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Post by cobhamstokey on Mar 6, 2021 7:26:12 GMT
It’s a cock up yes but we didn’t get our money back so we can’t reinvest the money spent already on costly mistakes. That said the individual person responsible should be sacked. It’s a bit like saying all the money spent on Imbula can now be spent on a new 20m midfielder. If its not there you can’t spend it. There’s no one that deserves a pay increase more than the nurses but not at the risk of taking the country further into debt. In the end costly mistakes have been made but you can’t pleases everyone by giving them additional funding if we don’t have it. Interestingly there was a nurse on R5 yesterday who was married to a prison officer who was incredibly humble. Far from. Saying how awful it was that she hadn’t had a wage increase she spoke up for the low wages of the prison officers and how she felt so lucky to have a job that paid 37k a year when she was getting numerous people being bought into A and E who had tried to take their own lives because their businesses had failed. She said that she was certainly happy to sacrifice the increase if it meant the money was spent elsewhere as were her colleagues. She was very much for an “in it together” way of thinking. Truly inspiring from a nurse I guess with beliefs like that it’s not surprising she does the job she does. I’ll see if I can find a link Sadly we will never be an in it together society when the main 2 parties and their supporters just want to point score against each other. It’s interesting that like a lot of things in society those least affected aren’t as bothered or vocal as those who aren’t affected at all that want to just turn it into a political bun fight.
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Post by Northy on Mar 6, 2021 8:03:52 GMT
Latest 🇸🇪 In Stockholm, the water contains 700% more of Sars Cov-2 than the week before. Hopefully the waste water and not the supply water 😁
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Post by Northy on Mar 6, 2021 8:07:32 GMT
It’s a cock up yes but we didn’t get our money back so we can’t reinvest the money spent already on costly mistakes. That said the individual person responsible should be sacked. It’s a bit like saying all the money spent on Imbula can now be spent on a new 20m midfielder. If its not there you can’t spend it. There’s no one that deserves a pay increase more than the nurses but not at the risk of taking the country further into debt. In the end costly mistakes have been made but you can’t pleases everyone by giving them additional funding if we don’t have it. Interestingly there was a nurse on R5 yesterday who was married to a prison officer who was incredibly humble. Far from. Saying how awful it was that she hadn’t had a wage increase she spoke up for the low wages of the prison officers and how she felt so lucky to have a job that paid 37k a year when she was getting numerous people being bought into A and E who had tried to take their own lives because their businesses had failed. She said that she was certainly happy to sacrifice the increase if it meant the money was spent elsewhere as were her colleagues. She was very much for an “in it together” way of thinking. Truly inspiring from a nurse I guess with beliefs like that it’s not surprising she does the job she does. I’ll see if I can find a link Sadly we will never be an in it together society when the main 2 parties and their supporters just want to point score against each other. It’s interesting that like a lot of things in society those least affected aren’t as bothered or vocal as those who aren’t affected at all that want to just turn it into a political bun fight. To me it's a pittance in the grand scheme of things for an extra 1% What's not being mentioned in all this is care home workers, they've had a pretty rough time of it and most in the private sector. I'm not getting a pay rise this time, can understand it and I've not faced a shit show every day at work for weeks on end
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Post by cobhamstokey on Mar 6, 2021 8:14:57 GMT
It’s a cock up yes but we didn’t get our money back so we can’t reinvest the money spent already on costly mistakes. That said the individual person responsible should be sacked. It’s a bit like saying all the money spent on Imbula can now be spent on a new 20m midfielder. If its not there you can’t spend it. There’s no one that deserves a pay increase more than the nurses but not at the risk of taking the country further into debt. In the end costly mistakes have been made but you can’t pleases everyone by giving them additional funding if we don’t have it. Interestingly there was a nurse on R5 yesterday who was married to a prison officer who was incredibly humble. Far from. Saying how awful it was that she hadn’t had a wage increase she spoke up for the low wages of the prison officers and how she felt so lucky to have a job that paid 37k a year when she was getting numerous people being bought into A and E who had tried to take their own lives because their businesses had failed. She said that she was certainly happy to sacrifice the increase if it meant the money was spent elsewhere as were her colleagues. She was very much for