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Post by chad on Dec 19, 2020 19:10:40 GMT
While I’m completely against lockdowns, I’d prefer the certainty of advance knowledge. ie: Put whole country in T3 for 4/6 weeks, open back up with lowest level of restrictions for 2/3 weeks through the new year. Further restrictions for Jan, etc etc This ad hoc shite is the worst of both worlds Absolutely. It’s because this government are completely out of their depth. U turn after U turn after U turn. Just days ago there was no chance of changing Xmas plans Do you suggest they make a decision and stick to it in the face of overwhelming evidence that things have changed ! |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Dec 19, 2020 19:15:33 GMT
That's the point I was making mate, haven't Pfizer now said, that they're not going to be able to provide us with the amount we ordered in the time frame we were hoping for? I didn't know that - but sticking to the point that vaccination was about preparing for next winter all tolled we have 357m vaccines on order from 7 different 'promising' suppliers. Now we have Pfizer, Modena approved in the US and Oxford in all liklihood before the end of the year I would have thought the other 4 all had pretty good chances of being approved. There are also many other vaccines in trials around the world that the UK has not backed. From a couple of months back when we were not sure if or when any vaccine may be available there might be an interesting dynamic shortly whereby the likes of Pfizer (expensive and logistically difficult) are holding us to taking the order because they can't flog it elsewhere.. The government have said they want all the elderly and the people in the at risk groups to be vaccinated by Easter but if we're not going to get enough of the Pfizer vaccine to achieve this, should we be worried that they might turn to the Oxford vaccine to achieve this goal, even though its efficacy is still unproven for these specific groups? |
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Post by partickpotter on Dec 19, 2020 19:20:15 GMT
Emotions will be running high tonight and understandably particularly for any Stokies who are based in London/SE and were looking forward to some Festive plans. By my reckoning this was about 75 hours before todays announcement. I couldn't care less if you voted for him or not (the options were tragic) but we have people calling Starmer a Cunt and clamour for Nige Farage. This is the leader of the country, our Prime Minister behaving like an utter prat and lying through his teeth and then making himself look even more incompetent. The 4 nations approach was rebuffed before PMQ's had even finished. He needs removing from office as it is simply not good enough. Yeah, yeah, yeah. |
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Post by heworksardtho on Dec 19, 2020 19:20:29 GMT
Country would have been the Venezuela of Europe Ah, even in the midst of another expose of this government’s incompetence, those who voted Tory instead of Labour need to convince themselves we would have been worse off under Corbyn. Let me tell you, hundreds more elderly people would still be alive today if Jezza had made it to No 10. But you reap what you sow. The Jewish Community would have been shitting themselves if Jezza had got in |
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Post by meltonjohn on Dec 19, 2020 19:26:43 GMT
Starmer advocated an early lockdown in October and more decisive action re Xmas in the week. He was ridiculed both times. Johnson has proved indecisive, incompetent and has lied through his teeth all year. Still at least we have his oven ready Brexit deal to look forward to...
