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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Mar 29, 2020 17:32:09 GMT
Part of the problem with all this is that the history of the Irish problem is complex and nuanced. You say the "very republican army which he obviously follows killed a lot of people" but it's not as simple as that. Far from it. There has been the official IRA, the provisional IRA, now the new IRA and various other branches, with very, very different approaches to violence. In this country, for understandable reasons, most people associate the IRA with the provisional IRA but even they abandoned violence as part of the Good Friday agreement, and we had the extraordinary achievement of Ian Paisley and Martin McGuiness working together as First Minister and deputy and even known as the chuckle brothers. And of course the British Army killed innocent citizens in McLean's home City on bloody Sunday, which no doubt influences his approach to wearing a poppy, but I don't think it's accurate to say that he turns remembrance Sunday into a circus centred around him. I'm not aware of anything he's done like that. I do remember when we played at the City Ground in November 18 he linked arms with the rest of the team during the minute silence. I can't believe he enjoys all this, but, without repeating in detail what I've said above, I do think he made a significant error of judgement with this post. Like the large majority of Stoke fans, I've never met him, let alone discussed the Irish issue with him (something I'd actually like to do, to understand his position better, but of course it won't ever happen) but I agree with you to this extent that I suspect that he doesn't understand what an emotive subject this can be for many people on this side of the water as well, and how easily actions can be misunderstood and misinterpreted. How about the time he purposely ran out of the tunnel during the last post/minutes silence whilst every other player from both teams were either on the pitch or observing by the dug out? That was a pre determined action, done for one reason and one reason only mate, it had to be. OK, let's look at that incident. I'll start by agreeing with you that he should really have waited at the entrance to the tunnel until the minutes silence was over and not continued down the touchline to the bench. From my recollection from the main stand he walked not ran, but without VAR we perhaps can't settle that one. You say he purposely timed his entrance to co-incide with the silence, but you've no way of knowing that. But what you have failed to mention is that the following week at the City Ground he linked arms with the other members of the team and respected the silence. If, as you say, he wants to make a public show of disrespect for the minutes silence he would not have done that. I suggest that you don't know any more than I do what he actually thinks about the silence, but if you bring that topic up, you should in all fairness set out all the evidence and not be selective by only citing the parts which suit your narrative.
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Mar 29, 2020 17:54:28 GMT
What absolute rubbish. Can't beat a good made up story about someone. 'shat his pants'....oh dear. As for money being far more important than his beliefs , you have no idea...again. Why do people make this stuff up? Anyway has been done to death and will never sink in with some and well done to both on their good work, something McClean makes a habit of. I remember yourself getting utterly humiliated on a previous McClean post btw. You will have to remind me of this humiliation or point me in it's direction? You have no idea that I am wrong either. Why did he apologise if he didn't do anything wrong? H Hang on. If you do something with one motivation or intention but it gets (quite reasonably) misinterpreted or misunderstood, or causes an offence which you didn't intend, then it's quite appropriate to apologise. It doesn't mean that you accept that your intention was wrong. It seems to me he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't on this one. If he hadn't apologised I've no doubt that many on here, probably including your goodself, would have castigated him for that.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2020 17:58:49 GMT
How about the time he purposely ran out of the tunnel during the last post/minutes silence whilst every other player from both teams were either on the pitch or observing by the dug out? That was a pre determined action, done for one reason and one reason only mate, it had to be. OK, let's look at that incident. I'll start by agreeing with you that he should really have waited at the entrance to the tunnel until the minutes silence was over and not continued down the touchline to the bench. From my recollection from the main stand he walked not ran, but without VAR we perhaps can't settle that one. You say he purposely timed his entrance to co-incide with the silence, but you've no way of knowing that. But what you have failed to mention is that the following week at the City Ground he linked arms with the other members of the team and respected the silence. If, as you say, he wants to make a public show of disrespect for the minutes silence he would not have done that. I suggest that you don't know any more than I do what he actually thinks about the silence, but if you bring that topic up, you should in all fairness set out all the evidence and not be selective by only citing the parts which suit your narrative. There is more evidence though isn't there Malcolm, like when he was at West Brom, which pretty much turned the majority of their fan base against him. You have your opinion which is obviously fair enough but I find it hard to believe that James McLean didn't walk out as a one man protest that time, and who knows, just like the club have made him do this time, perhaps they made him tow the party line against Forest. I'll say it one last time, this bloke isn't worth the mither he brings with him and whatever we may think, the club have obviously deemed that he has brought their name into disrepute here and quite rightly so.
