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Post by zerps on Mar 23, 2020 13:47:33 GMT
Anyone using the coronavirus as a political weapon because “their” party were humiliated in the last election is a ......... massive weapon. I’m not doing that, couldn’t care less. Him, Cumming and Hancock haven’t been strong enough and have been carried by Chris Whitty and Shanuk. You’re allowed to have an opinion on how your government is running things. And whilst I agree with the sentiment of the post above about knowing which advice is being ignored, it doesn’t deter from the fact that human beings as a collective have always been thick and selfish, and always will be. Perhaps we need a dictator? |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 23, 2020 13:47:55 GMT
Of course he is. Should hospitals have had enough PPE anyway? Of course they should. We've had months to prepare for this and tbh I'd like think (naively) that we'd have plenty of this stuff in supply anyway. It's another systematic failure due to years of underfunding. Of course it's a global crisis but the government have reacted awfully to it. It being a global crisis doesn't give them an excuse. It's unprecedented Bayern, as much as we'd like things immediately. I'd agree with the years of underfunding, but that needs to be looked at after this whole thing is over...if it ever is. Even if we had much greater funding, realistically I don't think that up to date protective clothing would have been stockpiled in their 100s of thousands. I do think that we need to value the NHS though and not to abuse it. It is but you're talking to someone who wonders if we have the channel tunnel rigged up ready to blow just in case the Germans started again, someone who would stockpile old tanks/planes just in case. That's how my brain works, thinking of the worst and how to best mitigate that just in case. I'm weird I know but that's how I think  Like I'd hope to God they have older but still decent ventilators that they can just wheel out with a bit of maintenance because it is exactly what I'd do. There are massive issues around the NHS and people (not just govt) misusing it and I think this whole thing has shown people take the piss and that needs stopping but I do hope it shows the government have cut it back way too much and they need the money they want. Combined with educating folks on how better to use it then hopefully that is one good that can come out of this horrible situation. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2020 13:53:46 GMT
I’m not doing that, couldn’t care less. Him, Cumming and Hancock haven’t been strong enough and have been carried by Chris Whitty and Shanuk. You’re allowed to have an opinion on how your government is running things. And whilst I agree with the sentiment of the post above about knowing which advice is being ignored, it doesn’t deter from the fact that human beings as a collective have always been thick and selfish, and always will be. Perhaps we need a dictator? What are you on about? We need leadership. |
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Post by zerps on Mar 23, 2020 13:57:59 GMT
Perhaps we need a dictator? What are you on about? We need leadership. If people are so thick they’ll only listen to a dictator, or his secret police. So it turns out politics doesn’t work because of the people. Fancy that. |
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Post by sheikhmomo on Mar 23, 2020 13:58:01 GMT
A a view from the ground
A consultant from an NHS hospital within the M25 (he did not want his hospital named) told the Guardian that his hospital was coping at present but he was anticipating a “proper crisis” by Saturday.
While hospitals are increasing bed numbers and ventilators are on the way, he said staffing was key and so personal protective equipment (PPE) for NHS staff and testing was vital. He said:
They keep downgrading the [PPE] specifications in view of the shortages. There’s a real fear among non-frontline staff that they’re just being sold a dummy. The places where they have been most successful in containing spread among healthcare workers they have been much more aggressive with the PPE (giving it to all healthcare workers). The doctors are seeing other vulnerable patients without Covid. If they’re asymptomatic and seeing patients, it’s the perfect medium to spread Covid.
He said one department at his hospital ordered alcoholic hand gel but only got a tenth of the amount they had requested. He said trusts were largely doing what they could but added:
The feeling is the government is putting healthcare workers at risk because of the inefficiency of planning. You’re putting staff in an environment where they feel unsafe to work. You’re putting patients at risk and staff at risk. NHS staff are treating Covid patients and non-Covid patients sequentially all the time.
The consultant said that by distributing the correct spec PPE among all healthcare workers, countries like Singapore and South Korea had reduced spread. By contrast, he said:
In Italy the frontline medical workers had an eight times Covid risk than the general public. I haven’t seen anyone spraying the front of my hospital [with disinfectant] like we see in Korea.
