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Post by sportsman on May 13, 2020 14:28:51 GMT
I really don't know what more I can say to you, it just isn't as black and white as you seem to think it is. The Government will be given a series of suggestions of what is likely to happen if they take certain actions and then the GOVERNMENT will decide on what course of action they're going to take. Whitty and Valance aren't economists, if it was entirely down to them and they only had to worry about keeping as many people alive as possible at all costs, then they'd keep us in lockdown until we get a vaccine wouldn't they? If Johnson didn't have to worry about the economy, he'd do the same but he can't and that's why ultimately the decision can't ever be about entirely following the science, it's far more nuanced than that. Trade offs (how much is a life worth?) will have to be made but the scientists don't make those decisions. So are you now agreeing that even though scientists would lock us down for maybe 2 years, the economy says we have to try move now or it could cost more lives in other ways? So boris is right đ
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Post by thebet365 on May 13, 2020 14:31:46 GMT
Ok Boris Baffers.Has Boris "Got Covid19 Done." cause ive just been out and theres people everywhere (not social distancing.) behaving like its a normal Wednesday.Roads full ,shops full spreading like theres no tomorrow.( which there wont be for many of them.) I've no idea what city you live in but I've just had to leave work near Hanley to go pick up the mrs from work in castle and drop her off at home then get back to Hanley, the roads are still a ghost town compared to the usual traffic volume, there was defo a few more people walking about but far far away from being full and everywhere, and the mrs shop where she works was no busier than it's been upto now. So no in Stoke Boris hasn't got Covid19 done.
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Post by sportsman on May 13, 2020 14:36:23 GMT
Mastership of the arena 𤣠I love how only people against the government keep attaching clippings and stuff from reporters, newspapers, james o bloody brien! It doesn't matter what you keep putting up, it doesn't necessarily make it right. Ever since during Brexit I never once listened to media, papers, journalists. I take them all with a pinch of salt. At the moment everyone is an expert on covid 19. Everyone is an expert on the economy. Everyone is an expert at putting up figures and numbers. All I know, is there is a virus out there that kills people and you have to be bloody careful and follow simple common sense things if you do venture out. Anything other than that is just he says she says at the moment be it government, media, bloke on the street, and I'm sure that goes for every country.
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Post by Paul Spencer on May 13, 2020 14:36:29 GMT
So are you now agreeing that even though scientists would lock us down for maybe 2 years, the economy says we have to try move now or it could cost more lives in other ways? So boris is right đ No. But you knew that already. đ
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2020 14:37:46 GMT
The overall mortality figures are produced by the Office of National Staistics though who are non-ministerial and report directly to parliament. Surely you trust them? That's my point. If that's our independent figures from our office, have other countries got the same. Still wouldn't trust any figures at the moment though. You're talking about data collated from issued death certificates, it would be pretty scandalous if it wasn't accurate. A Russia or a Brazil maybe but Germany, Italy, Spain, France I'm not so sure?
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Post by sportsman on May 13, 2020 14:39:58 GMT
Well we mostly ARE waiting another couple of weeks, and even then it will not be much. Things are being spun by the media as if there's some sort of big change happening this week. There isn't. People who were already told they could go to work, are again being told they can go to work. We hope to open a tiny bit of the school system - but not for a couple of weeks at least. You can go out alone for longer or meet one other person outside. You can go to a garden centre. Some takeaways who were never supposed to close, are slowly but only partially reopening. Er that's about it. It's not like we've opened the floodgates, and anyone healthy who is still so terrified that they feel the need to hide under a rock until there's a vaccine, can do so, just as long as they don't expect the free money to continue that long. Even then they've got until the end of October! That is clearly not how the scientists on the alternative SAGE panel view it but hey, that's fine, you disagree with them. I can completely see the logic in what they're saying, we've got the infection rate down, now let's not take any measures to risk it going back up until we've got the test, track and trace protocols in place, or else we run the risk of having wasted all the time and economic hurt, we've had to endure so far and ultimately we could make things even worse for us economically, I get the argument, it makes sense, to me. And to tell you the truth, that's what I thought Hancock's message had been lately, to do that and if I'm guessing, I wouldn't be surprised if that's what he still wanted to do. But at the same time, I appreciate that Johnson has got other members of his party turning up the heat on him to go sooner on the economy and they're probably disappointed that Johnson actually hasn't gone far enough with the measures he announced at the beginning of the week. Ultimately Johnson has probably had to come down somewhere in the middle, I get that and I sincerely hope that he hasn't got it wrong and that the alternative SAGE panel are being too cautious. Let's really hope so. At last. Someone who has pretty much summed up what looks like is happening. And fingers crossed we get through it ok. We want to fill that stadium of ours next season. đ¤
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Post by sportsman on May 13, 2020 14:42:12 GMT
Iâve seen a couple of posts on here with posters saying words to the effect of Murdoch wants Boris replaced. There didnât seem to be any tangible evidence or even a link which normally riddles this thread, so Iâm guessing it must be true.đđ They might get one off james o bloody brien!! God help us on here sometimes
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 13, 2020 14:42:36 GMT
Thatâs a paper on establishing a rhesus monkey model for Covid infection. Absolutely vital, gives us tools to develop treatment and potentially do infectious challenge studies which is the one of the first steps to understanding length of immunity outside of people getting infected. Monkeys recapitulate many of the hallmarks and infections lasts for a similar time. This is really important as human infection challenge studies would really take a long time to pass any ethical barriers due to the potential severity of the disease. Dr Van Doremalen is one of the former members of the Gilbert lab and did a lot of the groundwork for the ChAdOx1 vector now in clinical trials. She did a lot of the safety profiling for it on the MERS virus which catapulted Oxford to the front of the queue. The Oxford vaccine protected this sort of monkey from the virus didnât it?
