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Post by jeycov on Mar 21, 2020 16:35:11 GMT
Most informative description I have read so far! Shared by an NHS colleague to a Coronavirus Group, set up to share advice and support for NHS staff 👍🏻 Feeling confused as to why Coronavirus is a bigger deal than Seasonal flu? Here it is in a nutshell. I hope this helps. Feel free to share this to others who don’t understand... It has to do with RNA sequencing.... I.e. genetics. Seasonal flu is an “all human virus”. The DNA/RNA chains that make up the virus are recognized by the human immune system. This means that your body has some immunity to it before it comes around each year... you get immunity two ways...through exposure to a virus, or by getting a flu shot. Novel viruses, come from animals.... the WHO tracks novel viruses in animals, (sometimes for years watching for mutations). Usually these viruses only transfer from animal to animal (pigs in the case of H1N1) (birds in the case of the Spanish flu). But once, one of these animal viruses mutates, and starts to transfer from animals to humans... then it’s a problem, Why? Because we have no natural or acquired immunity.. the RNA sequencing of the genes inside the virus isn’t human, and the human immune system doesn’t recognize it so, we can’t fight it off. Now.... sometimes, the mutation only allows transfer from animal to human, for years it’s only transmission is from an infected animal to a human before it finally mutates so that it can now transfer human to human... once that happens..we have a new contagion phase. And depending on the fashion of this new mutation, thats what decides how contagious, or how deadly it’s gonna be.. H1N1 was deadly....but it did not mutate in a way that was as deadly as the Spanish flu. It’s RNA was slower to mutate and it attacked its host differently, too. Fast forward. Now, here comes this Coronavirus... it existed in animals only, for nobody knows how long...but one day, at an animal market, in Wuhan China, in December 2019, it mutated and made the jump from animal to people. At first, only animals could give it to a person... But here is the scary part.... in just TWO WEEKS it mutated again and gained the ability to jump from human to human. Scientists call this quick ability, “slippery” This Coronavirus, not being in any form a “human” virus (whereas we would all have some natural or acquired immunity). Took off like a rocket. And this was because, Humans have no known immunity...doctors have no known medicines for it. And it just so happens that this particular mutated animal virus, changed itself in such a way the way that it causes great damage to human lungs.. That’s why Coronavirus is different from seasonal flu, or H1N1 or any other type of influenza.... this one is slippery AF. And it’s a lung eater...And, it’s already mutated AGAIN, so that we now have two strains to deal with, strain s, and strain L....which makes it twice as hard to develop a vaccine. We really have no tools in our shed, with this. History has shown that fast and immediate closings of public places has helped in the past pandemics. Philadelphia and Baltimore were reluctant to close events in 1918 and they were the hardest hit in the US during the Spanish Flu. Factoid: Henry VIII stayed in his room and allowed no one near him, till the Black Plague passed...(honestly...I understand him so much better now). Just like us, he had no tools in his shed, except social isolation... And let me end by saying....right now it’s hitting older folks harder... but this genome is so slippery...if it mutates again (and it will). Who is to say, what it will do next. Be smart folks... acting like you’re unafraid is so not sexy right now. #flattenthecurve. Stay home folks... and share this to those that just are not catching on. |
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Post by mtrstudent on Mar 21, 2020 16:37:18 GMT
In a time of crisis, bringing politics into it to bash a particular individual or party says more about the opposition imo. I think that if the response is so outrageously bungled that it's literally going to kill lots and lots of people through sheer incompetence then it's absolutely important to slam the leaders. Failed morons don't get a free pass just because there's an emergency on, that way lies fascism. They need to be removed & replaced asap. I have plenty of criticisms for Johnson's response but I'm thankful that the government allowed scientific evidence to come out and even changed course completely based on the evidence. Some will criticise that as a flip flop, but fuck you in that case, because good leaders should change course when new info arrives. Overall leaders should be open to criticism because of this crisis, but Johnson's government has been far from outrageously incompetent. This is a crazy difficult time that needed actions beyond anything outside war. Criticising policies to try and force changes (e.g. getting help faster to the self employed) is good, but he doesn't need to be removed asap so the political point scoring should wait IMO. And I'm not exactly what you'd call a Johnson fan. |
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Post by Gods on Mar 21, 2020 16:38:45 GMT
Thinking about the death stats and looking for context.