On testing, he said:
What you want to do is test early. Then, if they test positive, for all intents and purposes they’re likely to be immune (when they recover). If they don’t have Covid they can work. If they do have Covid, they can self-isolate.
A lot of healthcare workers are in relationships with other healthcare workers. Children have fevers or coughs all the time, if you lose staff for 14 days every time they have a fever or cough or have contact (with someone with symptoms or who has tested positive) that is a problem. We’ve got to test the medical staff and potentially even test their contacts.
The crux of this is having enough doctors and nurses and ventilators. We are in week four of a crisis. In four of five weeks I am probably going to have everyone self-isolating (in my team).
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Post by spitthedog on Mar 23, 2020 13:59:27 GMT
These posts are totally unhelpful imho. Identifying specific groups (i.e liberal left etc) and throwing insults in a post is bound to get a reaction, as you are very well aware. You are politically identifying a group negatively according to your own political persuasions, what is the point of that precisely apart from political posturing (if that isn't an agenda I don't know what is!). Explain how that is in any way constructive in this situation? Posting articles that are critical of strategy have some merit, because critical analysis is important as it always is in society, but throwing around insults and trying to provoke others without presenting any meaningful argument or analysis is surely not. I understand your point, but my point is equally as relevant. We are in unprecedented times, and people are more interested in tearing into each other than helping. I take your point, I appreciate your response and accept that it is not just in one direction. I just think that labelling people negatively with politicised slogans is not going to help us here and will only contribute towards this thread deteriorating very quickly as is seeming more and more likely. I think this thread can be valuable for people in many ways, by supporting each other, sharing useful information etc all without posters feeling they can't identify areas of concern in the way this is going to be managed if they feel that is also important and as long as it is constructive. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2020 14:05:40 GMT
What are you on about? We need leadership. If people are so thick they’ll only listen to a dictator, or his secret police. So it turns out politics doesn’t work because of the people. Fancy that. You are the one who has made the scary jump from quite blatantly ignoring advice and being thick, to dictatorship. I suspect this is because you’re trying to create another argument. |
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Post by StaffordPotter on Mar 23, 2020 14:12:46 GMT
I understand your point, but my point is equally as relevant. We are in unprecedented times, and people are more interested in tearing into each other than helping. I take your point, I appreciate your response and accept that it is not just in one direction. I just think that labelling people negatively with politicised slogans is not going to help us here and will only contribute towards this thread deteriorating very quickly as is seeming more and more likely. I think this thread can be valuable for people in many ways, by supporting each other, sharing useful information etc all without posters feeling they can't identify areas of concern in the way this is going to be managed if they feel that is also important and as long as it is constructive. Very true, I'll save my venom come matchday when that comes round again. |
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Mar 23, 2020 14:13:47 GMT
I take it 'Sh' which I assume is short for shithead has been banned now as well?
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Post by zerps on Mar 23, 2020 14:15:09 GMT
If people are so thick they’ll only listen to a dictator, or his secret police. So it turns out politics doesn’t work because of the people. Fancy that. You are the one who has made the scary jump from quite blatantly ignoring advice and being thick, to dictatorship. I suspect this is because you’re trying to create another argument. You want a tougher government to control thickos. Please explain how tough you want it? |
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Post by Davef on Mar 23, 2020 14:19:06 GMT
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Post by harryburrows on Mar 23, 2020 14:19:29 GMT
I’m trying to explain to mine that school timings are different to home school timings. You will be stopping school work at 2 so we can go and get some fresh air together finish work later. Just getting mouth off the eldest. They know best My lads finished his for the day waiting for the teachers send more, he’s now on the lockdown list so 12 weeks of him constantly at home mouthing back is not ideal. Little fuckers as tall as me now so mouths off like a big man unfortunately I weigh 40kg more than him and it’s not all fat lol so he backs down pretty quick. Let's hope he hasn't heard of child line 😉 |
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Post by yeokel on Mar 23, 2020 14:22:08 GMT
I’m trying to explain to mine that school timings are different to home school timings. You will be stopping school work at 2 so we can go and get some fresh air together finish work later. Just getting mouth off the eldest. They know best At the age it seems they might be, they know everything and you know nothing. In ten or fifteen year’s time, they will be surprised how much you have learned! |
