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Post by oggyoggy on Dec 4, 2023 17:34:52 GMT
Nationalised green energy company, going after covid fraud, not binning a levels, binning Rwanda policy, preventative nhs, simplifying tax code, Lords reform, moving away from culture war issues, higher windfall taxes on energy companies, reducing incentives for businesses to employ from abroad rather than from here. There are a few for you. Many more will appear in the manifesto. Is the Rwanda policy not being scrapped whoever is in charge due to legal issues? I don't see any progress in the last 12 months in regards to it. Has Clevery not just made an announcement in regards to reducing incentives for businesses to employ abroad? The scrapping of A levels is just a change to Advanced British Standards were pupils will do more subjects and A levels and T levels will come under same scheme. Why is starmer deciding not to scrap them a vote winner? Despite party members voting for it. Did the shadow business secretary not say at the Labour conference that they won't be nationalising energy - www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67056005Windfall tax on energy companies. Has he mentioned this in the last 12 months? All went very quiet there. Tacking covid fraud. Let's see if actions speak louder than words when push comes to shove. House of Lords reforms. Pretty sure he said he was going to scrap that but then u turned. What is a preventative NHS? Aside from being similar to a tory three word slogan. Words aside what's the plan? Or is that the plan "a preventative NHS" with no actual plan, just a slogan. What's the big pledge to move away from culture war issues? Is immigration not one of those, something which starmer has been getting involved in? Same for trans and self identity. I don't see how he's moved or moving away. What is the simplyfing tax code going to do for the working man? Why not raise tax for the highest earners giving inequality. Whys he saying he's not going to do that? If that's the best he can come up with then you can see why it's not inspiring in the slightest. We've a huge issue with inequality in this country and none of the above suggests there's any plan to tackle it. You have just demonstrated exactly why it is best Starmer reveals very little before the next election. Cleverly (if you are right - I have not seen the news today) has copied the Labour policy. Do you see why announcing everything now is not a good idea? A preventative health service is a focus on preventing disease rather than waiting until you are disease ridden before doing anything. It is a massive culture shift. It means being checked more regularly to prevent disease before it is too late. Why is it that medical students on the continent are always shown British cancer patients as examples? Because we are good at detecting disease but often after it is too late. The preventative model transforms that. I am amazed you are not supportive of this. Simplify the tax code means removing loop holes exploited by the rich. I am amazed you are not supportive of this. Why should he simply repeat endlessly what he has already said? Judge him by his manifesto. Nationalising energy is far too expensive. It would be better to regulate profits via the windfall tax at the same time as pumping investment into a nationalised green energy company, thus reducing share process of the rival fossil fuel firms. Then nationalising could be an option, or alternatively let everyone choose the cheaper green energy (if that is achievable). I am not sure what you want from the opposition? Other than another defeat at the next election perhaps? I’m not a particularly big fan of Starmer. But certainly the left wing of the Labour party are desperate to stop labour getting into power. The left of labour would prefer more years of tory rule it seems, rather than having a better but by no means perfect Labour government. It is ridiculous.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Dec 4, 2023 18:03:11 GMT
Is the Rwanda policy not being scrapped whoever is in charge due to legal issues? I don't see any progress in the last 12 months in regards to it. Has Clevery not just made an announcement in regards to reducing incentives for businesses to employ abroad? The scrapping of A levels is just a change to Advanced British Standards were pupils will do more subjects and A levels and T levels will come under same scheme. Why is starmer deciding not to scrap them a vote winner? Despite party members voting for it. Did the shadow business secretary not say at the Labour conference that they won't be nationalising energy - www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67056005Windfall tax on energy companies. Has he mentioned this in the last 12 months? All went very quiet there. Tacking covid fraud. Let's see if actions speak louder than words when push comes to shove. House of Lords reforms. Pretty sure he said he was going to scrap that but then u turned. What is a preventative NHS? Aside from being similar to a tory three word slogan. Words aside what's the plan? Or is that the plan "a preventative NHS" with no actual plan, just a slogan. What's the big pledge to move away from culture war issues? Is immigration not one of those, something which starmer has been getting involved in? Same for trans and self identity. I don't see how he's moved or moving away. What is the simplyfing tax code going to do for the working man? Why not raise tax for the highest earners giving inequality. Whys he saying he's not going to do that? If that's the best he can come up with then you can see why it's not inspiring in the slightest. We've