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Post by RAF on Mar 29, 2020 18:05:13 GMT
You will have to remind me of this humiliation or point me in it's direction? You have no idea that I am wrong either. Why did he apologise if he didn't do anything wrong? H Hang on. If you do something with one motivation or intention but it gets (quite reasonably) misinterpreted or misunderstood, or causes an offence which you didn't intend, then it's quite appropriate to apologise. It doesn't mean that you accept that your intention was wrong. It seems to me he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't on this one. If he hadn't apologised I've no doubt that many on here, probably including your goodself, would have castigated him for that. So I was right with option A then? You'd have to be thick as a Whale Omelette to post something like that and not expect any kind of backlash. For me the only reason he has apologised and taken it down is he would have lost his job. I don't believe for one second he is actually sorry. I don't buy into this 'misrepresented or 'misunderstood, apologist stuff. He knew what he was doing and he's had his hand forced. If he actually thought he had done nothing wrong he would have fought his corner surely? H
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Mar 29, 2020 19:18:57 GMT
Hang on. If you do something with one motivation or intention but it gets (quite reasonably) misinterpreted or misunderstood, or causes an offence which you didn't intend, then it's quite appropriate to apologise. It doesn't mean that you accept that your intention was wrong. It seems to me he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't on this one. If he hadn't apologised I've no doubt that many on here, probably including your goodself, would have castigated him for that. So I was right with option A then? You'd have to be thick as a Whale Omelette to post something like that and not expect any kind of backlash. For me the only reason he has apologised and taken it down is he would have lost his job. I don't believe for one second he is actually sorry. I don't buy into this 'misrepresented or 'misunderstood, apologist stuff. He knew what he was doing and he's had his hand forced. If he actually thought he had done nothing wrong he would have fought his corner surely? H On Option A, leaving aside your rather unpleasant language, as I said in earlier posts on another thread, intelligence, motivation and judgement are very different qualities. Poor judgement isn't a synonym for low intelligence. At the risk of repeating myself, I think it was a hamfisted and ill-judged attempt at satire which many readers didn't pick up on, and wasn't very funny even if you did, and which was an uncomfortable image to promulgate. The rest of your post contains a series of speculations, but that is all they are, speculations.
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Post by RAF on Mar 29, 2020 20:01:50 GMT
So I was right with option A then? You'd have to be thick as a Whale Omelette to post something like that and not expect any kind of backlash. For me the only reason he has apologised and taken it down is he would have lost his job. I don't believe for one second he is actually sorry. I don't buy into this 'misrepresented or 'misunderstood, apologist stuff. He knew what he was doing and he's had his hand forced. If he actually thought he had done nothing wrong he would have fought his corner surely? H On Option A, leaving aside your rather unpleasant language, as I said in earlier posts on another thread, intelligence, motivation and judgement are very different qualities. Poor judgement isn't a synonym for low intelligence. At the risk of repeating myself, I think it was a hamfisted and ill-judged attempt at satire which many readers didn't pick up on, and wasn't very funny even if you did, and which was an uncomfortable image to promulgate. The rest of your post contains a series of speculations, but that is all they are, speculations. Oh absolutely Malcolm, they are my thoughts only and absolute speculation based on his past record and how I've seen things unfold. If it had been a one off then I think poor judgement could mitigate him. It's not though and his inability to learn from past mistakes displays a low level of intelligence. IMHO obviously. I appreciate that seems fairly ironic due to the language I have used, I just type as I talk. I am aware I swear quite alot and if it offends you I apologise. H
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Post by numpty40 on Mar 29, 2020 20:12:19 GMT
McClean knew what the reaction to that post would be, he's done it time and time again. As I've said previously, certain footballers are talented enough to make excuses and allowances for and McClean certainly isn't. I can't wait for the day he leaves our club.
