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Post by musik on Jan 13, 2021 23:39:11 GMT
Latest
Sweden have so far got 80000 people vaccinated and out of these 80000 people 40 have reported side effects, including 17 severe cases.
One got an allergic shock.
One has got facial paralysis.
There have also been 7 death cases. However these are still under examination, so they could have died and probably did die of something else.
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Post by Hackett on Jan 13, 2021 23:44:02 GMT
So why are all the people who have been posting for months about the overreaction to Covid either stopped posting or are posting increasingly irrelevant crap? To avoid admitting they got it completely wrong? No shame in admitting to being wrong. What is shameful is advocating policies and behaviours that will make a shit situation worse when it's bleeding obvious that that is what would happen. Is saving face really that important? It really is to some on here yes. Rather than just apologise or stop posting at all they just find other angles and nonsense to post thinking they're being clever. Its called arrogance and I'm just glad I don't know these people personally. |
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Post by stokeykez on Jan 13, 2021 23:44:35 GMT
Latest Sweden have so far got 80000 people vaccinated and out of these 80000 people 40 have reported side effects, including 17 severe cases. One got an allergic shock. One has got face paralyzation. There have also been 7 death cases. However these are still under examination, so they could have died and probably did die of something else. Bells palsy is a very rare side effect, anaphylaxis can occur, this is all within the realms of side effects. These side effects will occur. The 7 deaths cannot be linked as a direct result of inoculation or given the thousands of volunteers that were given the jab over the countries they were there would be more deaths than the 0 reported. |
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Post by Gods on Jan 13, 2021 23:54:46 GMT
So why are all the people who have been posting for months about the overreaction to Covid either stopped posting or are posting increasingly irrelevant crap? To avoid admitting they got it completely wrong? No shame in admitting to being wrong. What is shameful is advocating policies and behaviours that will make a shit situation worse when it's bleeding obvious that that is what would happen. Is saving face really that important? Sadly they bought and recycled this kind of shit from Michael Yeadon in his October Blog post: The coronavirus pandemic is “effectively over” in the United Kingdom and “there is absolutely no need for vaccines."I suppose I'm not sure if I'd shout it from the roof tops if I got scammed by a con man on the internet. |
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Post by dutchstokie on Jan 14, 2021 0:05:00 GMT
So why are all the people who have been posting for months about the overreaction to Covid either stopped posting or are posting increasingly irrelevant crap? To avoid admitting they got it completely wrong? No shame in admitting to being wrong. What is shameful is advocating policies and behaviours that will make a shit situation worse when it's bleeding obvious that that is what would happen. Is saving face really that important? I’ve taken a break from the internet and sanctimonious social justice warriors in an effort to try and stay sane and therefore alive, you know being mentally ill and all. This isn’t a fucking pissing contest as much as you want it to be. Good to see you back marra ! 👍 |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 14, 2021 0:14:45 GMT
Just got Sky News on now ...
"Public Health England have carried out a huge comprehensive study, which suggests that contracting Coronavirus, gives at least as good an immune defence against future infections as a vaccine. Prior illness provided around 85% protection against asymptomatic and symptomatic reinfection."
