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Post by felonious on Mar 19, 2020 20:05:45 GMT
Which old people are confused? I've spoken to two today. The first out on the field, we spoke from 12 foot apart, she and her husband have locked themselves away her only worry being locked up with him for months is divorce after 60 years of marriage. The other one has locked herself away since Monday but was in the car for one last shop because the supermarkets can't deliver this week. I gently rebuked her because I've offered the services of the household here to get whatever she wants. You're a lunatic if you expect every aspect of this unprecedented crisis to be dealt with immediately. The latest initiatives announced by the Chancellor can't go through the commons until tomorrow. There will be more specific details re workers, etc tomorrow. Boris did his level best to reassure employers and employees today. No idea what else he can do when the specifics are being worked out. Keep sniping it's all that you have. Hard defending the indefensible things you believe in mate isn't it..... Really? As hard as quoting from the Momentum handbook ad infinitum? How are the meetings going?
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Mar 19, 2020 20:06:24 GMT
Indeed, absolutely fantastic gesture. It’s a class move. Maybe a few of the worlds billionaires should try following suit instead of asking the government to bank roll their company like that horrible little bearded fuckwit. Yep I remember the money that poured into the Notre Dame rebuild project by the rich and famous. Don’t see a proportionate response here
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Post by sheikhmomo on Mar 19, 2020 20:08:03 GMT
Hard defending the indefensible things you believe in mate isn't it..... Really? As hard as quoting from the Momentum handbook ad infinitum? How are the meetings going? Never been a Momentum member in my life. Shall we delve into your right wing memberships? Anything you want to discuss?
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Mar 19, 2020 20:09:59 GMT
Getting sick of all the empty words and bluster. My missus works on the front line of the healthcare industry, in one of the highest risk industries and is in the category of risk being on the Vaccine register with a chronic, lifetime illness. She's been told today by the GP that Public Health England are not recommending she stays away from work, despite the government advising earlier in the week that by the weekend they will be advising people in her category to socially distance themselves and isolate for 12 weeks. With her job that is physically impossible. She now has a choice. Take the risk and work (and ultimately risk her life) or take time off unpaid and risk getting the sack, of which there will be no comebacks. Where is all of this money that was promised? Where is the legislation to stop private healthcare providers putting their pound coins before the safety of their workers? These daily briefings are utterly devoid of any substance and are a complete waste of time."Do not visit pubs and restaurants" "We will not shut bars and restaurants" That sums up the absolute muddled thinking of these statements, and helps perpetuate the myth that people can safely go about their business without any real safeguarding....... Unbelievable You’d laugh if it was in a Monty Python sketch
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Mar 19, 2020 20:14:06 GMT
Bloody hell, that is not good. How are the emergency services coping? No one is coping mate, Italy is on its knees in desperation. Not enough people following the rules and not enough policing. The military have already started descending, won't be too long until they are patrolling the streets Seriously, with that mortality rate how can people not be following the rules? That’s just crazy
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Post by somersetstokie on Mar 19, 2020 20:14:12 GMT
I just wondered if everybody is simply believing all the information were getting fed on this? In 2017/18 45m people in the States got the a specific strain of flu virus according to Centre of Disease Control and Prevention figures from which 61,000 died. Where was the hysteria then? That's a massive killer. Other people in other countries would have also got that same strain and would have died from it too, but it wasn't considered a danger, nor widely reported. There was no cure for those 61,000. In 2018 Public Health claimed that 291 people died of flu in just one month (January) in the UK but it is likely that if the current deaths linked with this Coronavirus were calculated as they are currently being (i.e not taking into account the role of other existing illnesses) it could have been calculated officially as much higher. I just think it's strange how we just simply believe all the stuff we are told about a specific virus (i.e. its origins, its dangers, how we should respond etc) I'm also not sure why if we are told that 80-90% of people will recover why it is such a big deal as this basically the same with lots of flu virus' especially for people with underlying health conditions of which there are very many millions in this country including myself. In Jan 2018 100 in every 100,000 people were showing flu symptoms in UK according to official figures and 261 (with underlying health conditions) died as a result....in just 1 month. How is that very different from what is happening now? If that would of been based on testing of people who had shown symptoms only (i.e. what is happening now) that figure would have been far higher than what is being currently recorded for coronavirus and therefore should have been of as much concern because it was killing people and if it is killing people by definition there is no cur I'm not looking for an argument here, or trying to be controversial. I just think its good to be questioning. I'm not suggesting we shouldn't be careful about it, we should always be careful of such things. Virus' are always a danger to the vulnerable. I just think we seem to have descended rapidly into a state of fear and panic, and when this happens people seem to stop thinking rationally and lose all sense of context. I feel like we are being whipped up into a frenzy which is not helpful for humanity in fact it brings out the worse in most cases. _____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________- I'm pretty sure that there was an occasion where Donald Trump described the Coronovirus outbreak as a "Hoax" (or was that Climate Change, or both). Unfortunately you do sound rather like an echo of this belief. But you may have a point.