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Post by serpico on Mar 23, 2020 14:25:10 GMT
Are health workers who say they feel like 'lambs to the slaughter' playing Politics? is it any different in other countries ? |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 23, 2020 14:25:33 GMT
Do you think that he is trying to get them? Or not. Perhaps every country in the world is after them. He's said that there is a shortage and he's trying to get them. Presumably not every country is going to get all they want and need at the drop of a hat. Are you sure that if anyone else was trying to do his job it would be any better? Perhaps. Perhaps not. It's a global crisis. Perhaps we should have got in first, before Italy...although O don't know the supply chains. Best thing we can do is to take the advice as given What you hear publicised isn't necessarily the full story. Of course he is. Should hospitals have had enough PPE anyway? Of course they should. We've had months to prepare for this and tbh I'd like think (naively) that we'd have plenty of this stuff in supply anyway. It's another systematic failure due to years of underfunding. Of course it's a global crisis but the government have reacted awfully to it. It being a global crisis doesn't give them an excuse. |
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Post by MilanStokie on Mar 23, 2020 14:29:52 GMT
410 dead today in Spain. I fear they will accelerate past Italy in the next 2 weeks. Germany reporting it flattening out for the first time. If you read back 3-4 weeks you will see that it was considered Germany was the first European outbreak and not Italy. If that's true then we can measure the life span of the virus, that is if countries take the correct necessary precautions... |
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Mar 23, 2020 14:30:47 GMT
I understand your point, but my point is equally as relevant. We are in unprecedented times, and people are more interested in tearing into each other than helping. I take your point, I appreciate your response and accept that it is not just in one direction. I just think that labelling people negatively with politicised slogans is not going to help us here and will only contribute towards this thread deteriorating very quickly as is seeming more and more likely. I think this thread can be valuable for people in many ways, by supporting each other, sharing useful information etc all without posters feeling they can't identify areas of concern in the way this is going to be managed if they feel that is also important and as long as it is constructive. Spit you're right. This thread has been a good source of information and valuable discussion. I've been particularly interested in the views and reports from our exiled Stokies in Milan and Madrid particularly. But as the crisis has deepened and the fear ramps up our basic tribal instincts and political blame culture is coming to the fore. This thread is rapidly degenerating into a left versus right bunfight and is serving no useful purpose other than massaging some already over inflated ego's. Can't you get it through your heads that people like me who are neither left nor right don't give a flying fuck about your political point scoring at the moment. It can wait for another day. But of course you don't care about that do you because it's your inalienable right to say what you want, when you want. Just like it was those daft fuckers inalienable right to climb Snowden or ride to Matlock Bath yesterday. Just because it's your right though doesn't make it RIGHT at the moment. |
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Mar 23, 2020 14:31:51 GMT
 In plain english, this means they are going to sequence the viral genetics of as many cases as possible in the UK. This should give us an idea of how likely any mutation is, what treatments could be effective, developing a vaccine as a fluid event, rather than snapshots in time. Not my department at all, but people I know will be working on this. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2020 14:35:18 GMT
I take your point, I appreciate your response and accept that it is not just in one direction. I just think that labelling people negatively with politicised slogans is not going to help us here and will only contribute towards this thread deteriorating very quickly as is seeming more and more likely. I think this thread can be valuable for people in many ways, by supporting each other, sharing useful information etc all without posters feeling they can't identify areas of concern in the way this is going to be managed if they feel that is also important and as long as it is constructive. Spit you're right. This thread has been a good source of information and valuable discussion. I've been particularly interested in the views and reports from our exiled Stokies in Milan and Madrid particularly. But as the crisis has deepened and the fear ramps up our basic tribal instincts and political blame culture is coming to the fore. This thread is rapidly degenerating into a left versus right bunfight and is serving no useful purpose other than massaging some already over inflated ego's. Can't you get it through your heads that people like me who are neither left nor right don't give a flying fuck about your political point scoring at the moment. It can wait for another day. But of course you don't care about that do you because it's your inalienable right to say what you want, when you want. Just like it was those daft fuckers inalienable right to climb Snowden or ride to Matlock Bath yesterday. Just because it's your right though doesn't make it RIGHT at the moment. Well said. |
