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Post by Timmypotter on Dec 15, 2020 11:41:49 GMT
Scam. More seriously significant information that folk will ignore. Can't spoil the official tale... But I've just watched an advert on the TV (for the flu jab) stating that the flu kills on average 10000 people every year. Not this year it hasn't. They aren't even trying to hide their lies anymore as there's plenty of people begging to swallow it. If you have a look at the WHO's 'flunet' website you can see the incidence levels of flu for this year. www.who.int/influenza/gisrs_laboratory/flunet/charts/en/Flu has completely disappeared. It's a miracle. I can kind of understand the argument that covid is dominating influenza in the virome, so it isn't getting a chance to infect as many people. But for it to completely disappear? It's not credible is it? Maybe estrangedsonoffaye can shed some light.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Dec 15, 2020 12:08:45 GMT
Zero covid in this country was impossible and any attempt to inflict such misery would have rightly caused a civil war. Track and trace - as you point out - was never going to work here because we dont have the technology for it. I agree - flip flopping is a disaster for business as is total shutdown. Spain, UK, Germany, France, Italy, Brazil and the US had a totally different beast to Australia and NZ so using them as a comparison is like comparing apples with bananas. Targeted lockdowns could have been used and will be used in the future. It will be the big take away from this pandemic along with the biggest global recession in history. Also can we not use China as any kind of respectable comparison? China has become one of the most corrupt, deceitful, disgusting and dishonest states the world has seen in a long time. This is the same nation that denies having concentration camps for Uigher Muslims and denies the fact that its government are actively pursuing a genocide that is every bit as horrifying as scenes in concentration camps all those years ago in Nazi Germany. Video footage proves it exists, the Chinese Communist Party deny it. They also hysterically deny having any more than around 4,000 covid deaths. No one believes that bullshit. Sorry to change subject slightly but any reference to Chinese stats should be shot down immediately. Zero covid in this country wouldn't have worked for many reasons. We are too densely populated and don't have the infrastructure (technical and organisational) to pull it off. Italy were unlucky in that they were the first to get covid and had no warning. Spain, France and the UK had the benefit of hindsight and all screwed up but the situation woul dhave been far worse had they not locked down. Germany took the warnings from Italy seriously, locked down quickly and have come out of it relatively well. Brazil and the US are/were run by right wing nut jobs and have done very badly - and it would have been worse had their local/state governments not ignored the lunatics in charge and implemented local lockdowns. No where has used targeted lockdowns. You have no examples to base your assumptions that this is the way forward. It's wishful thinking. China's appalling human rights record (which I condemn whole heartedly) has nothing to do with the effectiveness of lockdowns - they worked in China and that is nothing to do with the morality of their regime. I'm sure the Chinese figures aren't right but had they done as badly as us they would have had about 1.2 million dead rather than the reported (probably under estimated) 4,600. The Chinese government is secretive, ruthless and effective - but how the hell did they dispose of over 1 million bodies without anyone noticing? Fly tip them on the other side of the Great Wall? You're deflecting from my question. Name a country that successfully implemented a targeted lockdown. Utter nonsense. I'm not deflecting from your question at all. No country has implemented a targeted lockdown, that's my point. Its lazy, blanket lockdowns which will have one of the biggest global inquests ever seen. I repeat for the 5th time. The conclusion of the inquest will be why the fuck didn't we use targeted lockdowns. Just watch. Be patient. If you seriously think China's numbers were anything close to factual then you're on another planet. Numerous British expats have phoned into radio stations saying that Wuhan alone saw between 30,000 to 50,000 deaths. I'm not saying they had over 1.2 million deaths but they had a fuck of a load more than 4000. Add another zero to it and that's probably closer to the real number. Again - even if China was a success (which it wasn't), how can you call a system which arrests and tortures someone from breaking lockdown rules and curfews, a success? It's a complete obliteration of human rights. It's one thing advising people to stay at home. It's another, inflicting physical harm and legal prosecution against someone. You keep clinging onto this absurd notion that lockdowns are good.. Your argument is falling apart by the day and you know it. Just give it time, be patient and you'll see the full scale of damage that this crazed madness has inflicted on the nation. I'll pop up in 3 years and say "told ya so". Look forward to the apology 😊
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Post by Gods on Dec 15, 2020 12:09:17 GMT
Amusing and sickening in equal measure to see a load of wanker South East Tory MP's and councillors who piled into Burnham now blarting about levels of support. To be fair it was absolutely headline news when Andy Burnham was doing his excellent Citizen Smith routine, it isn't now.
