|
Post by wannabee on Jul 15, 2024 22:56:44 GMT
Could be he’s a duplicitous tosser And maybe he’s now showing his true position now he doesn’t need people’s votes Anyone who cannot see the Israeli prime minister is a genocidal wanker is either complicit Or been bought and paid for To be clear, the tories filed the original government position, and kept it secret because of the election. It only came out when the ICC released papers relating to the case. Labour, once elected, said they were going to withdraw the government’s application. Now it seems they have changed position, presumably after now having taken proper advice. It is all quite odd. The question is about the jurisdiction of the ICC and how it links to the Oslo Accords. It isn’t about whether or not Netanyahu is a genocidal wanker. Perhaps I should have been more fulsome in my response to Paul, the reason I didn't is because there are conflicting reports and quite frankly I'm not sure which to believe The original report that UK was going to withdraw it's objections appeared in the Guardian Article below (extract) At this point, which I should have made clearer, is that I'm content to await a final decision which I believe must be made by 26th July and the rationale for that decision, whichever it is. Lord Wolfson, a former Tory justice minister who has known him (Hermer) for years, said he disagreed with Hermer on many matters, and was concerned by a Guardian report that the Labour government is expected to drop a bid to delay the international criminal court (ICC) reaching a decision on whether to issue an arrest warrant for Benjamin Netanyahu over alleged war crimes in Gaza.But Wolfson said that whatever the positions taken by Hermer “he’ll be acting in good faith. That doesn’t mean that I’ll think he’s right.” He added: “The position of attorney general is where the legal rubber hits the political road, and it takes someone of real principle to discharge the job properly and I’m sure he will.”Hermer will also have to deal with three cases pending at the international court of justice (ICJ) – on Palestine, the right to strike, and state obligations with respect to climate change – in which Sands said the positions adopted by the Sunak government were “dismal” and put Britain in the margins. Sands said he would be looking out for whether there would be changes in position, adding: “It is hard to imagine Richard Hermer, as attorney general, standing before the ICJ and making or defending the previous government’s arguments.”Robertson said the only question mark against Hermer was his lack of criminal experience, which would necessitate greater reliance on the director of public prosecutions (a role previously held by Starmer).Outside work, the new attorney general was variously described as engaging and fun company over a drink and down to earth.Martyn Day, the founder of human rights law firm Leigh Day, has known Hermer for 26 years, having become his “go to barrister” after he instructed him in a case against tobacco companies related to lung cancer.He said Hermer was true to his word about compassion when it came to clients and was a pleasure to spend time with. Day said his friend’s appointment had caused a “massive hole in my diary”, already leading to the cancellation of dinner together and a joint trip to the Test match on Friday but his social life’s loss was the country’s gain“It is the most impressive appointment within the legal world that I’ve seen,” said Day. “He really is a man of integrity. I think we as a nation can thank Keir Starmer for such an innovative decision to bring somebody totally outside politics into what is quite a critical post.”www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jul/11/never-distracted-by-politics-richard-hermers-surprise-appointment-as-attorney-generalEdit: I should have added that in 2021 the ICJ ruled that although Palestine West Bank/Gaza is not a Sovereign State ICJ does have Jurisdiction. It would seem difficult therefore that the reasons for not withdrawing objections is due to the 1993 and 1995 Oslo Accords which predate the ICJ Ruling. Therefore it would have to challenge the ICJ Ruling that it does have Jurisdiction, a very high bar.