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Post by sportsman on May 13, 2020 14:45:44 GMT
That's my point. If that's our independent figures from our office, have other countries got the same. Still wouldn't trust any figures at the moment though. You're talking about data collated from issued death certificates, it would be pretty scandalous if it wasn't accurate. A Russia or a Brazil maybe but Germany, Italy, Spain, France I'm not so sure? Are you sure you're not sure? Imagine an election say for Macron and he's top of the champions league of deaths table for Europe? Hmmm?
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on May 13, 2020 14:48:05 GMT
Thatâs a paper on establishing a rhesus monkey model for Covid infection. Absolutely vital, gives us tools to develop treatment and potentially do infectious challenge studies which is the one of the first steps to understanding length of immunity outside of people getting infected. Monkeys recapitulate many of the hallmarks and infections lasts for a similar time. This is really important as human infection challenge studies would really take a long time to pass any ethical barriers due to the potential severity of the disease. Dr Van Doremalen is one of the former members of the Gilbert lab and did a lot of the groundwork for the ChAdOx1 vector now in clinical trials. She did a lot of the safety profiling for it on the MERS virus which catapulted Oxford to the front of the queue. The Oxford vaccine protected this sort of monkey from the virus didnât it? Yeah on a very low n number (just 6 monkeys per group in that study I believe). But they were protected for 4 weeks with constant exposure. This is likely the prelim work done to show they can actually get the virus and sheâll publish that vaccination report accordingly. She already has a lot of stuff out on the protective capacity and safety of the MERS one which garnered a clinical trial which was scheduled for this year before all this crap happened.
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Post by wagsastokie on May 13, 2020 14:49:18 GMT
Ok Boris Baffers.Has Boris "Got Covid19 Done." cause ive just been out and theres people everywhere (not social distancing.) behaving like its a normal Wednesday.Roads full ,shops full spreading like theres no tomorrow.( which there wont be for many of them.) I've no idea what city you live in but I've just had to leave work near Hanley to go pick up the mrs from work in castle and drop her off at home then get back to Hanley, the roads are still a ghost town compared to the usual traffic volume, there was defo a few more people walking about but far far away from being full and everywhere, and the mrs shop where she works was no busier than it's been upto now. So no in Stoke Boris hasn't got Covid19 done. Rural Norfolk is not a lot busier either
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 13, 2020 14:52:45 GMT
The Oxford vaccine protected this sort of monkey from the virus didnât it? Yeah on a very low n number (just 6 monkeys per group in that study I believe). But they were protected for 4 weeks with constant exposure. This is likely the prelim work done to show they can actually get the virus and sheâll publish that vaccination report accordingly. She already has a lot of stuff out on the protective capacity and safety of the MERS one which garnered a clinical trial which was scheduled for this year before all this crap happened. A bloody good start though. And presumably no news is good news re the human trials and if it's gone tits up?
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Post by questionable on May 13, 2020 14:55:41 GMT
I honestly think that the lock down message is still firmly out there, 99% of people know what to do which is stay in as much as possible, only go out for the necessities and when out adhere to social distancing, thatâs if you need to go out, I can count on one hand how many times Iâve been out in two months where Iâve been in contact with people and that was to do my parents shopping.
All for getting the economy going to some extent but as above people will want to stay at home (if possible) for months, canât think of anything worse as going out to socialize, at a push in a few months I might ask some close friends around for a BBQ.
What seems weird now is when you see ppl from the near past on the TV in stadiums, venues, bars, restaurants, etc, etc in close proximity to one another it looks so weird and something I wonât do for some time.
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Post by Clem Fandango on May 13, 2020 14:58:43 GMT
Has there been any update on the App beta test that's ongoing on the Isle of Wight?