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Post by StaffordPotter on Mar 29, 2020 20:47:08 GMT
McClean knew what the reaction to that post would be, he's done it time and time again. As I've said previously, certain footballers are talented enough to make excuses and allowances for and McClean certainly isn't. I can't wait for the day he leaves our club. Dilly dilly.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2020 21:01:14 GMT
McClean knew what the reaction to that post would be, he's done it time and time again. As I've said previously, certain footballers are talented enough to make excuses and allowances for and McClean certainly isn't. I can't wait for the day he leaves our club. So if he was as good as Messi your counter arguments would go out of the window and you’d tolerate him?
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Post by numpty40 on Mar 29, 2020 21:30:56 GMT
McClean knew what the reaction to that post would be, he's done it time and time again. As I've said previously, certain footballers are talented enough to make excuses and allowances for and McClean certainly isn't. I can't wait for the day he leaves our club. So if he was as good as Messi your counter arguments would go out of the window and you’d tolerate him? I can't think of a footballer who has ever been as political as McClean. Therefore I honestly can't answer that question. However I'm sure there are many footballers who hold controversial views but keep them to themselves. My point is he is a very limited footballer and the club don't need the shit that follows him around. Like it or not, Messi may be worth the occasional shit storm because of what he can do on the pitch.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2020 22:17:56 GMT
So if he was as good as Messi your counter arguments would go out of the window and you’d tolerate him? I can't think of a footballer who has ever been as political as McClean. You could think of virtually the entire Barcelona team (minus foreigners) who took their Catalan issues on to their football games.
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Post by skip on Mar 29, 2020 23:27:34 GMT
I only saw McCleans's insta. post today (a screenshot) and FWIW I thought it was rather dry.
Disclaimer yes yes yes, taste, politics, etc., yada yadda yadda,
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Post by markby on Mar 30, 2020 0:32:36 GMT
He might have been indoctrinated in his own childhood. Or something else left a scar in his personality. Like you mate, I haven't got the first clue why he does and says what he says. Here is an article by someone who does know him reasonably well, indeed terms him a friend, Gareth McAuley, ex-WBA and NI.
James McClean has always lacked judgement . . . but his latest action is indefensible
I've always tried to defend my controversial pal James McClean.
He can be daft, stupid and irresponsible but I know, from our days at West Brom together, he has a good heart.
When it comes to football, he is a terrific trainer, giving his all, pushing himself to the extreme and in some regards maybe does too much. Football wise, you will not find someone who works harder and his tackling is raw and full blooded.
He doesn't drink, looks after himself physically and it was this dedication that I admired about James at West Brom.
We obviously had major differences in opinion, especially politically and on the poppy, but were able to park that and be friends. While I didn't agree with him on all his stances, I could certainly understand where he was coming from, including when it came to not representing Northern Ireland.
I also knew he was easily led, lacked judgement and was constantly trying to impress people.
At Sunderland, he once bought a Lamborghini, without even having his driving test! Manager Martin O'Neill ordered him to return it.
On a West Brom trip to Barcelona, the one made famous with the players in the taxi, James ate a fish eye! We were in a restaurant and the waiters brought out an entire fish and proceeded to descale it up and serve it to some of the players.
James was egged on to eat the fish eye - it was like something out of I'm a Celebrity Get Me Out of Here and the Bushtucker Trials and he munched his way through it as his team-mates cheered on. It was awful, but he did it.
Those things were silly. However, what James posted on social media this week, a picture of him wearing a balaclava while teaching his kids 'history', was stupid and deeply offensive.
He had to be encouraged to do it by one of his so called 'friends', I'm not convinced he would have thought of it himself. But he would have known it would have been seen offensive.
His club, Stoke City, were quick to act, fining him the maximum two weeks wages and ordering him to remove his Instagram account and as his friend, I can't defend him - it was needless and wrong.
I believe it undermines everything he has said about him being singled out and targeted when fans shout stuff about the IRA to him.
It throws a shadow of doubt over him and is anybody in authority going to take him seriously now?
It was ill-judged, he has brought this on himself and he now must deal with attention that didn't need to be coming his way.
I know for a fact the Professional Footballers' Association have tried to contact him and support him with regards the abuse he receives. But while James cries foul about not receiving help, he isn't interested in entering into any form of dialogue with the PFA.
Having played under Michael O'Neill, now manager of James at Stoke, he'll be fuming that an incident like this has placed the spotlight on one of his top players for all the wrong reasons.