an “in it together” way of thinking. Truly inspiring from a nurse I guess with beliefs like that it’s not surprising she does the job she does. I’ll see if I can find a link Sadly we will never be an in it together society when the main 2 parties and their supporters just want to point score against each other. It’s interesting that like a lot of things in society those least affected aren’t as bothered or vocal as those who aren’t affected at all that want to just turn it into a political bun fight. To me it's a pittance in the grand scheme of things for an extra 1% What's not being mentioned in all this is care home workers, they've had a pretty rough time of it and most in the private sector. I'm not getting a pay rise this time, can understand it and I've not faced a shit show every day at work for weeks on end I agree with you for what it’s worth. I’d almost be insulted by a one or two percent increase so small will the difference be. It should be nearer 10 but with all the money being spent on Furlough I guess they think there’s nothing left in the pot. It’ll be very interesting to see if Politicians give them self a pay rise. If they do then I will be truly seething. Because any increase is likely to be more than one percent.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Mar 6, 2021 8:23:23 GMT
Yep. And you could argue that the younger ones won't have the chance to enjoy such things as job prospects have been decimated by the need to protect those susceptible to the virus. Younger people have had to make sacrifices for something that rarely impacts them. Now the older vaccinated mob should have to sacrifice for the good of the youngsters.
Or better still, go every man for himself, open up everything and crack on. Survival of the fittest and all that! 👍 What do you mean by this Dave, I'm not sure what it is that you're proposing, or am I being whooshed? I'm not proposing anything. Simply saying that people being allowed to travel with a vaccine passport of some description from May is grossly unfair given it's the younger population, those least affected by covid, who suffer. We've had to be in this together and make sacrifices for others more vulnerable than ourselves but now those vaccinated are seemingly more than happy to go it alone on this matter. We are vaccinated, we are safe, to hell with the rest of you. All I'm really suggesting/saying is that a vaccine passport so early in the vaccination program is grossly unfair to those that haven't had access to the vaccine yet.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Mar 6, 2021 8:26:06 GMT
What do you mean by this Dave, I'm not sure what it is that you're proposing, or am I being whooshed? Was thinking the same. Don't think too much. I'm not proposing anything beyond a counter argument to why a vaccine passport allowing those vaccinated to travel from as early as May is grossly unfair on those who won't have had access to a vaccine by then.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Mar 6, 2021 8:34:26 GMT
What do you mean by this Dave, I'm not sure what it is that you're proposing, or am I being whooshed? I'm not proposing anything. Simply saying that people being allowed to travel with a vaccine passport of some description from May is grossly unfair given it's the younger population, those least affected by covid, who suffer. We've had to be in this together and make sacrifices for others more vulnerable than ourselves but now those vaccinated are seemingly more than happy to go it alone on this matter. We are vaccinated, we are safe, to hell with the rest of you. A vaccine passport so early in the vaccination program is grossly unfair to those that haven't had access to the vaccine yet. Spot on for me this. It’s unfair to not treat each other equally either wait till everyone’s been done or don’t have a vaccine passport once all the vulnerable people have been done.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Mar 6, 2021 8:47:44 GMT
You could also argue that the old uns have worked their socks off for fifty years and looking forward to the best years of their lives before they pop their clogs or too knackered do anything. Yep. And you could argue that the younger ones won't have the chance to enjoy such things as job prospects have been decimated by the need to protect those susceptible to the virus. Younger people have had to make sacrifices for something that rarely impacts them. Now the older vaccinated mob should have to sacrifice for the good of the youngsters. Or better still, go every man for himself, open up everything and crack on. Survival of the fittest and all that! 👍 Survival of the fittest is a scientific doctrine designed to describe the brutal reality of the animal kingdom that when applied to the political domain becomes either fascism or barbarism. Anyone wishing to retain some semblance of a civilised society wouldn't go there. Or put it this way if some psychotic proc-vaccer finds out you've refused the vaccine you've just given them permission to kick seventeen shades of shit out of you with no backsies if you don't happen to be as big or as brutal as them. Good luck with that because you've just created a world where there's no one there to help you when that happens. Survival of the fittest and all that!
