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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Mar 6, 2021 12:16:36 GMT
Spot on for me this. It’s unfair to not treat each other equally either wait till everyone’s been done or don’t have a vaccine passport once all the vulnerable people have been done. There is simple solution and that is no vaccine passport The thing is if another country decides to impose a vaccine passport of some sort neither you nor the government can do anything about it and if a business in the UK makes vaccination a condition of entry/employment the government would have to implement a new law to make it illegal which they are very unlikely to do as that would infringe on the rights of the business to determine how it wants to operate. Some countries and some businesses will decide to impose restrictions and others won't. If you choose not to have the jab that's your call but to expect the world to adapt to your decision is just unreasonable and unrealistic. If you decide not to have the jab then be prepared to live with the consequences - you're not going to have any choice in the matter anyway.
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Post by werrington on Mar 6, 2021 12:19:38 GMT
There is simple solution and that is no vaccine passport The thing is if another country decides to impose a vaccine passport of some sort neither you nor the government can do anything about it and if a business in the UK makes vaccination a condition of entry/employment the government would have to implement a new law to make it illegal which they are very unlikely to do as that would infringe on the rights of the business to determine how it wants to operate. Some countries and some businesses will decide to impose restrictions and others won't. If you choose not to have the jab that's your call but to expect the world to adapt to your decision is just unreasonable and unrealistic. If you decide not to have the jab then be prepared to live with the consequences - you're not going to have any choice in the matter anyway. Short term the jab will be necessary to travel ....long term ( one year? ) it won’t be needed I reckon
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Mar 6, 2021 12:32:11 GMT
The thing is if another country decides to impose a vaccine passport of some sort neither you nor the government can do anything about it and if a business in the UK makes vaccination a condition of entry/employment the government would have to implement a new law to make it illegal which they are very unlikely to do as that would infringe on the rights of the business to determine how it wants to operate. Some countries and some businesses will decide to impose restrictions and others won't. If you choose not to have the jab that's your call but to expect the world to adapt to your decision is just unreasonable and unrealistic. If you decide not to have the jab then be prepared to live with the consequences - you're not going to have any choice in the matter anyway. Short term the jab will be necessary to travel ....long term ( one year? ) it won’t be needed I reckon In an ideal world yes but it depends on how fast the vaccination programme is implemented around the world and that's going to be easier some places than others. If anyone wants get to back to normal sooner rather than later I really don't get why they wouldn't have the jab - the idea that it carries a greater threat to health than covid is just a lack of understanding of the relative risks and expecting the world to revolve around someone's (legitimate) decision not to have the jab is both egotistical and self defeating. The decision not to have the jab will have consequences in terms of what you can do in the short/medium term - if someone accepts that there isn't a problem. Expecting there to be no consequences is just unrealistic and moaning about it pointless.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Mar 6, 2021 12:32:48 GMT
I'm not having a whinge at all. I was responding to a specific point. If it's safe to travel it should be safe to travel for all. To exclude those who have sacrificed so much is not right. And if the theory is that life is unfair then that is fine as well but in that case fuck protecting those that may be vulnerable. Life is unfair so let them shield themselves whilst everyone gets on with life. I asked you what you were proposing and you said that you weren't proposing anything, you were just SAYING that it was unfair, that's whinging in my book if you haven't got a counter proposal, nothing wrong with it but that's what it is. Unless there actually IS something that you think should HAPPEN? Mr Spencer...I was responding to a specific point with an alternative viewpoint from the perspective of a younger person who may not have had access to the vaccine. I wasn't suggesting anything should happen nor was I whinging. If you want me to make a counter proposal I'll make one. If it wasn't for the young people sacrificing themselves to keep you old bastards safe you wouldn't be around to be able to be vaccinated so as to enable you to travel. The youngest should have gone about their business and let those that may die, die. Controversial enough for you? My view is that vaccine passports are a load of bollocks until such time as everyone has had access to a vaccine. Then and only then should they even consider being introduced. Young people, with no access to the vaccine should not in any way, shape or form be prevented from travelling abroad on holiday whilst those who've had the vaccine can crack on and do whatever the hell they like. We are either in this together, looking after each other or we aren't. Seemingly we aren't so what the hell has been the point of the last 12 months?