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Post by dutchstokie on Dec 15, 2020 12:22:32 GMT
Holland has gone into its strictest lockdown from midnight last night, since the pandemic started....... its gone down hill rapidly over here and proper grim at the moment
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Post by starkiller on Dec 15, 2020 12:44:03 GMT
You dismiss Gates' many connections and influence too easily. It's lumped with microchips and 5g, and dismissed. I'm talking $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ So is Gates. He's giving it away. Which is why he's hated by the libertarian right - his altruism exposes their utterly selfish take on capitalism. It's self-interest and capitalism dressed for the public as altruism. Philanthropy and charity can be effectively used as a cover for a multitude of sins. And often complete inversion. See Jimmy Savile.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Dec 15, 2020 13:24:29 GMT
You're fucking nuts
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Post by andystokey on Dec 15, 2020 13:32:16 GMT
Holland has gone into its strictest lockdown from midnight last night, since the pandemic started....... its gone down hill rapidly over here and proper grim at the moment Fill up your water cannon
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Post by dutchstokie on Dec 15, 2020 13:45:13 GMT
Holland has gone into its strictest lockdown from midnight last night, since the pandemic started....... its gone down hill rapidly over here and proper grim at the moment Fill up your water cannon Too damn right..... should have used it last night on the protesters outside the PMs palace..... fuckin pond life
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Post by wagsastokie on Dec 15, 2020 14:37:58 GMT
No we don’t lock down for flu. But the fact we have locked down for Covid for the best part of eight months and still 500 people a day are dying. How many a day do you think that would be without restrictions 1000 2000 I hate these restrictions. I’ve got two grandkids aged 5 and 7. I’ve seen them 3 times since March but some we can’t just go about our normal daily lives and let the thing run wild Hopefully once the vaccine is widely available things will improve but sadly I think another three or four months of restrictions of done form or another is inevitable How do we know, Brazil didn’t lock down, have a much bigger population and don’t have figures like that. Because the Brazilian government haven’t got a flying clue how many people have died of covid The poor in Brazil don’t count
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Post by sneydgreenstokie1 on Dec 15, 2020 14:44:53 GMT
So is Gates. He's giving it away. Which is why he's hated by the libertarian right - his altruism exposes their utterly selfish take on capitalism. It's self-interest and capitalism dressed for the public as altruism. Philanthropy and charity can be effectively used as a cover for a multitude of sins. And often complete inversion. See Jimmy Savile. I'm sorry but come on!! I have managed to ignore and not reply to any posts of yours till now, but how on earth can you link Saville and Gates????? You are so deluded it is frightening!! I will endeavour to return to my original stance of ignoring your insane and damaging ramblings.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Dec 15, 2020 14:49:06 GMT
Lombardy ...