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 14, 2021 0:31:00 GMT
So why are all the people who have been posting for months about the overreaction to Covid either stopped posting or are posting increasingly irrelevant crap? To avoid admitting they got it completely wrong? No shame in admitting to being wrong. What is shameful is advocating policies and behaviours that will make a shit situation worse when it's bleeding obvious that that is what would happen. Is saving face really that important? Sadly they bought and recycled this kind of shit from Michael Yeadon in his October Blog post: The coronavirus pandemic is “effectively over” in the United Kingdom and “there is absolutely no need for vaccines."I suppose I'm not sure if I'd shout it from the roof tops if I got scammed by a con man on the internet. Again. I’ve been in the middle of the two factions on this. I think both sides have made good arguments tbh. And I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle. It definitely hasn’t been as bad as the models and all that shit predicted it would be. But it’s definitely been bad. I do struggle to square a lot of what has gone on though when the average of those that are dying from it is at or above the average age of death in the country. And I honestly don’t think there’s that good of an argument when you look at it like that to justify what’s happening. And that’s not to say these people aren’t important. They totally are. And more efforts needed to be done to protect them from the get go. But from the off I would have done things differently from the govt. And that’s how I judge things. What would I do? This is a kind of timeline/recollection of where I’ve been and my contrasting thoughts on it. I remember joking about it in January. The Hull game I have never noticed so many blokes washing their hands. Grim bastards from before. In March I would have shut the country at least a week sooner and I think that would have made a big difference. And I would have done it hard to try and eliminate it. No flights in or out at that point bar for repatriation. But still not great and still too late but I’m being honest. I honestly think they went for herd immunity without a vaccine which is daft. I think they opened up the north too soon hence why it never really went from Manchester in the summer. Schools should not have opened in September as they did. Clearly was always going to be a fuck up with no social distancing in place. The lockdown in November was a farce. Christmas should have been banned from the get go. And I’m not sure this lockdown is needed either despite what’s going on. Since September we needed to ration school essentially, find a way of actually perfecting care homes and get track and trace working. They are the 3 biggest fuck ups imo and all avoidable and all I can say aren’t hindsight. I think the mass testing is bollocks mind. See www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4851 A massive waste of money that is very debatable as to whether it’s actually helping anything. The emergence of the NHS as a big a problem as anything as a vector for this thing is deeply concerning too. The infections that are occurring in hospitals should be national news with people that get paid lots of money being forced to find ways of sorting it. Instead we seem to have a head in the sand mentality that doesn’t want to talk about anything that is diverging from the norm. Which is such a bad and dangerous mentality to have. A third of deaths from care homes too. Why aren’t people talking about that? The NHS and care homes infections are something we should be able to control and we are failing. So far from seeing both sides on this thread and thinking that there’s some great and some utter tripe on both sides the biggest thing that stuck out for me was Paul posting a link to a doctor in NY in about April. He had been pilloried for suggesting ventilators weren’t the best way to treat this and that actually it was more than a long disease. The bloke was passionate, he clearly wasn’t a crank and he cared about those he was treating and those he had lost. But people weren’t listening because it didn’t conform to the popular belief. From what I can gather his beliefs and what he was witnessing is far closer to what is considered the better treatment now and ventilators are the last resort whereas they were the go to, the saviour to start with. So I guess what I’m saying is I just wish more people would open their eyes to both sides of it because actually past the entrenched modernity of the argument where either side isn’t for turning, there is actually good stuff on both sides. And by good stuff, I mean thought provoking, viewpoint altering stuff. But quite a lot of people from either side don’t want to hear it. It’s the same for the wider world too. And I honestly think it’s a really fucking shit place to be and not how to look at anything. |
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Post by stokeykez on Jan 14, 2021 0:38:20 GMT
Just got Sky News on now ... "Public Health England have carried out a huge comprehensive study, which suggests that contracting Coronavirus, gives at least as good an immune defence against future infections as a vaccine. Prior illness provided around 85% protection against asymptomatic and symptomatic reinfection." Good that immunity comes from such an awful disease but does not stop possible transmission. I would still rather have a vaccine than covid |
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Post by mtrstudent on Jan 14, 2021 1:45:49 GMT
Because its camera crew will not be sitting holding their hand, and crying, hugging and wanting that final touch like so many poor families want at the end of their loved ones life. It's a horrible situation for anyone with loved ones in hospitals. But it's 100s of camera crews to get the news out versus visitors for each of the 300k patients admitted and it doesn't seem crazy to let in the media but not family. Horrible and it feels unfair, but it might end up saving lives if the news makes people careful. |
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Post by westlandstokie on Jan 14, 2021 7:03:28 GMT
I read on here that some of you have been invited for a flu jab. My invite came in the post yesterday too...first one for me as I’m just in the age range.
