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Post by sheikhmomo on Mar 24, 2020 13:23:50 GMT
Sadly only UBI will solve this but they don't seem willing to do it. They shat on renters yesterday and nothing for self employed and the GIG today. It's all unravelling.
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Post by march4 on Mar 24, 2020 13:24:14 GMT
No, didn't get tested, they are only testing if you go to hospital or rich enough to pay £375, just advised to stay at home, ride it through unless it got really bad, which it didn't thankfully. There's got to be thousands out there who arent on the numbers. The reckon about x10 or x15 to get to the real UK number don't they? On that basis we'd be running at around 75k, about the size of N-U-L to put that in some perspective. Another way to think of it is 650,000 folks will die in the UK this year as they do each year. I guess it doesn't take much extra pressure to tip the NHS over the edge when beds are already at capacity most of the time with a myriad of other diseases. What are we doing here, buying time I guess, fkatten the initial peak let the brakes off and on over the next 2 years and hope some immunity builds up. Any vaccine will surely be late next year and for the vulnerable only. As always in times of emergency, human ingenuity comes to the fore. I’ve just been reading about an army doctor in Wales who has come up with a redesigned ventilator that is easier to make. It won’t work for the most seriously Ill but he has designed it to stop folk becoming so ill. The patient can administer it themselves to help hospital staff. And again in the UK a company had designed a snood to replace face masks. They are already starting to mass produce them and they are more comfortable and safer than face masks. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 24, 2020 13:24:34 GMT
We are following exactly the same trajectory as Italy, yet in Sth. Korea, they are still in double figures. Anyone got the updated version of this chart including the last few days? I think I've done this right. The 23rd March for us equates to the 9th March on there. Italy 463 UK 335 |
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Mar 24, 2020 13:27:40 GMT
well that's me just coming out of it, not bad enough to be hospitalised but knocks you for a while, then comes back for a 2nd wave, been in isolation for 6 days now, and getting bored, just when I thought there'd be freedom, another 3 weeks  Were you tested formally and diagnosed as it will be interesting to hear the experience of a confirmed case. If you were, does that make you a super user with potentially increased immunity now you have endured it? Again I’m interested as I had read bits about super users being re introduced into care and nursing roles as they can’t pass it on and are unlikely to be re infected....could be rubbish of course. Isn't that the point that we're all going to have to get 'a bit of it' at some point? - either by infection or vaccination. A lockdown can be employed as a contagion supressant temporarily. At some point we will have to emerge blinking in the daylight and unless there is a means of vaccination or we're all geofenced so we can't get in 2 metres of anyone without getting an electric shock then I presume it will flare up again. If the NHS is such that it can only take - say - 1000 new cases a day then it's going to take something like 20 years to work through the 10% of the population that are most at risk. Meanwhile the rest of us will be dying of other things we would normally be getting over through lack of access to medical care. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2020 13:28:45 GMT
Papers reporting the tube drivers are discussing closing the network themselves as they are worried by the volume of passengers. I shouldn't laugh but the government have totally lost control they never had and they've allowed the tail to wag the dog. Pathetic isn't the word. Johnson should resign after this. After last night's pathetic confusion, I'm surprised he's still in a job. |
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Post by FullerMagic on Mar 24, 2020 13:30:20 GMT
Dutch numbers are scary
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Post by stokeson on Mar 24, 2020 13:31:18 GMT
Were you tested formally and diagnosed as it will be interesting to hear the experience of a confirmed case. If you were, does that make you a super user with potentially increased immunity now you have endured it? Again I’m interested as I had read bits about super users being re introduced into care and nursing roles as they can’t pass it on and are unlikely to be re infected....could be rubbish of course. Isn't that the point that we're all going to have to get 'a bit of it' at some point? - either by infection or vaccination. A lockdown can be employed as a contagion supressant temporarily. At some point we will have to emerge blinking in the daylight and unless there is a means of vaccination or we're all geofenced so we can't get in 2 metres of anyone without getting an electric shock then I presume it will flare up again. If the NHS is such that it can only take - say - 1000 new cases a day then it's going to take something like 20 years to work through the 10% of the population that are most at risk. Meanwhile the rest of us will be dying of other things we would normally be getting over through lack of access to medical care. Bleak isnt a big enough word.. |