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Post by werrington on Mar 6, 2021 12:40:47 GMT
I asked you what you were proposing and you said that you weren't proposing anything, you were just SAYING that it was unfair, that's whinging in my book if you haven't got a counter proposal, nothing wrong with it but that's what it is. Unless there actually IS something that you think should HAPPEN? Mr Spencer...I was responding to a specific point with an alternative viewpoint from the perspective of a younger person who may not have had access to the vaccine. I wasn't suggesting anything should happen nor was I whinging. If you want me to make a counter proposal I'll make one. If it wasn't for the young people sacrificing themselves to keep you old bastards safe you wouldn't be around to be able to be vaccinated so as to enable you to travel. The youngest should have gone about their business and let those that may die, die. Controversial enough for you? My view is that vaccine passports are a load of bollocks until such time as everyone has had access to a vaccine. Then and only then should they even consider being introduced. Young people, with no access to the vaccine should not in any way, shape or form be prevented from travelling abroad on holiday whilst those who've had the vaccine can crack on and do whatever the hell they like. We are either in this together, looking after each other or we aren't. Seemingly we aren't so what the hell has been the point of the last 12 months? So bollocks to those who work in the tourist industry?.....they’ve been in it together also
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Post by davejohnno1 on Mar 6, 2021 12:44:03 GMT
Mr Spencer...I was responding to a specific point with an alternative viewpoint from the perspective of a younger person who may not have had access to the vaccine. I wasn't suggesting anything should happen nor was I whinging. If you want me to make a counter proposal I'll make one. If it wasn't for the young people sacrificing themselves to keep you old bastards safe you wouldn't be around to be able to be vaccinated so as to enable you to travel. The youngest should have gone about their business and let those that may die, die. Controversial enough for you? My view is that vaccine passports are a load of bollocks until such time as everyone has had access to a vaccine. Then and only then should they even consider being introduced. Young people, with no access to the vaccine should not in any way, shape or form be prevented from travelling abroad on holiday whilst those who've had the vaccine can crack on and do whatever the hell they like. We are either in this together, looking after each other or we aren't. Seemingly we aren't so what the hell has been the point of the last 12 months? So bollocks to those who work in the tourist industry?.....they’ve been in it together also That wouldn't be my viewpoint no but how is the tourist industry any more special than any other? Loads of industries have been decimated. The onus is on the Government to protect those industries until such time as they can function effectively. Why should the pub industry have been destroyed? Why should retail have been decimated by forced closures?
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Post by werrington on Mar 6, 2021 13:10:19 GMT
So bollocks to those who work in the tourist industry?.....they’ve been in it together also That wouldn't be my viewpoint no but how is the tourist industry any more special than any other? Loads of industries have been decimated. The onus is on the Government to protect those industries until such time as they can function effectively. Why should the pub industry have been destroyed? Why should retail have been decimated by forced closures? I don’t disagree with you mate but I do in regards stopping sectors from finally opening when they are able
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 6, 2021 13:12:04 GMT
I asked you what you were proposing and you said that you weren't proposing anything, you were just SAYING that it was unfair, that's whinging in my book if you haven't got a counter proposal, nothing wrong with it but that's what it is. Unless there actually IS something that you think should HAPPEN? Mr Spencer...I was responding to a specific point with an alternative viewpoint from the perspective of a younger person who may not have had access to the vaccine. I wasn't suggesting anything should happen nor was I whinging. If you want me to make a counter proposal I'll make one. If it wasn't for the young people sacrificing themselves to keep you old bastards safe you wouldn't be around to be able to be vaccinated so as to enable you to travel. The youngest should have gone about their business and let those that may die, die. Controversial enough for you? My view is that vaccine passports are a load of bollocks until such time as everyone has had access to a vaccine. Then and only then should they even consider being introduced. Young people, with no access to the vaccine should not in any way, shape or form be prevented from travelling abroad on holiday whilst those who've had the vaccine can crack on and do whatever the hell they like.