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Post by pipegatepotter on Jan 14, 2021 7:16:23 GMT
I read on here that some of you have been invited for a flu jab. My invite came in the post yesterday too...first one for me as I’m just in the age range. Yes, I had my first ever flu jab this week. She said they had brought the age down this year. In and out in about 2 minutes. |
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Post by hcstokie on Jan 14, 2021 7:27:22 GMT
Sadly they bought and recycled this kind of shit from Michael Yeadon in his October Blog post: The coronavirus pandemic is “effectively over” in the United Kingdom and “there is absolutely no need for vaccines."I suppose I'm not sure if I'd shout it from the roof tops if I got scammed by a con man on the internet. Again. I’ve been in the middle of the two factions on this. I think both sides have made good arguments tbh. And I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle. It definitely hasn’t been as bad as the models and all that shit predicted it would be. But it’s definitely been bad. I do struggle to square a lot of what has gone on though when the average of those that are dying from it is at or above the average age of death in the country. And I honestly don’t think there’s that good of an argument when you look at it like that to justify what’s happening. And that’s not to say these people aren’t important. They totally are. And more efforts needed to be done to protect them from the get go. But from the off I would have done things differently from the govt. And that’s how I judge things. What would I do? This is a kind of timeline/recollection of where I’ve been and my contrasting thoughts on it. I remember joking about it in January. The Hull game I have never noticed so many blokes washing their hands. Grim bastards from before. In March I would have shut the country at least a week sooner and I think that would have made a big difference. And I would have done it hard to try and eliminate it. No flights in or out at that point bar for repatriation. But still not great and still too late but I’m being honest. I honestly think they went for herd immunity without a vaccine which is daft. I think they opened up the north too soon hence why it never really went from Manchester in the summer. Schools should not have opened in September as they did. Clearly was always going to be a fuck up with no social distancing in place. The lockdown in November was a farce. Christmas should have been banned from the get go. And I’m not sure this lockdown is needed either despite what’s going on. Since September we needed to ration school essentially, find a way of actually perfecting care homes and get track and trace working. They are the 3 biggest fuck ups imo and all avoidable and all I can say aren’t hindsight. I think the mass testing is bollocks mind. See www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4851 A massive waste of money that is very debatable as to whether it’s actually helping anything. The emergence of the NHS as a big a problem as anything as a vector for this thing is deeply concerning too. The infections that are occurring in hospitals should be national news with people that get paid lots of money being forced to find ways of sorting it. Instead we seem to have a head in the sand mentality that doesn’t want to talk about anything that is diverging from the norm. Which is such a bad and dangerous mentality to have. A third of deaths from care homes too. Why aren’t people talking about that? The NHS and care homes infections are something we should be able to control and we are failing. So far from seeing both sides on this thread and thinking that there’s some great and some utter tripe on both sides the biggest thing that stuck out for me was Paul posting a link to a doctor in NY in about April. He had been pilloried for suggesting ventilators weren’t the best way to treat this and that actually it was more than a long disease. The bloke was passionate, he clearly wasn’t a crank and he cared about those he was treating and those he had lost. But people weren’t listening because it didn’t conform to the popular belief. From what I can gather his beliefs and what he was witnessing is far closer to what is considered the better treatment now and ventilators are the last resort whereas they were the go to, the saviour to start with. So I guess what I’m saying is I just wish more people would open their eyes to both sides of it because actually past the entrenched modernity of the argument where either side isn’t for turning, there is actually good stuff on both sides. And by good stuff, I mean thought provoking, viewpoint altering stuff. But quite a lot of people from either side don’t want to hear it. It’s the same for the wider world too. And I honestly think it’s a really fucking shit place to be and not how to look at anything. Brilliant post Bayern and I completely agree. This thread is a prime example of how society as a whole has lost the ability to have a reasoned debate to come to a consensus. Nowadays there is no middle ground, you’re either right or wrong and for the most part both sides stoically refuse to budge and even acknowledge merit in an alternate point of view. We’ve seen this with COVID, Brexit, the US election. The woke nonsense where people so politically correct and enlightened demonise anyone with an alternate opinion and demand they be ‘cancelled’ whilst ironically assaulting a cornerstone of democracy and enlightenment, freedom of speech. It’s a sorry state of affairs because like you have said, in the discussions on this thread there’s merits to both arguments but more often than not the battle lines get drawn up and the bullets start being fired instead of people listening to each other. |