There were 616,014 deaths registered in the UK in 2018.
If the Chief Medical Officers hope that corona kills 20,000 in the UK proves correct then you'd be looking at an increment of about 12 days worth of regular deaths. You can see why that might be thought of as a 'result' in the current circumstances.
I guess there is quite some collateral damage too. Are the numerous others diseases which take out the 616,014 being as well treated as so much resource is directed to corona? And what of the mental health of a populous in isolation, it must take a withering toll? And of course crashing the economy causes impoverishment which in turn kills.
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Mar 21, 2020 16:47:46 GMT
Tbf there were still cases of the black death upto the 20th century. Just to clear this very important point up.  The Black Death was a specific (and probably the worst) outbreak of Bubonic Plague in the 14th century killing around half of Europe's population. Bubonic Plague otherwise known as The Pestilence or The Black Plague continued to periodically ravage Europe albeit to a lesser degree until the late 17th century. The Great Plague of London for example in 1665 'only' killed about 100,000. So it is therefore quite feasible that during the reign of Henry viii in the first half of the 16th century there would have been several 'Black Plague' epidemics which he may have avoided by social exclusion. Interesting or what? |
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Post by march4 on Mar 21, 2020 16:48:30 GMT
In all fairness only the first paragraph is mine, it’s not a message of hopelessness, it’s one of the scientific facts to date. I agree that the “no tools “ statement is possibly slightly too harsh, but having witnessed that complete bellend Tim Martin on sky news this morning trying to tell people that you can’t catch the virus in a pub, perhaps the above is the balance on the scales that is required. Stay safe Oh - and one other fun fact - the reign of Henry VIII was two hundred years after the Black Death. It was Sweating Sickness during his reign that killed many folk. |
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Post by mtrstudent on Mar 21, 2020 16:49:37 GMT
546 dead in a single day in one province of Italy. It just keeps getting worse and worse. I have the fondest memories of time in Lombardy with my ex and her family, it's like a new heartbreak every day. I'm pretty sure this is gonna happen somewhere at home, but I have no idea - will it be London, Manchester, Stoke? Stay home if you can everyone.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Mar 21, 2020 16:50:01 GMT
I've been reliably told that the hoarders have cleared the shelves of Tampons  Not just the old folk then..... |
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Post by zerps on Mar 21, 2020 16:51:34 GMT
Tbf there were still cases of the black death upto the 20th century. Just to clear this very important point up. The Black Death was a specific (and probably the worst) outbreak of Bubonic Plague in the 14th century killing around half of Europe's population. Bubonic Plague otherwise known as The Pestilence or The Black Plague continued to periodically ravage Europe albeit to a lesser degree until the late 17th century. The Great Plague of London for example in 1665 'only' killed about 100,000. So it is therefore quite feasible that during the reign of Henry viii in the first half of the 16th century there would have been several 'Black Plague' epidemics which he may have avoided by social exclusion. Interesting or what? That’s what I said, probably 👀😄 Definitely interesting mate |
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Mar 21, 2020 16:52:35 GMT
Just to clear this very important point up. The Black Death was a specific (and probably the worst) outbreak of Bubonic Plague in the 14th century killing around half of Europe's population. Bubonic Plague otherwise known as The Pestilence or The Black Plague continued to periodically ravage Europe albeit to a lesser degree until the late 17th century. The Great Plague of London for example in 1665 'only' killed about 100,000. So it is therefore quite feasible that during the reign of Henry viii in the first half of the 16th century there would have been several 'Black Plague' epidemics which he may have avoided by social exclusion. Interesting or what? That’s what I said, probably 👀😄 Definitely interesting mate  |
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Post by adi on Mar 21, 2020 16:54:20 GMT