|
|
|
Post by oggyoggy on Jul 16, 2024 6:04:37 GMT
To be clear, the tories filed the original government position, and kept it secret because of the election. It only came out when the ICC released papers relating to the case. Labour, once elected, said they were going to withdraw the government’s application. Now it seems they have changed position, presumably after now having taken proper advice. It is all quite odd. The question is about the jurisdiction of the ICC and how it links to the Oslo Accords. It isn’t about whether or not Netanyahu is a genocidal wanker. Perhaps I should have been more fulsome in my response to Paul, the reason I didn't is because there are conflicting reports and quite frankly I'm not sure which to believe The original report that UK was going to withdraw it's objections appeared in the Guardian Article below (extract) At this point, which I should have made clearer, is that I'm content to await a final decision which I believe must be made by 26th July and the rationale for that decision, whichever it is. Lord Wolfson, a former Tory justice minister who has known him (Hermer) for years, said he disagreed with Hermer on many matters, and was concerned by a Guardian report that the Labour government is expected to drop a bid to delay the international criminal court (ICC) reaching a decision on whether to issue an arrest warrant for Benjamin Netanyahu over alleged war crimes in Gaza.But Wolfson said that whatever the positions taken by Hermer “he’ll be acting in good faith. That doesn’t mean that I’ll think he’s right.” He added: “The position of attorney general is where the legal rubber hits the political road, and it takes someone of real principle to discharge the job properly and I’m sure he will.”Hermer will also have to deal with three cases pending at the international court of justice (ICJ) – on Palestine, the right to strike, and state obligations with respect to climate change – in which Sands said the positions adopted by the Sunak government were “dismal” and put Britain in the margins. Sands said he would be looking out for whether there would be changes in position, adding: “It is hard to imagine Richard Hermer, as attorney general, standing before the ICJ and making or defending the previous government’s arguments.”Robertson said the only question mark against Hermer was his lack of criminal experience, which would necessitate greater reliance on the director of public prosecutions (a role previously held by Starmer).Outside work, the new attorney general was variously described as engaging and fun company over a drink and down to earth.Martyn Day, the founder of human rights law firm Leigh Day, has known Hermer for 26 years, having become his “go to barrister” after he instructed him in a case against tobacco companies related to lung cancer.He said Hermer was true to his word about compassion when it came to clients and was a pleasure to spend time with. Day said his friend’s appointment had caused a “massive hole in my diary”, already leading to the cancellation of dinner together and a joint trip to the Test match on Friday but his social life’s loss was the country’s gain“It is the most impressive appointment within the legal world that I’ve seen,” said Day. “He really is a man of integrity. I think we as a nation can thank Keir Starmer for such an innovative decision to bring somebody totally outside politics into what is quite a critical post.”www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jul/11/never-distracted-by-politics-richard-hermers-surprise-appointment-as-attorney-generalEdit: I should have added that in 2021 the ICJ ruled that although Palestine West Bank/Gaza is not a Sovereign State ICJ does have Jurisdiction. It would seem difficult therefore that the reasons for not withdrawing objections is due to the 1993 and 1995 Oslo Accords which predate the ICJ Ruling. Therefore it would have to challenge the ICJ Ruling that it does have Jurisdiction, a very high bar. Yes, I am aware of Hermer and his reputation (interesting they quote Martyn Day in the article as Leigh Day do some great work but they have also been found to have tampered with evidence in cases against British soldiers and torture in Iraq). I did not know about your final paragraph which makes it even more curious a decision if Starmer has now decided to continue with the previous government jurisdiction challenge. As you say, one to keep an eye on.
|
|
|
Post by gawa on Jul 16, 2024 8:18:41 GMT
These lot really have no shame. I swear they either:
A) Think we are all mugs and thick as pig shit. B) Want to be as disliked as the tories to lower expectations.
Two weeks on and they're still trying to play the intimidation card in the aftermath of an assassination attempt on a former president. Absolutely tone death.
The funny thing is when their former leader was being egged in a street it wasn't intimidation. Actually Yvette Coopers husband was having a jolly good laugh about it on TV. And when the same man was having his photograph shot at by the army that was just some lads having banter. And when the man who won the rochdale by election, previously hospitalised by a zionist terrorist, it prompted the prime miniture to addres the nation on the hospitalised mp being a threat...
This is nothing more than an attack on our democracy and its an absolute disgrace to see them try to silence all accountable and criticism and label it as intimidation. They should be utterly ashamed of themselves. They hold the electorate in disdain.
When you win less votes than the unelectable leader maybe that's the time to do some self reflection. Unfortunately these charlatans don't take any responsibility for anything. So out comes the excuses. It's the tories fault, it's Russias, it's corbyns, it's intimidation, it's the Muslims, the bengalis, its liz Truss. Bore off.