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Post by Foster on Mar 24, 2020 13:33:21 GMT
We are following exactly the same trajectory as Italy, yet in Sth. Korea, they are still in double figures. Anyone got the updated version of this chart including the last few days? Italy started their lockdowns around the 21st Feb.. so in line with the two week differential (if you can consider what we have now as a lockdown). Based on that we can probably expect to keep up with the same trajectory. However, if that's the case then it looks infinitely worse on our government as we've had a couple of weeks more to prepare, we have less elderly (as a %), we don't culturally live so close or with our family members, and we're basically an Island so restricting movement is much easier than it is for them. Effectively we would have squandered 2 weeks that could have been used to enforce stricter lockdown measures. 2 weeks that unfortunately the Italians did not have. Edit: Sorry, completely wrong there with the 2 weeks.. we've had much longer (more like 4 weeks) to enforce lock down procedures. |
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Post by musik on Mar 24, 2020 13:35:46 GMT
QUESTION: In the stats worldwide, do they only count tested persons?
Yes, there can be twenty, thirty times more sick, infected persons out there than appear in the stats. Finland for instance count on that.
But at the same that, it seems very difficult to diagnose it on the phone - which is the help we often get here, since the symptoms are often similar to a flu or a cold.
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Mar 24, 2020 13:36:13 GMT
Sadly only UBI will solve this but they don't seem willing to do it. They shat on renters yesterday and nothing for self employed and the GIG today. It's all unravelling. There is a Coronavirus Bill currently going through Parliament a section of which deals with the provision of Statutory Pay for the self employed. I'm technically incapable of doing links but go on www.parliament.uk and look at publications. It will provide 80% pay or £2,917 pm whichever is the lowest for s/e or freelancers. Unless my mate is winding me up and sent me a fake text. PS I missed you too much.  |
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Post by march4 on Mar 24, 2020 13:37:23 GMT
Papers reporting the tube drivers are discussing closing the network themselves as they are worried by the volume of passengers. I shouldn't laugh but the government have totally lost control they never had and they've allowed the tail to wag the dog. Pathetic isn't the word. Johnson should resign after this. After last night's pathetic confusion, I'm surprised he's still in a job. Polls showing 93% approval. Opinion poll putting Tories up to mid 50%s. Rapidly heading past Blair’s figures as the most popular PM ever. A crisis brings support for leadership. In the US Trump’s approval ratings are also up. It’s a funny old world, but this crisis will cement Boris as PM for over a decade if he wishes. |
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Post by thebet365 on Mar 24, 2020 13:39:51 GMT
QUESTION: In the stats worldwide, do they only count tested persons? Yes, there can be twenty, thirty times more sick, infected persons out there than appear in the stats. Finland for instance count on that. But at the same that, it seems very difficult to diagnose it on the phone - which is the help we often get here, since the symptoms are often similar to a flu or a cold. Yes, confirmed cases will be people that have been swabbed and tested positive. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2020 13:40:01 GMT
I shouldn't laugh but the government have totally lost control they never had and they've allowed the tail to wag the dog. Pathetic isn't the word. Johnson should resign after this. After last night's pathetic confusion, I'm surprised he's still in a job. Polls showing 93% approval. Opinion poll putting Tories up to mid 50%s. Rapidly heading past Blair’s figures as the most popular PM ever. A crisis brings support for leadership. In the US Trump’s approval ratings are also up. It’s a funny old world, but this crisis will cement Boris as PM for over a decade if he wishes. It's your post and photos of torched delivery vans that make me realise that this country has lost it. How Boris can come out of this with any credit is beyond me. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 24, 2020 13:41:11 GMT
