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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 16, 2023 7:50:17 GMT
Yes, and it was a much, much worse day for the right. The flagship policy of the tory government for the last few years utterly failed. The tories are left too. An unlawful policy trying to deport asylum seekers is left wing? What in your mind is right wing then!?
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Post by satoshi on Nov 16, 2023 7:51:14 GMT
An unlawful policy trying to deport asylum seekers is left wing? What in your mind is right wing then!? Not wearing a poppy.
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Post by elystokie on Nov 16, 2023 7:52:33 GMT
Ah well, I suppose the government have all day today to make it a good one, I'm sure they'll manage, they do most days. Cry harder mate. Christ. Just take it like a man. Not disputing it then? Thought not 😂
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Post by satoshi on Nov 16, 2023 7:55:19 GMT
Cry harder mate. Christ. Just take it like a man. Not disputing it then? Thought not 😂 Your argument was I know I am but what are you? Not disputing that mate.
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Post by elystokie on Nov 16, 2023 7:57:56 GMT
Not disputing it then? Thought not 😂 Your argument was I know I am but what are you? Not disputing that mate. My argument was that this government are beyond parody. If course you can't dispute it, only the mentally deranged would attempt to.
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 16, 2023 8:35:12 GMT
An unlawful policy trying to deport asylum seekers is left wing? What in your mind is right wing then!? Not wearing a poppy. No, you never upset a rightwing gobshite by being unpleasant to foreigners.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Nov 16, 2023 8:37:36 GMT
Terrible day for the left You're really going to lose it when you find out what happened to the right.
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Post by salopstick on Nov 16, 2023 9:27:48 GMT
Or more apt, a conscience vote. A vote to say Israel will cease firing and Hamas to continue their evil work. A vote that Israel and Hamas couldn’t care less about. It is all symbolic nonsense. We have no influence whatsoever. So why don’t our elected MPs focus on issues that impact us. Like the cost of living crisis. Or the housing reform bill. Instead he does stuff that may cost him an election
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Post by phileetin on Nov 16, 2023 9:29:25 GMT
hopefully
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Post by dutchstokie on Nov 16, 2023 10:27:15 GMT
Labour are morons. Just flat out morons. The Conservative Party are crumbling, so what does Labour decide to do? Fall to pieces at the same time to help them out 😂 They are such a pathetically weak and inept opposition. Starmer could have easily avoided this by instructing a free vote rather than a three line whip. Idiotic decision. Question - what does a three line whip mean...?
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Nov 16, 2023 10:50:45 GMT
Starmer could have easily avoided this by instructing a free vote rather than a three line whip. Idiotic decision. Question - what does a three line whip mean...? All party members are compelled to show up and vote as decided by the leader.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Nov 16, 2023 10:53:45 GMT
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Post by adri2008 on Nov 16, 2023 10:54:28 GMT
Never liked the idea of a whip - surely it should be down to selling a policy to your MPs rather than coercing them into it
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Post by gawa on Nov 16, 2023 10:56:14 GMT
2015? Looks much older
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Post by thisisouryear on Nov 16, 2023 17:16:52 GMT
Or more apt, a conscience vote. A vote to say Israel will cease firing and Hamas to continue their evil work. A vote that Israel and Hamas couldn’t care less about. It is all symbolic nonsense. We have no influence whatsoever. So why don’t our elected MPs focus on issues that impact us. Like the cost of living crisis. Or the housing reform bill. Our influence is being an ally. Our experience in wars is second to none.
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 16, 2023 17:26:23 GMT
A vote to say Israel will cease firing and Hamas to continue their evil work. A vote that Israel and Hamas couldn’t care less about. It is all symbolic nonsense. We have no influence whatsoever. So why don’t our elected MPs focus on issues that impact us. Like the cost of living crisis. Or the housing reform bill. Our influence is being an ally. Our experience in wars is second to none. The amendment to the King’s Speech was never going to pass. Our government’s vote at the UN on the issue was far more important and influential. Yesterday was utterly irrelevant to the war.
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Post by Rick Grimes on Nov 16, 2023 17:30:14 GMT
I don’t get the point of this.
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Post by wagsastokie on Nov 16, 2023 17:37:49 GMT
I don’t get the point of this. I think the point is the unprincipled charlatan will say or stand in front of whatever he feels will get him elected
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 16, 2023 17:47:34 GMT
Never liked the idea of a whip - surely it should be down to selling a policy to your MPs rather than coercing them into it One of the major problems with our two party, fptp system. No room for honest debate or the truth, the main issue is " us versus them", certainly no room for consensus on an issue, such as " There should be an immediate ceasefire in Gaza" even though imo, if they are honest , a majority of Mps in each major party believe that, as do the vast majority of the public. Instead we go down a road no one believe in and is inhumane. The system is wrong.....hence we keep getting what few really want.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2023 17:50:06 GMT
I don’t get the point of this. I think the point is the unprincipled charlatan will say or stand in front of whatever he feels will get him elected At the same time, people are allowed to change their minds. If they didn’t, what’s the point of talking to someone who doesn’t flat out agree with every word you say?
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Post by Rick Grimes on Nov 16, 2023 17:51:19 GMT
I don’t get the point of this. I think the point is the unprincipled charlatan will say or stand in front of whatever he feels will get him elected I think the events of Oct 7th has influenced his current position though so I don’t think this is an own of any sort. Israel going after Hamas is morally justifiable, even though I think the civilian death toll is hugely counter productive.
