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Post by Paul Spencer on Dec 14, 2020 23:17:32 GMT
I’ve been alive for 27 years and as far back as I can remember they’ve always been at crisis point every winter without fail. The figures have never been rammed down your throat before though, and when there have been front page headlines of emergency wards close to capacity and patients waiting on trolleys in hospital corridors, Government ministers haven't given the slightest shit. Indeed Dave, from the Mail 12 months ago ... And before anyone says but that's only 800 extra deaths, look at the total deaths, where are those deaths now?
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Post by Gary Hackett on Dec 14, 2020 23:24:06 GMT
When people shift their arguments because they have been proved wrong it's time for bed.
Goodnight
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Post by andystokey on Dec 14, 2020 23:24:08 GMT
Forget the masks, just taking the lights off the Christmas tree now to go to the shops. Attachment Deleted
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Post by Boothen on Dec 14, 2020 23:38:19 GMT
Good news for those of us who build our own PCs. So not only do more LEDs = more FPS, but now they protect us from this virus too.
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Post by chigstoke on Dec 15, 2020 0:11:00 GMT
Good news for those of us who build our own PCs. So not only do more LEDs = more FPS, but now they protect us from this virus too. Combine that with my sick ass RGB cpu cooler and some go faster stripes and I’m practically invulnerable.
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Post by henry on Dec 15, 2020 7:32:04 GMT
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Post by essexstokey on Dec 15, 2020 7:48:44 GMT
Total shambles of a government yet again in London the biggest rise in covid cases is in 10 to 19 age range so a London borough mayor in a hotspot area Wright's to pupils saying remote learning for last 4 days of term the government threatens legal action for shutting the schools 4 days earlier its ridiculous and pathetic We are now in tier three here so closing of pubs etc to stop growth of infected yet schools the hotbed of infectious diseases are still open it does not make sense
Perhaps its borris not wanting to have to baby sit all his children 😁😁
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Post by zerps on Dec 15, 2020 8:01:25 GMT
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Post by lancashirelad on Dec 15, 2020 8:42:42 GMT
Hospitality and the theatre world in the south east rightly concerned about a Tier upgrade what it might do in that area.
As the other half of the country has hardly had any hospitality and theatre including my local one have not opened since March, they had daytime activities and music studios. It is hard to listen to the bar owners and lovies saying people will not be able to enjoy going for a drink, meal and show/party for Christmas.
Living in a Tier 3 area which locally has less than the country infection rate we knew weeks ago Christmas activities were cancelled and locals now buying a take away sandwich and coffee and when its not raining meeting a friend to sit on separated benches in a local park that's Christmas 2020 parties. Credit local cafes and business all doing their best to stay afloat and locals supporting them if they can afford it.
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Post by franklin on Dec 15, 2020 8:47:58 GMT
Well we're closing in on 900k people losing their jobs this year nearly 500k in the hospitality sector alone.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Dec 15, 2020 9:00:05 GMT
Lockdowns do work, without them the 500 deaths we are currently seeing would turn into thousands. We saw what happens when you are late into lockdown in April when we hit 1000 a day before lockdown stopped it spiraling out of control. Shielding the vulnerable doesn't work, official figures state that only a small percentage of old / vulnerable people do not live with people of a younger age who go out to work / school etc. It's impossible to keep them seperate with all the multi generational families. They don't work at all. Why do you think we are now facing a third lockdown? By default they slow the rate of infection because no one is allowed out but they don't eradicate anything! You're only ever a few weeks away from another peak of infections. That's not some kind of genius strategy, it just means people are banned from living their life, touching others and leaving their house to temporarily shove this virus under the carpet while obliterating an entire nation in the process 😂 For a lockdown to "work" surely you have to factor in more than just slowing the infection rate? We can't just think in this small bubble of what the immediate impact is without considering the wider impact. What about the biggest economical crash in history facing us? What about suicide rates going through the roof (figures aren't being released at the moment for a reason) with a mental health pandemic? What about education and children's livelihoods being totally fucked? What about homelessness set to rocket? What about wider deaths due to untreated or delayed illness? What about the inevitable crime and violence that comes out of any economical hardship? What about people who have lost everything? Any death is tragic but you can't implement blanket lockdowns for something that affects a tiny tiny proportion of the population. It's utter madness. The biggest conclusion in years to come in the inevitable inquest will be that the untargeted nature of these lockdowns was utterly scandalous. Your comment around elderly living with kids is just outright wrong. Paul I think it was posted the other day that over 60% of over 65s do NOT live with younger people. Everything about these lockdowns has been fucking lazy and based on some of the most flimsy evidence you'll ever see in your life. Summed up by the comical scotch egg in a pub saga and the fact that hospitality gets shut down despite being responsible for 10x less infections than schools and universities.. Which stay open. You can't justify this dumb ass strategy. These lockdowns will go down in history as the most hapless, lazy, pathetic and destructive overreaction to a crisis in history. You'll deny this which is fine and that's your opinion. But totally happy to bump this in a few years 😊 The lockdowns adopted in the UK are designed to slow down the infection rate so they do work at what they were intended to do. They were never designed to eradicate the virus. Lockdowns designed to eradicate the virus (like those adopted in New Zealand and Australia) are done as part of a zero covid strategy and when they are done with this intention in mind have also proved to work - at least at a local level. The UK has never adopted a zero covid strategy. The strategy has been to control infections until a vaccination programme could be rolled out - which is what is now happening. Letting the virus rip now would kill thousands of people at a time when an effective vaccine is being rolled out and vaccine induced herd immunity is on the horizon.