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Post by Billy the kid on Mar 19, 2020 20:21:38 GMT
I just wondered if everybody is simply believing all the information were getting fed on this? In 2017/18 45m people in the States got the a specific strain of flu virus according to Centre of Disease Control and Prevention figures from which 61,000 died. Where was the hysteria then? That's a massive killer. Other people in other countries would have also got that same strain and would have died from it too, but it wasn't considered a danger, nor widely reported. There was no cure for those 61,000. In 2018 Public Health claimed that 291 people died of flu in just one month (January) in the UK but it is likely that if the current deaths linked with this Coronavirus were calculated as they are currently being (i.e not taking into account the role of other existing illnesses) it could have been calculated officially as much higher. I just think it's strange how we just simply believe all the stuff we are told about a specific virus (i.e. its origins, its dangers, how we should respond etc) I'm also not sure why if we are told that 80-90% of people will recover why it is such a big deal as this basically the same with lots of flu virus' especially for people with underlying health conditions of which there are very many millions in this country including myself. In Jan 2018 100 in every 100,000 people were showing flu symptoms in UK according to official figures and 261 (with underlying health conditions) died as a result....in just 1 month. How is that very different from what is happening now? If that would of been based on testing of people who had shown symptoms only (i.e. what is happening now) that figure would have been far higher than what is being currently recorded for coronavirus and therefore should have been of as much concern because it was killing people and if it is killing people by definition there is no cur I'm not looking for an argument here, or trying to be controversial. I just think its good to be questioning. I'm not suggesting we shouldn't be careful about it, we should always be careful of such things. Virus' are always a danger to the vulnerable. I just think we seem to have descended rapidly into a state of fear and panic, and when this happens people seem to stop thinking rationally and lose all sense of context. I feel like we are being whipped up into a frenzy which is not helpful for humanity in fact it brings out the worse in most cases. _____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________- I'm pretty sure that there was an occasion where Donald Trump described the Coronovirus outbreak as a "Hoax" (or was that Climate Change, or both). Unfortunately you do sound rather like an echo of this belief. But you may have a point. I think the concern is that this is across the globe, seasonal illnesses such as influenza in the uk will have very little impact in other countries. This is spreading at speed and is highly contagious. It is also "on top" of seasonal illnesses that a country would reasonably expect. Hence the capacity issues on health care services across the world in such a short space of time. Ofcourse it isn't just the head line "Covid 19 death numbers increase daily" but secondary deaths, from other illnesses due to a lack of beds or staff in hospitals.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Mar 19, 2020 20:25:43 GMT
I've just been into work to collect some things I need to get out to customers and driving into the area the pubs and restaurants I passed were all surprisingly busy.
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Post by scfcno1fan on Mar 19, 2020 20:27:55 GMT
I've just been into work to collect some things I need to get out to customers and driving into the area the pubs and restaurants I passed were all surprisingly busy. Same around here in West Yorkshire. If they are serious about preventing the spread of this virus, with the tactic of avoid public places, then more draconian measures have to be put in place.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2020 20:33:57 GMT
I've just been into work to collect some things I need to get out to customers and driving into the area the pubs and restaurants I passed were all surprisingly busy. Fucking humanity. I despair at the selfishness, ignorance and callousness of these people.
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Post by Gods on Mar 19, 2020 20:36:42 GMT
This pin prick test, 'available now', is very interesting.
It tells you whether you have had the disease in the past, by checking for the presence of antibodies produced by the body to fight off infection.
This can help us work out how widespread the disease has been and whether people are safe to go back to work.
So if you get your corona done early doors effectively you could be rubber stamped to return to the work place and get out and about and on with your life.
I mean that would be a result wouldn't it? (Provided it doesn't kill you off cold as a stoat in the process of course!
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Post by prettything on Mar 19, 2020 20:37:40 GMT
I work in the drinks industry.