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Post by pipegatepotter on Mar 6, 2021 8:48:19 GMT
I'm not proposing anything. Simply saying that people being allowed to travel with a vaccine passport of some description from May is grossly unfair given it's the younger population, those least affected by covid, who suffer. We've had to be in this together and make sacrifices for others more vulnerable than ourselves but now those vaccinated are seemingly more than happy to go it alone on this matter. We are vaccinated, we are safe, to hell with the rest of you. A vaccine passport so early in the vaccination program is grossly unfair to those that haven't had access to the vaccine yet. Spot on for me this. It’s unfair to not treat each other equally either wait till everyone’s been done or don’t have a vaccine passport once all the vulnerable people have been done. There is no fair way out of this but to expect the economy to stay trashed until 100% are vaccinated is beyond stupid.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Mar 6, 2021 8:54:05 GMT
Yep. And you could argue that the younger ones won't have the chance to enjoy such things as job prospects have been decimated by the need to protect those susceptible to the virus. Younger people have had to make sacrifices for something that rarely impacts them. Now the older vaccinated mob should have to sacrifice for the good of the youngsters. Or better still, go every man for himself, open up everything and crack on. Survival of the fittest and all that! 👍 Survival of the fittest is a scientific doctrine designed to describe the brutal reality of the animal kingdom that when applied to the political domain becomes either fascism or barbarism. Anyone wishing to retain some semblance of a civilised society wouldn't go there. Or put it this way if some psychotic proc-vaccer finds out you've refused the vaccine you've just given them permission to kick seventeen shades of shit out of you with no backsies if you don't happen to be as big or as brutal as them. Good luck with that because you've just created a world where there's no one there to help you when that happens. Survival of the fittest and all that! I think you are reading way too much into the comment and are probably best served viewing it in the context of what I was responding to. 👍 Edit - surely the psychotic pro Vaxxer would be in jail long before he could wipe out the non vaccinated population? 😂
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Mar 6, 2021 9:34:56 GMT
Survival of the fittest is a scientific doctrine designed to describe the brutal reality of the animal kingdom that when applied to the political domain becomes either fascism or barbarism. Anyone wishing to retain some semblance of a civilised society wouldn't go there. Or put it this way if some psychotic proc-vaccer finds out you've refused the vaccine you've just given them permission to kick seventeen shades of shit out of you with no backsies if you don't happen to be as big or as brutal as them. Good luck with that because you've just created a world where there's no one there to help you when that happens. Survival of the fittest and all that! I think you are reading way too much into the comment and are probably best served viewing it in the context of what I was responding to. 👍 Edit - surely the psychotic pro Vaxxer would be in jail long before he could wipe out the non vaccinated population? 😂 Apologies if taken out of context - it's just survival of the fittest is a red rag to me when applied to social policy politics. It's what led to the Nazis death camps. In terms of locking up my psychotic pro Vaxxer - no they wouldn't be locked up in a society that accepts the doctrine of survival of the fittest. That's exactly my point - they'd be an exemplar of the perfect citizen. Until somebody worse came along.
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Post by adri2008 on Mar 6, 2021 9:37:29 GMT
Countries that rely on tourism will make it work even if the EU can't get its act together - they managed it last year after all with no vaccine available. Places like Spain, Greece, Portugal etc can't miss out on another summer season especially when it's likely that every vulnerable person in these countries will have been offered a vaccine by then not to mention the entire adult UK population having having had at least one jab.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Mar 6, 2021 9:37:32 GMT
I think you are reading way too much into the comment and are probably best served viewing it in the context of what I was responding to. 👍 Edit - surely the psychotic pro Vaxxer would be in jail long before he could wipe out the non vaccinated population? 😂 Apologies if taken out of context - it's just survival of the fittest is a red rag to me when applied to social policy politics. It's what led to the Nazis death camps. In terms of locking up my psychotic pro Vaxxer - no they wouldn't be locked up in a society that accepts the doctrine of survival of the fittest. That's exactly my point - they'd be an exemplar of the perfect citizen. Until somebody worse came along. I wasn't using it in the context of a psychotic mad man wiping us all out though or a Hitler type using the doctrine as an abuse of power.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 6, 2021 9:43:36 GMT
It’s a cock up yes but we didn’t get our money back so we can’t reinvest the money spent already on costly mistakes. That said the individual person responsible should be sacked. It’s a bit like saying all the money spent on Imbula can now be spent on a new 20m midfielder. If its not there you can’t spend it. There’s no one that deserves a pay increase more than the nurses but not at the risk of taking the country further into debt. In the end costly mistakes have been made but you can’t pleases everyone by giving them additional funding if we don’t have it. Interestingly there was a nurse on R5 yesterday who was married to a prison officer who was incredibly humble. Far from. Saying how awful it was that she hadn’t had a wage increase she spoke up for the low wages of the prison officers and how she felt so lucky to have a job that paid 37k a year when she was getting numerous people being bought into A and E who had tried to take their own lives because their businesses had failed. She said that she was certainly happy to sacrifice the increase if it meant the money was spent elsewhere as were her colleagues. She was very much for an “in it together” way of thinking. Truly inspiring from a nurse I guess with beliefs like that it’s not surprising she does the job she does. I’ll see if I can find a link Sadly we will never be an in it together society when the main 2 parties and their supporters just want to point score against each other. It’s interesting that like a lot of things in society those least affected aren’t as bothered or vocal as those who aren’t affected at all that want to just turn it into a political bun fight. Is corruption on an industrial scale “a cock up”?