I shouldn't laugh but the government have totally lost control they never had and they've allowed the tail to wag the dog. Pathetic isn't the word. Johnson should resign after this. After last night's pathetic confusion, I'm surprised he's still in a job. Polls showing 93% approval. Opinion poll putting Tories up to mid 50%s. Rapidly heading past Blair’s figures as the most popular PM ever. A crisis brings support for leadership. In the US Trump’s approval ratings are also up. It’s a funny old world, but this crisis will cement Boris as PM for over a decade if he wishes. Trump has been an unmitigated disaster. |
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Post by thebet365 on Mar 24, 2020 13:41:53 GMT
Sadly only UBI will solve this but they don't seem willing to do it. They shat on renters yesterday and nothing for self employed and the GIG today. It's all unravelling. There is a Coronavirus Bill currently going through Parliament a section of which deals with the provision of Statutory Pay for the self employed. I'm technically incapable of doing links but go on www.parliament.uk and look at publications. It will provide 80% pay or £2,917 pm whichever is the lowest for s/e or freelancers. Unless my mate is winding me up and sent me a fake text. PS I missed you too much. I've put a picture of it on further up, it's not fake. |
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Post by Foster on Mar 24, 2020 13:43:22 GMT
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Mar 24, 2020 13:43:46 GMT
The reckon about x10 or x15 to get to the real UK number don't they? On that basis we'd be running at around 75k, about the size of N-U-L to put that in some perspective. Another way to think of it is 650,000 folks will die in the UK this year as they do each year. I guess it doesn't take much extra pressure to tip the NHS over the edge when beds are already at capacity most of the time with a myriad of other diseases. What are we doing here, buying time I guess, fkatten the initial peak let the brakes off and on over the next 2 years and hope some immunity builds up. Any vaccine will surely be late next year and for the vulnerable only. As always in times of emergency, human ingenuity comes to the fore. I’ve just been reading about an army doctor in Wales who has come up with a redesigned ventilator that is easier to make. It won’t work for the most seriously Ill but he has designed it to stop folk becoming so ill. The patient can administer it themselves to help hospital staff. And again in the UK a company had designed a snood to replace face masks. They are already starting to mass produce them and they are more comfortable and safer than face masks. I saw on the Midlands news that the 'GTech Air Ram' designer has built a simple ventilator that works on hydraulics of the oxygen supply it delivers so doesn't require electricity to run it so is portable. Bloody brilliant some of these wallahs. If it comes off I know who's the next vacuum I'll be buying will be. |
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Post by Veritas on Mar 24, 2020 13:43:52 GMT
Polls showing 93% approval. Opinion poll putting Tories up to mid 50%s. Rapidly heading past Blair’s figures as the most popular PM ever. A crisis brings support for leadership. In the US Trump’s approval ratings are also up. It’s a funny old world, but this crisis will cement Boris as PM for over a decade if he wishes. Trump has been an unmitigated disaster. But somehow keeps his support, didn't he say something along the lines of I could shoot someone on 5th Avenue and my support would still support me. |
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Mar 24, 2020 13:44:21 GMT
No, didn't get tested, they are only testing if you go to hospital or rich enough to pay £375, just advised to stay at home, ride it through unless it got really bad, which it didn't thankfully. There's got to be thousands out there who arent on the numbers. The reckon about x10 or x15 to get to the real UK number don't they? On that basis we'd be running at around 75k, about the size of N-U-L to put that in some perspective. Another way to think of it is 650,000 folks will die in the UK this year as they do each year. I guess it doesn't take much extra pressure to tip the NHS over the edge when beds are already at capacity most of the time with a myriad of other diseases. What are we doing here, buying time I guess, fkatten the initial peak let the brakes off and on over the next 2 years and hope some immunity builds up. Any vaccine will surely be late next year and for the vulnerable only. Do you think they have thought that far ahead or is this simply a response to 'we don't want to go like Italy and Spain'? I've heard and read various pieces about the govt strategy over just the past two weeks. We've had 'herd immunity' which now seems to have been binned. I've seen a 'snake' curve which describes what you are talking about now and would therefore be a 2-3 year project, and I've also heard Vallence say we are working to a single summer peak when 95percent of all cases would be in a 14 week period. However I think all of that is second place to be seen to be doing something decisive NOW. All the while propping up the economy indefinity with handouts is utterly unsustainable. As is giving the entire health service over to a single oroblem (however big that may be) Not saying I've got the answer but I'm bloody sure no bugger else has either. |