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Post by andystokey on Dec 19, 2020 19:26:51 GMT
Anyone got a link to regional rather than national testing numbers? I'm sure the spike is the new variant as advertised but I wanted to check something that's bugging me. Is it just a coincidence that mass testing was rolled out in Medway, Rother and Kent on Dec 8th and now we have a disproportionate spike in cases? 🤔 www.kentlive.news/news/kent-news/look-inside-one-medways-three-4776056 |
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Dec 19, 2020 19:27:53 GMT
I didn't know that - but sticking to the point that vaccination was about preparing for next winter all tolled we have 357m vaccines on order from 7 different 'promising' suppliers. Now we have Pfizer, Modena approved in the US and Oxford in all liklihood before the end of the year I would have thought the other 4 all had pretty good chances of being approved. There are also many other vaccines in trials around the world that the UK has not backed. From a couple of months back when we were not sure if or when any vaccine may be available there might be an interesting dynamic shortly whereby the likes of Pfizer (expensive and logistically difficult) are holding us to taking the order because they can't flog it elsewhere.. The government have said they want all the elderly and the people in the at risk groups to be vaccinated by Easter but if we're not going to get enough of the Pfizer vaccine to achieve this, should we be worried that they might turn to the Oxford vaccine to achieve this goal, even though its efficacy is still unproven for these specific groups? To what degree is it unproven? (I genuinely don't know - I don't have the time to study all info in detail) - however a flu vaccine is rarely more than 60% effective and often less - but we run with it. It it gives older people that sort of level of cover then go with it - providing it doesn't stop them having a more effective vaccine at a later date then it's still progress. |
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Post by mutters on Dec 19, 2020 19:28:47 GMT
The irony of all this is that Johnson has been wittering on about how the UK will be a world leader after Brexit, and despite being the first country in the world to administer Covid vaccines, he's buckled and shit himself because European countries have brought in lockdowns which won't make a blind bit of difference. The sooner he's gone the better. And he can take his excuse of a Health Minister with him. Can he also take Whitty, Vallance and all the SAGE members too please Probably Kenrick and Nadhim Zahawi are probably two more to add to the exodus, with a bit of luck Also, in the spirit of financial fair play, similar to rates relief that has been "repaid" by Tesco, etc etc, please can we disclose the details of all the contracts awarded for PPE and other services that the government has procured in 2020. Then public can personally assess what value was achieved and who was paid to achieve this - I would be most interested to see how many were established in their sectors and how many were start ups and also, who their directors and shareholders where and finally their tax residency rg based in UK or overseas directors / shareholders |
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Dec 19, 2020 19:29:01 GMT
Emotions will be running high tonight and understandably particularly for any Stokies who are based in London/SE and were looking forward to some Festive plans. By my reckoning this was about 75 hours before todays announcement. I couldn't care less if you voted for him or not (the options were tragic) but we have people calling Starmer a Cunt and clamour for Nige Farage. This is the leader of the country, our Prime Minister behaving like an utter prat and lying through his teeth and then making himself look even more incompetent. The 4 nations approach was rebuffed before PMQ's had even finished. He needs removing from office as it is simply not good enough. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And unfortunately, that is all that's left isnt it. If ever a 3 word slogan was needed for the hard-core now is the time. |
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Post by Davef on Dec 19, 2020 19:33:52 GMT
Anyone got a link to regional rather than national testing numbers? I'm sure the spike is the new variant as advertised but I wanted to check something that's bugging me. Is it just a coincidence that mass testing was rolled out in Medway, Rother and Kent on Dec 8th and now we have a disproportionate spike in cases? 🤔 www.kentlive.news/news/kent-news/look-inside-one-medways-three-4776056The Government website doesn't even give any details on regions' or local authorities' testing figures. |
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Post by mutters on Dec 19, 2020 19:36:06 GMT
Someone needs to come out and explain higher transmission in a way we can all understand. At the end of the day it's not burrowing through PPE or jumping 10m instead of 2m. So which of the current "hands, face, space" is it circumventing? It might need less of it to catch it maybe but it's still airborne in droplets. I understand the bit about the shorter infection period perhaps. That still means you have to catch it though. That's the point though isn't it? Keep it vague, so whatever way it turns they have kept their options open and can adjust to keep it going in whatever direction they want without making themselves look silly or have to make a u turn in due course |
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Post by meltonjohn on Dec 19, 2020 19:36:30 GMT
Stoke on Trent voted for the clown to be PM. Worst PM in history messes up handling the pandemic and forgot to mention the oven he was using for his Brexit deal was the one from the crem...
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Post by fullmetaljacket on Dec 19, 2020 19:39:38 GMT
I'll ask again just for clarity then.
If I am in london I simply need to travel tonight and I can stay away from home overnight?