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Post by mrcoke on May 13, 2020 14:58:57 GMT
Mastership of the arena 𤣠I love how only people against the government keep attaching clippings and stuff from reporters, newspapers, james o bloody brien! It doesn't matter what you keep putting up, it doesn't necessarily make it right. Ever since during Brexit I never once listened to media, papers, journalists. I take them all with a pinch of salt. At the moment everyone is an expert on covid 19. Everyone is an expert on the economy. Everyone is an expert at putting up figures and numbers. All I know, is there is a virus out there that kills people and you have to be bloody careful and follow simple common sense things if you do venture out. Anything other than that is just he says she says at the moment be it government, media, bloke on the street, and I'm sure that goes for every country. Of course everyone is an expert, we are football fans. We know how to run the club better than the owner, manage the team better than the manager, and referee the matches better than the referees. Some can even play better than the players, which might actually be true in a few cases!
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on May 13, 2020 15:02:01 GMT
Yeah on a very low n number (just 6 monkeys per group in that study I believe). But they were protected for 4 weeks with constant exposure. This is likely the prelim work done to show they can actually get the virus and sheâll publish that vaccination report accordingly. She already has a lot of stuff out on the protective capacity and safety of the MERS one which garnered a clinical trial which was scheduled for this year before all this crap happened. A bloody good start though. And presumably no news is good news re the human trials and if it's gone tits up? Yeah, other than that pretty sick rumour going round that participant had died (totally untrue) itâs been all quiet. Acute adverse effects would probably have manifested by now, so now itâs hopefully just a question of efficacy.
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Post by Northy on May 13, 2020 15:10:06 GMT
Ok Boris Baffers.Has Boris "Got Covid19 Done." cause ive just been out and theres people everywhere (not social distancing.) behaving like its a normal Wednesday.Roads full ,shops full spreading like theres no tomorrow.( which there wont be for many of them.) I've no idea what city you live in but I've just had to leave work near Hanley to go pick up the mrs from work in castle and drop her off at home then get back to Hanley, the roads are still a ghost town compared to the usual traffic volume, there was defo a few more people walking about but far far away from being full and everywhere, and the mrs shop where she works was no busier than it's been upto now. So no in Stoke Boris hasn't got Covid19 done. Pictures on the TV of central London still very quiet, and central Manchester and Victoria station was pretty empty as the reporter stood there at just after 8 this morning.
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Post by xchpotter on May 13, 2020 15:21:52 GMT
I honestly think that the lock down message is still firmly out there, 99% of people know what to do which is stay in as much as possible, only go out for the necessities and when out adhere to social distancing, thatâs if you need to go out, I can count on one hand how many times Iâve been out in two months where Iâve been in contact with people and that was to do my parents shopping. All for getting the economy going to some extent but as above people will want to stay at home (if possible) for months, canât think of anything worse as going out to socialize, at a push in a few months I might ask some close friends around for a BBQ. What seems weird now is when you see ppl from the near past on the TV in stadiums, venues, bars, restaurants, etc, etc in close proximity to one another it looks so weird and something I wonât do for some time. You need to be careful as it sounds like you have this apparently rare commodity known as âcommon senseâ. You could end up getting kidnapped and attempts made to harvest this super power like they tried to do with Wolverine.đđđ
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Post by chad on May 13, 2020 15:27:31 GMT
Ok Boris Baffers.Has Boris "Got Covid19 Done." cause ive just been out and theres people everywhere (not social distancing.) behaving like its a normal Wednesday.Roads full ,shops full spreading like theres no tomorrow.( which there wont be for many of them.) I've no idea what city you live in but I've just had to leave work near Hanley to go pick up the mrs from work in castle and drop her off at home then get back to Hanley, the roads are still a ghost town compared to the usual traffic volume, there was defo a few more people walking about but far far away from being full and everywhere, and the mrs shop where she works was no busier than it's been upto now. So no in Stoke Boris hasn't got Covid19 done. Been in Crewe and Newcastle last two days. No crowding A bit busier than itâs been for the past 6 weeks but everybody seems to be keeping distances
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Post by Gods on May 13, 2020 15:28:18 GMT
It's all very well scientists saying we should keep the economy shut down and lock everyone in their houses 24/7 until there's a vaccine. It isn't practical and a balance has to be struck. These same scientists have guaranteed jobs with index linked pensions. Take away their salary and pension and say you can't have it unless we have a functioning economy. You'd soon see their advice change. It's easy for them to condemn everyone except themselves to poverty, destitution and house arrest. You make it sound a bit harsh but that is the reality. It becomes about managing risk and people have a weird concept when it comes to risk that changes over time. Individuals start to balance the risk of catching coronavirus, against the risk of dying from coronavirus, against the risk of losing your job/business and running out of money/food. These are all real concerns. The scientists operate in a black & white world view that there is only a life & death choice related to the pandemic. The truth sadly is a lot more grey. Yes, that's why the big decisions need to be political ones, not made by medics with gold plated final salary pensions. Of course MPs have generous final salary arrangements too but they can at least be chucked out of office before they accrue too many years of service!
