and the house returns to the market. A better solution would be to build more sustainable housing of differing varieties to ensure the more needy have a chance of a better life. Not kicking old people out when they just want to try and spend the last few years of their life surrounded by their precious memories.
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Post by elystokie on Sept 10, 2024 9:43:34 GMT
Or stop pissing Β£20 billion a year up the wall fighting a war that was never going to be won and in which that money makes a negligible difference anyway π€· However, I'm sure there are needier cases than people like my ex MIL when compared with struggling families. She could sell it, buy 2 nice flats, and live a comfortable life in one off her pensions and the rent off the other π And some more kids might get fed π Fair point on the 20bn. Some old people have many reasons they remain in the house they have lived a life in and married and brought up children. I don't buy the concept of forcing people into a position whereby they have to sell what is probably their most precious possession. The house might be worth a million quid but said old person won't necessarily see a penny of it. They will die eventually and the house returns to the market. A better solution would be to build more sustainable housing of differing varieties to ensure the more needy have a chance of a better life. Not kicking old people out when they just want to try and spend the last few years of their life surrounded by their precious memories. That's fair enough, I just don't believe I should have to pay for it as a taxpayer when there are more pressing concerns. Mate of mine had an annexe built next to his house for his MIL from the proceeds of the sale of her own house. Living in some sort of community or close to relatives and friends is surely better for their health anyway? I think the only people my ex MIL sees on a regular basis are the carers that visit.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Sept 10, 2024 9:49:13 GMT
Fair point on the 20bn. Some old people have many reasons they remain in the house they have lived a life in and married and brought up children. I don't buy the concept of forcing people into a position whereby they have to sell what is probably their most precious possession. The house might be worth a million quid but said old person won't necessarily see a penny of it. They will die eventually and the house returns to the market. A better solution would be to build more sustainable housing of differing varieties to ensure the more needy have a chance of a better life. Not kicking old people out when they just want to try and spend the last few years of their life surrounded by their precious memories. That's fair enough, I just don't believe I should have to pay for it as a taxpayer when there are more pressing concerns. Mate of mine had an annexe built next to his house for his MIL from the proceeds of the sale of her own house. Living in some sort of community or close to relatives and friends is surely better for their health anyway? I think the only people my ex MIL sees on a regular basis are the carers that visit. Fair play to your mate. Building a gaff next door to put your mother in law in. His wife must have him well trained π π€£
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Post by wannabee on Sept 10, 2024 9:55:02 GMT
Many of your posts whether an opinion or a reply to me or others quite often give me a chuckle and this is no exception The idea that Sales/Marketing is the Oldest Profession in the World is hysterically funny but I grant it does have some similarities to the profession and some practitioners in the actual oldest profession in the world I have no idea what comfort might be gleaned in the Public Sector World having never worked in it. Are the 1000 email like the one's i infrequently receive from Nigerian Prince's? It will come as a great and welcome surprise to commuters that Rail Operators are now Publicly Funded doing away with the necessity of Rail Fares. Like all private enterprise workers be they Train Drivers or Salesmen they seek the best rewards their skills warrant and up to Employers to accept or not. Whether I agree with your assessment that every product consumed has an element of Salesmanship it overlooks the fact that a large portion of that tat wouldn't reach the consumer if not transported by a Freight Train Driver. Talk about backing out of a debate. I think you've probably quickly realised that your assessment of a train driver vs a salesperson was pretty wayward, which is fine π Re sales being the oldest profession in the world. That is a fairly obvious fact, not an opinion - Be that via agriculture, trade or everyone's favorite, prostitution. Your description of train drivers is fine and I've clearly stated that they have a purpose, but they don't need to earn double the average salary do they? π And you can't deny the reasons I've highlighted as to why a top salesperson earns well and deserves to earn well given the associated risks and challenges they face. You avoided my point around entrepreneurs. Does a successful entrepreneur deserve to earn millions? It's not a trap or a trick question, I'm intrigued. That's twice in a row now you have made assumptions, incorrectly, about what I meant rather than what I wrote And no I don't think a Salesperson, in general, has equivalent skills, training or responsibilities of a Train Driver but or course feel free to hold an alternative view it is subjective as their skill sets and jobs are very different. It's self evident that Salespeople have been around longer than Train Drivers as Trains themselves are relatively new inventions, so what relevance does that have. If you are going to quote figures at least do so accurately (I provided them to you in a link). The average salary in UK is Β£29,669, the average Train Drivers salary is Β£48,500 which is 63% above the average not double as you claimed and putting a supercilious emoji after your false claim doesn't make it any less incorrect. The salary's of Train Drivers is quite clearly defined as is the education, emotional skills, training (pun intended) and years of experience. A Salesperson has no clearly defined function as they might be peddling Jelly Beans or a Nuclear Reactor. The former requires no particular skills the latter most likely requires a Science Degree to understand the product which they are selling. Therefore it is ludicrous to treat Salespeople as Homogenous and interchangeable I didn't address your point about Entrepreneurs as the subject being discussed was Train Drivers salaries and your contention that Salespeople had a higher level of skill. The reason being I felt it was another attempt by you to take the conversation off at a tangent and present a Straw Man argument.