a huge issue with inequality in this country and none of the above suggests there's any plan to tackle it. You have just demonstrated exactly why it is best Starmer reveals very little before the next election. Cleverly (if you are right - I have not seen the news today) has copied the Labour policy. Do you see why announcing everything now is not a good idea? A preventative health service is a focus on preventing disease rather than waiting until you are disease ridden before doing anything. It is a massive culture shift. It means being checked more regularly to prevent disease before it is too late. Why is it that medical students on the continent are always shown British cancer patients as examples? Because we are good at detecting disease but often after it is too late. The preventative model transforms that. I am amazed you are not supportive of this. Simplify the tax code means removing loop holes exploited by the rich. I am amazed you are not supportive of this. Why should he simply repeat endlessly what he has already said? Judge him by his manifesto. Nationalising energy is far too expensive. It would be better to regulate profits via the windfall tax at the same time as pumping investment into a nationalised green energy company, thus reducing share process of the rival fossil fuel firms. Then nationalising could be an option, or alternatively let everyone choose the cheaper green energy (if that is achievable). I am not sure what you want from the opposition? Other than another defeat at the next election perhaps? I’m not a particularly big fan of Starmer. But certainly the left wing of the Labour party are desperate to stop labour getting into power. The left of labour would prefer more years of tory rule it seems, rather than having a better but by no means perfect Labour government. It is ridiculous. It didn't stop the likes of Smeeth, Hodge, Austin, Mann and many more right wingers in collusion with the Tory press from sabotaging Labour's chances in 2019. So I'll take no lectures thank you. You reap what you sow.
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Post by oggyoggy on Dec 4, 2023 18:23:25 GMT
You have just demonstrated exactly why it is best Starmer reveals very little before the next election. Cleverly (if you are right - I have not seen the news today) has copied the Labour policy. Do you see why announcing everything now is not a good idea? A preventative health service is a focus on preventing disease rather than waiting until you are disease ridden before doing anything. It is a massive culture shift. It means being checked more regularly to prevent disease before it is too late. Why is it that medical students on the continent are always shown British cancer patients as examples? Because we are good at detecting disease but often after it is too late. The preventative model transforms that. I am amazed you are not supportive of this. Simplify the tax code means removing loop holes exploited by the rich. I am amazed you are not supportive of this. Why should he simply repeat endlessly what he has already said? Judge him by his manifesto. Nationalising energy is far too expensive. It would be better to regulate profits via the windfall tax at the same time as pumping investment into a nationalised green energy company, thus reducing share process of the rival fossil fuel firms. Then nationalising could be an option, or alternatively let everyone choose the cheaper green energy (if that is achievable). I am not sure what you want from the opposition? Other than another defeat at the next election perhaps? I’m not a particularly big fan of Starmer. But certainly the left wing of the Labour party are desperate to stop labour getting into power. The left of labour would prefer more years of tory rule it seems, rather than having a better but by no means perfect Labour government. It is ridiculous. It didn't stop the likes of Smeeth, Hodge, Austin, Mann and many more right wingers in collusion with the Tory press from sabotaging Labour's chances in 2019. So I'll take no lectures thank you. You reap what you sow. And this is exactly why the tories keep winning elections.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Dec 4, 2023 18:25:25 GMT
It didn't stop the likes of Smeeth, Hodge, Austin, Mann and many more right wingers in collusion with the Tory press from sabotaging Labour's chances in 2019. So I'll take no lectures thank you. You reap what you sow. And this is exactly why the tories keep winning elections. Because they are in the pockets of the multinationals and the elite, yes.
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Post by OldStokie on Dec 4, 2023 20:16:27 GMT
As much as I despise Starmer, he is right to concentrate on growth. He can start by renegotiating the Brexit deal to make it more favourable to small exporters who have now abandoned exporting to the EU because of red tape. Then he should change the investment taxation policy the Tories brought in to give tax breaks for investment to those companies who reinvest their profits and don't turn over a million quid a year. That would boost small businesses instead of only large and medium sized companies.
As far as as what he said about Thatcher, unwisely, just as Andystokie pointed out, he added the words "entrepreneurial spirit". He could have done that and he would have been clear of criticism by those who read behind the headlines. She did change the UK in a massive way. In actual fact she is responsible for the awful mess we're in today by devastating a society that has rewarded the rich and left behind the ordinary people of this country which, although not perfect, was cohesive and working.
