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Post by foster on Mar 31, 2020 9:25:48 GMT
Because if you think Italy and Spain haven't been trying their best to get medical equipment by any means possible then you're a fucking idiot. Instead of making a bullshit and quite sickening comparison between the UK and two countries that had almost no prep time, how about comparing the UK to other EU countries (Germany for example) that have had a similar time to prepare as us. We are or have been told around three weeks behind Italy What would you suggest is the ammout of ppe and ventilators Italy could of sourced if they had three weeks more noticeIst case Italy 30/01/20 1st case UK 31/01/20 1st case Spain 01/02/20 It is very easy to knock the governments handling of this How the fuck am I supposed to know that. It's not my job. It's the job of the government. What is clear, is that (as you say) we are 3 weeks behind Italy in terms of like for like infection rates. Just because we picked up a first case at roughly the same as them does not mean we were in the same condition as them in terms of total number of those infected. This is what the 3 week period alludes to. To compare us to them and to state that we've handled it better by simply doing nothing is downright insulting.
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Post by henry on Mar 31, 2020 9:26:57 GMT
The horror thats going on in Italy and Spain and you try to point score by making out we would be in a better position if we were in the EU scheme. Why's that puddled ? don't you like others having a different view point ? It's you thats on a wind up. No. I just don't get that when you've said you'll get as many ventilators as you why you wouldn't join such a scheme. Heck, even if it's to flog some of ours to them if it's not as bad over here or we have enough. It's just a case of cutting your nose to spite your face, which I think is shocking. Other viewpoints are wonderful, when they aren't from a jingoistic pov. Good fucking grief
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Post by foster on Mar 31, 2020 9:29:33 GMT
Yeah and it's a puddled response. The horror thats going on in Italy and Spain and you try to point score by making out we would be in a better position if we were in the EU scheme. Why's that puddled ? don't you like others having a different view point ? It's you thats on a wind up. Says the guy who's twice already referenced people dying through doctors having to choose who to give ventilators to....and using it as a reason to a) criticise the EU scheme, and b) kiss Boris's ringpiece.
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Post by Gods on Mar 31, 2020 9:31:30 GMT
BTW is it me or is this thread going down hill fast? I think we have all been locked away for too long already:-)
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Post by foster on Mar 31, 2020 9:34:52 GMT
BTW is it me or is this thread going down hill fast? I think we have all been locked away for too long already:-) Clearly there's some pent up tension that needs to be released. I'm into week 3 of my lockdown - with girlfriend and 2 kids - so I think I've done well so far.
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Mar 31, 2020 9:45:52 GMT
Labour MP tweets about following Government guidance, saying police will enforce. 4 days later, said MP breaks that advice, drives 150 miles each way to see millionaire parents on birthday takes chair, tables and cake, MP tweets about it, police respond to that tweet (they haven't actually gone to the scene) telling him it wasn't essential travel. Sheik & co are giving the police grief for being heavy handed, whilst also saying Jack Grealish is a knob for breaking the rules You couldn't make this shit up really could you ? What do you make of Sumption's comments once you get over your Kinnock obsession? What I make of it is that you appear to have cherry picked the part of the interview where he criticised the police. You omit the bit where he states that the Government response to the Coronavirus has been a huge over reaction to public and media hysteria. He doesn't actually say the words but he appears to be advocating the herd immunity theory which would have in effect sacrificed of 100's of 1000 of the old and vulnerable but would have meant the younger and fitter would have gained immunity and the economy survived. A strategy the Government ditched following huge criticism of the potential death toll. I assume you are in full agreement with the views of Lord Sumption on this as well are you?
