|
Post by MilanStokie on Mar 31, 2020 16:05:10 GMT
An interesting analysis on sky news Italy. After 28 days of the outbreak in its specific country:
Spain 6803 dead Italy 4825 dead
Spain has by far had the worst of it and accelerated a lot more aggressively.
|
|
|
Post by MilanStokie on Mar 31, 2020 16:10:32 GMT
Update for Italy,
837 dead today, gone up again...
New cases around the same as yesterday at just over 4,000.
|
|
|
Post by sheikhmomo on Mar 31, 2020 16:11:05 GMT
I can't see the point of the political point scoring on here. It's unnecessary, because history says that Boris and the Tories are toast after this anyway. Remember Churchill lost in 1945 - the reasons being that the country will be virtually bankrupt and no leader can survive that level of economic strife, plus wherever there are tough choices (and there are hundreds of them with this) there will be people who feel hard done by or unfairly treated in comparison, and so he will gradually alienate the majority over something or other. The new third reason is that in years gone by it was accepted that some people would die unnecessarily due to mistakes. War is sometimes described as a catalogue of mistakes, and this is a war. But, nowadays not a single life can be lost without it being somebodies fault, and a shit-storm of criticism follows. That criticism can now be made much more effectively (and anonymously) through new channels - even by those not in possession of the true facts. Personally I'm not a fan of Boris's, but i can empathise with the difficulties of managing the situation. I won't shed any tears when he loses, but I'll stay disenfranchised from the self seeking, hand wringing turds who get in next time and pretend they had all the answers. The situation is already bringing out the best and worst in humanity. Those who hoard, spite bile, exploit the situation for their own gains, steal from food banks, moan constantly, pretend they are coughing to sit in the sun whilst colleagues crack under the workload, those who criticise everything without the guile to come up with anything better, and generally put themselves and their egos before everything else. All I can say is there are plenty of us who wont forget. If the tedious left v right thing can't be let go. Then maybe another thread just to discuss the facts and philosophise would be a good addition. This is my last post on this one. Its a real shame fella because ESOF , from what I can see is bang on the money with info and keeping us all updated at a level (for me at least ) that I can understand…...likewise musik gives us insights into the problems he faces, likewise MilanStokie. Regurgtating info to score points is just childish at this point in time IMO...nothing is gained A real shame Says the wally stalking folk around the messageboard with some sort of form of counting Tourette's!
|
|
|
Post by spitthedog on Mar 31, 2020 16:11:59 GMT
The Chinese Govt couldn't have been that secretive. I was getting emails from nearly all my Chinese students (I teach about 35 of them) over Xmas saying that classes and exams at the end of January should be postponed and the University should be closed down because of this virus and the dangers from students mixing, relating horror stories from China. They were all wearing masks then and nervous about socially interacting These were all forwarded to the University who I know for a fact were forwarding this on to Govt bodies (as Unis follow Gov't guidelines) To their horror, they were being told very assertively that the British Govt guideline was BUSINESS AS USUAL. They were told they would fail if they did not attend exams. Chinese students are notoriously patriotic in fact some of them are sponsored directly by their Gov't. They would not being saying anything that their Gov't would want them to say. They never do. They are carefully monitored. In January though Chinese students were still freely flying back and forth from China to UK without any checks some of them to the Wuhan region. If they were aware of it, then I'm damn sure our Gov't were aware of the dangers we were about to face. 2 months later we were still being told it was ok to shake hands. They arrested two of their own scientists for telling them about it's existence !, not secretive I think you missed the point again! I'm not saying the Chinese Govt is not secretive in any way. I'm saying the evidence is there that this was out in the open months ago regardless of what the Chinese Govt was doing internally. That is, giving plenty of time to act and put in measures. There was nervousness in this country about this at the end of December when we knew a) it is deadly b) there is no existing cure. If you are allowing flights to come in freely from China at that stage knowing this is the case, it doesn't take an expert to tell you what is going to happen. I had 2 students flying in from Wuhan at the end of January with no restrictions on either side. Making out that if it wasn't for China's secretiveness we could have acted before is clearly high work of fiction and an attempt to deflect away from the very casual and in fact, deadly, Business As Usual approach that lasted until past mid March.
|
|
|
Post by henry on Mar 31, 2020 16:12:00 GMT
This is where we’ll see an increase day after day for the next 14 days or so before it begins to plateau and even out. If we top out at around 6-7,000 we’ll have done extremely well considering the balls up we made at the beginning of it. I would be astounded if UK ended on less deaths than italy mate. A very flimsy lockdown still which was delayed as well. The tube is still packed and as of today UK is ahead of Italy in correlation. It doesn't bode well and I repeat it's not about bringing doom and gloom, it's just statistics. Public transport running for non essential workers is as fuck witted as it gets.