I'll still be voting Labour despite all that's going on and that's because we cannot tolerate another term of this current lot in the Tory Party. Although I'm left of centre, rather than Starmer, I might even have voted Tory had it been led by Rory Stewart (had he still been in office and not booted out by the right)), the only Tory who stood in the 2019 leadership election who, in my opinion, was the only candidate with principles and sound judgement. For me, he was head and shoulders above the rabble that battled it out.
OS.
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Post by gawa on Dec 4, 2023 20:49:56 GMT
Did I say I speak for everyone? Well I don't see many posters on here who voted tory last election saying they're changing their vote due to starmers policies. Those who are, are changing because of the tory sleaze. No, but you did say “ If Starmer gets elected its not due to anything he's done or said”. I think lots of people will vote for Starmer for the things he has said and done. He may be uninspiring and not very transformative, but he strikes me as capable of running an administration not drenched in sleaze and corruption. Others will agree and therefore, as you say, vote for him because he represents a likely change from Tory sleaze. He must have said or done something for that conclusion to be reached. And I think you're wrong. So you think the Tory corruption and sleaze being exposed is due to Kier Starmer?
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Post by oggyoggy on Dec 4, 2023 21:08:50 GMT
No, but you did say “ If Starmer gets elected its not due to anything he's done or said”. I think lots of people will vote for Starmer for the things he has said and done. He may be uninspiring and not very transformative, but he strikes me as capable of running an administration not drenched in sleaze and corruption. Others will agree and therefore, as you say, vote for him because he represents a likely change from Tory sleaze. He must have said or done something for that conclusion to be reached. And I think you're wrong. So you think the Tory corruption and sleaze being exposed is due to Kier Starmer? No, i think there will be less corruption and sleaze under his leadership. I hold that opinion because of what Starmer has said and done (albeit in opposition you can’t do anything so it is more about what he has done in his past - be director of public prosecutions)
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Post by gawa on Dec 4, 2023 21:11:54 GMT
Is the Rwanda policy not being scrapped whoever is in charge due to legal issues? I don't see any progress in the last 12 months in regards to it. Has Clevery not just made an announcement in regards to reducing incentives for businesses to employ abroad? The scrapping of A levels is just a change to Advanced British Standards were pupils will do more subjects and A levels and T levels will come under same scheme. Why is starmer deciding not to scrap them a vote winner? Despite party members voting for it. Did the shadow business secretary not say at the Labour conference that they won't be nationalising energy - www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67056005Windfall tax on energy companies. Has he mentioned this in the last 12 months? All went very quiet there. Tacking covid fraud. Let's see if actions speak louder than words when push comes to shove. House of Lords reforms. Pretty sure he said he was going to scrap that but then u turned. What is a preventative NHS? Aside from being similar to a tory three word slogan. Words aside what's the plan? Or is that the plan "a preventative NHS" with no actual plan, just a slogan. What's the big pledge to move away from culture war issues? Is immigration not one of those, something which starmer has been getting involved in? Same for trans and self identity. I don't see how he's moved or moving away. What is the simplyfing tax code going to do for the working man? Why not raise tax for the highest earners giving inequality. Whys he saying he's not going to do that? If that's the best he can come up with then you can see why it's not inspiring in the slightest. We've a huge issue with inequality in this country and none of the above suggests there's any plan to tackle it. You have just demonstrated exactly why it is best Starmer reveals very little before the next election. Cleverly (if you are right - I have not seen the news today) has copied the Labour policy. Do you see why announcing everything now is not a good idea? A preventative health service is a focus on preventing disease rather than waiting until you are disease ridden before doing anything. It is a massive culture shift. It means being checked more regularly to prevent disease before it is too late. Why is it that medical students on the continent are always shown British cancer patients as examples? Because we are good at detecting disease but often after it is too late. The preventative model transforms that. I am amazed you are not supportive of this. Simplify the tax code means removing loop holes exploited by the rich. I am amazed you are not supportive of this. Why should he simply repeat endlessly what he has already said? Judge him by his manifesto. Nationalising energy is far too expensive. It would be better to regulate profits via the windfall tax at the same time as pumping investment into a nationalised green energy company, thus reducing share process of the rival fossil fuel firms. Then nationalising could be an option, or alternatively let everyone choose the cheaper green energy (if that is achievable). I am not sure what you want from the opposition? Other than another defeat at the next election perhaps? I’m not a particularly big fan of Starmer. But certainly the left wing of the Labour party