The club have backed him so much in recent months that they'll think this is a slap in their face.
Michael will be annoyed that this is a distraction when the focus should be on supporting the country and NHS against this deadly coronavirus.
He prefers low maintenance players in his squads - that's why he is so frustrated by Kyle Lafferty.
James is a decent, talented footballer and I had a lot of time for him when we were together at West Brom. But his actions off the pitch have defined his career and that is incredibly sad.
He'll be remembered for being irresponsible, daft and lacking judgement.
And unfortunately due to his recent action, I can no longer defend the indefensible.
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Post by skip on Mar 30, 2020 0:35:25 GMT
I for one, think James McClean's political position is at least based in personal reality, if lacking in diplomacy.
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Post by markby on Mar 30, 2020 0:42:57 GMT
I for one, think James McClean's political position is at least based in personal reality, if lacking in diplomacy. If by "personal reality" you mean "personal experience", then just about every single Irish footballer, North or South, Protestant or Catholic, Loyalist or Republican, past or present, has personal experience of The Troubles.
I cannot think of one other who has so regularly and publicly nailed his colours to the mast, including those who, unlike McClean, are actually old enough to remember episodes like Bloody Sunday.
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Post by skip on Mar 30, 2020 0:47:16 GMT
I for one, think James McClean's political position is at least based in personal reality, if lacking in diplomacy. If by "personal reality" you mean "personal experience", then just about every single Irish footballer, North or South, Protestant or Catholic, Loyalist or Republican, past or present, has personal experience of The Troubles. I cannot think of one other who has so regularly and publicly nailed his colours to the mast, including those who, unlike McClean, are actually old enough to remember episodes like Bloody Sunday.
Fair point, but I rather admire McCleans' attitude of don't give a fuck.
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Post by RAF on Mar 30, 2020 8:56:43 GMT
If by "personal reality" you mean "personal experience", then just about every single Irish footballer, North or South, Protestant or Catholic, Loyalist or Republican, past or present, has personal experience of The Troubles. I cannot think of one other who has so regularly and publicly nailed his colours to the mast, including those who, unlike McClean, are actually old enough to remember episodes like Bloody Sunday.
Fair point, but I rather admire McCleans' attitude of don't give a fuck. He certainly gave a fuck when faced with the sack. H
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2020 9:39:13 GMT
Has he been charged by the FA yet?
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Post by spitthedog on Mar 30, 2020 10:04:19 GMT
There is so much hypocrisy on this board
Many of the same people screaming that they are offended by this are the ones who label others Snowflakes when they are offended.
Ok feel free to be offended but then you have no right to jump on others for their being offended about other stuff. Can't have it both ways.
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Mar 30, 2020 13:57:18 GMT
On Option A, leaving aside your rather unpleasant language, as I said in earlier posts on another thread, intelligence, motivation and judgement are very different qualities. Poor judgement isn't a synonym for low intelligence. At the risk of repeating myself, I think it was a hamfisted and ill-judged attempt at satire which many readers didn't pick up on, and wasn't very funny even if you did, and which was an uncomfortable image to promulgate. The rest of your post contains a series of speculations, but that is all they are, speculations. Oh absolutely Malcolm, they are my thoughts only and absolute speculation based on his past record and how I've seen things unfold. If it had been a one off then I think poor judgement could mitigate him. It's not though and his inability to learn from past mistakes displays a low level of intelligence. IMHO obviously. I appreciate that seems fairly ironic due to the language I have used, I just type as I talk. I am aware I swear quite alot and if it offends you I apologise. H Thanks for that. It doesn't offend me as such, RAF. After all, I'm 73 and have been round a few blocks. Also, I might be wrong, but I think I might have heard the occasional swear word at Stoke City games over the years That said, my late father, an active shop steward, who often had to negotiate with management, always said to me "If you're in the right you can afford to be civil, if you're in the wrong, you're a fool to be anything else". Didn't always live up it himself, mind, but it's a life lesson I've always tried to take with me. I do also think that foul language, particularly directed at people, and particularly on social media, makes it much more difficult to have a constructive dialogue from which we can all learn. And I think we should all be constantly learning from others, even those we may strongly disagree with on certain issues, such as this one. As my avatar says "Listen to learn, not to reply". Boards like this and social media generally have made a huge difference to our ability to communicate very quickly to a large number of people. That has great upsides but also downsides. I suspect James McL is currently feeling the effect of a downside. Another downside in my view is that issues which really have shades of grey often turn rapidly into black and white issues with people taking entrenched positions and being determined to "win". Anonymous usernames and the lack of the human benefits of face to face exchanges encourage this and foul language just makes it worse IMHO. Sorry if that sounds a little self-righteous. To give things a lighter note, if I can manage it technically ( always doubtful in my case) I will post something on this theme in a minute which will amuse you.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2020 14:02:27 GMT
Some people just lack nuance , when it comes to this guy .