|
|
|
Post by flea79 on Jul 16, 2024 8:23:59 GMT
These lot really have no shame. I swear they either: A) Think we are all mugs and thick as pig shit. B) Want to be as disliked as the tories to lower expectations. Two weeks on and they're still trying to play the intimidation card in the aftermath of an assassination attempt on a former president. Absolutely tone death. The funny thing is when their former leader was being egged in a street it wasn't intimidation. Actually Yvette Coopers husband was having a jolly good laugh about it on TV. And when the same man was having his photograph shot at by the army that was just some lads having banter. And when the man who won the rochdale by election, previously hospitalised by a zionist terrorist, it prompted the prime miniture to addres the nation on the hospitalised mp being a threat... This is nothing more than an attack on our democracy and its an absolute disgrace to see them try to silence all accountable and criticism and label it as intimidation. They should be utterly ashamed of themselves. They hold the electorate in disdain. When you win less votes than the unelectable leader maybe that's the time to do some self reflection. Unfortunately these charlatans don't take any responsibility for anything. So out comes the excuses. It's the tories fault, it's Russias, it's corbyns, it's intimidation, it's the Muslims, the bengalis, its liz Truss. Bore off. yeah but Angela Rayner is fit
|
|
|
Post by gawa on Jul 16, 2024 8:50:16 GMT
|
|
|
Post by gawa on Jul 16, 2024 9:18:21 GMT
|
|
|
Post by gawa on Jul 16, 2024 9:31:49 GMT
|
|
|
Post by gawa on Jul 16, 2024 9:40:30 GMT
Less members, less votes, more donations than EVERY other party combined.
Who do they serve?
|
|
|
Post by gawa on Jul 16, 2024 9:55:20 GMT
|
|
|
Post by mickeythemaestro on Jul 16, 2024 10:13:06 GMT
How tolerant of them. You don't agree with everything we demand so you can't come to our street party. And let's face it all churches in their community don't necessarily see eye to eye either. Ah the tolerance...
|
|
|
Post by gawa on Jul 16, 2024 10:32:01 GMT
How tolerant of them. You don't agree with everything we demand so you can't come to our street party. And let's face it all churches in their community don't necessarily see eye to eye either. Ah the tolerance... And good on them for doing it. More organisations and movements should follow suit- hopefully unions next. Whatever your position is on LGBT, like unions, minorities and the working class - many historically have lent labour their support to only be shafted. It's good to see groups making a stand and public statement. I don't think Conservatives being unwelcome at miners strikes was due to the miners being intolerant. When political parties turn their back on large swathes of their support. That same support will turn their back on political parties.
|
|
|
Post by Clayton Wood on Jul 16, 2024 11:17:36 GMT
Vaughan Gething to quit as Welsh first minister and will now discuss a timetable for the election of his successor.
|
|
|
Post by mickeythemaestro on Jul 16, 2024 11:28:41 GMT
How tolerant of them. You don't agree with everything we demand so you can't come to our street party. And let's face it all churches in their community don't necessarily see eye to eye either. Ah the tolerance... And good on them for doing it. More organisations and movements should follow suit- hopefully unions next. Whatever your position is on LGBT, like unions, minorities and the working class - many historically have lent labour their support to only be shafted. It's good to see groups making a stand and public statement. I don't think Conservatives being unwelcome at miners strikes was due to the miners being intolerant. When political parties turn their back on large swathes of their support. That same support will turn their back on political parties. Bad analogy. Most parties are broadly on board with the Lgbt community. The fact that there are areas amongst it all where it creates very serious issues for women for example means it is not something where anyone or any party should just have to roll over and accept. They are being intolerant of other views quite plainly...
|
|
|
Post by thehartshillbadger on Jul 16, 2024 11:31:21 GMT
Bet they’re absolutely devastated
|
|
|
Post by crouchpotato1 on Jul 16, 2024 12:37:37 GMT
|
|
|
Post by gawa on Jul 16, 2024 12:58:55 GMT
And good on them for doing it. More organisations and movements should follow suit- hopefully unions next. Whatever your position is on LGBT, like unions, minorities and the working class - many historically have lent labour their support to only be shafted. It's good to see groups making a stand and public statement. I don't think Conservatives being unwelcome at miners strikes was due to the miners being intolerant. When political parties turn their back on large swathes of their support. That same support will turn their back on political parties. Bad analogy. Most parties are broadly on board with the Lgbt community. The fact that there are areas amongst it all where it creates very serious issues for women for example means it is not something where anyone or any party should just have to roll over and accept. They are being intolerant of other views quite plainly... My stance on trans is probably not aligned with the trans activists as I agree that respect goes both ways and trans women need to respect wishes of regular women too and can't expect everything they want. But with that said. These are the communities and groups which Labour regularly attach themselves to, to appear as the Liberal good guys sticking up for minorities. So I'm personally pleased to see them saying labour politicians aren't welcome. Keir Starmer has made the left unwelcome in Labour so it's about time anyone who considers themselves on the left made labour unwelcome too. Not exactly a policy or area I have a passion for or one which affects how I vote. But labour have a long history with the lgbt community which they've taken from granted. So fair play to those people in my opinion.