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Post by wagsastokie on Jan 14, 2021 7:31:36 GMT
Sadly they bought and recycled this kind of shit from Michael Yeadon in his October Blog post: The coronavirus pandemic is “effectively over” in the United Kingdom and “there is absolutely no need for vaccines."I suppose I'm not sure if I'd shout it from the roof tops if I got scammed by a con man on the internet. Again. I’ve been in the middle of the two factions on this. I think both sides have made good arguments tbh. And I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle. It definitely hasn’t been as bad as the models and all that shit predicted it would be. But it’s definitely been bad. I do struggle to square a lot of what has gone on though when the average of those that are dying from it is at or above the average age of death in the country. And I honestly don’t think there’s that good of an argument when you look at it like that to justify what’s happening. And that’s not to say these people aren’t important. They totally are. And more efforts needed to be done to protect them from the get go. But from the off I would have done things differently from the govt. And that’s how I judge things. What would I do? This is a kind of timeline/recollection of where I’ve been and my contrasting thoughts on it. I remember joking about it in January. The Hull game I have never noticed so many blokes washing their hands. Grim bastards from before. In March I would have shut the country at least a week sooner and I think that would have made a big difference. And I would have done it hard to try and eliminate it. No flights in or out at that point bar for repatriation. But still not great and still too late but I’m being honest. I honestly think they went for herd immunity without a vaccine which is daft. I think they opened up the north too soon hence why it never really went from Manchester in the summer. Schools should not have opened in September as they did. Clearly was always going to be a fuck up with no social distancing in place. The lockdown in November was a farce. Christmas should have been banned from the get go. And I’m not sure this lockdown is needed either despite what’s going on. Since September we needed to ration school essentially, find a way of actually perfecting care homes and get track and trace working. They are the 3 biggest fuck ups imo and all avoidable and all I can say aren’t hindsight. I think the mass testing is bollocks mind. See www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4851 A massive waste of money that is very debatable as to whether it’s actually helping anything. The emergence of the NHS as a big a problem as anything as a vector for this thing is deeply concerning too. The infections that are occurring in hospitals should be national news with people that get paid lots of money being forced to find ways of sorting it. Instead we seem to have a head in the sand mentality that doesn’t want to talk about anything that is diverging from the norm. Which is such a bad and dangerous mentality to have. A third of deaths from care homes too. Why aren’t people talking about that? The NHS and care homes infections are something we should be able to control and we are failing. So far from seeing both sides on this thread and thinking that there’s some great and some utter tripe on both sides the biggest thing that stuck out for me was Paul posting a link to a doctor in NY in about April. He had been pilloried for suggesting ventilators weren’t the best way to treat this and that actually it was more than a long disease. The bloke was passionate, he clearly wasn’t a crank and he cared about those he was treating and those he had lost. But people weren’t listening because it didn’t conform to the popular belief. From what I can gather his beliefs and what he was witnessing is far closer to what is considered the better treatment now and ventilators are the last resort whereas they were the go to, the saviour to start with. So I guess what I’m saying is I just wish more people would open their eyes to both sides of it because actually past the entrenched modernity of the argument where either side isn’t for turning, there is actually good stuff on both sides. And by good stuff, I mean thought provoking, viewpoint altering stuff. But quite a lot of people from either side don’t want to hear it. It’s the same for the wider world too. And I honestly think it’s a really fucking shit place to be and not how to look at anything. Because if you announce the numbers caught in care homes and the amount caught in hospitals Then people would realise that ordinary transmission is nowhere near as high as they have been told And they then risk more non compliance of restrictions in the country at large I have for ages been wanting the figures publishing for the amount of people who went into hospital covid free then test positive later |
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jan 14, 2021 7:44:29 GMT
So why are all the people who have been posting for months about the overreaction to Covid either stopped posting or are posting increasingly irrelevant crap? To avoid admitting they got it completely wrong? No shame in admitting to being wrong. What is shameful is advocating policies and behaviours that will make a shit situation worse when it's bleeding obvious that that is what would happen. Is saving face really that important? It really is to some on here yes. Rather than just apologise or stop posting at all they just find other angles and nonsense to post thinking they're being clever. Its called arrogance and I'm just glad I don't know these people personally. Got to agree. 1,500+ deaths recorded yesterday and for some it's no doubt still scaremongering, while others were boasting about ignoring the rules and doing what they wanted just a few weeks ago. You do have to wonder about some folk. |