It's not necessary to agree with everything he says and does .
As a stoke fan , you can like the fact , he intentionally overstretched himself ( and injured himself ) to win us a vital last minute corner in a recent must win game v Sheffield Wednesday .
Donates his money generously to Donna Louise trust
And was genuinely applauded , by a local team of Downs syndrome children in northern Ireland , for personally comming to their aid , when they couldn't get a game.
That's a lot more positive stuff , than can be attributed to him than to imbula , berahino and wimmer , during their time in the potteries .
For those who insist on being negative , there are players far more deserving of your criticism than James McClean
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Post by PotterLog on Mar 30, 2020 14:32:28 GMT
I only saw McCleans's insta. post today (a screenshot) and FWIW I thought it was rather dry. Disclaimer yes yes yes, taste, politics, etc., yada yadda yadda, It was inappropriate and offensive, i.e. everything that good comedy (which is what it was) is meant to be. It's probably the funniest social media post I've ever seen from a Stoke player. Unfortunately our Jimmy isn't a comedian. I doubt he regrets it though, worth it for the joke.
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Mar 30, 2020 14:34:03 GMT
Oh absolutely Malcolm, they are my thoughts only and absolute speculation based on his past record and how I've seen things unfold. If it had been a one off then I think poor judgement could mitigate him. It's not though and his inability to learn from past mistakes displays a low level of intelligence. IMHO obviously. I appreciate that seems fairly ironic due to the language I have used, I just type as I talk. I am aware I swear quite alot and if it offends you I apologise. H Thanks for that. It doesn't offend me as such, RAF. After all, I'm 73 and have been round a few blocks. Also, I might be wrong, but I think I might have heard the occasional swear word at Stoke City games over the years That said, my late father, an active shop steward, who often had to negotiate with management, always said to me "If you're in the right you can afford to be civil, if you're in the wrong, you're a fool to be anything else". Didn't always live up it himself, mind, but it's a life lesson I've always tried to take with me. I do also think that foul language, particularly directed at people, and particularly on social media, makes it much more difficult to have a constructive dialogue from which we can all learn. And I think we should all be constantly learning from others, even those we may strongly disagree with on certain issues, such as this one. As my avatar says "Listen to learn, not to reply". Boards like this and social media generally have made a huge difference to our ability to communicate very quickly to a large number of people. That has great upsides but also downsides. I suspect James McL is currently feeling the effect of a downside. Another downside in my view is that issues which really have shades of grey often turn rapidly into black and white issues with people taking entrenched positions and being determined to "win". Anonymous usernames and the lack of the human benefits of face to face exchanges encourage this and foul language just makes it worse IMHO. Sorry if that sounds a little self-righteous. To give things a lighter note, if I can manage it technically ( always doubtful in my case) I will post something on this theme in a minute which will amuse you. I couldn't do it. It's a photo of a cartoon at my expense about foul language in Private Eye a few years ago. But the file is too big to load on here. I assume there's no way round that ?