We are either in this together, looking after each other or we aren't. Seemingly we aren't so what the hell has been the point of the last 12 months? Finally we get somewhere. So you want even more people to lose their jobs, you want the airlines to remain grounded, the hotels to remain shut, even more bars and restaurants to close forever, whole tourist area economies across the continent to suffer even yet more misery, businesses that have managed to hang on by the skin of their teeth in anticipation of the tourists returning this summer, to be kicked in the balls one last time and finally close, never to reopen? And all for what ... just to make people who haven't been vaccinated who can't go, feel better that they've prevented older people who could go from going too? That's insane. Since the pandemic started, life hasn't been fair right across the board, people have seen their businesses collapse, people have lost their jobs, their houses, their education and their loved ones, people have been locked away for a year. It's been utterly dreadful for many people, across many age groups and will continue to do so for some time to come but when opportunities arise to try and make things better, at least for some people, we don't simply dismiss that opportunity, in order to make life 'fair' for everyone, life doesn't work like that. Remember this will be foreign countries denying us entry and there's nothing we can do about that unless the government bans fully vaccinated people from travelling abroad when they are actually free to do so, which would be completely absurd. Personally I'm against any form of vaccination passports and will most certainly get out on the streets and protest against their introduction in this country but if a foreign country won't let you in for any reason, then you have no choice but to address their requirements, or simply boycott the place.
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Mar 6, 2021 13:15:34 GMT
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Post by davejohnno1 on Mar 6, 2021 13:24:04 GMT
Mr Spencer...I was responding to a specific point with an alternative viewpoint from the perspective of a younger person who may not have had access to the vaccine. I wasn't suggesting anything should happen nor was I whinging. If you want me to make a counter proposal I'll make one. If it wasn't for the young people sacrificing themselves to keep you old bastards safe you wouldn't be around to be able to be vaccinated so as to enable you to travel. The youngest should have gone about their business and let those that may die, die. Controversial enough for you? My view is that vaccine passports are a load of bollocks until such time as everyone has had access to a vaccine. Then and only then should they even consider being introduced. Young people, with no access to the vaccine should not in any way, shape or form be prevented from travelling abroad on holiday whilst those who've had the vaccine can crack on and do whatever the hell they like.
We are either in this together, looking after each other or we aren't. Seemingly we aren't so what the hell has been the point of the last 12 months? Finally we get somewhere. So you want even more people to lose their jobs, you want the airlines to remain grounded, the hotels to remain shut, even more bars and restaurants to close forever, whole tourist area economies across the continent to suffer even yet more misery, businesses that have managed to hang on by the skin of their teeth in anticipation of the tourists returning this summer, to be kicked in the balls one last time and finally close, never to reopen? And all for what ... just to make people who haven't been vaccinated who can't go, feel better that they've prevented older people who could go from going too? That's insane. Since the pandemic started, life hasn't been fair right across the board, people have seen their businesses collapse, people have lost their jobs, their houses, their education and their loved ones and been locked away for a year, it's been utterly dreadful for many people, across many age groups and will continue to do so for some time to come but when opportunities arise to try and make things better, at least for some people, we don't simply dismiss that opportunity, in order to make life 'fair' for everyone, life doesn't work like that. Remember this will be foreign countries denying us entry and there's nothing we can do about that unless the government bans fully vaccinated people from travelling abroad when they are actually free to do so, which would be completely absurd. Personally I'm against any form of vaccination passports and will most certainly get out on the streets protest against their introduction in this country but if a foreign country won't let you in for any reason, then you have no choice but to address their requirements, or simply boycott the place. Paul...I know that you like to get all deep and meaningful about this and that you've obsessed with this thread for over 12 months but you are picking an argument on something where there isn't one to be had. Someone further up made a comment and I put an alternative, devils advocate comment forward. I wasn't advocating anything and I'm not speaking for myself as I'm not a younger person that could feel