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Post by sheikhmomo on Mar 23, 2020 14:35:26 GMT
I take your point, I appreciate your response and accept that it is not just in one direction. I just think that labelling people negatively with politicised slogans is not going to help us here and will only contribute towards this thread deteriorating very quickly as is seeming more and more likely. I think this thread can be valuable for people in many ways, by supporting each other, sharing useful information etc all without posters feeling they can't identify areas of concern in the way this is going to be managed if they feel that is also important and as long as it is constructive. Spit you're right. This thread has been a good source of information and valuable discussion. I've been particularly interested in the views and reports from our exiled Stokies in Milan and Madrid particularly. But as the crisis has deepened and the fear ramps up our basic tribal instincts and political blame culture is coming to the fore. This thread is rapidly degenerating into a left versus right bunfight and is serving no useful purpose other than massaging some already over inflated ego's. Can't you get it through your heads that people like me who are neither left nor right don't give a flying fuck about your political point scoring at the moment. It can wait for another day. But of course you don't care about that do you because it's your inalienable right to say what you want, when you want. Just like it was those daft fuckers inalienable right to climb Snowden or ride to Matlock Bath yesterday. Just because it's your right though doesn't make it RIGHT at the moment. I just dont get how you take the Politics out of it. It is Politics. |
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Post by crapslinger on Mar 23, 2020 14:36:10 GMT
Apart from the chronic lack of PPE and ventilators he's doing smashing yeah. Yeah nurses wearing bin bags carrying out their duties and still paying £15 a day at some hospitals to park their cars. But hey, it's not political.  Mostly hospitals built under PFI shocking isn't it. |
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Post by zerps on Mar 23, 2020 14:38:22 GMT
Spit you're right. This thread has been a good source of information and valuable discussion. I've been particularly interested in the views and reports from our exiled Stokies in Milan and Madrid particularly. But as the crisis has deepened and the fear ramps up our basic tribal instincts and political blame culture is coming to the fore. This thread is rapidly degenerating into a left versus right bunfight and is serving no useful purpose other than massaging some already over inflated ego's. Can't you get it through your heads that people like me who are neither left nor right don't give a flying fuck about your political point scoring at the moment. It can wait for another day. But of course you don't care about that do you because it's your inalienable right to say what you want, when you want. Just like it was those daft fuckers inalienable right to climb Snowden or ride to Matlock Bath yesterday. Just because it's your right though doesn't make it RIGHT at the moment. I just dont get how you take the Politics out of it. It is Politics. Jesus wept. We’re all in it together, or not? |
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Post by crapslinger on Mar 23, 2020 14:40:33 GMT
Perhaps we need a dictator? What are you on about? We need leadership. What like China ? |
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Post by zerps on Mar 23, 2020 14:44:06 GMT
Tell you what though, this weathers fantastic. I’m self isolating in my garden with a few beers.
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Post by mattador78 on Mar 23, 2020 14:45:34 GMT
My lads finished his for the day waiting for the teachers send more, he’s now on the lockdown list so 12 weeks of him constantly at home mouthing back is not ideal. Little fuckers as tall as me now so mouths off like a big man unfortunately I weigh 40kg more than him and it’s not all fat lol so he backs down pretty quick. Let's hope he hasn't heard of child line 😉 He’s stuck the number on the fridge taking the piss lol. He’s a good lad but loves arguing with me. The wife leaves us to it as neither of us will do anything apart from shout then both sulk for an hour 🤦♂️ |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 23, 2020 14:49:19 GMT
I take your point, I appreciate your response and accept that it is not just in one direction. I just think that labelling people negatively with politicised slogans is not going to help us here and will only contribute towards this thread deteriorating very quickly as is seeming more and more likely. I think this thread can be valuable for people in many ways, by supporting each other, sharing useful information etc all without posters feeling they can't identify areas of concern in the way this is going to be managed if they feel that is also important and as long as it is constructive. Spit you're right. This thread has been a good source of information and valuable discussion. I've been particularly interested in the views and reports from our exiled Stokies in Milan and Madrid particularly. But as the crisis has deepened and the fear ramps up our basic tribal instincts and political blame culture is coming to the fore. This thread is rapidly degenerating into a left versus right bunfight and is serving no useful purpose other than massaging some already over inflated ego's. Can't you get it through your heads that people like me who are neither left nor right don't give a flying fuck about your political point scoring at the moment. It can wait for another day. But of course you don't care about that do you because it's your inalienable right to say what you want, when you want. Just like it was those daft fuckers inalienable right to climb Snowden or ride to Matlock Bath yesterday. Just because it's your right though doesn't make it RIGHT at the moment. I'm left nor right but I don't see the harm in pointing where the government has fucked up and put more lives at risk than is necessary. In fact it's a massive part of this whole time. They need to be held accountable now, just not when it's all done. Indeed them not being held to account for the last 9 years is partially why they've made such a fuck up of this. |