Unfortunately, I received the news today that my salary was being cut by half. However, my company have made over 200 redundancies, so I feel fortunate that I still have a job. I will still be able to eat and pay my mortgage, whilst my companies income has been reduced from over 350 million a year to, (at present) almost zero. I understand the decision made.
I would love to get the boards opinion on whether tanking the economy, is worth the sacrifice for what we face? Whilst the death toll, worldwide is unacceptable, I can’t quite shake the feeling that this could have been handled differently, with the current death rate, worldwide, relatively low compared to other diseases.
Again, I may be wrong, only time will tell. But we are currently experiencing our economy take a war time footing, with our national debt achieving unprecedented levels.
Would it have been better to isolate the vulnerable from day one, and let the virus take its course over time? Will there be more deaths due to poverty which may out way the mortality’s from this horrible virus?
I’m not sure where I stand , something doesn’t feel right at all about this situation.
I guess the proof is on the pudding, and judgement will be made about the measures taken, after this is all over.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Mar 19, 2020 20:37:51 GMT
I've just been into work to collect some things I need to get out to customers and driving into the area the pubs and restaurants I passed were all surprisingly busy. Dave I spoke the someone in Halifax today who says Wetherspoons was packed , I know a large scale pub retailer who says the last three days have seen a 80% decline in London but flat sales in York’s . im amazed that a number of public companies have just chosen to remain open putting economics ahead of customer and staff welfare and acting as a catalyst for people that ignore the advice and risk others . i know the hospitality business feels the announcement wasn’t clear and perhaps deliberately so from an insurance perspective but the key messages are clear social gatherings mean more people will die to facilitate that in the name of economics is morally wrong in my view
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Post by davejohnno1 on Mar 19, 2020 20:40:20 GMT
I work in the drinks industry. Unfortunately, I received the news today that my salary was being cut by half. However, my company have made over 200 redundancies, so I feel fortunate that I still have a job. I will still be able to eat and pay my mortgage, whilst my companies income has been reduced from over 350 million a year to, (at present) almost zero. I understand the decision made. I would love to get the boards opinion on whether tanking the economy, is worth the sacrifice for what we face? Whilst the death toll, worldwide is unacceptable, I can’t quite shake the feeling that this could have been handled differently, with the current death rate, worldwide, relatively low compared to other diseases. Again, I may be wrong, only time will tell. But we are currently experiencing our economy take a war time footing, with our national debt achieving unprecedented levels. Would it have been better to isolate the vulnerable from day one, and let the virus take its course over time? Will there be more deaths due to poverty which may out way the mortality’s from this horrible virus? I’m not sure where I stand , something doesn’t feel right at all about this situation. I guess the proof is on the pudding, and judgement will be made about the measures taken, after this is all over. I share your thoughts and concerns. Some would accuse us of not taking this seriously enough and many would consider us selfish.
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Post by Gods on Mar 19, 2020 20:42:10 GMT
I work in the drinks industry. Unfortunately, I received the news today that my salary was being cut by half. However, my company have made over 200 redundancies, so I feel fortunate that I still have a job. I will still be able to eat and pay my mortgage, whilst my companies income has been reduced from over 350 million a year to, (at present) almost zero. I understand the decision made. I would love to get the boards opinion on whether tanking the economy, is worth the sacrifice for what we face? Whilst the death toll, worldwide is unacceptable, I can’t quite shake the feeling that this could have been handled differently, with the current death rate, worldwide, relatively low compared to other diseases. Again, I may be wrong, only time will tell. But we are currently experiencing our economy take a war time footing, with our national debt achieving unprecedented levels. Would it have been better to isolate the vulnerable from day one, and let the virus take its course over time? Will there be more deaths due to poverty which may out way the mortality’s from this horrible virus? I’m not sure where I stand , something doesn’t feel right at all about this situation. I guess the proof is on the pudding, and judgement will be made about the measures taken, after this is all over. Tough one isn't it. My guess is there will be a valid debate on this topic when the dust settles on this lot. I think they said seasonal flu kill 8000 per year, the Chief Medical Officer said we are gunning for 20,000 here so about 2.5 times the regular annual flu. Of course you could argue it would be an awful lot more had we not taken these extraordinary measures.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2020 20:44:16 GMT
The news that CoE only allowing five guests at a wedding - should be interesting. Maybe some couples will have to decide what they want - is it a marriage, or is it a wedding?.