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Post by wagsastokie on Sept 10, 2024 9:57:15 GMT
Even labour numbnuts hate this policy. It goes against everything they stand for. Still here you are dying on a hill. You've even brought your poor dad into it! My dad isnβt poor. He isnβt rich either. And thatβs precisely my point. He doesnβt need state benefits. There are many more people in society that do. In my opinion they need to raise the threshold where pensioners can claim the winter fuel allowance payment. Pension credit recipients is too low. What is your view? Do you think Lord Sugar, King Charles, Tony Blair should get winter fuel allowance and bigger increases to state payments than the carers of disabled children? Well youβve probably hit the nail on the head Nobody thinks sugar Blair etc should get a winter fuel allowance But itβs how you go from universal to non universal this government has chosen the easiest option linking to a target already there and choosing to do it with little notice If they had said in the winter of 25/26 thus giving around 18 month notice we will reduce those eligible for winter fuel allowance to those with annual income of 16,500 roughly the alleged poverty threshold then I would imagine it would of received considerably less negative reception As it stands to do it with such short notice and setting it at such a low figure Saving what is basically a very small amount in the grand scheme of things It comes across as callous and vindictive And when the first pensioners hit the hospital trolleys and the inevitable winter deaths the shit there getting now will be minimal
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Post by mrcoke on Sept 10, 2024 10:07:42 GMT
We are sending 11.5bn overseas on some vanity net zero project or whatever bollox it is. The winter fuel cut saves dip shit starmer 1.5bn. Wonder what we could do π€ Maybe send 10bn on the vanity project and keep 1.5bn to avoid all those old people dying as Starmer said back in the day when the "scum" tories were considering it. Hundreds of thousands of old people will struggle this winter because of this policy and starmer knows it because he said it in the past. The new admin is just as duplicitous as the last. Yay π Or stop pissing Β£20 billion a year up the wall fighting a war that was never going to be won and in which that money makes a negligible difference anyway π€· However, I'm sure there are needier cases than people like my ex MIL when compared with struggling families. She could sell it, buy 2 nice flats, and live a comfortable life in one off her pensions and the rent off the other π And some more kids might get fed π This country is right to support Ukraine and Israel. If we don't , history teaches us it could be us next. www.brainyquote.com/photos_tr/en/h/haileselassie/540912/haileselassie1-2x.jpg
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Sept 10, 2024 10:10:23 GMT
Or stop pissing Β£20 billion a year up the wall fighting a war that was never going to be won and in which that money makes a negligible difference anyway π€· However, I'm sure there are needier cases than people like my ex MIL when compared with struggling families. She could sell it, buy 2 nice flats, and live a comfortable life in one off her pensions and the rent off the other π And some more kids might get fed π This country is right to support Ukraine and Israel. If we don't , history teaches us it could be us next. www.brainyquote.com/photos_tr/en/h/haileselassie/540912/haileselassie1-2x.jpgHe's on about the war on drugs π
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Post by gawa on Sept 10, 2024 10:11:16 GMT
I begrudge the triple lock, which benefits one of the richest group in society. The 27% of pensioners who are millionaires. And it is paid for by current working people who on average take home less income than pensioners. This 27 percent of pensioners who are alleged millionaires How many of them have a disposable income higher than current working people Or does this 27 percent include many who are placed in this alleged category because of the price of their home of which this winter they will struggle to heat Nothing stopping them from selling their home. Only one set of my grandparents owned their home but they downgraded to a flat when they got older and used the money left over to subsidise them with retirement. There are many young people with young families who are also struggling. But none of them have the option of a million pound asset to sell. I have sympathy for pensioners and don't think the winter Fuel payment should be scrapped. But I'm not going to be getting my small violin out for someone with a million pound house who can't afford their heating. The same pensioners are quick to tell young people they can't afford homes due to guacamole and Netflix subscriptions. So it's a bit rich to say you can't heat a home while sitting on a million quid house.
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Post by phileetin on Sept 10, 2024 10:11:54 GMT
That is the inherent problem with you and Karl Oggy. You work hard all your life to get a house. You pay your taxes, bring up a family and now you are sat in your house not with as much money as you perhaps once had as you are retired or a partner could have died etc... What do you want them do... sell their house to pay for some work shy fucks so they can have a bit of free dollar. Go get fucked the lot of ya! If you can't afford to heat the house you live you evidently haven't saved quite enough. So rather than move somewhere affordable you expect everyone else to contribute to the lifestyle you wanted but haven't planned for? π€£
bit like the child benefit cap .
if you can't afford the kids , rather than wear a contraceptive you expect everyone else to contribute to the lifestyle you want but can't afford .