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Mar 24, 2020 13:46:22 GMT
There is a Coronavirus Bill currently going through Parliament a section of which deals with the provision of Statutory Pay for the self employed. I'm technically incapable of doing links but go on www.parliament.uk and look at publications. It will provide 80% pay or £2,917 pm whichever is the lowest for s/e or freelancers. Unless my mate is winding me up and sent me a fake text. PS I missed you too much. I've put a picture of it on further up, it's not fake. Sorry mate I flounced off for a bit. Blame Momo.  Then I couldn't be arsed to catch up. |
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Post by nutterpotter on Mar 24, 2020 13:47:53 GMT
We are following exactly the same trajectory as Italy, yet in Sth. Korea, they are still in double figures. Anyone got the updated version of this chart including the last few days? Is it 463 (Italy) vs 335 (UK)? |
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Post by zerps on Mar 24, 2020 13:50:00 GMT
I shouldn't laugh but the government have totally lost control they never had and they've allowed the tail to wag the dog. Pathetic isn't the word. Johnson should resign after this. After last night's pathetic confusion, I'm surprised he's still in a job. Polls showing 93% approval. Opinion poll putting Tories up to mid 50%s. Rapidly heading past Blair’s figures as the most popular PM ever. A crisis brings support for leadership. In the US Trump’s approval ratings are also up. It’s a funny old world, but this crisis will cement Boris as PM for over a decade if he wishes. Great post 😁 |
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Post by dutchstokie on Mar 24, 2020 13:55:30 GMT
Absolutley mate....the streets are absolutely deserted where I live and roads are completely empty. |
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Post by stiggerstackle on Mar 24, 2020 13:57:07 GMT
Polls showing 93% approval. Opinion poll putting Tories up to mid 50%s. Rapidly heading past Blair’s figures as the most popular PM ever. A crisis brings support for leadership. In the US Trump’s approval ratings are also up. It’s a funny old world, but this crisis will cement Boris as PM for over a decade if he wishes. It's your post and photos of torched delivery vans that make me realise that this country has lost it. How Boris can come out of this with any credit is beyond me. How on earth can Boris or the government be held accountable for the utter fuckwittery being displayed by utter morons?!? I'm not talking about the lack of clarity over jobs etc - but the antisocial criminal behaviour that you are referring to? Do people not have minds of their own anymore?!? |
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Post by sheikhmomo on Mar 24, 2020 13:57:40 GMT
I've put a picture of it on further up, it's not fake. Sorry mate I flounced off for a bit. Blame Momo. Then I couldn't be arsed to catch up. Can't see what was posted above but this is what Sunak said literally just now in Parliament.
"This is what Rishi Sunak, the chancellor, told MPs a few minutes ago about why constructing a scheme to protect the self-employed who are losing work because of the coronavirus crisis was so complicated. He said it may require a brand new system. He explained:
We’re looking at pace at what support can be provided.
The fact is that [the 5m group] that we’re dealing with contains such a wide variety of different people where we don’t have the ability to target support - that’s the challenge that we have in designing something that gets to the people that we want it to help whilst at the same time being affordable, not having to benefit absolutely everybody.
That is proving to be problematic, but we are hard at work on it.
In terms of delivery, it is almost certainly going to be the case that we would have to build another brand new system to deliver any support.
I think it’s right, and I’m sure honourable members on both sides of this house would agree, that in terms of prioritising system design, the scheme we have set up for 90% of the workforce that is employed should be delivered first and quickly, and that is what we have committed to do, ideally by the end of April" Chief Secretary to the Treasury Stephen Barclay said:
We know many self-employed people are in distress but we are working urgently to address this problem, and I say to the self-employed, we have not forgotten you, help is coming.