are desperate to stop labour getting into power. The left of labour would prefer more years of tory rule it seems, rather than having a better but by no means perfect Labour government. It is ridiculous. He wouldn't need to endlessly repeat stuff if he didn't keep u turning and changing his mind. One minute we are abolishing the house of Lords, the next we aren't. One minuting were abolishing the charity status applied to private schools, the next we aren't. One minute we are nationalising energy, rail, mail and water. The next we aren't. One minute tuition fees are being abolished, the next they aren't. If he didn't delete his 10 pledges from his website then he wouldn't need to keep repeating. But after deleting those this week it seems the u turns just keep continuing. Your last paragraph is ironic considering we had alot of momentum and people getting behind the last leader before Kier Starmer and his right wing cronies infiltrated the Labour Party and worked against the leadership to tarnish the chances of the party in the build up to the last GE. Starmers more interested in trying to win over and appease billionaires while taking the people and voters of this country for granted. He had little interest in supporting the party in the last election and seemingly, along with the Labour right, were quite happy for them to lose the election. I don't like him and I don't trust him and he's done very little to convince me otherwise. Actually he's done the opposite, as each week passes he does or says something which makes me dislike him more. He's went the opposite direction. I will continue to criticise and praise Starmer were appropriate and hold him to the standards thar I personally expect (others have different standards which I respect). Being a labour leader isn't enough for me. Being better than a tory isn't enough for me. I expect better and I want to be inspired. I don't want to vote for the lesser of two evils. I want to vote for someone who cares about the many not the few. Trying to get on side with billionaires and focusing on winning them over pisses me off. He's taken the left wing and working class for granted. And simply voting him so we don't get a tory tells him that his policies are what we want and its not enough. So if that means torys got in power then so be it. Its not a football team I follow blindly it's more than that. And if my football team has forgotten it's supporters and is more interested in impressing the elite then its lost its heart and soul. And this didn't all start from a silly shitty article about Thatcher. This is months upon months of things.
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Post by oggyoggy on Dec 4, 2023 21:23:13 GMT
You have just demonstrated exactly why it is best Starmer reveals very little before the next election. Cleverly (if you are right - I have not seen the news today) has copied the Labour policy. Do you see why announcing everything now is not a good idea? A preventative health service is a focus on preventing disease rather than waiting until you are disease ridden before doing anything. It is a massive culture shift. It means being checked more regularly to prevent disease before it is too late. Why is it that medical students on the continent are always shown British cancer patients as examples? Because we are good at detecting disease but often after it is too late. The preventative model transforms that. I am amazed you are not supportive of this. Simplify the tax code means removing loop holes exploited by the rich. I am amazed you are not supportive of this. Why should he simply repeat endlessly what he has already said? Judge him by his manifesto. Nationalising energy is far too expensive. It would be better to regulate profits via the windfall tax at the same time as pumping investment into a nationalised green energy company, thus reducing share process of the rival fossil fuel firms. Then nationalising could be an option, or alternatively let everyone choose the cheaper green energy (if that is achievable). I am not sure what you want from the opposition? Other than another defeat at the next election perhaps? I’m not a particularly big fan of Starmer. But certainly the left wing of the Labour party are desperate to stop labour getting into power. The left of labour would prefer more years of tory rule it seems, rather than having a better but by no means perfect Labour government. It is ridiculous. He wouldn't need to endlessly repeat stuff if he didn't keep u turning and changing his mind. One minute we are abolishing the house of Lords, the next we aren't. One minuting were abolishing the charity status applied to private schools, the next we aren't. One minute we are nationalising energy, rail, mail and water. The next we aren't. One minute tuition fees are being abolished, the next they aren't. If he didn't delete his 10 pledges from his website then he wouldn't need to keep repeating. But after deleting those this week it seems the u turns just keep continuing. Your last paragraph is ironic considering we had alot of momentum and people getting behind the last leader before Kier Starmer and his right wing cronies infiltrated the Labour Party and worked against the leadership to tarnish the chances of the party in the build up to the last GE. Starmers more interested in trying to win over and appease billionaires while taking the people and voters of this country for granted. He had little interest in supporting the party in the last election and seemingly, along with the Labour right, were quite happy for them to lose the election. I don't like him and I don't trust him and he's done very little to convince me otherwise. Actually he's done the opposite, as each week passes he does or says something which makes me dislike him