wronged by not being able to travel due to a vaccine passport being introduced to allow people to travel from May. All of what you say is above is perfectly valid. Of course it is. However, given that life isn't fair, you can surely then appreciate and understand if young people had turned around long ago and said "fuck you. This isn't affecting me so I'm going about my life as normal. If you die, so be it. I won't die so fuck the rest of you". When I went to Borneo I had to prove I'd have my various jabs and was taking Malaria tablets. I didn't object and I wouldn't object to having a vaccine passport if that is what is required to travel to places that I want to visit. However, to prevent young people from travelling when they've had no access to the vaccine simply doesn't seem right. If it is right, then surely the pubs and clubs should have remained open for younger people and all those old un's that needed a vaccine to be safe should have been forced to stay away. If it's OK to help sections of the economy allowing a certain section of the population to travel then equally it should have been right to leave other sections of the economy open allowing a different section of the population to enjoy those.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 6, 2021 13:33:52 GMT
Finally we get somewhere. So you want even more people to lose their jobs, you want the airlines to remain grounded, the hotels to remain shut, even more bars and restaurants to close forever, whole tourist area economies across the continent to suffer even yet more misery, businesses that have managed to hang on by the skin of their teeth in anticipation of the tourists returning this summer, to be kicked in the balls one last time and finally close, never to reopen? And all for what ... just to make people who haven't been vaccinated who can't go, feel better that they've prevented older people who could go from going too? That's insane. Since the pandemic started, life hasn't been fair right across the board, people have seen their businesses collapse, people have lost their jobs, their houses, their education and their loved ones and been locked away for a year, it's been utterly dreadful for many people, across many age groups and will continue to do so for some time to come but when opportunities arise to try and make things better, at least for some people, we don't simply dismiss that opportunity, in order to make life 'fair' for everyone, life doesn't work like that. Remember this will be foreign countries denying us entry and there's nothing we can do about that unless the government bans fully vaccinated people from travelling abroad when they are actually free to do so, which would be completely absurd. Personally I'm against any form of vaccination passports and will most certainly get out on the streets protest against their introduction in this country but if a foreign country won't let you in for any reason, then you have no choice but to address their requirements, or simply boycott the place. Paul...I know that you like to get all deep and meaningful about this and that you've obsessed with this thread for over 12 months but you are picking an argument on something where there isn't one to be had. Someone further up referenced a comment and I put an alternative, devils advocate comment forward. I wasn't advocating anything and I'm not speaking for myself as I'm not a younger person that could feel wronged by not being able to travel due to a vaccine passport being introduced to allow people to travel from May. All of what you say is perfectly above is perfectly valid. Of course it is. However, given that life isn't fair, you can surely then appreciate and understand if young people had turned around long ago and said "fuck you. This isn't affecting me so I'm going about my life as normal. If you die, so be it. I won't die so fuck the rest of you". When I went to Borneo I had to prove I'd have my various jabs and was taking Malaria tablets. I didn't object and I wouldn't object to having a vaccine passport if that is what is required to travel to places that I want to visit. However, to prevent young people from travelling when they've had no access to the vaccine simply doesn't seem right. If it is right, then surely the pubs and clubs should have remained open for younger people and all those old un's that needed a vaccine to be safe should have been forced to stay away. If it's OK to help sections of the economy allowing a certain section of the population to travel then equally it should have been right to leave other sections of the economy open allowing a different section of the population to enjoy those.You're conflating two different issues Dave. You're confusing what our Government has done in the past, with what foreign Governments may do in the future. We can't do anything about the restrictions that foreign countries might impose, so to suggest that those restrictions won't be 'fair' to our younger people now because of the restrictions that have been imposed here in the past, isn't a sound argument. The only way our Government could give you the level playing field that you're looking for, is to ban fully vaccinated people from travelling to countries that would be happy to let them in, which, as I said, would be utterly absurd.