In a time of crisis, bringing politics into it to bash a particular individual or party says more about the opposition imo. I think that if the response is so outrageously bungled that it's literally going to kill lots and lots of people through sheer incompetence then it's absolutely important to slam the leaders. Failed morons don't get a free pass just because there's an emergency on, that way lies fascism. They need to be removed & replaced asap. I have plenty of criticisms for Johnson's response but I'm thankful that the government allowed scientific evidence to come out and even changed course completely based on the evidence. Some will criticise that as a flip flop, but fuck you in that case, because good leaders should change course when new info arrives. Overall leaders should be open to criticism because of this crisis, but Johnson's government has been far from outrageously incompetent. This is a crazy difficult time that needed actions beyond anything outside war. Criticising policies to try and force changes (e.g. getting help faster to the self employed) is good, but he doesn't need to be removed asap so the political point scoring should wait IMO. And I'm not exactly what you'd call a Johnson fan. I’m glad that there is some balance in terms of praise. I just find it very low and sad to make it political, and whilst I’m not entirely surprised to hear it, it still saddens me that people lower themselves in unprecedented times. |
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Post by leicspotter on Mar 21, 2020 17:03:38 GMT
Having read most of this thread (but I've forgotten most of it), I reckon we'll have to start having slots booked by the Sir Stan to settle some scores when this is all over. Either that or we can have a 'settling scores day' actually in the ground. I can just see it now. The ground is packed. 28,000 rabid Stokies, slobbering like wild dogs, packed into every seat. (Tickets were sold out in 24 hours after Mr Scholes introduced a range of rare element cards for priority seating.) That bloke who normally announces stuff gets ready. Pottermus is in overdrive trying to make things even worse - rabid-dogwise. Then a deathly silence comes over the place. "Laydeeeeeeees and Geeeeeeentlemen... we have our first bout. In the blue corner by the north scoreboard we have Old Clem... the chap who puts his bins out only when he sees the bloke who lives over the chip shop that cooks stuff using lard and not this modern oil crap do it. And in the red corner by the south scoreboard we have the rotund Sheik Momo, the left winger and Trotskyist of The Oatcake." The place erupts. Old Clem, fists raised in the air, gives the crowd a massive grin, revealing a set of false gnashers that he's honed to look like sharks' teeth with a double-cut and rasp file. Over in the other corner, Victor Momo does a sort of African tribal dance but falls over due to his rotundidity. But he bounces up again like a rubber ball, displaying his unbelievable agility for such a rotund person. "Laydeeeeeees and Gentleeeeemen.... let the battle commence" The two 'warriors' approach the centre circle... snarling at each other like a pair of complete Jack Russells. Round and round they go without encroaching into the circle. After thirty minutes of this and the crowd baying, "Handbags! Handbags! Handbags!", the bloke who announces stuff yells into his mike, "Laydeeeeees and Gentleeeeemen! The contest is a draw. (Both combatants retire to their respective scoreboards.) I now introduce the next opponents. By the scoreboard in the south corner we have Felonious...."  OS. This could be the start of a new "epic" a la Good Ship... BTW the Stadium announcer is Steve Buxton aka Bucko...good lad, but strangely doesn't wear socks...  |
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Post by MilanStokie on Mar 21, 2020 17:06:32 GMT
546 dead in a single day in one province of Italy. It just keeps getting worse and worse. I have the fondest memories of time in Lombardy with my ex and her family, it's like a new heartbreak every day. I'm pretty sure this is gonna happen somewhere at home, but I have no idea - will it be London, Manchester, Stoke? Stay home if you can everyone. Think that's just s recap of yesterday. The new figures are out shortly via civil protection officer. I'm expecting 700+. |
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Post by mtrstudent on Mar 21, 2020 17:07:07 GMT
I think that if the response is so outrageously bungled that it's literally going to kill lots and lots of people through sheer incompetence then it's absolutely important to slam the leaders. Failed morons don't get a free pass just because there's an emergency on, that way lies fascism. They need to be removed & replaced asap. I have plenty of criticisms for Johnson's response but I'm thankful that the government allowed scientific evidence to come out and even changed course completely based on the evidence. Some will criticise that as a flip flop, but fuck you in that case, because good leaders should change course when new info arrives. Overall leaders should be open to criticism because of this crisis, but Johnson's government has been far from outrageously incompetent. This is a crazy difficult time that needed actions beyond anything outside war. Criticising policies to try and force changes (e.g. getting help faster to the self employed) is good, but he doesn't need to be removed asap so the political point scoring should wait IMO. And I'm not exactly what you'd call a Johnson fan. I’m glad that there is some balance in terms of praise. I just find it very low and sad to make it political, and whilst I’m not entirely surprised to hear it, it still saddens