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Post by starkiller on Dec 15, 2020 9:11:36 GMT
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Dec 15, 2020 9:13:35 GMT
They don't work at all. Why do you think we are now facing a third lockdown? By default they slow the rate of infection because no one is allowed out but they don't eradicate anything! You're only ever a few weeks away from another peak of infections. That's not some kind of genius strategy, it just means people are banned from living their life, touching others and leaving their house to temporarily shove this virus under the carpet while obliterating an entire nation in the process 😂 For a lockdown to "work" surely you have to factor in more than just slowing the infection rate? We can't just think in this small bubble of what the immediate impact is without considering the wider impact. What about the biggest economical crash in history facing us? What about suicide rates going through the roof (figures aren't being released at the moment for a reason) with a mental health pandemic? What about education and children's livelihoods being totally fucked? What about homelessness set to rocket? What about wider deaths due to untreated or delayed illness? What about the inevitable crime and violence that comes out of any economical hardship? What about people who have lost everything? Any death is tragic but you can't implement blanket lockdowns for something that affects a tiny tiny proportion of the population. It's utter madness. The biggest conclusion in years to come in the inevitable inquest will be that the untargeted nature of these lockdowns was utterly scandalous. Your comment around elderly living with kids is just outright wrong. Paul I think it was posted the other day that over 60% of over 65s do NOT live with younger people. Everything about these lockdowns has been fucking lazy and based on some of the most flimsy evidence you'll ever see in your life. Summed up by the comical scotch egg in a pub saga and the fact that hospitality gets shut down despite being responsible for 10x less infections than schools and universities.. Which stay open. You can't justify this dumb ass strategy. These lockdowns will go down in history as the most hapless, lazy, pathetic and destructive overreaction to a crisis in history. You'll deny this which is fine and that's your opinion. But totally happy to bump this in a few years 😊 The lockdowns adopted in the UK are designed to slow down the infection rate so they do work at what they were intended to do. They were never designed to eradicate the virus. Lockdowns designed to eradicate the virus (like those adopted in New Zealand and Australia) are done as part of a zero covid strategy and when they are done with this intention in mind have also proved to work - at least at a local level. The UK has never adopted a zero covid strategy. The strategy has been to control infections until a vaccination programme could be rolled out - which is what is now happening. Letting the virus rip now would kill thousands of people at a time when an effective vaccine is being rolled out and vaccine induced herd immunity is on the horizon. But it hasn't been a success has it? It's been a total disaster on so many levels. We also haven't fully seen the economical affects of lockdown yet, we are barely at the tip of the iceberg. This is a long game and we didn't play the long game. We just took a rash, short term, lazy blanket approach as did many others. It's becoming more obvious by the day that blanket lockdowns were a bad idea. I've said it all along and keep saying it - The conclusion in years to come will be the failure to use targeted lockdowns, shelter the vulnerable while keeping life moving.