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Post by dutchstokie on Mar 31, 2020 9:47:12 GMT
BTW is it me or is this thread going down hill fast? I think we have all been locked away for too long already:-) Clearly there's some pent up tension that needs to be released. I'm into week 3 of my lockdown - with girlfriend and 2 kids - so I think I've done well so far. Im just in the middle of building a Revell model kit of a Heinkel H111 Bomber ! Brining back the kid in me
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 31, 2020 9:49:07 GMT
What do you want them to do, just pretend that there isn't a virus out there that can kill you? They can't just magic it away, what do you want them to do? I'm just being realistic paul, people have never been ordered to stay indoors in recent generations. I agree with Gods in that for all the staying indoors there will be repercussions, it's too strict imo to be realistic. I've seen a report this morning that the deaths to infections rate is lower then previously thought at 0.66% and influenza is 0.1%. Looking back I think I've allready had something similar earlier in the year, I'm not one for suffering with flu or even a cold for that matter but in either december or january I was ill with a fever and was coffing like a dog, it knocked me off my feet for a few days, couldnt sleep through coughing so hard. I think if the nation was tested the whole scare fest the media are using would be dialuted somewhat as true figures of infections v deaths would be known It is NOT a media scare fest BG, please watch this mate ... m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10157247589905885&id=511775884&scmts=scwspsdd&extid=tuK8RKzAWNBRrQXy
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Mar 31, 2020 9:49:26 GMT
BTW is it me or is this thread going down hill fast? I think we have all been locked away for too long already:-) It went downhill a long time ago the second it was party politicised.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Mar 31, 2020 9:53:55 GMT
BTW is it me or is this thread going down hill fast? I think we have all been locked away for too long already:-) I suppose we have to distinguish between what is useful and supportive and what degenerates into the usual pointless bickering. The EE board has been good for getting insights from different countries/ situations and there have been some very informative posters and some giving early information.
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Post by somersetstokie on Mar 31, 2020 9:56:21 GMT
News is starting to emerge that might show that there is a focused policy being operated by the Government in trying to tackle the health crisis. At an early point in the pandemic it became known that major engineering companies were being invited to do work that might lead to production of additional and vital patient ventilators. Several big names were involved but it went quiet for a while until it apparently emerged that Dyson was the key player in the programme and was ready to go into production on their version.
Many posters seemed to feel that local companies such as Rolls Royce and JCB had been overlooked in the selection process and were no longer involved in the programme. However it seems that there is a plan. It now appears likely that JCB will make housing units for the new Dyson ventilators, and the accelerated research and development effort is being shared and coordinated between the important players.
This is very good news, and it suggests that amidst the confusion of measures and countermeasures, some players, and significant ones at that, might be getting their act together in a big way in an effort to enure that the country gets through this emergency. Well done to all who are putting in the commitment to make the Government policies work.
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Post by ColonelMustard on Mar 31, 2020 9:59:58 GMT
Staying in is not about exactly how deadly this thing is to the individual. We are not supposed to be staying in because we fear the virus ourselves. Its all about the ability of the health services to cope with the numbers of acute cases. That is when the death rate will rise, when there are not enough ventilators. This is a clunky concept for an atomised and highly individualistic culture, such as we are now, to retain, but it's none the less true. I think categorising the loss of people’s businesses, jobs, children’s education, mental health, isolation for the vulnerable/elderly and removing the very basic of social behaviour into the selfish culture that you perceive people to have is way off the mark. What we need to establish is whether the UK mortality rate has significantly increased since this outbreak went to press or if it hadn’t received the global attention and media whitewash that it has had, would it be acknowledged as a slight increase in statistics for seasonal viruses at this time of year? Once the Nightingale facilities have been established and are operational, this will alleviate the pressure on local hospitals and provide the buffer that is required to get us out of this dormant state and put is in a better position to consolidate our strategy and support other nations as required. For the critical amongst us, who can’t wait to twist the knife into the government that are protecting us whilst maintaining our dignity and self worth, spare a thought for the people in India who have gone into extreme lockdown with 4 hours notice. If the best you can do is mock the charisma of our Foreign Secretary then we are in a pretty good place nationally but personally speaking you’re a fucking embarrassment. Well I've no idea what the fuck you are on about. For what it's worth my own business has been closed for the last 9 days which is more than double what its normally closed in a whole year. It's never been closed more than 3 days in a row in ten years. I have no idea when it will open or if it will survive to the end of this thing. The business has contributed a significant amount of money to the countries coffers over the years I've never gone down the path of avoiding as much tax as possible, be it through dividends or whatever other means. Distress and frustration are natural in a situation such as this. I was actually implying that pushing against the good of all for the plight of yourself is understable considering the changes in our society in the last 30 years. It still doesnt make it right though. As for the drivel and insults at the end, I've no idea what the fuck you are talking about old chap. But its far from disproving any points Ive made.