me that people lower themselves in unprecedented times. I know what you mean, but I'm scared about crises being used in the opposite way too: to silence dissent, take away freedoms, propagandise for the leader instead of the country etc. I'm stuck in the US and am off the meter pissed that the Trump party classified the info, slowed down tests and lied to normal people for weeks ( they'll give you more honest info if you're the "right" sort of people though)... all so they could dump their own stocks. My girlfriend is going to be front line on this if (when?) it spreads to her area, and there's a good chance their fucking around will mean she either ends up on a respirator or deciding that dozens of people have to be left to die just a year after she left med school. She's strong as fuck but this could be brutal on her just so that some rich people could keep more money. That level of shit does not apply to in the slightest way to the UK government, so the focus should be fully on pushing for the best policy instead of getting in cheap shots at the leaders IMO. |
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Post by mtrstudent on Mar 21, 2020 17:08:42 GMT
546 dead in a single day in one province of Italy. It just keeps getting worse and worse. I have the fondest memories of time in Lombardy with my ex and her family, it's like a new heartbreak every day. I'm pretty sure this is gonna happen somewhere at home, but I have no idea - will it be London, Manchester, Stoke? Stay home if you can everyone. Think that's just s recap of yesterday. The new figures are out shortly via civil protection officer. I'm expecting 700+. I hope I misread. That they said 25k+ positive in Lombardy alone made me think it was all for Lombardy, sometimes La Repubblica puts up the numbers before the data tables go out. EDIT: NOPE, it's Lombardy only: "Sono 546 le persone decedute in Lombardia nelle ultime 24 ore per Covid-19" "546 dead of Covid-19 in Lombardy in the last 24 hours" I read it right first time  |
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Post by MilanStokie on Mar 21, 2020 17:10:24 GMT
793 dead today in Italy...
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Mar 21, 2020 17:12:09 GMT
Having read most of this thread (but I've forgotten most of it), I reckon we'll have to start having slots booked by the Sir Stan to settle some scores when this is all over. Either that or we can have a 'settling scores day' actually in the ground. I can just see it now. The ground is packed. 28,000 rabid Stokies, slobbering like wild dogs, packed into every seat. (Tickets were sold out in 24 hours after Mr Scholes introduced a range of rare element cards for priority seating.) That bloke who normally announces stuff gets ready. Pottermus is in overdrive trying to make things even worse - rabid-dogwise. Then a deathly silence comes over the place. "Laydeeeeeeees and Geeeeeeentlemen... we have our first bout. In the blue corner by the north scoreboard we have Old Clem... the chap who puts his bins out only when he sees the bloke who lives over the chip shop that cooks stuff using lard and not this modern oil crap do it. And in the red corner by the south scoreboard we have the rotund Sheik Momo, the left winger and Trotskyist of The Oatcake." The place erupts. Old Clem, fists raised in the air, gives the crowd a massive grin, revealing a set of false gnashers that he's honed to look like sharks' teeth with a double-cut and rasp file. Over in the other corner, Victor Momo does a sort of African tribal dance but falls over due to his rotundidity. But he bounces up again like a rubber ball, displaying his unbelievable agility for such a rotund person. "Laydeeeeeees and Gentleeeeemen.... let the battle commence" The two 'warriors' approach the centre circle... snarling at each other like a pair of complete Jack Russells. Round and round they go without encroaching into the circle. After thirty minutes of this and the crowd baying, "Handbags! Handbags! Handbags!", the bloke who announces stuff yells into his mike, "Laydeeeeees and Gentleeeeemen! The contest is a draw. (Both combatants retire to their respective scoreboards.) I now introduce the next opponents. By the scoreboard in the south corner we have Felonious...." OS. This could be the start of a new "epic" a la Good Ship... BTW the Stadium announcer is Steve Buxton aka Bucko...good lad, but strangely doesn't wear socks... Great random trivial fact.  |
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Mar 21, 2020 17:13:19 GMT
793 dead today in Italy... Shit mate that's terrible. When will it end? Is it still mainly concentrated in the north or everywhere now? Edit. If students figures are correct then 2/3 of those were in Lombardy alone!!! |
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Post by MilanStokie on Mar 21, 2020 17:13:52 GMT