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Post by mutters on Mar 6, 2021 13:37:55 GMT
There is simple solution and that is no vaccine passport The thing is if another country decides to impose a vaccine passport of some sort neither you nor the government can do anything about it and if a business in the UK makes vaccination a condition of entry/employment the government would have to implement a new law to make it illegal which they are very unlikely to do as that would infringe on the rights of the business to determine how it wants to operate. Some countries and some businesses will decide to impose restrictions and others won't. If you choose not to have the jab that's your call but to expect the world to adapt to your decision is just unreasonable and unrealistic. If you decide not to have the jab then be prepared to live with the consequences - you're not going to have any choice in the matter anyway.?? I have no choice?? Please explain
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Post by musik on Mar 6, 2021 13:41:48 GMT
What differs the HV1 virus (also called The Abortion virus), which 6 horses have died of in Spain this week, from the Sars CoV-2 virus?
Can humans get HV1 or a mutation of it?
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Post by davejohnno1 on Mar 6, 2021 13:44:26 GMT
Paul...I know that you like to get all deep and meaningful about this and that you've obsessed with this thread for over 12 months but you are picking an argument on something where there isn't one to be had. Someone further up referenced a comment and I put an alternative, devils advocate comment forward. I wasn't advocating anything and I'm not speaking for myself as I'm not a younger person that could feel wronged by not being able to travel due to a vaccine passport being introduced to allow people to travel from May. All of what you say is perfectly above is perfectly valid. Of course it is. However, given that life isn't fair, you can surely then appreciate and understand if young people had turned around long ago and said "fuck you. This isn't affecting me so I'm going about my life as normal. If you die, so be it. I won't die so fuck the rest of you". When I went to Borneo I had to prove I'd have my various jabs and was taking Malaria tablets. I didn't object and I wouldn't object to having a vaccine passport if that is what is required to travel to places that I want to visit. However, to prevent young people from travelling when they've had no access to the vaccine simply doesn't seem right. If it is right, then surely the pubs and clubs should have remained open for younger people and all those old un's that needed a vaccine to be safe should have been forced to stay away. If it's OK to help sections of the economy allowing a certain section of the population to travel then equally it should have been right to leave other sections of the economy open allowing a different section of the population to enjoy those.You're conflating two different issues Dave. You're confusing what our Government has done in the past, with what foreign Governments may do in the future. We can't do anything about the restrictions that foreign countries might impose, so to suggest that those restrictions won't be 'fair' to our younger people because of the restrictions that have been imposed here in the past, isn't a sound argument. The only way our Government could give you the level playing field that you're asking for, is to ban fully vaccinated people from travelling to countries that would be happy to let them in, which, as I said, would be utterly absurd. Seriously. I'm not confusing anything and I'm not asking for anything, level playing field or otherwise. I couldn't give a flying fuck either way. I was offering an alternative, devils advocate viewpoint to a comment further up the board. For example, if this were an exam question, you'd argue both sides of the coin and reach a conclusion. My original 2 comments were offering a different view in direct response to a specific comment. Nothing more, nothing less. You are the one attempting into some kind of deep and meaningful debate. To address your point above, as if the likes of Greece and Turkey are going to stop anyone going into their country? More likely it will be our government who will effectively prevent travel by imposing ridiculous return quarantine rules or testing rules that add even more money to the cost of a holiday for those not vaccinated, so effectively ensuring the unlevel playing field to which you refer. Either way, watching older vaccinated people venturing abroad on holidays is sure to stick in the craw of a whole raft of people who have sacrificed a hell of a lot on something that was likely to have zero impact on them. Who could blame them for feeling like that?
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Post by musik on Mar 6, 2021 13:45:25 GMT
The thing is if another country decides to impose a vaccine passport of some sort neither you nor the government can do anything about it and if a business in the UK makes vaccination a condition of entry/employment the government would have to implement a new law to make it illegal which they are very unlikely to do as that would infringe on the rights of the business to determine how it wants to operate. Some countries and some businesses will decide to impose restrictions and others won't. If you choose not to have the jab that's your call but to expect the world to adapt to your decision is just unreasonable and unrealistic. If you decide not to have the jab then be prepared to live with the consequences - you're not going to have any choice in the matter anyway.?? I have no choice?? Please explain Well, here in Sweden they have started discussions about preventing not vaccinated people from entering theaters, cinemas, concerts and sport events. Worse than apartheid.