more. He's went the opposite direction. I will continue to criticise and praise Starmer were appropriate and hold him to the standards thar I personally expect (others have different standards which I respect). Being a labour leader isn't enough for me. Being better than a tory isn't enough for me. I expect better and I want to be inspired. I don't want to vote for the lesser of two evils. I want to vote for someone who cares about the many not the few. Trying to get on side with billionaires and focusing on winning them over pisses me off. He's taken the left wing and working class for granted. And simply voting him so we don't get a tory tells him that his policies are what we want and its not enough. So if that means torys got in power then so be it. Its not a football team I follow blindly it's more than that. And if my football team has forgotten it's supporters and is more interested in impressing the elite then its lost its heart and soul. And this didn't all start from a silly shitty article about Thatcher. This is months upon months of things. HOL reform has been pushed back to second term because of other priorities He was never abolishing the charitable status of private schools. He was putting vat on fees. He was never nationalising everything in a first term. It would be impossible. I don’t remember him pledging to abolish tuition fees recently. Since his leadership pledges we have had covid hammer the economy. He needs to prioritise. He needs to adapt to the situation he hopefully inherits. To do otherwise would be idiotic. Corbyn failed to win at elections. I liked some of his domestic agenda. But he didn’t know how to win. If you can’t win then you are irrelevant: lib dems (sadly). I get he has masses to do to win round lots of the left of labour. But he has to get into power first. I cannot stand this ridiculous nonsense about people hammering Starmer when he hasn’t yet had a chance to do anything, let alone produce a manifesto. In our system he has to be the least worst option of two. It is an abysmal and undemocratic system. But that what is required to get elected. Corbyn was deemed worse than Johnson (utter madness in my view). But part of that was Corbyn couldn’t do what Blair and Starmer can do which is woo the right people. You have to in a FPTP system and with our foreign owned right wong press.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Dec 4, 2023 21:40:41 GMT
I love how you lefties are basically distancing yourselves from the Labour leader before he’s even got the job. Just so you can all say you never wanted him anyway. Textbook
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Post by wagsastokie on Dec 4, 2023 22:09:18 GMT
He wouldn't need to endlessly repeat stuff if he didn't keep u turning and changing his mind. One minute we are abolishing the house of Lords, the next we aren't. One minuting were abolishing the charity status applied to private schools, the next we aren't. One minute we are nationalising energy, rail, mail and water. The next we aren't. One minute tuition fees are being abolished, the next they aren't. If he didn't delete his 10 pledges from his website then he wouldn't need to keep repeating. But after deleting those this week it seems the u turns just keep continuing. Your last paragraph is ironic considering we had alot of momentum and people getting behind the last leader before Kier Starmer and his right wing cronies infiltrated the Labour Party and worked against the leadership to tarnish the chances of the party in the build up to the last GE. Starmers more interested in trying to win over and appease billionaires while taking the people and voters of this country for granted. He had little interest in supporting the party in the last election and seemingly, along with the Labour right, were quite happy for them to lose the election. I don't like him and I don't trust him and he's done very little to convince me otherwise. Actually he's done the opposite, as each week passes he does or says something which makes me dislike him more. He's went the opposite direction. I will continue to criticise and praise Starmer were appropriate and hold him to the standards thar I personally expect (others have different standards which I respect). Being a labour leader isn't enough for me. Being better than a tory isn't enough for me. I expect better and I want to be inspired. I don't want to vote for the lesser of two evils. I want to vote for someone who cares about the many not the few. Trying to get on side with billionaires and focusing on winning them over pisses me off. He's taken the left wing and working class for granted. And simply voting him so we don't get a tory tells him that his policies are what we want and its not enough. So if that means torys got in power then so be it. Its not a football team I follow blindly it's more than that. And if my football team has forgotten it's supporters and is more interested in impressing the elite then its lost its heart and soul. And this didn't all start from a silly shitty article about Thatcher. This is months upon months of things. HOL reform has been pushed back to second term because of other priorities He was never abolishing the charitable status of private schools. He was putting vat on fees. He was never nationalising everything in a first term. It would be impossible. I don’t remember him pledging to abolish tuition fees recently. Since his leadership pledges we have had covid hammer the economy. He needs to prioritise. He needs to adapt to the situation he hopefully inherits. To do otherwise would be idiotic. Corbyn failed to win at elections. I liked some of his domestic agenda. But he didn’t know how to win. If you can’t win then you are irrelevant: lib dems (sadly). I get he has masses to do to win round lots of the left of labour. But he has to get into power first. I cannot stand this ridiculous nonsense about people hammering Starmer when he hasn’t yet had a chance to do anything, let alone produce a manifesto. In our system he has to be the least worst option of two. It is an abysmal and undemocratic system. But that what is required to get elected. Corbyn was deemed worse than Johnson (utter madness in my view). But part of that was Corbyn couldn’t do what Blair and Starmer can do which is woo the right people. You have to in a FPTP system and with our foreign owned right wong press. Slightly better system Then one that allows a Islamophobic racist to hold the Most seats and then spend months upon moths of horse trading to secure a actual government Surely if people bother to vote they should at least be rewarded with a government within days