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Post by wagsastokie on Mar 31, 2020 10:00:39 GMT
We are or have been told around three weeks behind Italy What would you suggest is the ammout of ppe and ventilators Italy could of sourced if they had three weeks more noticeIst case Italy 30/01/20 1st case UK 31/01/20 1st case Spain 01/02/20 It is very easy to knock the governments handling of this How the fuck am I supposed to know that. It's not my job. It's the job of the government. What is clear, is that (as you say) we are 3 weeks behind Italy in terms of like for like infection rates. Just because we picked up a first case at roughly the same as them does not mean we were in the same condition as them in terms of total number of those infected. This is what the 3 week period alludes to. To compare us to them and to state that we've handled it better by simply doing nothing is downright insulting. Maybe we have done stuff no one is aware of No one is suggesting Italy is not doing its best to solve this crisis But what some of us, are saying this government has handled this crisis better than some give it credit for Or maybe not the truth will out at the end Untill then the constant sniping at the government often for political reasons does no one any good
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Post by OldStokie on Mar 31, 2020 10:02:43 GMT
I'm thinking of taking up geology and lapidary. Self-isolating does have some benefits. Been watching countless episodes of some mad Ozzies digging for opals. Great stuff when they come across a lovely seam. I can also recommend watching the series of the mad buggers searching for gold. I'll have to get mar mate Joe in Oz to sponsor me and I'll be off there when this lot is over. It would be a great life being a gold or opal hunter. All you need is an old VW Camper, a metal detector and a good stock of tinnies and you're away. There's brown snakes there but no Coronavirus.
This is one of my favourite episodes.
OS.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Mar 31, 2020 10:03:18 GMT
BTW is it me or is this thread going down hill fast? I think we have all been locked away for too long already:-) It went downhill a long time ago the second it was party politicised. You can't really moan your bag off about it becoming Party Politicised when the Government themselves are now using the 5pm updates as Party Political Broadcasts.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 31, 2020 10:06:41 GMT
I'm thinking of taking up geology and lapidary. Self-isolating does have some benefits. Been watching countless episodes of some mad Ozzies digging for opals. Great stuff when they come across a lovely seam. I can also recommend watching the series of the mad buggers searching for gold. I'll have to get mar mate Joe in Oz to sponsor me and I'll be off there when this lot is over. It would be a great life being a gold or opal hunter. All you need is an old VW Camper, a metal detector and a good stock of tinnies and you're away. There's brown snakes there but no Coronavirus. This is one of my favourite episodes. OS. Do you watch Aussie gold hunters? Another marvellous televisual spectacle. Just makes me want to go and do it until I realise I can't cope with the UK when it gets about 23 degrees.
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Post by somersetstokie on Mar 31, 2020 10:08:16 GMT
Wagsa: Quote.
"Maybe we have done stuff no one is aware of No one is suggesting Italy is not doing its best to solve this crisis
But what some of us, are saying this government has handled this crisis better than some give it credit for
Or maybe not the truth will out at the end
Untill then the constant sniping at the government often for political reasons does no one any good"
As in my post above about JCB, it seems that after all there might be some level of planning and organisation going on behind the scenes, and the Government, combined with industry and trade representatives, actually do know what they are doing.
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Post by ColonelMustard on Mar 31, 2020 10:08:45 GMT
It went downhill a long time ago the second it was party politicised. You can't really moan your bag off about it becoming Party Politicised when the Government themselves are now using the 5pm updates as Party Political Broadcasts. Exactly, the government, like Trump, has one eye on popularity at all times, it's just a lot cleverer about it. The attempts to turn us against eachother while delegitimise criticism of government are more authoritarian than anything else in this.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2020 10:09:10 GMT
BTW is it me or is this thread going down hill fast? I think we have all been locked away for too long already:-) It went downhill a long time ago the second it was party politicised. Sorry fella, but whilst it shouldn't be party politicised per se, I'm sick of this narrative that the government can't be criticised because it's unprecedented times. And whilst you've still got Tory politicians responding to criticism about austerity and the knock on effect it has had on the Coronavirus crisis by talking about "the situation we inherited" then they can't have it both ways. Everything is political and always will be......