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Post by Davef on Dec 15, 2020 9:15:14 GMT
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Dec 15, 2020 9:46:05 GMT
The lockdowns adopted in the UK are designed to slow down the infection rate so they do work at what they were intended to do. They were never designed to eradicate the virus. Lockdowns designed to eradicate the virus (like those adopted in New Zealand and Australia) are done as part of a zero covid strategy and when they are done with this intention in mind have also proved to work - at least at a local level. The UK has never adopted a zero covid strategy. The strategy has been to control infections until a vaccination programme could be rolled out - which is what is now happening. Letting the virus rip now would kill thousands of people at a time when an effective vaccine is being rolled out and vaccine induced herd immunity is on the horizon. But it hasn't been a success has it? It's been a total disaster on so many levels. We also haven't fully seen the economical affects of lockdown yet, we are barely at the tip of the iceberg. This is a long game and we didn't play the long game. We just took a rash, short term, lazy blanket approach as did many others. It's becoming more obvious by the day that blanket lockdowns were a bad idea. I've said it all along and keep saying it - The conclusion in years to come will be the failure to use targeted lockdowns, shelter the vulnerable while keeping life moving. Name one country that has successfully implemented a targeted lockdown. It's sounds great in theory but impossible to implement in practice. The most successful countries (like South Korea and New Zealand) went for zero covid strategies - short sharp lockdowns backed up by effective track and trace. It's far easier to implement zero covid in a small country like New Zealand and South Korea had already got it's act together because of its experience with SARS. Zero covid was never really an option in the UK - we were simply unprepared and our track and trace has been a joke. However to claim lockdowns don't work is nonsense - if they didn't the number of deaths in China alone would have dwarfed the global death count to date. The fact of the matter with an effective vaccine now being rolled out the government isn't going to change it's approach any time soon - in fact flip flopping policy is probably the worst thing it could do now that the end is in sight.
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Post by oggyoggy on Dec 15, 2020 9:48:03 GMT
Trump is saying it's 'totally under control' Over 300,000 dead in the US and it seems to be getting worse
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Post by zerps on Dec 15, 2020 9:59:04 GMT
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Post by essexstokey on Dec 15, 2020 10:25:22 GMT
By the way if you didn't watch panorama last night on the oxford vacin with interviews with the drs Involved watch it on iplayer you will realise what heroes these people are and it also explains how the vaccine works a great watch
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Post by sheikhmomo on Dec 15, 2020 10:33:13 GMT
Amusing and sickening in equal measure to see a load of wanker South East Tory MP's and councillors who piled into Burnham now blarting about levels of support.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Dec 15, 2020 10:44:45 GMT
But it hasn't been a success has it? It's been a total disaster on so many levels. We also haven't fully seen the economical affects of lockdown yet, we are barely at the tip of the iceberg. This is a long game and we didn't play the long game. We just took a rash, short term, lazy blanket approach as did many others. It's becoming more obvious by the day that blanket lockdowns were a bad idea. I've said it all along and keep saying it - The conclusion in years to come will be the failure to use targeted lockdowns, shelter the vulnerable while keeping life moving. Name one country that has successfully implemented a targeted lockdown. It's sounds great in theory but impossible to implement in practice. The most successful countries (like South Korea and New Zealand) went for zero covid strategies - short sharp lockdowns backed up by effective track and trace. It's far easier to implement zero covid in a small country like New Zealand and South Korea had already got it's act together because of its experience with SARS. Zero covid was never really an option in the UK - we were simply unprepared and our track and trace has been a joke. However to claim lockdowns don't work is nonsense - if they didn't the number of deaths in China alone would have dwarfed the global death count to date. The fact of the matter with an effective vaccine now being rolled out the government isn't going to change it's approach any time soon - in fact flip flopping policy is probably the worst thing it could do now that the end is in sight. Zero covid in this country was impossible and any attempt to inflict such misery would have rightly caused a civil war. Track and trace - as you point out - was never going to work here because we dont have the technology for it. I agree - flip flopping is a disaster for business as is total shutdown. Spain, UK, Germany, France, Italy, Brazil and the US had a totally different beast to Australia and NZ so using them as a comparison is like comparing apples with bananas. Targeted lockdowns could have been used and will be used in the future. It will be the big take away from this pandemic along with the biggest global recession in history. Also can we not use China as any kind of respectable comparison? China has become one of the most corrupt, deceitful, disgusting and dishonest states the world has seen in a long time. This is the same nation that denies having concentration camps for Uigher Muslims and denies the fact that its government are actively pursuing a genocide that is every bit as horrifying as scenes in concentration camps all those years ago in Nazi Germany. Video footage proves it exists, the Chinese Communist Party deny it. They also hysterically deny having any more than around 4,000 covid deaths. No one believes that bullshit. Sorry to change subject slightly but any reference to Chinese stats should be shot down immediately.
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Dec 15, 2020 10:47:01 GMT
It’s not as simple/binary as that though. If you were to look at it like that why wouldn’t we lock down every year for flu, are the 1000’s that die from flu not important. Context is also important as it appears that many of these people might not have died because of Covid. No we don’t lock down for flu. But the fact we have locked down for Covid for the best part of eight months and still 500 people a day are dying. How many a day do you think that would be without restrictions 1000 2000 I hate these restrictions. I’ve got two grandkids aged 5 and 7. I’ve seen them 3 times since March but some we can’t just go about our normal daily lives and let the thing run wild Hopefully once the vaccine is widely available things will improve but sadly I think another three or four months of restrictions of done form or another is inevitable How do we know, Brazil didn’t lock down, have a much bigger population and don’t have figures like that.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Dec 15, 2020 10:54:35 GMT
The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation isn't a front for SPECTRE.