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Post by wagsastokie on Dec 15, 2020 14:50:18 GMT
Zero covid in this country wouldn't have worked for many reasons. We are too densely populated and don't have the infrastructure (technical and organisational) to pull it off. Italy were unlucky in that they were the first to get covid and had no warning. Spain, France and the UK had the benefit of hindsight and all screwed up but the situation woul dhave been far worse had they not locked down. Germany took the warnings from Italy seriously, locked down quickly and have come out of it relatively well. Brazil and the US are/were run by right wing nut jobs and have done very badly - and it would have been worse had their local/state governments not ignored the lunatics in charge and implemented local lockdowns. No where has used targeted lockdowns. You have no examples to base your assumptions that this is the way forward. It's wishful thinking. China's appalling human rights record (which I condemn whole heartedly) has nothing to do with the effectiveness of lockdowns - they worked in China and that is nothing to do with the morality of their regime. I'm sure the Chinese figures aren't right but had they done as badly as us they would have had about 1.2 million dead rather than the reported (probably under estimated) 4,600. The Chinese government is secretive, ruthless and effective - but how the hell did they dispose of over 1 million bodies without anyone noticing? Fly tip them on the other side of the Great Wall? You're deflecting from my question. Name a country that successfully implemented a targeted lockdown. Utter nonsense. I'm not deflecting from your question at all. No country has implemented a targeted lockdown, that's my point. Its lazy, blanket lockdowns which will have one of the biggest global inquests ever seen. I repeat for the 5th time. The conclusion of the inquest will be why the fuck didn't we use targeted lockdowns. Just watch. Be patient. If you seriously think China's numbers were anything close to factual then you're on another planet. Numerous British expats have phoned into radio stations saying that Wuhan alone saw between 30,000 to 50,000 deaths. I'm not saying they had over 1.2 million deaths but they had a fuck of a load more than 4000. Add another zero to it and that's probably closer to the real number. Again - even if China was a success (which it wasn't), how can you call a system which arrests and tortures someone from breaking lockdown rules and curfews, a success? It's a complete obliteration of human rights. It's one thing advising people to stay at home. It's another, inflicting physical harm and legal prosecution against someone. You keep clinging onto this absurd notion that lockdowns are good.. Your argument is falling apart by the day and you know it. Just give it time, be patient and you'll see the full scale of damage that this crazed madness has inflicted on the nation. I'll pop up in 3 years and say "told ya so". Look forward to the apology 😊 Exactly without a doubt the government has made fuck ups and I maybe one of the few that actually believe they did them with good intentions however misguided it turned out To compare this country with China is nothing short of a joke I would estimate the death toll due to covid must of hit at least six figures If you’re prepared to incarcerate torture and use for forced Labour you’re not likely to be to careful about there over all health Some people extolling the virtues of China on here would be the first to whinge if they tested positive and they sent the local plod round to nail a couple of planks across the doors and paint a big red P
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Post by starkiller on Dec 15, 2020 15:24:47 GMT
It's self-interest and capitalism dressed for the public as altruism. Philanthropy and charity can be effectively used as a cover for a multitude of sins. And often complete inversion. See Jimmy Savile. I'm sorry but come on!! I have managed to ignore and not reply to any posts of yours till now, but how on earth can you link Saville and Gates????? You are so deluded it is frightening!! I will endeavour to return to my original stance of ignoring your insane and damaging ramblings. I wasn't comparing. I am using an example of nefarious purposes hiding behind charity.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Dec 15, 2020 15:29:04 GMT
Amusing and sickening in equal measure to see a load of wanker South East Tory MP's and councillors who piled into Burnham now blarting about levels of support. To be fair it was absolutely headline news when Andy Burnham was doing his excellent Citizen Smith routine, it isn't now. The narrative is as different as night and day. Back then it was bolshie Mayor takes on Government for extra cash, now it's suddenly 'won't somebody think about hard up businesses and workers'
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Post by wakefieldstokie on Dec 15, 2020 15:48:19 GMT
To be fair it was absolutely headline news when Andy Burnham was doing his excellent Citizen Smith routine, it isn't now. The narrative is as different as night and day. Back then it was bolshie Mayor takes on Government for extra cash, now it's suddenly 'won't somebody think about hard up businesses and workers' Spot on.