Think that's just s recap of yesterday. The new figures are out shortly via civil protection officer. I'm expecting 700+. I hope I misread. That they said 25k+ positive in Lombardy alone made me think it was all for Lombardy, sometimes La Repubblica puts up the numbers before the data tables go out. EDIT: NOPE, it's Lombardy only: "Sono 546 le persone decedute in Lombardia nelle ultime 24 ore per Covid-19" "546 dead of Covid-19 in Lombardy in the last 24 hours" I read it right first time It could refer to today or yesterday. Usually figures are released live at around 6.10 Anyway 793... It's unstoppable |
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Post by FullerMagic on Mar 21, 2020 17:14:30 GMT
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Post by MilanStokie on Mar 21, 2020 17:14:41 GMT
793 dead today in Italy... Shit mate that's terrible. When will it end? Is it still mainly concentrated in the north or everywhere now? Largely north and even more specific to lombardy, milan and surrounding area and Bergamo the worst hit. |
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Post by mtrstudent on Mar 21, 2020 17:14:59 GMT
793 dead today in Italy... Number in intensive therapy up again in Lombardy, so there's no sign of it being over yet. Once again, good luck & all my best wishes. |
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Post by MilanStokie on Mar 21, 2020 17:17:00 GMT
793 dead today in Italy... Number in intensive therapy up again in Lombardy, so there's no sign of it being over yet. Once again, good luck & all my best wishes. The prediction was mid April again, now they are saying they have no idea when the peak will be, as in this is going on into may. Sorry guys but you are in for a rough ride starting in around a week. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2020 17:17:34 GMT
793.
Sweet Jesus.
Frightening.
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Post by mtrstudent on Mar 21, 2020 17:18:10 GMT
793 dead today in Italy... Shit mate that's terrible. When will it end? Is it still mainly concentrated in the north or everywhere now? Dominated by the north, especially Lombardy. Southernmost region with 100+ total deaths is Marche, which is on the right hand side, sort of across from Florence and still north of Rome. |
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Mar 21, 2020 17:19:20 GMT
Shit mate that's terrible. When will it end? Is it still mainly concentrated in the north or everywhere now? Largely north and even more specific to lombardy, milan and surrounding area and Bergamo the worst hit. I've just edited my post. If Students figures are right 2/3 of the deaths are in Lombardy alone. Why? What are they doing or not doing in Lombardy? That's horrific. Just take care. |
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Post by felonious on Mar 21, 2020 17:19:56 GMT
I've been reliably told that the hoarders have cleared the shelves of Tampons Not just the old folk then..... It could be ladies with dementia |
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Post by jarhead on Mar 21, 2020 17:21:06 GMT
I'll be honest, we have a feeling that the walls are closing in, feels like it's only a matter of time... Extremely odd feeling. I have an autoimmune disease that has an issue with vasculitis and directly affects the lungs so I am very worried all the time. Personally I've not left my property now since I packed my stuff up to work from home 11 days ago. My partner shops and I stay at home with the kids. I'm now worried for my parents who own their own small business in Fenton and can't yet afford to shut up shop. I need them to close the doors and go home... They are 70. Hanging in as best we can. It really did choke me reading this. I hope you and your family stay as safe as you can mate. If it’s not hitting home about the vulnerable now then it never will, please read this. Hard hitting. Milan. You stay bloody strong mate and safe and to all of your family. We will get through this as will you and your family. |
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Post by MilanStokie on Mar 21, 2020 17:22:26 GMT
Largely north and even more specific to lombardy, milan and surrounding area and Bergamo the worst hit. I've just edited my post. If Students figures are right 2/3 of the deaths are in Lombardy alone. Why? What are they doing or not doing in Lombardy? That's horrific. Just take care. Lombardy is the region where the first domestic outbreaks started and they were never able to identify patient zero. Lord knows what damage has been done but that's why Lombardy is worst hit. |
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Post by FullerMagic on Mar 21, 2020 17:24:42 GMT
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Mar 21, 2020 17:27:42 GMT
I've just edited my post. If Students figures are right 2/3 of the deaths are in Lombardy alone. Why? What are they doing or not doing in Lombardy? That's horrific. Just take care. Lombardy is the region where the first domestic outbreaks started and they were never able to identify patient zero. Lord knows what damage has been done but that's why Lombardy is worst hit. I don't know why I liked it because I don't like it at all. It's bloody terrifying. Is everyone observing the lockdown or are they doing the usual Italian 'shrug and carry on' thing? |
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