|
|
|
Post by ColonelMustard on Mar 31, 2020 16:17:00 GMT
I would be astounded if UK ended on less deaths than italy mate. A very flimsy lockdown still which was delayed as well. The tube is still packed and as of today UK is ahead of Italy in correlation. It doesn't bode well and I repeat it's not about bringing doom and gloom, it's just statistics. Public transport running for non essential workers is as fuck witted as it gets. Very few in London have cars, most dont even have bikes. It's the non essential workers being allowed to work that is nuts. I've ran past multiple contruction sites and groups of delivery drivers with 0 social distancing today. It undermines the whole thing.
|
|
|
Post by spitthedog on Mar 31, 2020 16:17:23 GMT
Chilling UK fatality numbers in the last 24 hours. Government sending Micky Gove out to bat at 5pm. A tough gig it must be said. Donning his box, helmet and pads as I type I would imagine. Head up, chin back, 10 deep breaths... He was infuriating last time. No doubts lots of extremely pertinent questions will again be asked and will again be answered with replies to something else entirely. He's just going to probably blame a) Chinese, though we've known everything we needed to know about this for over 3 months and b) us for not doing what we are being told, conveniently overlooking that just 14 days ago we were being told it was OK for us all to shake hands and insisting schools should stay open.
|
|
|
Post by adri2008 on Mar 31, 2020 16:24:20 GMT
I find it bizarre how the experts still refer to China's stats when it's pretty clear their figures are a best under estimated and more likely a complete load of bollocks (when compared to what's happened elsewhere)
|
|
|
Post by crapslinger on Mar 31, 2020 16:28:40 GMT
They arrested two of their own scientists for telling them about it's existence !, not secretive I think you missed the point again! I'm not saying the Chinese Govt is not secretive in any way. I'm saying the evidence is there that this was out in the open months ago regardless of what the Chinese Govt was doing internally. That is, giving plenty of time to act and put in measures. There was nervousness in this country about this at the end of December when we knew a) it is deadly b) there is no existing cure. If you are allowing flights to come in freely from China at that stage knowing this is the case, it doesn't take an expert to tell you what is going to happen. I had 2 students flying in from Wuhan at the end of January with no restrictions on either side. Making out that if it wasn't for China's secretiveness we could have acted before is clearly high work of fiction and an attempt to deflect away from the very casual and in fact, deadly, Business As Usual approach that lasted until past mid March. Surely letting flights to continue out of the country knowing the nature of this virus was the unacceptable thing to do, they deliberately tried to cover this up that is a fact, whether there oppression of the truth cost the rest of the World is not up for debate, as I said before hopefully this will eventually come to an end then the WHO need to find the source of this and the truth behind the cover up from the Chinese authorities and act accordingly.
|
|
|
Post by skip on Mar 31, 2020 16:29:55 GMT
I can't see the point of the political point scoring on here. It's unnecessary, because history says that Boris and the Tories are toast after this anyway. Just for the record, pragmatism, logic, smart thinking and medicine and science will solve this crisis (not that normal will ever return, we will see a new normal after this version of normality has subsided), but Toby Young is a eugenics advocate, pure and simple, but because he is part of the London Conservative Elite, his voice gets heard and platformed to a seriously dangerous degree. We don't need people like him being heard, regardless of who any of us vote for at election time. Afterword: note my omission of Common Sense as a problem solver. Common Sense is absolutely counter to progressive planning, logistics, design systems and expertise. Common Sense is habitual thought activity born through nothing than memory and wishful thinking. Common Sense - or to give it its slightly more pompous title, received wisdom - thought that cholera was air borne not water borne, and so more people died.
|
|
|
Post by greenman on Mar 31, 2020 16:30:58 GMT
They arrested two of their own scientists for telling them about it's existence !, not secretive I think you missed the point again! I'm not saying the Chinese Govt is not secretive in any way. I'm saying the evidence is there that this was out in the open months ago regardless of what the Chinese Govt was doing internally. That is, giving plenty of time to act and put in measures. There was nervousness in this country about this at the end of December when we knew a) it is deadly b) there is no existing cure. If you are allowing flights to come in freely from China at that stage knowing this is the case, it doesn't take an expert to tell you what is going to happen. I had 2 students flying in from Wuhan at the end of January with no restrictions on either side. Making out that if it wasn't for China's secretiveness we could have acted before is clearly high work of fiction and an attempt to deflect away from the very casual and in fact, deadly, Business As Usual approach that lasted until past mid March. I agree entirely Spit, it is just a diversionary tactic from this government and its media friends to try to deflect from their own inaction up to March 16th when we got the woolly stop going the pub speech from Boris. Isn`t there a medical group in Oxford claiming that half of us have got immunity from this? Is this from that bug doing the rounds around xmas/new year with similar symptoms to covid19. That would explain the reluctance to test everyone.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2020 16:38:06 GMT
Has their ever being a journalist more in love with the sound of his own voice than Robert-fucking-Peston? 3 questions in his annoying elongated, exaggerated style just makes you want to put your foot through the telly......
