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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Dec 7, 2020 11:42:09 GMT
No - what the fuck is wrong with you. Strikes me that any one person's view of the pandemic will be shaped by personal experiences. If you're like that poor bloke on the coaching staff at Gloucester Rugby who lost both his Mum and his sister then it's understandably it's a crisis. If you're young and fit and so are your parents then it's 'what's all the fuss about?' The answer is - of course - somewhere between the two. Instead of acknowledging that it's too often the case that if you can't see someone else's point of view they're either thick or selfish or both. I really do sometimes think that the aspiration of getting the internet into every home was not necessarily a good thing and that making accessible by phone was truly a step to far. It's certainly divided society far more than it ever should. I actually agree with much of that. Although we shouldn't forget the hugely damaging role the media have played in creating a lot of the scare stories that have subsequently caused such division. Combine that with social media and hapless leadership from one of the most inept parliaments of our lifetime, and you've got a recipe for disaster. Take the bbc and the guardian as a prime example. For months on end they've backed the most severe lockdown measures on record and were consistently pro lockdown at all costs. In the past two weeks they've made a visible shift after seeing the economical ruins this has left us in and their headlines have changed from how many deaths a day to how many redundancies a day. Guess that's what happens when you shut a country down for a year. We've seen nothing yet.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Dec 7, 2020 11:44:13 GMT
The pro lockdown mob can't stand people going about their lives having fun. They are a particularly distasteful, disturbing and dislikeable bunch. My experience is that the "pro lockdown" mob are just cracking on making the best of a bad job. It's the fun loving anti lockdown mob who have done nothing but bitch since day one. Lockdown is shit. But it's better than filling up the hospitals with people gasping for their last breath just so the 24 hour party people can wave their hands in the air like they just don't care - even if they don't.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Dec 7, 2020 11:55:17 GMT
m I’m not sure that applies to the 60,000 dead and their families or the jumbo jet full dying every day But not of covid19. Why do you accept stats that have been shown time and time again to be manipulated and inflated, using numerous methods? This information is readily available and reported. There's no excuse. And the question remains, 'Why does a deadly pandemic require this manipulation and a PR campaign?' I accept the numbers issued by genuine medical and government authorities with a healthy sense check they may be out by a factor of 14% either way , that’s still 1.5million deaths world wide , the equivalent if 1/4 of the holocaust , or 3000 jumbo jets being crashed into the ground in a single year 8 a day m I’d say that merits pandemic status but admittedly I’m not a doctor , as a result I’d expect a significant media campaign rather than a back page article in the leek post and times
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Post by spitthedog on Dec 7, 2020 11:56:35 GMT
The pro lockdown mob can't stand people going about their lives having fun. They are a particularly distasteful, disturbing and dislikeable bunch. Nice little generalisation there. Have you met all of them then? We seem to be good at being totally divisive with everything these days, or is that just another crass generalisation?
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Post by franklin on Dec 7, 2020 11:58:54 GMT
The pro lockdown mob can't stand people going about their lives having fun. They are a particularly distasteful, disturbing and dislikeable bunch. And thats why I take no notice of the doom mongers. I know the score and act accordingly if it doesn't match the lock us all up brigades thought's I dont give a shit.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Dec 7, 2020 12:22:05 GMT
The pro lockdown mob can't stand people going about their lives having fun. They are a particularly distasteful, disturbing and dislikeable bunch. My experience is that the "pro lockdown" mob are just cracking on making the best of a bad job. It's the fun loving anti lockdown mob who have done nothing but bitch since day one. Lockdown is shit. But it's better than filling up the hospitals with people gasping for their last breath just so the 24 hour party people can wave their hands in the air like they just don't care - even if they don't. The hospitals will be filling up with a different type of patient next year. One thing is for certain - the divide between rich and poor will get far greater off the back of these monstrous lockdowns. It's always the way when a country is bankrupt.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Dec 7, 2020 12:44:23 GMT
Strikes me that any one person's view of the pandemic will be shaped by personal experiences. If you're like that poor bloke on the coaching staff at Gloucester Rugby who lost both his Mum and his sister then it's understandably it's a crisis. If you're young and fit and so are your parents then it's 'what's all the fuss about?' The answer is - of course - somewhere between the two. Instead of acknowledging that it's too often the case that if you can't see someone else's point of view they're either thick or selfish or both. I really do sometimes think that the aspiration of getting the internet into every home was not necessarily a good thing and that making accessible by phone was truly a step to far. It's certainly divided society far more than it ever should. As a society we've gotten more selfish and less empathetic and it's fully showing. The whole underlying causes thing being a case in point. Callous as fuck. Really? Surely it's the complete opposite and it's the "prevent death at all costs" and "health and safety first" mentality which is behind the reasoning for the highly controversial lockdowns we are seeing? This is the only virus in history that has seen such a "protective" (or destructive) reaction. The Romans were more concerned with military conflict and brothels than any virus, let alone one that has a 99% survival rate. The irony is that this new age of excessive health and safety measures can often prove more damaging than those before us. Can you imagine if we had a virus like the black Death where you'd have a 50/50 chance of survival regardless of age? The reaction of government and media intervention would kill us before the virus did. We will have a good idea in 4 or 5 years as to just how damaging lockdowns are as we haven't even got to the tip of the iceberg yet.