But the policy and delivery is complex and we cannot and should not rush to announce a scheme that begs more questions than it answers . There is nothing currently in place for them. Welcome back btw  |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 24, 2020 13:59:53 GMT
Trump has been an unmitigated disaster. But somehow keeps his support, didn't he say something along the lines of I could shoot someone on 5th Avenue and my support would still support me. Probably! I try to ignore what he says tbh. The more I look at America, the more fucked up of a nation it becomes. I just don't get why anyone would want to be like that. |
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Mar 24, 2020 14:01:20 GMT
All of this made me wonder if we'll emerge from this a more compassionate and understanding.
In 2017 10 million people around the world became sick from an infectious respiratory disease that is carried by a quarter of the world's population. As a result of this 1.3 million people died. That's 3,561 every day, or 148 EVERY HOUR. It too kills the elderly and vulnerable but is not averse to killing a few young uns whilst it's out there
That disease is Tuberculosis, which is both preventable and treatable and msny of those deaths are medically avoidable.
TB is killing as many today as it was in 2017 and because it predominantly affects sub saharan Africa and the asian subcontinent very few in the West give it a second thought.
Now Covid 19 is a First World problem we're getting to walk a few steps in their shoes for a few months
Will we think of that when all this is over - or will we just go back to dribbling in about house prices, annual rail fare increases, footballers tattoos, and where Jake and Freya are hoping to go for their Gap Year??
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Post by xchpotter on Mar 24, 2020 14:02:35 GMT
Were you tested formally and diagnosed as it will be interesting to hear the experience of a confirmed case. If you were, does that make you a super user with potentially increased immunity now you have endured it? Again I’m interested as I had read bits about super users being re introduced into care and nursing roles as they can’t pass it on and are unlikely to be re infected....could be rubbish of course. No, didn't get tested, they are only testing if you go to hospital or rich enough to pay £375, just advised to stay at home, ride it through unless it got really bad, which it didn't thankfully. There's got to be thousands out there who arent on the numbers. The lack of data through confirmed testing will always leave the full picture incomplete. I get why they aren’t testing with resources and capacity being the issue, but there might be something in that data that might offer a few more answers around spread and mitigation. Whilst I’m sure that out of those not tested there will be many with CV, there will be many others who don’t....we just won’t know without a test and therefore the response has got to be made on working assumptions and guesstimating which is a little worrying to say the least. |
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Post by PotterLog on Mar 24, 2020 14:05:16 GMT
What happens if your boss sacks you? Employment Tribunal if the adverse publicity does work first Employment tribunal? Claiming what? The government advice is to go to work... |
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Mar 24, 2020 14:05:24 GMT
Sorry mate I flounced off for a bit. Blame Momo. Then I couldn't be arsed to catch up. Can't see what was posted above but this is what Sunak said literally just now in Parliament.
"This is what Rishi Sunak, the chancellor, told MPs a few minutes ago about why constructing a scheme to protect the self-employed who are losing work because of the coronavirus crisis was so complicated. He said it may require a brand new system. He explained:
We’re looking at pace at what support can be provided.
The fact is that [the 5m group] that we’re dealing with contains such a wide variety of different people where we don’t have the ability to target support - that’s the challenge that we have in designing something that gets to the people that we want it to help whilst at the same time being affordable, not having to benefit absolutely everybody.
That is proving to be problematic, but we are hard at work on it.
In terms of delivery, it is almost certainly going to be the case that we would have to build another brand new system to deliver any support.
I think it’s right, and I’m sure honourable members on both sides of this house would agree, that in terms of prioritising system design, the scheme we have set up for 90% of the workforce that is employed should be delivered first and quickly, and that is what we have committed to do, ideally by the end of April" Chief Secretary to the Treasury Stephen Barclay said:
We know many self-employed people are in distress but we are working urgently to address this problem, and I say to the self-employed, we have not forgotten you, help is coming.
But the policy and delivery is complex and we cannot and should not rush to announce a scheme that begs more questions than it answers . There is nothing currently in place for them. Welcome back btw If you can't see it on the Parliamentary website just look at the attachment Bet365 posted 5 hours ago. It's quite specific. Whatever he's said it's there in black and white. |
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