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Post by adri2008 on Mar 6, 2021 9:55:35 GMT
My wife's school in Sheffield tested all students (over 1000) through out last week and picked up a total of zero cases which is a very good sign so perhaps there won't be a surge in cases after all though no doubt there'll be some hotspots.
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Post by werrington on Mar 6, 2021 10:05:20 GMT
What do you mean by this Dave, I'm not sure what it is that you're proposing, or am I being whooshed? I'm not proposing anything. Simply saying that people being allowed to travel with a vaccine passport of some description from May is grossly unfair given it's the younger population, those least affected by covid, who suffer. We've had to be in this together and make sacrifices for others more vulnerable than ourselves but now those vaccinated are seemingly more than happy to go it alone on this matter. We are vaccinated, we are safe, to hell with the rest of you. All I'm really suggesting/saying is that a vaccine passport so early in the vaccination program is grossly unfair to those that haven't had access to the vaccine yet. Dave as much as I might agree if that’s the way we get airlines up and running and their staff get back to work then I’m all for it The sooner that happens the better so let’s get those flights and holidays back
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Post by cobhamstokey on Mar 6, 2021 10:16:49 GMT
Spot on for me this. It’s unfair to not treat each other equally either wait till everyone’s been done or don’t have a vaccine passport once all the vulnerable people have been done. There is no fair way out of this but to expect the economy to stay trashed until 100% are vaccinated is beyond stupid. Which is why waving the passport is the best option now that we’re nearly through the vulnerable vaccines
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Post by mutters on Mar 6, 2021 10:34:38 GMT
I'm not proposing anything. Simply saying that people being allowed to travel with a vaccine passport of some description from May is grossly unfair given it's the younger population, those least affected by covid, who suffer. We've had to be in this together and make sacrifices for others more vulnerable than ourselves but now those vaccinated are seemingly more than happy to go it alone on this matter. We are vaccinated, we are safe, to hell with the rest of you. A vaccine passport so early in the vaccination program is grossly unfair to those that haven't had access to the vaccine yet. Spot on for me this. It’s unfair to not treat each other equally either wait till everyone’s been done or don’t have a vaccine passport once all the vulnerable people have been done. There is simple solution and that is no vaccine passport
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Post by danceswithclams on Mar 6, 2021 10:49:10 GMT
My wife's school in Sheffield tested all students (over 1000) through out last week and picked up a total of zero cases which is a very good sign so perhaps there won't be a surge in cases after all though no doubt there'll be some hotspots. Your wife is of school age? 😮
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Post by Gary Hackett on Mar 6, 2021 10:55:31 GMT
Don't think too much. I'm not proposing anything beyond a counter argument to why a vaccine passport allowing those vaccinated to travel from as early as May is grossly unfair on those who won't have had access to a vaccine by then. Well as I've said many times I wouldn't worry because vaccine passports on their own won't happen, the majority of countries will go down the lateral flow testing route. For example the EU are nowhere near having the amount of people vaccinated that we have. Do you really think countries like Greece, Turkey, Spain, Croatia, Bulgaria etc will turn away the majority of their business away from neighbouring countries this summer?