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Post by oggyoggy on Dec 4, 2023 22:35:14 GMT
HOL reform has been pushed back to second term because of other priorities He was never abolishing the charitable status of private schools. He was putting vat on fees. He was never nationalising everything in a first term. It would be impossible. I don’t remember him pledging to abolish tuition fees recently. Since his leadership pledges we have had covid hammer the economy. He needs to prioritise. He needs to adapt to the situation he hopefully inherits. To do otherwise would be idiotic. Corbyn failed to win at elections. I liked some of his domestic agenda. But he didn’t know how to win. If you can’t win then you are irrelevant: lib dems (sadly). I get he has masses to do to win round lots of the left of labour. But he has to get into power first. I cannot stand this ridiculous nonsense about people hammering Starmer when he hasn’t yet had a chance to do anything, let alone produce a manifesto. In our system he has to be the least worst option of two. It is an abysmal and undemocratic system. But that what is required to get elected. Corbyn was deemed worse than Johnson (utter madness in my view). But part of that was Corbyn couldn’t do what Blair and Starmer can do which is woo the right people. You have to in a FPTP system and with our foreign owned right wong press. Slightly better system Then one that allows a Islamophobic racist to hold the Most seats and then spend months upon moths of horse trading to secure a actual government Surely if people bother to vote they should at least be rewarded with a government within days Or multiple unelected governments within each term like here? 25% of the electorate gets you a majority here.
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Post by chad on Dec 4, 2023 22:56:12 GMT
And this is exactly why the tories keep winning elections. Because they are in the pockets of the multinationals and the elite, yes. Come on. The Tories didn’t really win that election. Labour threw it away because they had a man in charge who was detested by the majority of the British public ( yes I know he was destroyed by the horrible British press blah blah blah ) They’ll win the next election because the man in charge is a more moderate left of centre politician and more acceptable to the average voter. As was Blair. And as wasn’t Michael Foot
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Dec 5, 2023 6:27:52 GMT
Because they are in the pockets of the multinationals and the elite, yes. Come on. The Tories didn’t really win that election. Labour threw it away because they had a man in charge who was detested by the majority of the British public ( yes I know he was destroyed by the horrible British press blah blah blah ) They’ll win the next election because the man in charge is a more moderate left of centre politician and more acceptable to the average voter. As was Blair. And as wasn’t Michael Foot The close result in 2017 suggested otherwise.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Dec 5, 2023 11:40:25 GMT
Tight bastard won't even buy his sister a pub lunch In trying to come across as a man of the people why does he make his family sound like a bunch of Dickensian peasants?
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Post by chad on Dec 5, 2023 12:01:14 GMT
Come on. The Tories didn’t really win that election. Labour threw it away because they had a man in charge who was detested by the majority of the British public ( yes I know he was destroyed by the horrible British press blah blah blah ) They’ll win the next election because the man in charge is a more moderate left of centre politician and more acceptable to the average voter. As was Blair. And as wasn’t Michael Foot The close result in 2017 suggested otherwise. Believe what you want. Politicians like Corbyn and Foot will never get elected in this country Starmer will. I actually think he could be ok if he keeps control of his left wingers
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Post by adri2008 on Dec 5, 2023 12:42:09 GMT
Starmer's strategy is sensible - all he has to do is look like a safe pair of hands and he'll be the next PM. He's similar in style to Sunak in many ways (a technocrat), just minus the baggage that all governments gather over time. It's not hard to see it quickly derailing though when his supporters realise that not a lot is going to actually change in the short/medium term. I think he needs to start selling a long term vision for the country if he's going to keep the public on side.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Dec 5, 2023 13:02:59 GMT
The close result in 2017 suggested otherwise. Believe what you want. Politicians like Corbyn and Foot will never get elected in this country Starmer will. I actually think he could be ok if he keeps control of his left wingers Shouldn't be difficult as there are none left.