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Post by PotterLog on Mar 30, 2020 15:28:57 GMT
Thanks for that. It doesn't offend me as such, RAF. After all, I'm 73 and have been round a few blocks. Also, I might be wrong, but I think I might have heard the occasional swear word at Stoke City games over the years That said, my late father, an active shop steward, who often had to negotiate with management, always said to me "If you're in the right you can afford to be civil, if you're in the wrong, you're a fool to be anything else". Didn't always live up it himself, mind, but it's a life lesson I've always tried to take with me. I do also think that foul language, particularly directed at people, and particularly on social media, makes it much more difficult to have a constructive dialogue from which we can all learn. And I think we should all be constantly learning from others, even those we may strongly disagree with on certain issues, such as this one. As my avatar says "Listen to learn, not to reply". Boards like this and social media generally have made a huge difference to our ability to communicate very quickly to a large number of people. That has great upsides but also downsides. I suspect James McL is currently feeling the effect of a downside. Another downside in my view is that issues which really have shades of grey often turn rapidly into black and white issues with people taking entrenched positions and being determined to "win". Anonymous usernames and the lack of the human benefits of face to face exchanges encourage this and foul language just makes it worse IMHO. Sorry if that sounds a little self-righteous. To give things a lighter note, if I can manage it technically ( always doubtful in my case) I will post something on this theme in a minute which will amuse you. I couldn't do it. It's a photo of a cartoon at my expense about foul language in Private Eye a few years ago. But the file is too big to load on here. I assume there's no way round that ? fao RAF
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Post by RAF on Mar 30, 2020 16:03:39 GMT
Thanks for that. It doesn't offend me as such, RAF. After all, I'm 73 and have been round a few blocks. Also, I might be wrong, but I think I might have heard the occasional swear word at Stoke City games over the years That said, my late father, an active shop steward, who often had to negotiate with management, always said to me "If you're in the right you can afford to be civil, if you're in the wrong, you're a fool to be anything else". Didn't always live up it himself, mind, but it's a life lesson I've always tried to take with me. I do also think that foul language, particularly directed at people, and particularly on social media, makes it much more difficult to have a constructive dialogue from which we can all learn. And I think we should all be constantly learning from others, even those we may strongly disagree with on certain issues, such as this one. As my avatar says "Listen to learn, not to reply". Boards like this and social media generally have made a huge difference to our ability to communicate very quickly to a large number of people. That has great upsides but also downsides. I suspect James McL is currently feeling the effect of a downside. Another downside in my view is that issues which really have shades of grey often turn rapidly into black and white issues with people taking entrenched positions and being determined to "win". Anonymous usernames and the lack of the human benefits of face to face exchanges encourage this and foul language just makes it worse IMHO. Sorry if that sounds a little self-righteous. To give things a lighter note, if I can manage it technically ( always doubtful in my case) I will post something on this theme in a minute which will amuse you. I couldn't do it. It's a photo of a cartoon at my expense about foul language in Private Eye a few years ago. But the file is too big to load on here. I assume there's no way round that ? Potterlog has sorted it for you Malcolm! Very Funny. I don't think you were being self righteous btw. If that is what you believe I respect that. I can be as constructive as the next man but you can expect a few effs and jeffs along the way. It's part of my makeup unfortunately H
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Post by liathroid on Apr 4, 2020 19:19:50 GMT
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Post by boskampsflaps on Apr 4, 2020 21:11:29 GMT
Fair point, but I rather admire McCleans' attitude of don't give a fuck. He certainly gave a fuck when faced with the sack. H No chance they would have sacked him over it.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2020 21:13:34 GMT
Carrying on his good work while some cry over a bloody photo he posted.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2020 2:10:49 GMT
Carrying on his good work while some cry over a bloody photo he posted. A lot of footballers do a heap of good charity work and never or rarely speak about it. But when McClean does things, and he does a lot, he calls in a press conference. I suppose he has to make everyone see that he really is a good man at heart. He might be, but it's going to take more than this before he re-stablishes his credentials, if ever he will.
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Post by banksisgod on Apr 5, 2020 9:27:09 GMT
Anyone who knows anything about Northern Ireland, and it's people, will testify that the humour, on both sides of the religious/political/cultural divide, was and is, the darkest of dark. That's what happens when you have been born and raised in a toxic atmosphere that few on here have experienced.
James McClean is guilty of possibly misjudging the reaction of some people to a photo that was intended as humourous. Or, as is more likely, he knew exactly what kind of reaction the photo would evoke, and didn't give a monkeys.
One thing is very evident; there are a lot of people on here who have disliked the guy long before he joined the club. Some have been broad-minded enough to allow their views to be changed over time, as the lung-bursting performances and selfless acts of charity mounted up. Others, it would appear, are more fixed in their views, choosing instead to see the photo as justification for a long-held opinion of J McC as some kind of low-life.
Interestingly, you would have to search far and wide to find either a manager or a team-mate, past or present, who speaks of James in less than the most glowing of terms.
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