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Post by superjw on Mar 6, 2021 10:59:00 GMT
Don't think too much. I'm not proposing anything beyond a counter argument to why a vaccine passport allowing those vaccinated to travel from as early as May is grossly unfair on those who won't have had access to a vaccine by then. Well as I've said many times I wouldn't worry because vaccine passports on their own won't happen, the majority of countries will go down the lateral flow testing route. For example the EU are nowhere near having the amount of people vaccinated that we have. Do you really think countries like Greece, Turkey, Spain, Croatia, Bulgaria etc will turn away the majority of their business away this summer? Exactly, no Mediterranean country that relies on tourism so heavily will deny people travelling there just because they haven't been vaccinated. They would be denying most families and their kids from the UK and their EU counterparts. Greece have already said they can't afford to not have a summer season this year, like most places I'd say.
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Post by superjw on Mar 6, 2021 11:05:20 GMT
I'm not proposing anything. Simply saying that people being allowed to travel with a vaccine passport of some description from May is grossly unfair given it's the younger population, those least affected by covid, who suffer. We've had to be in this together and make sacrifices for others more vulnerable than ourselves but now those vaccinated are seemingly more than happy to go it alone on this matter. We are vaccinated, we are safe, to hell with the rest of you. All I'm really suggesting/saying is that a vaccine passport so early in the vaccination program is grossly unfair to those that haven't had access to the vaccine yet. Dave as much as I might agree if that’s the way we get airlines up and running and their staff get back to work then I’m all for it The sooner that happens the better so let’s get those flights and holidays back I'm not so bothered about the travel vaccine passport as I am the domestic one, that's where I draw the line. I'm not prepared to accept being denied entry to somewhere because I've not had my vaccine come April/May. I saw the other day some UK festival in July has vaccines as a condition of entry. Dangerous precedent to set I have to say. Problem is, businesses are shit scared of being responsible for a new Covid outbreak and I bet the insurance is a nightmare. The government are powerless to stop a business asking for vaccine only. It would be madness for them to do it as business need all the custom they can get, but I can see it coming.
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Post by Bojan Mackey on Mar 6, 2021 11:12:51 GMT
Dave as much as I might agree if that’s the way we get airlines up and running and their staff get back to work then I’m all for it The sooner that happens the better so let’s get those flights and holidays back I'm not so bothered about the travel vaccine passport as I am the domestic one, that's where I draw the line. I'm not prepared to accept being denied entry to somewhere because I've not had my vaccine come April/May. I saw the other day some UK festival in July has vaccines as a condition of entry. Dangerous precedent to set I have to say. Problem is, businesses are shit scared of being responsible for a new Covid outbreak and I bet the insurance is a nightmare. The government are powerless to stop a business asking for vaccine only. It would be madness for them to do it as business need all the custom they can get, but I can see it coming. Simple way around this is an “attend at your own risk” policy, I’m going to Castle Combe in May and they’ve said they take no responsibility should you come into contact with covid whilst attending and it is off your own back if you wish to attend.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 6, 2021 11:22:17 GMT
What do you mean by this Dave, I'm not sure what it is that you're proposing, or am I being whooshed? I'm not proposing anything. Simply saying that people being allowed to travel with a vaccine passport of some description from May is grossly unfair given it's the younger population, those least affected by covid, who suffer. We've had to be in this together and make sacrifices for others more vulnerable than ourselves but now those vaccinated are seemingly more than happy to go it alone on this matter. We are vaccinated, we are safe, to hell with the rest of you. All I'm really suggesting/saying is that a vaccine passport so early in the vaccination program is grossly unfair to those that haven't had access to the vaccine yet. So you're just having a public whinge about life being unfair but ultimately, you do accept it is what it is?