|
|
|
Post by salopstick on Jul 16, 2024 13:00:18 GMT
at least sinn fein have the integrity to not sit in the commons or take the salary due to their beliefs (even though i disagree with those beliefs)
|
|
|
Post by gawa on Jul 16, 2024 13:11:19 GMT
at least sinn fein have the integrity to not sit in the commons or take the salary due to their beliefs (even though i disagree with those beliefs) They may not take their personal salaries but they certainly take money from Westminster for their offices and expenses.
|
|
|
Post by salopstick on Jul 16, 2024 14:39:24 GMT
at least sinn fein have the integrity to not sit in the commons or take the salary due to their beliefs (even though i disagree with those beliefs) They may not take their personal salaries but they certainly take money from Westminster for their offices and expenses. As the rules allow They are still acting on behalf of their constituents without sitting in parliament.
|
|
|
Post by wagsastokie on Jul 16, 2024 14:45:52 GMT
Less members, less votes, more donations than EVERY other party combined. Who do they serve? Going to be interesting at least Linking donations to policy I have a feeling when people get digging they’ll be no better than the previous administration It’s only took him just over a week to lose his Welsh first minister over donations A man he’s spent weeks praising
|
|
|
Post by gawa on Jul 16, 2024 14:57:53 GMT
Less members, less votes, more donations than EVERY other party combined. Who do they serve? Going to be interesting at least Linking donations to policy I have a feeling when people get digging they’ll be no better than the previous administration It’s only took him just over a week to lose his Welsh first minister over donations A man he’s spent weeks praising He did say that Wales was the blueprint for labour to be fair...
|
|
|
Post by desman2 on Jul 16, 2024 15:55:48 GMT
How tolerant of them. You don't agree with everything we demand so you can't come to our street party. And let's face it all churches in their community don't necessarily see eye to eye either. Ah the tolerance... And good on them for doing it. More organisations and movements should follow suit- hopefully unions next. Whatever your position is on LGBT, like unions, minorities and the working class - many historically have lent labour their support to only be shafted. It's good to see groups making a stand and public statement. I don't think Conservatives being unwelcome at miners strikes was due to the miners being intolerant. When political parties turn their back on large swathes of their support. That same support will turn their back on political parties. When I was a member of the Labour party it was basically a party that put out policies and ideas for everyone and you made your choice. It them morphed into this party that would identify and then suck up to individual sections of society based on demographic or activism. That's why I left it. It wasn't the same party anymore. The more they keep up this method of getting support the more these sections of society will do their own thing and it will fall like a house of cards. Same with unions. In old Labour the unions were working with them but it seems now they are going to blackmail them with threats of withdrawing money etc unless they do what they want. It's just how I see it.
|
|
|
Post by mrcoke on Jul 16, 2024 16:24:47 GMT
And good on them for doing it. More organisations and movements should follow suit- hopefully unions next. Whatever your position is on LGBT, like unions, minorities and the working class - many historically have lent labour their support to only be shafted. It's good to see groups making a stand and public statement. I don't think Conservatives being unwelcome at miners strikes was due to the miners being intolerant. When political parties turn their back on large swathes of their support. That same support will turn their back on political parties. When I was a member of the Labour party it was basically a party that put out policies and ideas for everyone and you made your choice. It them morphed into this party that would identify and then suck up to individual sections of society based on demographic or activism. That's why I left it. It wasn't the same party anymore. The more they keep up this method of getting support the more these sections of society will do their own thing and it will fall like a house of cards. Same with unions. In old Labour the unions were working with them but it seems now they are going to blackmail them with threats of withdrawing money etc unless they do what they want. It's just how I see it. I have similar feelings to you but different circumstance. I was active in the Liberal Party in the 70s and 80s working against the Tories, notably Thatcher, and the loony left in Labour Party, notably Militant, although I recognised there were genuine caring people in both those parties holding more moderate caring views. I left the Liberals because of their adoption of populist policies and telling lies to get people's votes. I was unaware of the "goings on" of Liberal leaders like Thorpe and Smith so was glad I left and decided never to throw my lot in with a political party again. Every thing that has happened since then has confirmed my views of politicians. They are not to be trusted, particularly on things like coalitions where they are solely concerned with their own interests and not society's. That is why I firmly believe in keeping tight control of politicians. Each must be answerable to the public so I support constituency membership and not get power without being accountable to a section of the public, who have the power to remove any politician like Truss. As is clear from my posts, I am absolutely totally opposed to handing any power to foreign politicians and bureaucrats.