I've called my hotel and they seem to think it's not possible..I think it very much is.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Dec 19, 2020 19:41:54 GMT
The government have said they want all the elderly and the people in the at risk groups to be vaccinated by Easter but if we're not going to get enough of the Pfizer vaccine to achieve this, should we be worried that they might turn to the Oxford vaccine to achieve this goal, even though its efficacy is still unproven for these specific groups? To what degree is it unproven? (I genuinely don't know - I don't have the time to study all info in detail) - however a flu vaccine is rarely more than 60% effective and often less - but we run with it. It it gives older people that sort of level of cover then go with it - providing it doesn't stop them having a more effective vaccine at a later date then it's still progress. The other vaccines that have been approved have been shown to have above 90% efficacy across all age ranges but the Oxford vaccine has only demonstrated this level in under 55's, hence why they're about to start trials in the older age groups. |
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Dec 19, 2020 19:44:22 GMT
Someone needs to come out and explain higher transmission in a way we can all understand. At the end of the day it's not burrowing through PPE or jumping 10m instead of 2m. So which of the current "hands, face, space" is it circumventing? It might need less of it to catch it maybe but it's still airborne in droplets. I understand the bit about the shorter infection period perhaps. That still means you have to catch it though. Isn't the general consensus amongst virologists that viruses don't actually want to kill their hosts? We're being told that this variant is more transmissible but not as deadly. So why this latest hysteria? They have been very clear they do not know if it’s any more deadly or if it could find it’s way past the vaccine |
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Post by LL Cool Dave on Dec 19, 2020 19:47:51 GMT
Another predictible U Turn and yet certain people still think he's doing a good job.
Getting a bit tedious now.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Dec 19, 2020 19:49:35 GMT
I'll ask again just for clarity then. If I am in london I simply need to travel tonight and I can stay away from home overnight? I've called my hotel and they seem to think it's not possible..I think it very much is. No you can't, tier 4 restrictions begin at midnight tonight. |
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Post by mtrstudent on Dec 19, 2020 19:53:35 GMT
Flu is getting fucked over by all our precautions. It's shit at spreading compared to covid, so a fair bit of mask wearing and distancing stops it in its tracks. Makes you wonder why we let tens of thousands of people die to it each year if it was so easy to eradicate. Will you and your mates stay home from work when you've got early flu symptoms from now on? Or pop on a surgical mask? I think there's a good chance some people will do this from now on, and if enough of us do it then future flu seasons shouldn't be as bad. Unless it becomes a weird political fetish to go coughing in people's faces or something. Could be a good thing to come out of this shitstain of a year. |
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Dec 19, 2020 19:53:44 GMT
This will be the tipping point for the "on the fence brigade", which actually makes up the vast majority of the population (to my dismay). Once they finally woke up to the fact that blanket lockdown is an absolutely catastrophic idea, it was always going to go one way. And this is that moment. Let the fun and games commence... Riots, violence, poverty, anger, hate, depression to name a few of the outcomes of this bullshit strategy. Can confirm no rioting here quite streets , steely determination to deal with the circumstances and no one in the streets , and of course the deeply righteous protestors in ski masks looked outside and thought not a nice day for police baiting |
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Post by wagsastokie on Dec 19, 2020 19:57:35 GMT
Country would have been the Venezuela of Europe Ah, even in the midst of another expose of this government’s incompetence, those who voted Tory instead of Labour need to convince themselves we would have been worse off under Corbyn. Let me tell you, hundreds more elderly people would still be alive today if Jezza had made it to No 10. But you reap what you sow. Wales is doing so much better |
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Post by hcstokie on Dec 19, 2020 19:58:47 GMT
I’ve said it a number of times throughout the year and a couple of times on this thread, the issue is that they are incapable of making an unpopular decision from the outset. They then kick the can down the road until they abandon their position, make themselves look stupid and piss everyone off.
I don’t envy those in government but they haven’t half made life hard for themselves. They couldn’t look more incompetent if they tried.
Considering Boris is supposedly a keen student of Churchill he doesn’t half demonstrate a Chamberlain style of appeasement whilst COVID continues to blitz the nation.
The man is a buffoon!