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Post by chigstoke on Mar 6, 2021 13:49:26 GMT
What differs the HV1 virus (also called The Abortion virus), which 6 horses have died of in Spain this week, from the Sars CoV-2 virus? Can humans get HV1 or a mutation of it? That's EHV in horses, or, Equine Herpesvirus.
It doesn't infect humans, our strain of what humans know as Herpes is different.
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Post by stokeuk474 on Mar 6, 2021 14:01:22 GMT
Paul...I know that you like to get all deep and meaningful about this and that you've obsessed with this thread for over 12 months but you are picking an argument on something where there isn't one to be had. Someone further up referenced a comment and I put an alternative, devils advocate comment forward. I wasn't advocating anything and I'm not speaking for myself as I'm not a younger person that could feel wronged by not being able to travel due to a vaccine passport being introduced to allow people to travel from May. All of what you say is perfectly above is perfectly valid. Of course it is. However, given that life isn't fair, you can surely then appreciate and understand if young people had turned around long ago and said "fuck you. This isn't affecting me so I'm going about my life as normal. If you die, so be it. I won't die so fuck the rest of you". When I went to Borneo I had to prove I'd have my various jabs and was taking Malaria tablets. I didn't object and I wouldn't object to having a vaccine passport if that is what is required to travel to places that I want to visit. However, to prevent young people from travelling when they've had no access to the vaccine simply doesn't seem right. If it is right, then surely the pubs and clubs should have remained open for younger people and all those old un's that needed a vaccine to be safe should have been forced to stay away. If it's OK to help sections of the economy allowing a certain section of the population to travel then equally it should have been right to leave other sections of the economy open allowing a different section of the population to enjoy those.You're conflating two different issues Dave. You're confusing what our Government has done in the past, with what foreign Governments may do in the future. We can't do anything about the restrictions that foreign countries might impose, so to suggest that those restrictions won't be 'fair' to our younger people now because of the restrictions that have been imposed here in the past, isn't a sound argument. The only way our Government could give you the level playing field that you're looking for, is to ban fully vaccinated people from travelling to countries that would be happy to let them in, which, as I said, would be utterly absurd. I may be wrong here, but the way I see it is, Dave is proposing that it should be fair for everyone, in that we can all travel regardless of vaccination status. Yes, banning people who have been vaccinated from travelling would be absurd, just to appease the younger population, but I don't think that's what he's proposing, he's saying everyone should be allowed to travel. If countries decide to refuse entry based on vaccination, then fair enough, those people will have to go to another country where a vaccine is not required. Anyway, I don't think this will happen as others have pointed out, you will probably just be required to take a test of some sort.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 6, 2021 14:01:47 GMT
You're conflating two different issues Dave. You're confusing what our Government has done in the past, with what foreign Governments may do in the future. We can't do anything about the restrictions that foreign countries might impose, so to suggest that those restrictions won't be 'fair' to our younger people because of the restrictions that have been imposed here in the past, isn't a sound argument. The only way our Government could give you the level playing field that you're asking for, is to ban fully vaccinated people from travelling to countries that would be happy to let them in, which, as I said, would be utterly absurd. Seriously. I'm not confusing anything and I'm not asking for anything, level playing field or otherwise. I couldn't give a flying fuck either way. I was offering an alternative, devils advocate viewpoint to a comment further up the board. For example, if this were an exam question, you'd argue both sides of the coin and reach a conclusion. My original 2 comments were offering a different view in direct response to a specific comment. Nothing more, nothing less. You are the one attempting into some kind of deep and meaningful debate. To address your point above, as if the likes of Greece and Turkey are going to stop anyone going into their country? More likely it will be our government who will effectively prevent travel by imposing ridiculous return quarantine rules or testing rules that add even