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Mar 31, 2020 10:18:29 GMT
It went downhill a long time ago the second it was party politicised. You can't really moan your bag off about it becoming Party Politicised when the Government themselves are now using the 5pm updates as Party Political Broadcasts. Not the point.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 31, 2020 10:20:45 GMT
You can't really moan your bag off about it becoming Party Politicised when the Government themselves are now using the 5pm updates as Party Political Broadcasts. Not the point. Why not? This whole thing is political. Their decision not to be in the EU thing - political, herd immunity - political, their economic packages - political. They're not daft.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 31, 2020 10:24:24 GMT
Because if you think Italy and Spain haven't been trying their best to get medical equipment by any means possible then you're a fucking idiot. Instead of making a bullshit and quite sickening comparison between the UK and two countries that had almost no prep time, how about comparing the UK to other EU countries (Germany for example) that have had a similar time to prepare as us. We are or have been told around three weeks behind Italy What would you suggest is the ammout of ppe and ventilators Italy could of sourced if they had three weeks more notice Ist case Italy 30/01/20 1st case UK 31/01/20 1st case Spain 01/02/20 It is very easy to knock the governments handling of this I think we need to be very careful about the use of these dates for 'first' cases. The first British case was indeed on 31/01/20 but he caught it in Italy, indeed we didn't have our first domestic case until the 28th February, hence why we seem to have been repeatedly been behind Italy by about 3 to 4 weeks. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51683428And it should also be noted that compared with the rest of Europe, the UK has one of the lowest rates of ICU beds per head, with Italy having twice as many. www.ft.com/content/effd0dae-655f-11ea-b3f3-fe4680ea68b5
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Mar 31, 2020 10:26:40 GMT
It went downhill a long time ago the second it was party politicised. Sorry fella, but whilst it shouldn't be party politicised per se, I'm sick of this narrative that the government can't be criticised because it's unprecedented times. And whilst you've still got Tory politicians responding to criticism about austerity and the knock on effect it has had on the Coronavirus crisis by talking about "the situation we inherited" then they can't have it both ways. Everything is political and always will be...... Mate don't get me wrong I fully agree it is massively political And find me anywhere I've said the Government shouldn't be criticised. I myself am a massive critic of them. My point was that this thread became PARTY politicised. Momo seems to have taken it as a comment directed at him. It was in part but it was also aimed at the right wing loons on this site who seem equally incapable of having a discussion about anything without defending their political party or slagging off the 'other side' when in reality we should be all in this together and leave the party politics to sort itself out when it's over.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2020 10:26:48 GMT
Big numbers for Belgium today.
Almost 200 dead.
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Post by mrcoke on Mar 31, 2020 10:31:12 GMT
News is starting to emerge that might show that there is a focused policy being operated by the Government in trying to tackle the health crisis. At an early point in the pandemic it became known that major engineering companies were being invited to do work that might lead to production of additional and vital patient ventilators. Several big names were involved but it went quiet for a while until it apparently emerged that Dyson was the key player in the programme and was ready to go into production on their version. Many posters seemed to feel that local companies such as Rolls Royce and JCB had been overlooked in the selection process and were no longer involved in the programme. However it seems that there is a plan. It now appears likely that JCB will make housing units for the new Dyson ventilators, and the accelerated research and development effort is being shared and coordinated between the important players. This is very good news, and it suggests that amidst the confusion of measures and countermeasures, some players, and significant ones at that, might be getting their act together in a big way in an effort to enure that the country gets through this emergency. Well done to all who are putting in the commitment to make the Government policies work. Very similar in many ways to the collaboration between companies steered by government during the world wars. I used to be a member of a business organisation that was set up during WWI (no I'm not that old) to promote the efficiency of that industrial sector as part of the war effort. Regarding this thread going downhill, there seem to be a number of people who don't realise we have a common enemy - the virus, and we all need to unite to defeat it, not fallout with each other. There is nothing wrong with constructive debate, but some of the bickering, and whinging is sickening. Personally I think the government has done reasonably well under the circumstances. Had they clamped down sooner to compel self isolation and shut businesses and entertainment down, I think there is a good chance there would have been rioting like the early Thatcher years, when she hit the country hard with moneterism. Maybe be some people have forgotten about the rioting in Bristol, Toxteth, etc. They were possibly right to delay action till most of the public realized how serious the threat is, and therefore be more amenable to isolating themselves and suffering financially. There are some of course who still don't care about others in society and continue to behave irresponsibly, so the police must police, that's their job.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2020 10:32:54 GMT