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Dec 15, 2020 15:49:54 GMT
How do we know, Brazil didn’t lock down, have a much bigger population and don’t have figures like that. Because the Brazilian government haven’t got a flying clue how many people have died of covid The poor in Brazil don’t count That’s rather convenient
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Dec 15, 2020 16:07:34 GMT
Zero covid in this country wouldn't have worked for many reasons. We are too densely populated and don't have the infrastructure (technical and organisational) to pull it off. Italy were unlucky in that they were the first to get covid and had no warning. Spain, France and the UK had the benefit of hindsight and all screwed up but the situation woul dhave been far worse had they not locked down. Germany took the warnings from Italy seriously, locked down quickly and have come out of it relatively well. Brazil and the US are/were run by right wing nut jobs and have done very badly - and it would have been worse had their local/state governments not ignored the lunatics in charge and implemented local lockdowns. No where has used targeted lockdowns. You have no examples to base your assumptions that this is the way forward. It's wishful thinking. China's appalling human rights record (which I condemn whole heartedly) has nothing to do with the effectiveness of lockdowns - they worked in China and that is nothing to do with the morality of their regime. I'm sure the Chinese figures aren't right but had they done as badly as us they would have had about 1.2 million dead rather than the reported (probably under estimated) 4,600. The Chinese government is secretive, ruthless and effective - but how the hell did they dispose of over 1 million bodies without anyone noticing? Fly tip them on the other side of the Great Wall? You're deflecting from my question. Name a country that successfully implemented a targeted lockdown. Utter nonsense. I'm not deflecting from your question at all. No country has implemented a targeted lockdown, that's my point. Its lazy, blanket lockdowns which will have one of the biggest global inquests ever seen. I repeat for the 5th time. The conclusion of the inquest will be why the fuck didn't we use targeted lockdowns. Just watch. Be patient. If you seriously think China's numbers were anything close to factual then you're on another planet. Numerous British expats have phoned into radio stations saying that Wuhan alone saw between 30,000 to 50,000 deaths. I'm not saying they had over 1.2 million deaths but they had a fuck of a load more than 4000. Add another zero to it and that's probably closer to the real number. Again - even if China was a success (which it wasn't), how can you call a system which arrests and tortures someone from breaking lockdown rules and curfews, a success? It's a complete obliteration of human rights. It's one thing advising people to stay at home. It's another, inflicting physical harm and legal prosecution against someone. You keep clinging onto this absurd notion that lockdowns are good.. Your argument is falling apart by the day and you know it. Just give it time, be patient and you'll see the full scale of damage that this crazed madness has inflicted on the nation. I'll pop up in 3 years and say "told ya so". Look forward to the apology 😊 And I repeat for the nth time the reason no country on the entire planet implemented a targeted lock down was because every government and public health service on the planet knew the concept of a targeted lock down is just wishful thinking and no-one in their right mind did it - it would not have worked. I'll be patient - I just don't think anyone actually in a position of enacting public health policy will suddenly go oh shit we should have gone for a targeted lock down. Especially as even by your own admission there is no evidence that it would actually work. Even if the number of deaths in China was 40,000 that's still way short of what it would have been if they had been as successful as us in implementing public health policy. We've had 60,000 deaths out of a population of about 60,000,000 people. China has a population of 1,300,000,000 - the equivalent number of deaths would have been 1,300,000. Not even China could quietly dispose of that many dead bodies. I am not saying lock downs are "good" - it's you who try to reduce everything into such simple terms as "good" and "bad". I am saying lock downs are effective at reducing infections and deaths - and there is overwhelming evidence from around the world that this is true. Lock downs also have a devastating effect on the economy - I don't know anyone who says they don't. Lock downs also make life a bit shit. Lock downs are a lesser of 2 evils - and virtually every government around the world (regardless of their political persuasion) have put saving lives before the economy. The effectiveness of lock downs in controlling a pandemic is a completely separate matter to the human rights records of the governments who implemented them. Just because China has a vile repressive regime doesn't mean that they haven't saved at least 1 millions lives via there lock down strategy or that lock downs don't work because they did it in China. If I'm wrong I'll apologise. But don't hold your breath because I won't need to.