slam dunk
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Sept 10, 2024 10:16:01 GMT
This 27 percent of pensioners who are alleged millionaires How many of them have a disposable income higher than current working people Or does this 27 percent include many who are placed in this alleged category because of the price of their home of which this winter they will struggle to heat Nothing stopping them from selling their home. Only one set of my grandparents owned their home but they downgraded to a flat when they got older and used the money left over to subsidise them with retirement. There are many young people with young families who are also struggling. But none of them have the option of a million pound asset to sell. I have sympathy for pensioners and don't think the winter Fuel payment should be scrapped. But I'm not going to be getting my small violin out for someone with a million pound house who can't afford their heating. The same pensioners are quick to tell young people they can't afford homes due to guacamole and Netflix subscriptions. So it's a bit rich to say you can't heat a home while sitting on a million quid house. They'd be orate if they were still allowed to chuck a few logs or briquettes on the fireplace....π And believe it or not not all old people hate the younger generation. In fact from what I see quite the opposite. Although I am finding younger people are actively being encouraged to treat the boomer generation with distain. Starmer is taking that to new levels...
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Post by gawa on Sept 10, 2024 10:17:54 GMT
Or stop pissing Β£20 billion a year up the wall fighting a war that was never going to be won and in which that money makes a negligible difference anyway π€· However, I'm sure there are needier cases than people like my ex MIL when compared with struggling families. She could sell it, buy 2 nice flats, and live a comfortable life in one off her pensions and the rent off the other π And some more kids might get fed π This country is right to support Ukraine and Israel. If we don't , history teaches us it could be us next. www.brainyquote.com/photos_tr/en/h/haileselassie/540912/haileselassie1-2x.jpgCouldn't disagree more on both counts. But that's for a different thread.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Sept 10, 2024 10:23:33 GMT
Or stop pissing Β£20 billion a year up the wall fighting a war that was never going to be won and in which that money makes a negligible difference anyway π€· However, I'm sure there are needier cases than people like my ex MIL when compared with struggling families. She could sell it, buy 2 nice flats, and live a comfortable life in one off her pensions and the rent off the other π And some more kids might get fed π This country is right to support Ukraine and Israel. If we don't , history teaches us it could be us next. www.brainyquote.com/photos_tr/en/h/haileselassie/540912/haileselassie1-2x.jpgWhy the hell are we "right" to support Israel?
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Sept 10, 2024 10:24:50 GMT
The more I watch him at the TUC, the more I realise he's a duplicitous wanker.
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Post by gawa on Sept 10, 2024 10:25:34 GMT
Nothing stopping them from selling their home. Only one set of my grandparents owned their home but they downgraded to a flat when they got older and used the money left over to subsidise them with retirement. There are many young people with young families who are also struggling. But none of them have the option of a million pound asset to sell. I have sympathy for pensioners and don't think the winter Fuel payment should be scrapped. But I'm not going to be getting my small violin out for someone with a million pound house who can't afford their heating. The same pensioners are quick to tell young people they can't afford homes due to guacamole and Netflix subscriptions. So it's a bit rich to say you can't heat a home while sitting on a million quid house. They'd be orate if they were still allowed to chuck a few logs or briquettes on the fireplace....π And believe it or not not all old people hate the younger generation. In fact from what I see quite the opposite. Although I am finding younger people are actively being encouraged to treat the boomer generation with distain. Starmer is taking that to new levels... We have the same issue in Ireland were they're trying to cut down on peat usage in winter which lots of people in the countryside use. I'm against that. Nobodies treating them with distain. My net worth would be lucky to be 1% of what some of these pensioners have including assets. They've got an option many of us don't. Pensioner poverty is a real thing and we have one of the lowest state pensions in the western world. I don't think handouts should be going to those who are asset rich. I support increases in state pension and a Winter Fuel Allowance. I just don't support it for those who don't need it.
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Post by wagsastokie on Sept 10, 2024 10:31:48 GMT
This 27 percent of pensioners who are alleged millionaires How many of them have a disposable income higher than current working people Or does this 27 percent include many who are placed in this alleged category because of the price of their home of which this winter they will struggle to heat Nothing stopping them from selling their home. Only one set of my grandparents owned their home but they downgraded to a flat when they got older and used the money left over to subsidise them with retirement. There are many young people with young families who are also struggling. But none of them have the option of a million pound asset to sell. I have sympathy for pensioners and don't think the winter Fuel payment should be scrapped. But I'm not going to be getting my small violin out for someone with a million pound house who can't afford their heating. The same pensioners are quick to tell young people they can't afford homes due to guacamole and Netflix subscriptions. So it's a bit rich to say you can't heat a home while sitting on a million quid house. I would imagine this million pound home depends on where you live A million pound home in Norfolk and Staffordshire are considerably different to a million pound house in London or the surrounding commuter belt In Norfolk you could sell your million pound house and move into a very pleasant large house and pocket a few hundred grand I suspect thatβs not quite the same as London and the Home Counties
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Post by wagsastokie on Sept 10, 2024 10:32:28 GMT
The more I watch him at the TUC, the more I realsie he's a duplicitous wanker. Iβm shocked itβs took you so long
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