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Post by numpty40 on Jan 14, 2021 8:29:32 GMT
So why are all the people who have been posting for months about the overreaction to Covid either stopped posting or are posting increasingly irrelevant crap? To avoid admitting they got it completely wrong? No shame in admitting to being wrong. What is shameful is advocating policies and behaviours that will make a shit situation worse when it's bleeding obvious that that is what would happen. Is saving face really that important? Perhaps they're all at work and not furloughed or working from home and therefore unable to post as often as some😁 |
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Post by Northy on Jan 14, 2021 8:53:13 GMT
I take it all the left leaning voters and remainers won't be taking that one  |
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Post by Northy on Jan 14, 2021 8:56:10 GMT
Latest Sweden have so far got 80000 people vaccinated and out of these 80000 people 40 have reported side effects, including 17 severe cases. One got an allergic shock. One has got facial paralysis. There have also been 7 death cases. However these are still under examination, so they could have died and probably did die of something else. I was hospitalised for a week to a reaction to an anti malaria drug, unfortunately these things do happen when it doesn't to millions of others for no explained reason. |
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Post by franklin on Jan 14, 2021 9:00:20 GMT
So why are all the people who have been posting for months about the overreaction to Covid either stopped posting or are posting increasingly irrelevant crap? To avoid admitting they got it completely wrong? No shame in admitting to being wrong. What is shameful is advocating policies and behaviours that will make a shit situation worse when it's bleeding obvious that that is what would happen. Is saving face really that important? Maybe because they feel they are pissing in the wind with the lockdown loons. |
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Post by franklin on Jan 14, 2021 9:08:57 GMT
So why are all the people who have been posting for months about the overreaction to Covid either stopped posting or are posting increasingly irrelevant crap? To avoid admitting they got it completely wrong? No shame in admitting to being wrong. What is shameful is advocating policies and behaviours that will make a shit situation worse when it's bleeding obvious that that is what would happen. Is saving face really that important? It really is to some on here yes. Rather than just apologise or stop posting at all they just find other angles and nonsense to post thinking they're being clever. Its called arrogance and I'm just glad I don't know these people personally. The irony 🤣 |
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Jan 14, 2021 9:10:14 GMT
Just got Sky News on now ... "Public Health England have carried out a huge comprehensive study, which suggests that contracting Coronavirus, gives at least as good an immune defence against future infections as a vaccine. Prior illness provided around 85% protection against asymptomatic and symptomatic reinfection." Saw something similar this morning but that immunity from infection lasts 5 months. Hope vaccination is better than that or some people will need revaccinating before they've even had their second dose. |
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Post by Davef on Jan 14, 2021 9:24:26 GMT
Just got Sky News on now ... "Public Health England have carried out a huge comprehensive study, which suggests that contracting Coronavirus, gives at least as good an immune defence against future infections as a vaccine. Prior illness provided around 85% protection against asymptomatic and symptomatic reinfection." Saw something similar this morning but that immunity from infection lasts 5 months. Hope vaccination is better than that or some people will need revaccinating before they've even had their second dose. AT LEAST five months (and some studies say eight months) because that's how long they've been assessed. It's been pointed out that some people who contracted the initial SARS virus still had immunity seventeen years later and some experts think that contracting Covid will give you long term immunity but they cannot be totally sure. |
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Post by chad on Jan 14, 2021 9:24:52 GMT
Just got Sky News on now ... "Public Health England have carried out a huge comprehensive study, which suggests that contracting Coronavirus, gives at least as good an immune defence against future infections as a vaccine. Prior illness provided around 85% protection against asymptomatic and symptomatic reinfection." Saw something similar this morning but that immunity from infection lasts 5 months. Hope vaccination is better than that or some people will need revaccinating before they've even had their second dose. I think this vaccine will become an annual thing Certainly for over 60s |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 14, 2021 9:25:29 GMT
Just got Sky News on now ... "Public Health England have carried out a huge comprehensive study, which suggests that contracting Coronavirus, gives at least as good an immune defence against future infections as a vaccine. Prior illness provided around 85% protection against asymptomatic and symptomatic reinfection." Saw something similar this morning but that immunity from infection lasts 5 months. Hope vaccination is better than that or some people will need revaccinating before they've even had their second dose. Isn't it 5 months because that's about the length they've studied?  I don't think they said that it was 5 months. |