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Post by adi on Mar 23, 2020 14:50:19 GMT
Spit you're right. This thread has been a good source of information and valuable discussion. I've been particularly interested in the views and reports from our exiled Stokies in Milan and Madrid particularly. But as the crisis has deepened and the fear ramps up our basic tribal instincts and political blame culture is coming to the fore. This thread is rapidly degenerating into a left versus right bunfight and is serving no useful purpose other than massaging some already over inflated ego's. Can't you get it through your heads that people like me who are neither left nor right don't give a flying fuck about your political point scoring at the moment. It can wait for another day. But of course you don't care about that do you because it's your inalienable right to say what you want, when you want. Just like it was those daft fuckers inalienable right to climb Snowden or ride to Matlock Bath yesterday. Just because it's your right though doesn't make it RIGHT at the moment. I just dont get how you take the Politics out of it. It is Politics. No it’s not, it’s a worldwide health and social crisis. If you or anyone else decides to make it political, because as others have said, your preferred party lost, then that’s your issue. The current government as voted by the masses are trying to deal with this issue, if you think otherwise then again that’s your issue. |
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Post by serpico on Mar 23, 2020 14:51:43 GMT
Spit you're right. This thread has been a good source of information and valuable discussion. I've been particularly interested in the views and reports from our exiled Stokies in Milan and Madrid particularly. But as the crisis has deepened and the fear ramps up our basic tribal instincts and political blame culture is coming to the fore. This thread is rapidly degenerating into a left versus right bunfight and is serving no useful purpose other than massaging some already over inflated ego's. Can't you get it through your heads that people like me who are neither left nor right don't give a flying fuck about your political point scoring at the moment. It can wait for another day. But of course you don't care about that do you because it's your inalienable right to say what you want, when you want. Just like it was those daft fuckers inalienable right to climb Snowden or ride to Matlock Bath yesterday. Just because it's your right though doesn't make it RIGHT at the moment. I just dont get how you take the Politics out of it. It is Politics. trouble is, he could do the right things and you'd still criticise him, this is one reason why im now going to scale back my use of this site for awhile, its pointless and a waste of energy, everyone has their minds made up on johnson and the tories, if you already hate him you're going to say he's bolloxing everything up with regards the virus response no matter what he/they do. |
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Post by adi on Mar 23, 2020 14:52:01 GMT
Spit you're right. This thread has been a good source of information and valuable discussion. I've been particularly interested in the views and reports from our exiled Stokies in Milan and Madrid particularly. But as the crisis has deepened and the fear ramps up our basic tribal instincts and political blame culture is coming to the fore. This thread is rapidly degenerating into a left versus right bunfight and is serving no useful purpose other than massaging some already over inflated ego's. Can't you get it through your heads that people like me who are neither left nor right don't give a flying fuck about your political point scoring at the moment. It can wait for another day. But of course you don't care about that do you because it's your inalienable right to say what you want, when you want. Just like it was those daft fuckers inalienable right to climb Snowden or ride to Matlock Bath yesterday. Just because it's your right though doesn't make it RIGHT at the moment. I'm left nor right but I don't see the harm in pointing where the government has fucked up and put more lives at risk than is necessary. In fact it's a massive part of this whole time. They need to be held accountable now, just not when it's all done. Indeed them not being held to account for the last 9 years is partially why they've made such a fuck up of this. That last paragraph is truly astonishing... no harm? Solidarity? I think I might need to stay away from this forum because it’s infuriating reading. |
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Post by adi on Mar 23, 2020 14:53:41 GMT
Tell you what though, this weathers fantastic. I’m self isolating in my garden with a few beers. Same! Try to stay a bit distracted for my own sanity 👍 |
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