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Post by MilanStokie on Mar 19, 2020 20:48:07 GMT
427 dead in Italy today. More in Italy than China now. 5322 new cases as well by far highest increase in a 24 hour period. It's gathering even more pace than before... I just don't understand how there are all these new cases when Northern Italy has been in complete lock down for nearly two weeks now. I'd be really interested to hear what the theory is for it. Please let the 14 day period be accurate. Wish I could hit the nail on the head mate but for now I can only guess there just aren't enough people follow the rules.
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Post by musik on Mar 19, 2020 20:48:30 GMT
One question only:
Does anybody know how the Immunity approach are supposed to work? Over here in Sweden they say it would be tremendous if 50 (some say 60) % of the population caught the Corona virus, because THEY would be immune against the Corona virus when it comes back the next time - next autumn/winter, or another year.
It doesn't make sense. What about the other 40-50 % then? Will they have like Hell next time? They won't be immune, right? Wouldn't it be better if ALL were immune, if so.
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Post by prettything on Mar 19, 2020 20:50:08 GMT
I've just been into work to collect some things I need to get out to customers and driving into the area the pubs and restaurants I passed were all surprisingly busy. Dave I spoke the someone in Halifax today who says Wetherspoons was packed , I know a large scale pub retailer who says the last three days have seen a 80% decline in London but flat sales in York’s . im amazed that a number of public companies have just chosen to remain open putting economics ahead of customer and staff welfare and acting as a catalyst for people that ignore the advice and risk others . i know the hospitality business feels the announcement wasn’t clear and perhaps deliberately so from an insurance perspective but the key messages are clear social gatherings mean more people will die to facilitate that in the name of economics is morally wrong in my view It was an 80 percent decline at the beginning of the week, as I speak, it’s around 95 percent.
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Post by MilanStokie on Mar 19, 2020 20:51:54 GMT
It sounds terrible but I refuse to believe italy population 60m has more deaths than China population 1 billion+ only explanations are china are massively under reporting deaths or they know how to treat it / have vaccine as its not shall we say a disease of nature, I think its probably the former but...... Maybe the size of the countries? China is huge and as far as I thought, only Hubei was really badly hit. That alone is probably the size of some European countries, at a guess? I could well be talking complete shit by the way. I was surprised to learn that the UK has a larger population than both Italy and Spain so it wouldn’t surprise me if we eventually surpass their death totals, given the size of the UK and how densely populated it is. That sounds morbid as fuck, I know, but if MilanStokie is saying that many Italians aren’t adhering to the rules, you can guarantee it’ll be the same over here, if not worse. People still seem to be not really giving a shit. MilanStokie - is there any particular areas that are worse affected over there? Or is it a fairly even spread? Lombardia region is the worst hit. No space for the dead so the military are taking people from Bergamo to other towns and cities to be cremated. Last I read of the 3400 dead over 2500 are Lombardy. Milan had nearly 700 new cases today of the 5200 new cases.
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Post by richie22 on Mar 19, 2020 20:53:13 GMT
I’m in Ramsgate at the mo, 100yards from where I’m sat there’s two boozers, both suitably packed. The lads I work with that have been in London all week say the same a lot of there bars seem full around the city. People need to start staying in and for many it ain’t happening. leaving Crewe this afternoon I saw a mob of at least 20 kids loitering by Tesco’s, there seems to be a trend that ‘ kids can’t get it’ that they’re bomb proof. . So no precautions are taken !!!!
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Post by MilanStokie on Mar 19, 2020 20:54:46 GMT
No one is coping mate, Italy is on its knees in desperation. Not enough people following the rules and not enough policing. The military have already started descending, won't be too long until they are patrolling the streets Have you had any power outage's while under lockdown ? Not at all mate. This is day 11 for me and being honest it's been fairly comfortable. Harder for my partner, she is very much an outdoors person and she is getting quite anxious. Luckily we have a garden which many Italians don't, so our kids can play enough and get outside plenty. Helps that the weather is nice at around 20 degrees. Lockdown IS possible to manage and I'm not suggesting it won't be difficult for those with their jobs on the line.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 19, 2020 20:54:48 GMT
One question only: Does anybody know how the Immunity approach are supposed to work? Over here in Sweden they say it would be tremendous if 50 (some say 60) % of the population caught the Corona virus, because THEY would be immune against the Corona virus when it comes back the next time - next autumn/winter, or another year. It doesn't make sense. What about the other 40-50 % then? Will they have like Hell next time? They won't be immune, right? Wouldn't it be better if ALL were immune, if so. If 50-60% of the population have immunity to the virus, then it becomes very difficult for the virus to spread. In effect, the younger, fitter part of the community protect those most at risk. Of course people who aren't immune from it will get into difficulties but hopefully the health system at that time, won't be overrun because there are far less cases and the people that need treatment will be able to receive it quickly and efficiently. I think, that's the theory ...