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Post by gawa on Dec 5, 2023 13:12:42 GMT
The close result in 2017 suggested otherwise. Believe what you want. Politicians like Corbyn and Foot will never get elected in this country Starmer will. I actually think he could be ok if he keeps control of his left wingers In which sense?
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Post by andystokey on Dec 5, 2023 13:14:36 GMT
Believe what you want. Politicians like Corbyn and Foot will never get elected in this country Starmer will. I actually think he could be ok if he keeps control of his left wingers Shouldn't be difficult as there are none left. Dunno, you get called a left winger if you don't like seeing human shit in a river or want your bins emptied these days.
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Post by gawa on Dec 5, 2023 13:28:02 GMT
Id like to know what these "different policies" are. binning Rwanda policy Why can't the shadow home Secretary simply say she's going to scrap the scheme and condemn the language used?
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Post by oggyoggy on Dec 5, 2023 13:35:06 GMT
Why can't the shadow home Secretary simply say she's going to scrap the scheme and condemn the language used? Because she wants Labour to win the election that is coming.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Dec 5, 2023 13:59:19 GMT
Why can't the shadow home Secretary simply say she's going to scrap the scheme and condemn the language used? It's called the abandonment of principles...she's not had any for quite some time now.
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Post by gawa on Dec 5, 2023 14:11:25 GMT
Why can't the shadow home Secretary simply say she's going to scrap the scheme and condemn the language used? It's called the abandonment of principles...she's not had any for quite some time now. All you have to do is follow the money, just like we do with tories. 700k donated to labour in 2018, over 12 million donated this year. Loads of donations to the shadow cabinet imparticular. That's why we have the U turns. Representing their pay masters rather than the electorate. www.opendemocracy.net/en/labour-party-big-business-keir-starmer-lobbying-donations-ditch-progressive-policies/
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Dec 5, 2023 14:27:12 GMT
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Post by chad on Dec 5, 2023 15:35:18 GMT
Believe what you want. Politicians like Corbyn and Foot will never get elected in this country Starmer will. I actually think he could be ok if he keeps control of his left wingers In which sense? In the sense of not letting groups like momentum get control maybe
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Post by prestwichpotter on Dec 5, 2023 16:09:42 GMT
In the sense of not letting groups like momentum get control maybe Momentum are a non-entity. A completely pointless faction of the Labour Party, Starmer can do whatever and they will just put out an angry tweet..........
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Post by phileetin on Dec 6, 2023 10:59:15 GMT
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Post by gawa on Dec 6, 2023 12:44:44 GMT
I don't like Starmer at all, as demonstrated in this thread. But you need to wake up Phil. Clutching at straws here. Whether you like it or not. Net migration was 200k per year under Labour. Its not 750k. A 550k increase. That isn't due to Kier Starmer, lefty lawyers, snowflakes, tofu eaters or the EU. That my friend is down to your beloved conservative party. It may hurt and upset you that this is down to the party you've been voting for who said at every election they'd get the numbers down. The party which sold you brexit as the solution to end free movement of people and reduce brexit. But the unfortunate truth is that they are the ones responsible and accountable. And they lied to you and you believed it. Don't get me wrong Labour and especially Starmer tell plenty of lies too. I'm not taking sides here, I'm starmers biggest critic on this forum. And immigration also increased by 150k a year under the last Labour government. But you need to stop grasping at straws trying to find someone else to blame for all the problems the party you support have created. Because unfortunately these problems are solely down to them and that's the reality. I'm not trying to be smarky or look down my nose here either. I'm just stating the hard facts that the Tory faithful don't like to hear. As they say, actions speak louder than words. And the tories are great at pushing out their anti immigration rhetoric. But you should judge them on what they do rather than what they say. Because the last 13 years is what we call "gaslighting" where I'm from.
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Post by gawa on Dec 7, 2023 20:13:45 GMT
Blood on his hands.
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