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Post by starkiller on Dec 15, 2020 11:00:15 GMT
Name one country that has successfully implemented a targeted lockdown. It's sounds great in theory but impossible to implement in practice. The most successful countries (like South Korea and New Zealand) went for zero covid strategies - short sharp lockdowns backed up by effective track and trace. It's far easier to implement zero covid in a small country like New Zealand and South Korea had already got it's act together because of its experience with SARS. Zero covid was never really an option in the UK - we were simply unprepared and our track and trace has been a joke. However to claim lockdowns don't work is nonsense - if they didn't the number of deaths in China alone would have dwarfed the global death count to date. The fact of the matter with an effective vaccine now being rolled out the government isn't going to change it's approach any time soon - in fact flip flopping policy is probably the worst thing it could do now that the end is in sight. Zero covid in this country was impossible and any attempt to inflict such misery would have rightly caused a civil war. Track and trace - as you point out - was never going to work here because we dont have the technology for it. I agree - flip flopping is a disaster for business as is total shutdown. Spain, UK, Germany, France, Italy, Brazil and the US had a totally different beast to Australia and NZ so using them as a comparison is like comparing apples with bananas. Targeted lockdowns could have been used and will be used in the future. It will be the big take away from this pandemic along with the biggest global recession in history. Also can we not use China as any kind of respectable comparison? China has become one of the most corrupt, deceitful, disgusting and dishonest states the world has seen in a long time. This is the same nation that denies having concentration camps for Uigher Muslims and denies the fact that its government are actively pursuing a genocide that is every bit as horrifying as scenes in concentration camps all those years ago in Nazi Germany. Video footage proves it exists, the Chinese Communist Party deny it. They also hysterically deny having any more than around 4,000 covid deaths. No one believes that bullshit. Sorry to change subject slightly but any reference to Chinese stats should be shot down immediately. It's been a bullshit pandemic from the start. Theatre to push an already planned, but never used before, lockdown agenda.
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Post by mrcoke on Dec 15, 2020 11:01:48 GMT
Name one country that has successfully implemented a targeted lockdown. It's sounds great in theory but impossible to implement in practice. The most successful countries (like South Korea and New Zealand) went for zero covid strategies - short sharp lockdowns backed up by effective track and trace. It's far easier to implement zero covid in a small country like New Zealand and South Korea had already got it's act together because of its experience with SARS. Zero covid was never really an option in the UK - we were simply unprepared and our track and trace has been a joke. However to claim lockdowns don't work is nonsense - if they didn't the number of deaths in China alone would have dwarfed the global death count to date. The fact of the matter with an effective vaccine now being rolled out the government isn't going to change it's approach any time soon - in fact flip flopping policy is probably the worst thing it could do now that the end is in sight. Zero covid in this country was impossible and any attempt to inflict such misery would have rightly caused a civil war. Track and trace - as you point out - was never going to work here because we dont have the technology for it. I agree - flip flopping is a disaster for business as is total shutdown. Spain, UK, Germany, France, Italy, Brazil and the US had a totally different beast to Australia and NZ so using them as a comparison is like comparing apples with bananas. Targeted lockdowns could have been used and will be used in the future. It will be the big take away from this pandemic along with the biggest global recession in history. Also can we not use China as any kind of respectable comparison? China has become one of the most corrupt, deceitful, disgusting and dishonest states the world has seen in a long time. This is the same nation that denies having concentration camps for Uigher Muslims and denies the fact that its government are actively pursuing a genocide that is every bit as horrifying as scenes in concentration camps all those years ago in Nazi Germany. Video footage proves it exists, the Chinese Communist Party deny it. They also hysterically deny having any more than around 4,000 covid deaths. No one believes that bullshit. Sorry to change subject slightly but any reference to Chinese stats should be shot down immediately. I agree that lock down at the start of this pandemic was impossible. More British fly abroad than any other nation in the world. www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/british-travellers-iata-world-air-transport-statistics-a9029366.htmlOnly Americans and Chinese fly more than the British, but in their case a large proportion of flying is internal flights. We also have a huge amount of commuting in the UK, not just in and out of London but all over the country. A huge number of people work away from home during the week. A number of public servant individuals have been caught out breaking lock down rules, and rightly pilloried, but my guess is 100,000s have done the same.