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Post by davejohnno1 on Mar 6, 2021 11:22:34 GMT
I'm not proposing anything. Simply saying that people being allowed to travel with a vaccine passport of some description from May is grossly unfair given it's the younger population, those least affected by covid, who suffer. We've had to be in this together and make sacrifices for others more vulnerable than ourselves but now those vaccinated are seemingly more than happy to go it alone on this matter. We are vaccinated, we are safe, to hell with the rest of you. All I'm really suggesting/saying is that a vaccine passport so early in the vaccination program is grossly unfair to those that haven't had access to the vaccine yet. Dave as much as I might agree if that’s the way we get airlines up and running and their staff get back to work then I’m all for it The sooner that happens the better so let’s get those flights and holidays back Which is perfectly fair unless it excludes a whole raft of people who have given up freedoms to protect and shield those who can now travel. I find it amazing how all these people begging others not to be selfish are now quite happy to be selfish themselves now it suits them.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Mar 6, 2021 11:25:15 GMT
I'm not proposing anything. Simply saying that people being allowed to travel with a vaccine passport of some description from May is grossly unfair given it's the younger population, those least affected by covid, who suffer. We've had to be in this together and make sacrifices for others more vulnerable than ourselves but now those vaccinated are seemingly more than happy to go it alone on this matter. We are vaccinated, we are safe, to hell with the rest of you. All I'm really suggesting/saying is that a vaccine passport so early in the vaccination program is grossly unfair to those that haven't had access to the vaccine yet. So you're just having a public whinge about life being unfair but ultimately, you do accept it is what it is? I'm not having a whinge at all. I was responding to a specific point. If it's safe to travel it should be safe to travel for all. To exclude those who have sacrificed so much is not right. And if the theory is that life is unfair then that is fine as well but in that case fuck protecting those that may be vulnerable. Life is unfair so let them shield themselves whilst everyone gets on with life.
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Post by lordb on Mar 6, 2021 11:26:48 GMT
Dave as much as I might agree if that’s the way we get airlines up and running and their staff get back to work then I’m all for it The sooner that happens the better so let’s get those flights and holidays back Which is perfectly fair unless it excludes a whole raft of people who have given up freedoms to protect and shield those who can now travel. I find it amazing how all these people begging others not to be selfish are now quite happy to be selfish themselves now it suits them. If you want fairness you are correct But: the travel industry needs income ASAP To wait till the vaccine is rolled out so it's fair isn't, well, fair on them
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Post by werrington on Mar 6, 2021 11:27:58 GMT
Dave as much as I might agree if that’s the way we get airlines up and running and their staff get back to work then I’m all for it The sooner that happens the better so let’s get those flights and holidays back Which is perfectly fair unless it excludes a whole raft of people who have given up freedoms to protect and shield those who can now travel. I find it amazing how all these people begging others not to be selfish are now quite happy to be selfish themselves now it suits them. I’m not being selfish, I’m just thinking of those who work in industries/sectors who are desperate to get back up and running before it all becomes too late ....if that’s what it takes short term then let it happen I agree with you in regards the damn thing but I’m thinking of those sectors
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Post by davejohnno1 on Mar 6, 2021 11:30:24 GMT
Don't think too much. I'm not proposing anything beyond a counter argument to why a vaccine passport allowing those vaccinated to travel from as early as May is grossly unfair on those who won't have had access to a vaccine by then. Well as I've said many times I wouldn't worry because vaccine passports on their own won't happen, the majority of countries will go down the lateral flow testing route. For example the EU are nowhere near having the amount of people vaccinated that we have. Do you really think countries like Greece, Turkey, Spain, Croatia, Bulgaria etc will turn away the majority of their business away from neighbouring countries this summer? I'm not worried in the slightest. I was merely playing devils advocate to a specific point. I'm neither young nor old and am likely to have been vaccinated by may myself anyway.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 6, 2021 11:30:58 GMT
So you're just having a public whinge about life being unfair but ultimately, you do accept it is what it is? I'm not having a whinge at all. I was responding to a specific point. If it's safe to travel it should be safe to travel for all. To exclude those who have sacrificed so much is not right. And if the theory is that life is unfair then that is fine as well but in that case fuck protecting those that may be vulnerable. Life is unfair so let them shield themselves whilst everyone gets on with life. I asked you what you were proposing and you said that you weren't proposing anything, you were just SAYING that it was unfair, that's whinging in my book if you haven't got a counter proposal, nothing wrong with it but that's what it is. Unless there actually IS something that you think should HAPPEN?
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