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Post by musik on Jan 14, 2021 9:35:57 GMT
some experts think that contracting Covid will give you long term immunity but they cannot be totally sure. In all stats there will always be some rare cases, some rare experts. However, most experts up here say there is only a short term immunity. Four months is what they mention. If true it means you can get this #@&$@# shit 3 times every year. But worst part: they have no guarantees vaccination is any better than getting the actual disease naturally when it comes to immunity. In fact they're already debating we might have to get an injection every year or more. But I hope the experts you mention here are right though, of course. |
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Post by werrington on Jan 14, 2021 9:44:21 GMT
So why are all the people who have been posting for months about the overreaction to Covid either stopped posting or are posting increasingly irrelevant crap? To avoid admitting they got it completely wrong? No shame in admitting to being wrong. What is shameful is advocating policies and behaviours that will make a shit situation worse when it's bleeding obvious that that is what would happen. Is saving face really that important? It really is to some on here yes. Rather than just apologise or stop posting at all they just find other angles and nonsense to post thinking they're being clever. Its called arrogance and I'm just glad I don't know these people personally. All a bit shallow that Hackett lad I would never be glad I didn’t know anybody just because they have a different viewpoint to myself as it’s all opinions but each to their own I suppose You want lockdown and are worried about hospitals others worry about businesses, jobs, homes, mental health, cancelled urgent appointments and cancer operations cancelled etc etc ....it’s all relevant so why should anybody apologise so get over yourself eh Pissing me off and me annoying me yeah... but never that Up the potters |
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Post by Davef on Jan 14, 2021 9:45:01 GMT
some experts think that contracting Covid will give you long term immunity but they cannot be totally sure. In all stats there will always be some rare cases, some rare experts. However, most experts up here say there is only a short term immunity. Four months is what they mention. If true it means you can get this #@&$@# shit 3 times every year. But worst part: they have no guarantees vaccination is any better than getting the actual disease naturally when it comes to immunity. In fact they're already debating we might have to get an injection every year or more. But I hope the experts you mention here are right though, of course. Shane Crotty is a very respected immunologist. |
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Post by Gods on Jan 14, 2021 9:47:52 GMT
Sadly they bought and recycled this kind of shit from Michael Yeadon in his October Blog post: The coronavirus pandemic is “effectively over” in the United Kingdom and “there is absolutely no need for vaccines."I suppose I'm not sure if I'd shout it from the roof tops if I got scammed by a con man on the internet. Again. I’ve been in the middle of the two factions on this. I think both sides have made good arguments tbh. And I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle. It definitely hasn’t been as bad as the models and all that shit predicted it would be. But it’s definitely been bad. I do struggle to square a lot of what has gone on though when the average of those that are dying from it is at or above the average age of death in the country. And I honestly don’t think there’s that good of an argument when you look at it like that to justify what’s happening. And that’s not to say these people aren’t important. They totally are. And more efforts needed to be done to protect them from the get go. But from the off I would have done things differently from the govt. And that’s how I judge things. What would I do? This is a kind of timeline/recollection of where I’ve been and my contrasting thoughts on it. I remember joking about it in January. The Hull game I have never noticed so many blokes washing their hands. Grim bastards from before. In March I would have shut the country at least a week sooner and I think that would have made a big difference. And I would have done it hard to try and eliminate it. No flights in or out at that point bar for repatriation. But still not great and still too late but I’m being honest. I honestly think they went for herd immunity without a vaccine which is daft. I think they opened up the north too soon hence why it never really went from Manchester in the summer. Schools should not have opened in September as they did. Clearly was always going to be a fuck up with no social distancing in place. The lockdown in November was a farce. Christmas should have been banned from the get go. And I’m not sure this lockdown is needed either despite what’s going on. Since September we needed to ration school essentially, find a way of actually perfecting care homes and get track and trace working. They are the 3 biggest fuck ups imo and all avoidable and all I can say aren’t hindsight. I think the mass testing is bollocks mind. See www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4851 A massive waste of money that is very debatable as to whether it’s actually helping anything. The emergence of the NHS as a big a