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 16, 2023 17:57:09 GMT
I don’t get the point of this. I think the point is the unprincipled charlatan will say or stand in front of whatever he feels will get him elected Sorry, are you trying to equate standing in front of a banner opposing Israel from playing football with being for a ceasefire in the current war rather than humanitarian pauses? And that Starmer has somehow forgotten his principles of standing in front of a poster about kicking Israel out of FIFA because he would prefer humanitarian pauses to war rather than a ceasefire? You are really clutching at straws
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Post by thisisouryear on Nov 16, 2023 17:58:29 GMT
Our influence is being an ally. Our experience in wars is second to none. The amendment to the King’s Speech was never going to pass. Our government’s vote at the UN on the issue was far more important and influential. Yesterday was utterly irrelevant to the war. It was the SNP who wanted the vote. Many people in this country will look at it as Jewish Vs Muslim vote it's just how it is. There will be Muslims and Jews who want a ceasefire but that feels like a minority as they are given very little voice by the media. Our politicians are meant to represent everyone in this country of all backgrounds, it's the price of multiculturalism. Our main party's should be completely impartial and be pushing for peace not war and they aren't. There must be many Muslims in this country questioning whether our country has their backs at all.
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Post by fullmetaljacket on Nov 16, 2023 18:02:00 GMT
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Post by wagsastokie on Nov 16, 2023 18:03:07 GMT
I think the point is the unprincipled charlatan will say or stand in front of whatever he feels will get him elected Sorry, are you trying to equate standing in front of a banner opposing Israel from playing football with being for a ceasefire in the current war rather than humanitarian pauses? And that Starmer has somehow forgotten his principles of standing in front of a poster about kicking Israel out of FIFA because he would prefer humanitarian pauses to war rather than a ceasefire? You are really clutching at straws No just pointing out it’s not the first and certainly not the last time that he’ll sacrifice his alleged principles for the grubby reins of power Take a look of his pledges when seeking the labour leadership
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 16, 2023 18:06:08 GMT
The amendment to the King’s Speech was never going to pass. Our government’s vote at the UN on the issue was far more important and influential. Yesterday was utterly irrelevant to the war. It was the SNP who wanted the vote. Many people in this country will look at it as Jewish Vs Muslim vote it's just how it is. There will be Muslims and Jews who want a ceasefire but that feels like a minority as they are given very little voice by the media. Our politicians are meant to represent everyone in this country of all backgrounds, it's the price of multiculturalism. Our main party's should be completely impartial and be pushing for peace not war and they aren't. There must be many Muslims in this country questioning whether our country has their backs at all. How is pushing for a pause in fighting not wanting peace? Do tell me the difference between, say, a 3 day ceasefire and a 3 day humanitarian pause in fighting so aid can be allowed in?
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 16, 2023 18:07:42 GMT
Sorry, are you trying to equate standing in front of a banner opposing Israel from playing football with being for a ceasefire in the current war rather than humanitarian pauses? And that Starmer has somehow forgotten his principles of standing in front of a poster about kicking Israel out of FIFA because he would prefer humanitarian pauses to war rather than a ceasefire? You are really clutching at straws No just pointing out it’s not the first and certainly not the last time that he’ll sacrifice his alleged principles for the grubby reins of power Take a look of his pledges when seeking the labour leadership How has he sacrificed his principles? He wasn’t standing in front of a poster saying “ceasefires are better than humanitarian pauses regardless of the length of ceasefire or the conflict we are referring to”. It isn’t black or white. One side or the other. Either against Israel regardless, or for them regardless.
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Post by wagsastokie on Nov 16, 2023 18:11:21 GMT
No just pointing out it’s not the first and certainly not the last time that he’ll sacrifice his alleged principles for the grubby reins of power Take a look of his pledges when seeking the labour leadership How has he sacrificed his principles? He wasn’t standing in front of a poster saying “ceasefires are better than humanitarian pauses regardless of the length of ceasefire or the conflict we are referring to”. It isn’t black or white. One side or the other. Either against Israel regardless, or for them regardless. No mention of his labour leadership pledges I see You believe what you like about him I’ll stick with my opinion he’s about as trustworthy as a Lib Dem politician
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Post by andystokey on Nov 16, 2023 18:18:32 GMT
I think the point is the unprincipled charlatan will say or stand in front of whatever he feels will get him elected I think the events of Oct 7th has influenced his current position though so I don’t think this is an own of any sort. Israel going after Hamas is morally justifiable, even though I think the civilian death toll is hugely counter productive. I think the analogy of us flattening Ireland to rid the world of the IRA is not unreasonable. You can't conduct a "war on terror" George W, the UK and many others have tried and failed. How will Isreal know when the job is done? So far 12k civilians have died mostly kids. A massive community has been destroyed so far and 1.5 million people displaced. Hostages released by Isreal 0-2. Hamas fighters claimed killed by Isreal 1500 (but most of those were on the 7th Oct) Hamas has a fighting force of 50k alleged. At the current rate of collateral damage 400,000 civilians would have to die. How on earth do Isreal know when they've beaten Hamas?
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 16, 2023 18:19:55 GMT
How has he sacrificed his principles? He wasn’t standing in front of a poster saying “ceasefires are better than humanitarian pauses regardless of the length of ceasefire or the conflict we are referring to”. It isn’t black or white. One side or the other. Either against Israel regardless, or for them regardless. No mention of his labour leadership pledges I see You believe what you like about him I’ll stick with my opinion he’s about as trustworthy as a Lib Dem politician I thought he had sacrificed his principles on Israel because of that ridiculous tweet!? You’ve backtracked quickly! You mean the pre covid leadership pledges….absolutely nothing has happened since then that could possibly have changed priorities and scope of the changes possible. No country in the world has the same policies now as they did in early 2020.
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