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Post by wagsastokie on Dec 19, 2020 20:00:03 GMT
Starmer advocated an early lockdown in October and more decisive action re Xmas in the week. He was ridiculed both times. Johnson has proved indecisive, incompetent and has lied through his teeth all year. Still at least we have his oven ready Brexit deal to look forward to... So how did the early lockdown in labour run wales go |
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Post by andystokey on Dec 19, 2020 20:05:38 GMT
Anyone got a link to regional rather than national testing numbers? I'm sure the spike is the new variant as advertised but I wanted to check something that's bugging me. Is it just a coincidence that mass testing was rolled out in Medway, Rother and Kent on Dec 8th and now we have a disproportionate spike in cases? 🤔 www.kentlive.news/news/kent-news/look-inside-one-medways-three-4776056The Government website doesn't even give any details on regions' or local authorities' testing figures. Interesting reading I'll do a bit more digging but here are some headline numbers as a 7 day cycle count of PCR. This is the last 2 weeks data. Won't be any new numbers until 21st London 1st Dec 211,537 last 7 days 14th Dec 306,077 last 7 days That's a 45% increase in testsSouth East 1st Dec 264,403 last 7 days 14th Dec 318,477 last 7 days That's a 20% increase in tests Similar increases in the East of England As a comparison West Midlands 1st Dec 167,145 last 7 days 14th Dec 163,698 last 7 days That's a decline of about 2% North West 1st Dec 192,779 last 7 days 14th Dec 191,512 last 7 days That's a decline of about 0.5% Interesting huh? Perhaps the 66% increase in cases on the South isn't so difficult to understand after all. Hancock Variant 🤔 |
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Post by Davef on Dec 19, 2020 20:15:26 GMT
Isn't the general consensus amongst virologists that viruses don't actually want to kill their hosts? We're being told that this variant is more transmissible but not as deadly. So why this latest hysteria? They have been very clear they do not know if it’s any more deadly or if it could find it’s way past the vaccine Were their lips moving when they revealed this? |
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Post by oggyoggy on Dec 19, 2020 20:21:34 GMT
Absolutely. It’s because this government are completely out of their depth. U turn after U turn after U turn. Just days ago there was no chance of changing Xmas plans Do you suggest they make a decision and stick to it in the face of overwhelming evidence that things have changed ! Telling us to have a merry little Christmas on Wednesday was probably an error, as things had changed by then too. They U turn on everything. They give false promises and make statements they cannot possibly know to be true. We were to be back to normal by Christmas according to Johnson! Why say it if you have absolutely no clue on whether or not we will be. Just be honest. Don’t pretend to have this under control because they certainly don’t. Don’t pretend you are following the science because they aren’t. The best way for the government to act would be to follow the advice from their scientists. They should have locked down pre-February half term, and again when Sage recommended it in September or whenever it was. Follow the scientific advice and then you can’t be blamed. Instead, we have the biggest recession and one of the worst death rates in the world. The worst of both. And we change strategy every few days which means nothing they say is worth anything as we know they will U turn on it. Plus Cummings of course! |
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Dec 19, 2020 20:29:52 GMT
They have been very clear they do not know if it’s any more deadly or if it could find it’s way past the vaccine Were their lips moving when they revealed this? Honestly what do you expect them to say , they don’t know scientists are working to understand it . Its alright constantly producing alternative data , but when there is no data we just have to wait until there is something . |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Dec 19, 2020 20:42:03 GMT
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Post by Timmypotter on Dec 19, 2020 20:45:17 GMT
Thank god we're locking down again. That ought to sort it out once and for all
Oh.
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Post by stiggerstackle on Dec 19, 2020 20:47:51 GMT
Country would have been the Venezuela of Europe Ah, even in the midst of another expose of this government’s incompetence, those who voted Tory instead of Labour need to convince themselves we would have been worse off under Corbyn. Let me tell you, hundreds more elderly people would still be alive today if Jezza had made it to No 10. But you reap what you sow. Holy bollocks mate, that is some revisionist shit - Corby made himself totally unelectable - this bunch of bastards virtually ran unopposed. |
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Post by Gary Hackett on Dec 19, 2020 20:54:25 GMT
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