|
|
|
Post by oggyoggy on Jul 16, 2024 16:40:10 GMT
Is Gawa on this thread what Huddy was on the Tory equivalent thread for the last administration?
|
|
|
Post by iancransonsknees on Jul 16, 2024 16:41:51 GMT
These lot really have no shame. I swear they either: A) Think we are all mugs and thick as pig shit. B) Want to be as disliked as the tories to lower expectations. Two weeks on and they're still trying to play the intimidation card in the aftermath of an assassination attempt on a former president. Absolutely tone death. The funny thing is when their former leader was being egged in a street it wasn't intimidation. Actually Yvette Coopers husband was having a jolly good laugh about it on TV. And when the same man was having his photograph shot at by the army that was just some lads having banter. And when the man who won the rochdale by election, previously hospitalised by a zionist terrorist, it prompted the prime miniture to addres the nation on the hospitalised mp being a threat... This is nothing more than an attack on our democracy and its an absolute disgrace to see them try to silence all accountable and criticism and label it as intimidation. They should be utterly ashamed of themselves. They hold the electorate in disdain. When you win less votes than the unelectable leader maybe that's the time to do some self reflection. Unfortunately these charlatans don't take any responsibility for anything. So out comes the excuses. It's the tories fault, it's Russias, it's corbyns, it's intimidation, it's the Muslims, the bengalis, its liz Truss. Bore off. yeah but Angela Rayner is fit
|
|
|
Post by gawa on Jul 17, 2024 7:57:56 GMT
I think the 2 child benefit cap will be lifted today, just have a hunch.
Surely post election labour can see they've got little buy in from the public. Reversing the cap could see them garner alot of support.
Just feel they need to do something big today which wasn't on the manifesto.
Or maybe I'm just being hopelessly optimistic.
|
|
|
Post by cheadlepotter on Jul 17, 2024 8:50:17 GMT
I’m looking forward to what is said about housing. It’s all well and good building plenty of houses, but hopefully there will be something for potential first-time buyers like myself.
|
|
|
Post by skip on Jul 17, 2024 8:59:22 GMT
Less members, less votes, more donations than EVERY other party combined. Who do they serve? The Tories lost millions of pounds in donations, including our local 'hero' Mr Phones 4U (I'm not a fan of his) rather than Labour gained new money in donations. Much like the FPTP system that enabled Labour to win with fewer votes than Corbyn got, 'cos Starmer's success was nationwide votes rather than concentrated into major and tertiary cities. I'd rather Starmer's pragmatism in office than another five years of moaning from the safety of the opposition benches.
|
|
|
Post by skip on Jul 17, 2024 9:02:17 GMT
I’m looking forward to what is said about housing. It’s all well and good building plenty of houses, but hopefully there will be something for potential first-time buyers like myself. And the infrastructure to go with it; medical care centres, school places, and a rethink of the purpose, function and value of town centres. Good luck on the house front btw.
|
|
|
Post by gawa on Jul 17, 2024 9:20:34 GMT
Less members, less votes, more donations than EVERY other party combined. Who do they serve? The Tories lost millions of pounds in donations, including our local 'hero' Mr Phones 4U (I'm not a fan of his) rather than Labour gained new money in donations. Much like the FPTP system that enabled Labour to win with fewer votes than Corbyn got, 'cos Starmer's success was nationwide votes rather than concentrated into major and tertiary cities. I'd rather Starmer's pragmatism in office than another five years of moaning from the safety of the opposition benches. Pretty sure Mr fones4u is now a labour donor.
|
|