problem as anything as a vector for this thing is deeply concerning too. The infections that are occurring in hospitals should be national news with people that get paid lots of money being forced to find ways of sorting it. Instead we seem to have a head in the sand mentality that doesn’t want to talk about anything that is diverging from the norm. Which is such a bad and dangerous mentality to have. A third of deaths from care homes too. Why aren’t people talking about that? The NHS and care homes infections are something we should be able to control and we are failing. So far from seeing both sides on this thread and thinking that there’s some great and some utter tripe on both sides the biggest thing that stuck out for me was Paul posting a link to a doctor in NY in about April. He had been pilloried for suggesting ventilators weren’t the best way to treat this and that actually it was more than a long disease. The bloke was passionate, he clearly wasn’t a crank and he cared about those he was treating and those he had lost. But people weren’t listening because it didn’t conform to the popular belief. From what I can gather his beliefs and what he was witnessing is far closer to what is considered the better treatment now and ventilators are the last resort whereas they were the go to, the saviour to start with. So I guess what I’m saying is I just wish more people would open their eyes to both sides of it because actually past the entrenched modernity of the argument where either side isn’t for turning, there is actually good stuff on both sides. And by good stuff, I mean thought provoking, viewpoint altering stuff. But quite a lot of people from either side don’t want to hear it. It’s the same for the wider world too. And I honestly think it’s a really fucking shit place to be and not how to look at anything. That's a very fair post Bayern. Just on people dying with covid above the average age of death because I know it troubles you and it troubles me too. Nigel Lawson made this point in the Sunday Times a couple of weeks ago that something to consider is while the average age of death in the UK with covid is 82, which is higher than the average age of death from all causes, it is also the case that IF you actually get to 82 actuarial tables show you should expect to live for another 9 years. And of course an average age is just that, for every 95 year old dying with covid there is someone in their late 60's. |
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Post by musik on Jan 14, 2021 9:50:07 GMT
Latest Sweden have so far got 80000 people vaccinated and out of these 80000 people 40 have reported side effects, including 17 severe cases. One got an allergic shock. One has got facial paralysis. There have also been 7 death cases. However these are still under examination, so they could have died and probably did die of something else. I was hospitalised for a week to a reaction to an anti malaria drug, unfortunately these things do happen when it doesn't to millions of others for no explained reason. The unexplained reason is because they don't dig into it any deeper. I suffer from extremely low drug metabolism. Atm I'm struggling (day 10 now) from antibiotics side effects. I also had to have a pupil relaxation drug as well and normally it takes 3-22 hours for the pupil to get back to the normal size. It took me almost 90 hours. So someone estimated my drug metabolism to 1/8 of a normal level. This happens with every kind of drug, and the answer spells drug metabolism. My food metabolism on the other hand is normal though or actually quite fast.😁 |
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Jan 14, 2021 9:51:57 GMT
Saw something similar this morning but that immunity from infection lasts 5 months. Hope vaccination is better than that or some people will need revaccinating before they've even had their second dose. AT LEAST five months (and some studies say eight months) because that's how long they've been assessed. It's been pointed out that some people who contracted the initial SARS virus still had immunity seventeen years later and some experts think that contracting Covid will give you long term immunity but they cannot be totally sure. So fairly inconclusive then for a virus that is likely to be endemic, seasonal and return with a different dominant variant every year. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 14, 2021 10:10:26 GMT
Again. I’ve been in the middle of the two factions on this. I think both sides have made good arguments tbh. And I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle. It definitely hasn’t been as bad as the models and all that shit predicted it would be. But it’s definitely been bad. I do struggle to square a lot of what has gone on though when the average of those that are dying from it is at or above the average age of death in the country. And I honestly don’t think there’s that good of an argument when you look at it like that to justify what’s happening. And that’s not to say these people aren’t important. They totally are. And more efforts needed to be done to protect them from the get go. But from the off I would have done things differently from the govt. And that’s how I judge things. What would I do? This is a kind of timeline/recollection of where I’ve been and my contrasting thoughts on it. I remember joking about it in January. The Hull game I have never noticed so many blokes washing their hands. Grim bastards from before. In March I would have shut the country at least a week sooner and I think that would have made a big difference. And I would have done it hard to try and eliminate it. No flights in or out at that point bar for repatriation. But still not great and still too late