|
|
|
Post by ColonelMustard on Mar 31, 2020 16:38:50 GMT
I think you missed the point again! I'm not saying the Chinese Govt is not secretive in any way. I'm saying the evidence is there that this was out in the open months ago regardless of what the Chinese Govt was doing internally. That is, giving plenty of time to act and put in measures. There was nervousness in this country about this at the end of December when we knew a) it is deadly b) there is no existing cure. If you are allowing flights to come in freely from China at that stage knowing this is the case, it doesn't take an expert to tell you what is going to happen. I had 2 students flying in from Wuhan at the end of January with no restrictions on either side. Making out that if it wasn't for China's secretiveness we could have acted before is clearly high work of fiction and an attempt to deflect away from the very casual and in fact, deadly, Business As Usual approach that lasted until past mid March. I agree entirely Spit, it is just a diversionary tactic from this government and its media friends to try to deflect from their own inaction up to March 16th when we got the woolly stop going the pub speech from Boris. Isn`t there a medical group in Oxford claiming that half of us have got immunity from this? Is this from that bug doing the rounds around xmas/new year with similar symptoms to covid19. That would explain the reluctance to test everyone.  I heard one expert say that previous infection with a corona virus family might actually make people more vulnerable to complications. Apparently this has been documented previously with the family of viruses. It would go some way to explaining why kids seem not to get complications and the elderly get more. He did not explain the mechanism how this would work.
|
|
|
Post by Laughing Gravy on Mar 31, 2020 16:39:43 GMT
Rather than worrying ourselves silly about the police hassling dicks yomping in the Peak District THIS is what we should be outraged about. Where is this protective equipment and why are the people who need it most not being provided with it? If it's all there as we're being told why hasn't a lorry full of it not been dispatched to every medical facility in the land? It's relatively simple logistics. Isn't it? Is it not sorted? I'm shocked I tell thee. Not to be too political but I heard Matt Hancock with my own ears on Friday 20th March tell me that all hospitals will have adequate stocks of PPE by Sunday night, and everyone in social care would have their provisions by the Friday. When people say "now isn't the time for criticism", now is exactly the time as it hopefully shames the government into action instead of spin...... He was ill and delirious though so I'll let him off.
|
|
|
Post by xchpotter on Mar 31, 2020 16:45:38 GMT
Has their ever being a journalist more in love with the sound of his own voice than Robert-fucking-Peston? 3 questions in his annoying elongated, exaggerated style just makes you want to put your foot through the telly...... Cant stand him. Always likes to give the impression he is intellectually superior, knows more than anyone else and we should all stop what we are doing and listen to him because he is so bloody important.
|
|
|
Post by skip on Mar 31, 2020 16:47:59 GMT
Has their ever being a journalist more in love with the sound of his own voice than Robert-fucking-Peston? 3 questions in his annoying elongated, exaggerated style just makes you want to put your foot through the telly...... Cant stand him. Always likes to give the impression he is intellectually superior, knows more than anyone else and we should all stop what we are doing and listen to him because he is so bloody important. He is super smart, of that I have no doubt, but he does appear to have lost track of the job of the journalist which is to question not simply to paraphrase government politik speak.
|
|
|
Post by mtrstudent on Mar 31, 2020 16:49:09 GMT
|
|
|
Post by wagsastokie on Mar 31, 2020 16:50:28 GMT
Chilling UK fatality numbers in the last 24 hours. Government sending Micky Gove out to bat at 5pm. A tough gig it must be said. Donning his box, helmet and pads as I type I would imagine. Head up, chin back, 10 deep breaths... Well from what I've watched a very steady 35 not out at lunch Giving a slight very difficult chance to third slip
|
|
|
Post by Laughing Gravy on Mar 31, 2020 16:50:30 GMT
I agree entirely Spit, it is just a diversionary tactic from this government and its media friends to try to deflect from their own inaction up to March 16th when we got the woolly stop going the pub speech from Boris. Isn`t there a medical group in Oxford claiming that half of us have got immunity from this? Is this from that bug doing the rounds around xmas/new year with similar symptoms to covid19. That would explain the reluctance to test everyone.  I heard one expert say that previous infection with a corona virus family might actually make people more vulnerable to complications. Apparently this has been documented previously with the family of viruses. It would go some way to explaining why kids seem not to get complications and the elderly get more. He did not explain the mechanism how this would work. I read that somewhere mate as an explanation for why kids are less susceptible. Something to do with their lack of historical exposure to corona type viruses. I didn't understand the explanation but it sounded feasible anyway.