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Post by starkiller on Dec 15, 2020 11:02:16 GMT
The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation isn't a front for SPECTRE. You dismiss Gates' many connections and influence too easily. It's lumped with microchips and 5g, and dismissed. I'm talking $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
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Post by Gob Bluth on Dec 15, 2020 11:06:47 GMT
Amusing and sickening in equal measure to see a load of wanker South East Tory MP's and councillors who piled into Burnham now blarting about levels of support. To Burnham's point it was headline news when it happened including headlines that highlighted the disparity and inconsistencies of the government's approach. Hancock said they would publish the scorecard but are still yet to do anything because it's far too complicated which is absolute nonsense. If I were AB I'd be so frustrated that the government have tried to say he was playing politics despite the fact the government u turned on every point when other parts of the country needed the support. Their denial that this happened removed the smallest amount of integrity they had left especially when Sunak was spouting this nonsense too.
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Post by wakefieldstokie on Dec 15, 2020 11:09:48 GMT
You have to smile (or cry) now that London is in Tier 3 and covid raging that the media are going nuts with the doomsday rhetoric. When it was raging in Manchester, Liverpool and the North East the attitude was much more ‘suck it up and deal with it’
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Dec 15, 2020 11:13:10 GMT
Name one country that has successfully implemented a targeted lockdown. It's sounds great in theory but impossible to implement in practice. The most successful countries (like South Korea and New Zealand) went for zero covid strategies - short sharp lockdowns backed up by effective track and trace. It's far easier to implement zero covid in a small country like New Zealand and South Korea had already got it's act together because of its experience with SARS. Zero covid was never really an option in the UK - we were simply unprepared and our track and trace has been a joke. However to claim lockdowns don't work is nonsense - if they didn't the number of deaths in China alone would have dwarfed the global death count to date. The fact of the matter with an effective vaccine now being rolled out the government isn't going to change it's approach any time soon - in fact flip flopping policy is probably the worst thing it could do now that the end is in sight. Zero covid in this country was impossible and any attempt to inflict such misery would have rightly caused a civil war. Track and trace - as you point out - was never going to work here because we dont have the technology for it. I agree - flip flopping is a disaster for business as is total shutdown. Spain, UK, Germany, France, Italy, Brazil and the US had a totally different beast to Australia and NZ so using them as a comparison is like comparing apples with bananas. Targeted lockdowns could have been used and will be used in the future. It will be the big take away from this pandemic along with the biggest global recession in history. Also can we not use China as any kind of respectable comparison? China has become one of the most corrupt, deceitful, disgusting and dishonest states the world has seen in a long time. This is the same nation that denies having concentration camps for Uigher Muslims and denies the fact that its government are actively pursuing a genocide that is every bit as horrifying as scenes in concentration camps all those years ago in Nazi Germany. Video footage proves it exists, the Chinese Communist Party deny it. They also hysterically deny having any more than around 4,000 covid deaths. No one believes that bullshit. Sorry to change subject slightly but any reference to Chinese stats should be shot down immediately. Zero covid in this country wouldn't have worked for many reasons. We are too densely populated and don't have the infrastructure (technical and organisational) to pull it off. Italy were unlucky in that they were the first to get covid and had no warning. Spain, France and the UK had the benefit of hindsight and all screwed up but the situation woul dhave been far worse had they not locked down. Germany took the warnings from Italy seriously, locked down quickly and have come out of it relatively well. Brazil and the US are/were run by right wing nut jobs and have done very badly - and it would have been worse had their local/state governments not ignored the lunatics in charge and implemented local lockdowns. No where has used targeted lockdowns. You have no examples to base your assumptions that this is the way forward. It's wishful thinking. China's appalling human rights record (which I condemn whole heartedly) has nothing to do with the effectiveness of lockdowns - they worked in China and that is nothing to do with the morality of their regime. I'm sure the Chinese figures aren't right but had they done as badly as us they would have had about 1.2 million dead rather than the reported (probably under estimated) 4,600. The Chinese government is secretive, ruthless and effective - but how the hell did they dispose of over 1 million bodies without anyone noticing? Fly tip them on the other side of the Great Wall? You're deflecting from my question. Name a country that successfully implemented a targeted lockdown.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Dec 15, 2020 11:15:43 GMT
The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation isn't a front for SPECTRE. You dismiss Gates' many connections and influence too easily. It's lumped with microchips and 5g, and dismissed. I'm talking $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ So is Gates. He's giving it away. Which is why he's hated by the libertarian right - his altruism exposes their utterly selfish take on capitalism.
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Post by LL Cool Dave on Dec 15, 2020 11:30:56 GMT
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