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Post by prettything on Mar 19, 2020 20:54:54 GMT
There is a lot of misinformation about if the pubs were forced to close their insurance would be able to compensate. This would be called “force majeure”.
As much as I think Boris is a blagging ,opportunist, with no detail in his approach or manner, many on -trade outlets simply don’t have this in their policies.
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Post by musik on Mar 19, 2020 20:54:57 GMT
I’m in Ramsgate at the mo, 100yards from where I’m sat there’s two boozers, both suitably packed. The lads I work with that have been in London all week say the same a lot of there bars seem full around the city. People need to start staying in and for many it ain’t happening. leaving Crewe this afternoon I saw a mob of at least 20 kids loitering by Tesco’s, there seems to be a trend that ‘ kids can’t get it’ that they’re bomb proof. . So no precautions are taken !!!! Why are the pubs open?
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Post by sheikhmomo on Mar 19, 2020 20:56:00 GMT
I've just been into work to collect some things I need to get out to customers and driving into the area the pubs and restaurants I passed were all surprisingly busy. Fucking humanity. I despair at the selfishness, ignorance and callousness of these people. Why do you think they're still open?
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Post by prettything on Mar 19, 2020 20:56:27 GMT
I’m in Ramsgate at the mo, 100yards from where I’m sat there’s two boozers, both suitably packed. The lads I work with that have been in London all week say the same a lot of there bars seem full around the city. People need to start staying in and for many it ain’t happening. leaving Crewe this afternoon I saw a mob of at least 20 kids loitering by Tesco’s, there seems to be a trend that ‘ kids can’t get it’ that they’re bomb proof. . So no precautions are taken !!!! Why are the pubs open? To survive . Many still have to pay their leases, their staff at the end of the month, and their suppliers.
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Post by OldStokie on Mar 19, 2020 20:56:28 GMT
One question only: Does anybody know how the Immunity approach are supposed to work? Over here in Sweden they say it would be tremendous if 50 (some say 60) % of the population caught the Corona virus, because THEY would be immune against the Corona virus when it comes back the next time - next autumn/winter, or another year. It doesn't make sense. What about the other 40-50 % then? Will they have like Hell next time? They won't be immune, right? Wouldn't it be better if ALL were immune, if so. This is the 'herd immunity' theory, Musik. A better figure is 80%. The way it would work is that if 80% of the population were immune to it then the virus would die out because there wouldn't be sufficient hosts for it to replicate and survive. OS.
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Post by Billy the kid on Mar 19, 2020 20:57:02 GMT
One question only: Does anybody know how the Immunity approach are supposed to work? Over here in Sweden they say it would be tremendous if 50 (some say 60) % of the population caught the Corona virus, because THEY would be immune against the Corona virus when it comes back the next time - next autumn/winter, or another year. It doesn't make sense. What about the other 40-50 % then? Will they have like Hell next time? They won't be immune, right? Wouldn't it be better if ALL were immune, if so. Of 60 percent are immune then they wont be spreading it so the level of transmission is drastically reduced.
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Post by MilanStokie on Mar 19, 2020 20:58:16 GMT
I just don't understand how there all these new cases when Northern Italy has been in complete lock down for nearly two weeks now. I'd be really interested to hear what the theory is for it. Please let the 14 day period be accurate. I think he's said that people are ignoring requests to stay indoors in Milan similar to a small proportion of the population over here. My daughter left Milan 4 weeks ago her office there closed down two days before this so the measures have been building up for some time before the last two weeks. I think from today's conference we're being led to believe that it will take 12 weeks from now to get on the downward spiral and we're 2 to 4 weeks behind Italy. If we're right Italy still has some way to reach it's peak Unfortunately the peak prediction from a few weeks ago looks likely and possibly will be even later. It's not expected to slow down until around 4th April. That's new cases however, the deaths are likely to rise or stay high now until May. I would not be surprised to see this hit 10,000 before the end of March. That's 10,000 souls in approximately 5 weeks.
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