Sorry fella, but whilst it shouldn't be party politicised per se, I'm sick of this narrative that the government can't be criticised because it's unprecedented times. And whilst you've still got Tory politicians responding to criticism about austerity and the knock on effect it has had on the Coronavirus crisis by talking about "the situation we inherited" then they can't have it both ways. Everything is political and always will be...... Mate don't get me wrong I fully agree it is massively political And find me anywhere I've said the Government shouldn't be criticised. I myself am a massive critic of them. My point was that this thread became PARTY politicised. Momo seems to have taken it as a comment directed at him. It was in part but it was also aimed at the right wing loons on this site who seem equally incapable of having a discussion about anything without defending their political party or slagging off the 'other side' when in reality we should be all in this together and leave the party politics to sort itself out when it's over. I was making a general point sorry mate not aimed at you directly. Lets be frank though, when it comes to a Tory government we have never been, nor will we ever be "in this together"
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Post by crapslinger on Mar 31, 2020 10:34:29 GMT
How the fuck am I supposed to know that. It's not my job. It's the job of the government. What is clear, is that (as you say) we are 3 weeks behind Italy in terms of like for like infection rates. Just because we picked up a first case at roughly the same as them does not mean we were in the same condition as them in terms of total number of those infected. This is what the 3 week period alludes to. To compare us to them and to state that we've handled it better by simply doing nothing is downright insulting. Maybe we have done stuff no one is aware of No one is suggesting Italy is not doing its best to solve this crisis But what some of us, are saying this government has handled this crisis better than some give it credit for Or maybe not the truth will out at the end Untill then the constant sniping at the government often for political reasons does no one any good Why anyone who lives in Belgium but slags of the UK government is beyond comprehension, the truth about the handling of this crisis by the government will come out, the truth is that this pandemic has been thrust upon the World by a government who covered it up for over a month, any finger pointing should be at the country of origin the PRC and it's regime.
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Mar 31, 2020 10:35:56 GMT
I'm thinking of taking up geology and lapidary. Self-isolating does have some benefits. Been watching countless episodes of some mad Ozzies digging for opals. Great stuff when they come across a lovely seam. I can also recommend watching the series of the mad buggers searching for gold. I'll have to get mar mate Joe in Oz to sponsor me and I'll be off there when this lot is over. It would be a great life being a gold or opal hunter. All you need is an old VW Camper, a metal detector and a good stock of tinnies and you're away. There's brown snakes there but no Coronavirus. This is one of my favourite episodes. OS. Joe doesn't like people staying on his sofa! Already destroyed a potential superstars football career!
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Mar 31, 2020 10:42:29 GMT
Why not? This whole thing is political. Their decision not to be in the EU thing - political, herd immunity - political, their economic packages - political. They're not daft. And you too are missing the point. I suspect deliberately because you're not daft either. I've never said this isn't a political issue nor that the Government is above criticism. But it is the partisan battle lines on this thread which continually spoil what is an interesting and often quite informative read. It's frankly a bit pathetic and no one who engages in it comes out of it in a good light whichever side of the political divide you fall on.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 31, 2020 10:44:06 GMT
Why not? This whole thing is political. Their decision not to be in the EU thing - political, herd immunity - political, their economic packages - political. They're not daft. And you too are missing the point. I suspect deliberately because you're not daft either. I've never said this isn't a political issue nor that the Government is above criticism. But it is the partisan battle lines on this thread which continually spoil what is an interesting and often quite informative read. It's frankly a bit pathetic and no one who engages in it comes out of it in a good light whichever side of the political divide you fall on. And I disagree tbh. It's part of this whole pandemic and needs discussing.
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