|
|
|
Post by Gods on Mar 31, 2020 17:09:06 GMT
Chilling UK fatality numbers in the last 24 hours. Government sending Micky Gove out to bat at 5pm. A tough gig it must be said. Donning his box, helmet and pads as I type I would imagine. Head up, chin back, 10 deep breaths... Well from what I've watched a very steady 35 not out at lunch Giving a slight very difficult chance to third slip He had a couple nip back at him off the seam and one referred to Hawkeye but he's still there, just!
|
|
|
Post by Seymour Beaver on Mar 31, 2020 17:09:45 GMT
I heard one expert say that previous infection with a corona virus family might actually make people more vulnerable to complications. Apparently this has been documented previously with the family of viruses. It would go some way to explaining why kids seem not to get complications and the elderly get more. He did not explain the mechanism how this would work. I read that somewhere mate as an explanation for why kids are less susceptible. Something to do with their lack of historical exposure to corona type viruses. I didn't understand the explanation but it sounded feasible anyway. As I understand it the common cold is from the Corona family - as such we've all been exposed - though stands to reason the older you are the more colds you will probably have had. Also runs counter to having the virus giving you antibodies against future infection. Eg Early prevention of Smallpox was by infecting people with less debilatating virus from the same family. Maybe this one's behaving differently and thereon lies the problem
|
|
|
Post by somersetstokie on Mar 31, 2020 17:12:02 GMT
Is it my imagination, or is the rate of posting on this thread slowing down?
|
|
|
Post by henry on Mar 31, 2020 17:20:04 GMT
Is it my imagination, or is the rate of posting on this thread slowing down? It's that fatigue Boris and co talked about.
|
|
|
Post by bigvern on Mar 31, 2020 17:20:09 GMT
Is it my imagination, or is the rate of posting on this thread slowing down? Green shoots?!
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 31, 2020 17:23:43 GMT
We need to ramp it up clearly.
|
|
|
Post by dutchstokie on Mar 31, 2020 17:33:11 GMT
The Dutch Prime Minister mark Rutte just addressed the nation with the following extension measures: Dutch controlled lockdown is extended from 06-04 up to including 28-04....this will be reviewed a week before on the 21st to see what and if new measures should be introduced. Social distancing is to be rigourously followed Schools are also t be closed up to this date with a review a week before. All Dutch medical staff are to begin to be immediately tested. www.dutchnews.nl/news/2020/03/the-netherlands-extends-anti-corona-measures-to-april-28-at-least/
|
|
|
Post by loosestools on Mar 31, 2020 17:44:51 GMT
Hangar at RAF Shawbury being converted for use as a Morgue as we speak. Reported shortage of body bags. Bloody terrifying this.
|
|
|
Post by berahinosgoals on Mar 31, 2020 17:56:32 GMT
I'm just being realistic paul, people have never been ordered to stay indoors in recent generations. I agree with Gods in that for all the staying indoors there will be repercussions, it's too strict imo to be realistic. I've seen a report this morning that the deaths to infections rate is lower then previously thought at 0.66% and influenza is 0.1%. Looking back I think I've allready had something similar earlier in the year, I'm not one for suffering with flu or even a cold for that matter but in either december or january I was ill with a fever and was coffing like a dog, it knocked me off my feet for a few days, couldnt sleep through coughing so hard. I think if the nation was tested the whole scare fest the media are using would be dialuted somewhat as true figures of infections v deaths would be known It is NOT a media scare fest BG, please watch this mate ... m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10157247589905885&id=511775884&scmts=scwspsdd&extid=tuK8RKzAWNBRrQXyIt is terrible but there are 2 big questions for me that need answering, one is how do we know exactly how lethal this thing is until whole populations have been tested? as in actual infections to death ratio, only those with severe symptoms seem to be getting tested those with the mild symptoms or flu symptoms since december haven't been tested, that number could be hundreds of thousands who have shaken it off without medical treatment in a few days. Also, are we set for more deaths than the flu causes per year? No doubt joe public will have to pay the bill from a 6 month paid quarantine though when it's the governments fault all along that the nhs has been severly underfunded for years, imo it's a disgrace how many icu beds we have for a supposedly mini financial superpower
|
|
|
Post by felonious on Mar 31, 2020 18:00:57 GMT
Is it my imagination, or is the rate of posting on this thread slowing down? What with Bayern in overdrive
|
|
|
Post by berahinosgoals on Mar 31, 2020 18:14:07 GMT
We also live in an age where chemical and nuclear weapons are a finger switch away from being deployed, yet 'we' as a prosperous hard working nation & population, a nation that sends 10's of billions of pounds out to foreign countries in aid every single year don't have appropriate medical equipment, PPE and ventilators to protect our own in an ever increasing world of tension.
But at least we have trident, trident is a great nuclear deterrent but in future germ warfare could come to the fore. Our men in the know about nations developing viruses should know that.
We are massively under prepared and the countries who we dont need to know this know only too well
|
|