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Post by stokeson on May 13, 2020 15:31:06 GMT
So Chad Northy ect You DO think Boris has "Got Cov19 Done.".......
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Post by crouchpotato1 on May 13, 2020 15:31:17 GMT
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Post by chad on May 13, 2020 15:32:46 GMT
No surprise that a Guardian journalist as that opinion I listened today and thought it was about even No question though that Starmer is a massive step up from his predecessor
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Post by chad on May 13, 2020 15:38:10 GMT
So Chad Northy ect You DO think Boris has "Got Cov19 Done."....... No. Who as said that ...? No country as yet âgot it doneâ and are not likely to for another six months at least I do think that although mistakes have been made ( and I canât see as any other govt wouldnât have made them) overall heâs doing a good job under extremely difficult circumstances Trying to balance peopleâs lives over total economic collapse isnât a job anybody would want to take on
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Post by nutterpotter on May 13, 2020 15:41:02 GMT
Social distancing in French schools
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 13, 2020 15:44:30 GMT
One thing I have noticed from the pictures from public transport today is the lack of a face covering.
People really need to start doing it even if it's a scarf/old t-shirt whatever.
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Post by sheikhmomo on May 13, 2020 15:45:50 GMT
One exchange in PMQ's proved that Johnson is a complete liar and his Government completely negligent on care homes Guidance shows Starmer right and PM wrong about government claiming care home deaths 'very unlikely' until 12 MarchAt PMQs Boris Johnson claimed that Sir Keir Starmer was wrong to say that government advice was saying until 12 March that people in care homes were at little risk of coronavirus. Here is the document. As you can see at the top, it says it was withdrawn on 13 March. And here is the key quote. This guidance is intended for the current position in the UK where there is currently no transmission of Covid-19 in the community. It is therefore very unlikely that anyone receiving care in a care home or the community will become infected. For reference, this is what Starmer asked: Until 12 March, the governmentâs own official advice was - and Iâm quoting from it: âIt remains very unlikely that people receiving care in a care home will become infected.â Does the prime minister accept that the government was too slow to protect people in care homes? And Johnson replied: No, Mr Speaker. And it wasnât true the advice said that.Starmer has written to Johnson to request that he returns to the House to correct the record about this. They simply don't give a fuck do they. Lying (and a mealy mouthed bullshit denial) during a national crisis and no responsibility or regret for the utter disaster caused by their negligence in the care sector. They are beneath contempt. No 10 rejects Starmer's claim that Johnson misled MPs about official care home adviceNo 10 has rejected Sir Keir Starmerâs claim that Boris Johnson misled MPs at PMQs when the PM said it âwasnât trueâ that the care home sector had been advised it was unlikely to face an outbreak. Starmer has written to Johnson asking him to return to the Commons to correct the record. At PMQs Starmer said that until 12 March official guidance said it remained the case that it was very unlikely that people in care homes were going to be infected by coronavirus, but Johnson told Starmer that wasnât true. The document clearly says: This guidance is intended for the current position in the UK where there is currently no transmission of Covid-19 in the community. It is therefore very unlikely that anyone receiving care in a care home or the community will become infected.
A source said that Starmer had âinaccurately and selectivelyâ quoted from the document, and that therefore the PM was right to say what Starmer said was not right. The source said that in his question Starmer talking about it remaining the case that people in care were unlikely to be infected (the document does not use the word âremainsâ at that point) and the source said the full quote (see above) made it clear that this assurance covered a period where there was no community transmission. Starmer did not include the word âthereforeâ, the source said. The source signalled that Johnson would not be retracting what he said.
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Post by Paul Spencer on May 13, 2020 15:47:04 GMT
I've no idea what city you live in but I've just had to leave work near Hanley to go pick up the mrs from work in castle and drop her off at home then get back to Hanley, the roads are still a ghost town compared to the usual traffic volume, there was defo a few more people walking about but far far away from being full and everywhere, and the mrs shop where she works was no busier than it's been upto now. So no in Stoke Boris hasn't got Covid19 done. Pictures on the TV of central London still very quiet, and central Manchester and Victoria station was pretty empty as the reporter stood there at just after 8 this morning. metro.co.uk/2020/05/13/pictures-show-trains-buses-rammed-millions-urged-return-work-12694839/
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Post by Los Alfareros on May 13, 2020 15:48:31 GMT
Social distancing in French schools Obviously apart from many people losing their lives to this terrible virus, that last image to me is fucking tragic
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Post by Davef on May 13, 2020 15:48:46 GMT
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