more money to the cost of a holiday for those not vaccinated, so effectively ensuring the unlevel playing field to which you refer. Either way, watching older vaccinated people venturing abroad on holidays is sure to stick in the craw of a whole raft of people who have sacrificed a hell of a lot on something that was likely to have zero impact on them. Who could blame them for feeling like that?Nobody and there hasn't been anybody who has suggested that it it's not fair but beyond winging about it, there's nothing that could be done about it. As I said to you right at the beginning, I assumed that you believed that it is what it is and we move on. The who pandemic has been unfair for many people on many levels and this would be yet just another example of that. I don't think you have argued both sides of the coin because there actually isn't another side to argue. Yes it wouldn't be nice and it wouldn't be fair and we should absolutely be sympathetic to that but practically, there is very little that could be done because actually, there is only one side to the coin in the first place. Having said all that, I think this will quite possibly amount to nothing more than a hypothetical discussion, as foreign countries will try to welcome as many visitors as they possibly can.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Mar 6, 2021 14:05:48 GMT
Seriously. I'm not confusing anything and I'm not asking for anything, level playing field or otherwise. I couldn't give a flying fuck either way. I was offering an alternative, devils advocate viewpoint to a comment further up the board. For example, if this were an exam question, you'd argue both sides of the coin and reach a conclusion. My original 2 comments were offering a different view in direct response to a specific comment. Nothing more, nothing less. You are the one attempting into some kind of deep and meaningful debate. To address your point above, as if the likes of Greece and Turkey are going to stop anyone going into their country? More likely it will be our government who will effectively prevent travel by imposing ridiculous return quarantine rules or testing rules that add even more money to the cost of a holiday for those not vaccinated, so effectively ensuring the unlevel playing field to which you refer. Either way, watching older vaccinated people venturing abroad on holidays is sure to stick in the craw of a whole raft of people who have sacrificed a hell of a lot on something that was likely to have zero impact on them. Who could blame them for feeling like that?Nobody and there hasn't been anybody who has suggested that it it's not fair but beyond winging about it, there's nothing that could be done about it. As I said to you right at the beginning, I assumed that you believed that it is what it is and we move on. The who pandemic has been unfair for many people on many levels and this would be yet just another example of that. I don't think you have argued both sides of the coin because there actually isn't another side to argue. Yes it wouldn't be nice and it wouldn't be fair and we should absolutely be sympathetic to that but practically, there is very little that could be done because actually, there is only one side to the coin in the first place. Having said all that, I think this will quite possibly amount to nothing more than a hypothetical discussion, as foreign countries will try to welcome as many visitors as they possibly can. I haven't tried to argue both sides of the coin. I put the other side of the coin out in response to one specific comment which is exactly what I said to you at the outset. Anyhow, team news is out now so we've something more important to moan about!
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 6, 2021 14:11:51 GMT
Nobody and there hasn't been anybody who has suggested that it it's not fair but beyond winging about it, there's nothing that could be done about it. As I said to you right at the beginning, I assumed that you believed that it is what it is and we move on. The who pandemic has been unfair for many people on many levels and this would be yet just another example of that. I don't think you have argued both sides of the coin because there actually isn't another side to argue. Yes it wouldn't be nice and it wouldn't be fair and we should absolutely be sympathetic to that but practically, there is very little that could be done because actually, there is only one side to the coin in the first place. Having said all that, I think this will quite possibly amount to nothing more than a hypothetical discussion, as foreign countries will try to welcome as many visitors as they possibly can. I haven't tried to argue both sides of the coin. I put the other side of the coin out in response to one specific comment which is exactly what I said to you at the outset. Anyhow, team news is out now so we've something more important to moan about! See you on the other thread mate!