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Post by Timmypotter on Dec 15, 2020 16:09:37 GMT
I've not seen a similar map for London, but there's some evidence that a similar thing is happening there
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Dec 15, 2020 16:25:43 GMT
Utter nonsense. I'm not deflecting from your question at all. No country has implemented a targeted lockdown, that's my point. Its lazy, blanket lockdowns which will have one of the biggest global inquests ever seen. I repeat for the 5th time. The conclusion of the inquest will be why the fuck didn't we use targeted lockdowns. Just watch. Be patient. If you seriously think China's numbers were anything close to factual then you're on another planet. Numerous British expats have phoned into radio stations saying that Wuhan alone saw between 30,000 to 50,000 deaths. I'm not saying they had over 1.2 million deaths but they had a fuck of a load more than 4000. Add another zero to it and that's probably closer to the real number. Again - even if China was a success (which it wasn't), how can you call a system which arrests and tortures someone from breaking lockdown rules and curfews, a success? It's a complete obliteration of human rights. It's one thing advising people to stay at home. It's another, inflicting physical harm and legal prosecution against someone. You keep clinging onto this absurd notion that lockdowns are good.. Your argument is falling apart by the day and you know it. Just give it time, be patient and you'll see the full scale of damage that this crazed madness has inflicted on the nation. I'll pop up in 3 years and say "told ya so". Look forward to the apology 😊 Exactly without a doubt the government has made fuck ups and I maybe one of the few that actually believe they did them with good intentions however misguided it turned out To compare this country with China is nothing short of a joke I would estimate the death toll due to covid must of hit at least six figures If you’re prepared to incarcerate torture and use for forced Labour you’re not likely to be to careful about there over all health Some people extolling the virtues of China on here would be the first to whinge if they tested positive and they sent the local plod round to nail a couple of planks across the doors and paint a big red P You have either misread or are misrepresenting what I said. At no point have I compared the UK to China in terms of the human rights records or the way they implemented lock downs - and I've certainly not said we need a China like government over here. What I have said is that both the UK and China have used lock downs as part of their public health strategy to address the pandemic. Regardless of what anyone thinks about their political regime the fact is China's public health policy has saved millions of lives and is an example of how lock downs can control pandemics - that is just a statement of fact. Their politics is a completely separate matter. I hate the Tories with a vengeance and I believe this lot are the most corrupt and incompetent government in my lifetime. However despite being a self confessed libertarian Boris Johnson has set aside his political inclinations and implemented lock downs and other restrictions in order to save lives. In so doing he's put the economy and his personal popularity on the line and fair play to him for doing that. Like you said I think mistakes have been made but I believe that's cock up rather than malintent. Mind you I still think he's an incompetent dithering buffoon and the sooner we have a progressive centre left government the better.
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Dec 15, 2020 16:28:34 GMT
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Post by werrington on Dec 15, 2020 16:29:56 GMT
To be fair it was absolutely headline news when Andy Burnham was doing his excellent Citizen Smith routine, it isn't now. The narrative is as different as night and day. Back then it was bolshie Mayor takes on Government for extra cash, now it's suddenly 'won't somebody think about hard up businesses and workers' Brilliant mate
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Post by Paul Spencer on Dec 15, 2020 16:53:54 GMT
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Post by Paul Spencer on Dec 15, 2020 17:50:00 GMT
Fair play ...
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Post by Gary Hackett on Dec 15, 2020 18:05:09 GMT
Not surprised, too many human rights issues.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Dec 15, 2020 20:02:54 GMT
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Post by Davef on Dec 15, 2020 20:13:18 GMT
These people are sick.
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Dec 15, 2020 20:15:28 GMT
That’s actually outrageous!!
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Post by chigstoke on Dec 15, 2020 20:19:19 GMT
Whoever the fuck allowed that video to go online should be fucking ashamed of themselves.
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Post by franklin on Dec 15, 2020 20:19:46 GMT
Its beyond sick they are just disgusting.
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Post by andystokey on Dec 15, 2020 20:43:10 GMT
So actually the Government are complicit with allowing us to "kill our families" is that what he means? Or are we the public to be blamed now for going about our lawful business?
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