but I’m being honest. I honestly think they went for herd immunity without a vaccine which is daft. I think they opened up the north too soon hence why it never really went from Manchester in the summer. Schools should not have opened in September as they did. Clearly was always going to be a fuck up with no social distancing in place. The lockdown in November was a farce. Christmas should have been banned from the get go. And I’m not sure this lockdown is needed either despite what’s going on. Since September we needed to ration school essentially, find a way of actually perfecting care homes and get track and trace working. They are the 3 biggest fuck ups imo and all avoidable and all I can say aren’t hindsight. I think the mass testing is bollocks mind. See www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4851 A massive waste of money that is very debatable as to whether it’s actually helping anything. The emergence of the NHS as a big a problem as anything as a vector for this thing is deeply concerning too. The infections that are occurring in hospitals should be national news with people that get paid lots of money being forced to find ways of sorting it. Instead we seem to have a head in the sand mentality that doesn’t want to talk about anything that is diverging from the norm. Which is such a bad and dangerous mentality to have. A third of deaths from care homes too. Why aren’t people talking about that? The NHS and care homes infections are something we should be able to control and we are failing. So far from seeing both sides on this thread and thinking that there’s some great and some utter tripe on both sides the biggest thing that stuck out for me was Paul posting a link to a doctor in NY in about April. He had been pilloried for suggesting ventilators weren’t the best way to treat this and that actually it was more than a long disease. The bloke was passionate, he clearly wasn’t a crank and he cared about those he was treating and those he had lost. But people weren’t listening because it didn’t conform to the popular belief. From what I can gather his beliefs and what he was witnessing is far closer to what is considered the better treatment now and ventilators are the last resort whereas they were the go to, the saviour to start with. So I guess what I’m saying is I just wish more people would open their eyes to both sides of it because actually past the entrenched modernity of the argument where either side isn’t for turning, there is actually good stuff on both sides. And by good stuff, I mean thought provoking, viewpoint altering stuff. But quite a lot of people from either side don’t want to hear it. It’s the same for the wider world too. And I honestly think it’s a really fucking shit place to be and not how to look at anything. That's a very fair post Bayern. Just on people dying with covid above the average age of death because I know it troubles you and it troubles me too. Nigel Lawson made this point in the Sunday Times a couple of weeks ago that something to consider is while the average age of death in the UK with covid is 82, which is higher than the average age of death from all causes, it is also the case that IF you actually get to 82 actuarial tables show you should expect to live for another 9 years. And of course an average age is just that, for every 95 year old dying with covid there is someone in their late 60's. I totally get that but ultimately I don't think we should be in a place where they have been dying in the number they have. I think there's a good case for the government to be sued and charges be bought tbh. I'm not one of these who thinks the underlying causes thing makes it ok and I don't think the age does either. It just makes it more difficult to swallow what has transpired. Because I don't think it's worked as a protection method for those that needed protecting or anything else. If it was to end today my main conclusions/takeaways would be this: 1) Austerity needs to be binned. It made a bad situation so much worse. 2) Procurement for governmental departments needs a massive overhaul. 3) This government couldn't run a bath nevermind the country. 4) Infection control in the NHS needs a massive overhaul. 5) We need a proper pandemic plan running in the background ready for the next one. 6) Care homes, I think they're grim anyway and have had a long held belief that I'd rather die than go in one. This has just strengthened that. I couldn't tell you what the issue is or how you solve it. But there needs to an investigation into them. 7) Corruption - how blatant it's been from the government. We have to look at the loopholees that have allowed it. 8) Basic hygiene of the public - the rules around hand washing came as a shock to way too many people for my liking. 9) I normally get colds pretty regularly, I haven't really had one so far this year since March *touch wood*. Maybe just maybe the hygiene, washing hands etc works. And yes contact has been much less but from August to December I've still got the train at least twice a week and walk through a building has still been in use and that I'd usually expect to get a cold from around September.... 10) I actually think generally we're more resilient than we think. Yes it's staying but it's a big impact and everything now takes so much thinking and people have coped imo remarkably well on the whole. 11) As a species we're dumb but we're also fucking clever. The science behind the vaccines and monitoring of it etc is just mind blowingly clever stuff and it shows what we can do for good. We just need to take those principles and apply it to climate change etc. |
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I don't think they said that it was 5 months. 