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Mar 6, 2021 14:25:30 GMT
The thing is if another country decides to impose a vaccine passport of some sort neither you nor the government can do anything about it and if a business in the UK makes vaccination a condition of entry/employment the government would have to implement a new law to make it illegal which they are very unlikely to do as that would infringe on the rights of the business to determine how it wants to operate. Some countries and some businesses will decide to impose restrictions and others won't. If you choose not to have the jab that's your call but to expect the world to adapt to your decision is just unreasonable and unrealistic. If you decide not to have the jab then be prepared to live with the consequences - you're not going to have any choice in the matter anyway.?? I have no choice?? Please explain You can choose not to be vaccinated but if you do there could well be consequences in terms of what you are allowed to do. You have no choice as to whether other countries or businesses decide to impose restrictions on people who decide not to be vaccinated. If you don't want to be vaccinated and can live with the possible consequences that's fine. All I'm saying is that it's unrealistic to expect that deciding not have the jab won't be consequence free . Not having the jab could well mean you won't be allowed to do everything you might want to do - and there's nothing you can do about it.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Mar 6, 2021 14:41:10 GMT
He added that Britons wanting to enter Greece this summer will need one of the following: a certificate showing they have been vaccinated; proof that they have antibodies against the virus; OR A TEST TO SHOW THEY ARE NEGATIVE.
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Post by superjw on Mar 6, 2021 14:54:28 GMT
Sensible approach this from Greece, vaccinating the places and people that drive tourism over there so they can get their summer season under way. I have a booking to Greece for start of July, watching how this plays out very closely as I could still go even if I'm not vaccinated by then.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Mar 6, 2021 14:57:05 GMT
Sensible approach this from Greece, vaccinating the places and people that drive tourism over there so they can get their summer season under way. I have a booking to Greece for start of July, watching how this plays out very closely as I could still go even if I'm not vaccinated by then. I'm sure you'll be fine
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Post by superjw on Mar 6, 2021 15:07:31 GMT
Sensible approach this from Greece, vaccinating the places and people that drive tourism over there so they can get their summer season under way. I have a booking to Greece for start of July, watching how this plays out very closely as I could still go even if I'm not vaccinated by then. I'm sure you'll be fine I'm more hopeful than I was a few weeks back now I've seen what Greece are proposing. I won't have had both jabs by then so a negative test it will be for me.
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Post by mtrstudent on Mar 6, 2021 15:34:14 GMT
?? I have no choice?? Please explain You can choose not to be vaccinated but if you do there could well be consequences in terms of what you are allowed to do. You have no choice as to whether other countries or businesses decide to impose restrictions on people who decide not to be vaccinated. If you don't want to be vaccinated and can live with the possible consequences that's fine. All I'm saying is that it's unrealistic to expect that deciding not have the jab won't be consequence free . Not having the jab could well mean you won't be allowed to do everything you might want to do - and there's nothing you can do about it. The government can't (and shouldn't) make them take it, but by not getting it you're also helping it the virus spread, killing more Brits and hurting the economy even more. So it's not just the vaccine refusers taking the risk of consequences for themselves, they're making things shitter for everyone else too.
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Post by westlandstokie on Mar 6, 2021 16:00:40 GMT
You can choose not to be vaccinated but if you do there could well be consequences in terms of what you are allowed to do. You have no choice as to whether other countries or businesses decide to impose restrictions on people who decide not to be vaccinated. If you don't want to be vaccinated and can live with the possible consequences that's fine. All I'm saying is that it's unrealistic to expect that deciding not have the jab won't be consequence free . Not having the jab could well mean you won't be allowed to do everything you might want to do - and there's nothing you can do about it. The government can't (and shouldn't) make them take it, but by not getting it you're also helping it the virus spread, killing more Brits and hurting the economy even more. So it's not just the vaccine refusers taking the risk of consequences for themselves, they're making things shitter for everyone else too. I was under the impression you can catch AND spread the virus even if you are vaccinated ?
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Mar 6, 2021 16:03:58 GMT
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Post by mtrstudent on Mar 6, 2021 16:13:35 GMT
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Post by mutters on Mar 6, 2021 16:38:49 GMT
?? I have no choice?? Please explain Well, here in Sweden they have started discussions about preventing not vaccinated people from entering theaters, cinemas, concerts and sport events. Worse than apartheid. Disgraceful, if that is the route they are going down.
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