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Post by shakermaker on Dec 7, 2020 12:46:28 GMT
If only people could buy things online and have them delivered to their homes. Then shut the fucking shops. This whole thing has proved that people have zero common sense. If you open the shops then people will visit. There was never any question of the Government shutting down retail over Christmas when a huge proportion of businesses rely on Xmas footfall for a sizeable chunk of their annual profit. The Government surely knew that scenes like we’ve seen in Nottingham and Harrods would ensue, but they’ve again chosen to put economy before lives and keep up people’s morale over the festive period.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Dec 7, 2020 12:46:30 GMT
As a society we've gotten more selfish and less empathetic and it's fully showing. The whole underlying causes thing being a case in point. Callous as fuck. Really? Surely it's the complete opposite and it's the "prevent death at all costs" and "health and safety first" mentality which is behind the reasoning for the highly controversial lockdowns we are seeing? This is the only virus in history that has seen such a "protective" (or destructive) reaction. The Romans were more concerned with military conflict and brothels than any virus, let alone one that has a 99% survival rate. The irony is that this new age of excessive health and safety measures can often prove more damaging than those before us. Can you imagine if we had a virus like the black Death where you'd have a 50/50 chance of survival regardless of age? The reaction of government and media intervention would kill us before the virus did. We will have a good idea in 4 or 5 years as to just how damaging lockdowns are as we haven't even got to the tip of the iceberg yet. Like a monkey with shit in his hands clapping.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Dec 7, 2020 12:55:38 GMT
Strikes me that any one person's view of the pandemic will be shaped by personal experiences. If you're like that poor bloke on the coaching staff at Gloucester Rugby who lost both his Mum and his sister then it's understandably it's a crisis. If you're young and fit and so are your parents then it's 'what's all the fuss about?' The answer is - of course - somewhere between the two. Instead of acknowledging that it's too often the case that if you can't see someone else's point of view they're either thick or selfish or both. I really do sometimes think that the aspiration of getting the internet into every home was not necessarily a good thing and that making accessible by phone was truly a step to far. It's certainly divided society far more than it ever should. I actually agree with much of that. Although we shouldn't forget the hugely damaging role the media have played in creating a lot of the scare stories that have subsequently caused such division. Combine that with social media and hapless leadership from one of the most inept parliaments of our lifetime, and you've got a recipe for disaster. Take the bbc and the guardian as a prime example. For months on end they've backed the most severe lockdown measures on record and were consistently pro lockdown at all costs. In the past two weeks they've made a visible shift after seeing the economical ruins this has left us in and their headlines have changed from how many deaths a day to how many redundancies a day. Guess that's what happens when you shut a country down for a year. We've seen nothing yet. Just on the Guardian - it has a daily circulation of less than 125k - 10% of that of say the Daily Mail and one third that of the Telegraph - who have been more libertarian. It's an easy target but I think you rather overestimate the Grauniad's relevance and influence in the debate as there is more than adequate representation on the other side of the arguement. Indeed - as it should be - unless you don't want a free press.
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Post by hoffgreen on Dec 7, 2020 12:58:32 GMT
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Post by GrahamHyde on Dec 7, 2020 13:20:29 GMT
And I can't even go and sit in a cafe to work around here. The mind boggles. They're doing nothing wrong, but the restrictions for Tier 3 are too strict.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Dec 7, 2020 13:25:07 GMT
Really? Surely it's the complete opposite and it's the "prevent death at all costs" and "health and safety first" mentality which is behind the reasoning for the highly controversial lockdowns we are seeing? This is the only virus in history that has seen such a "protective" (or destructive) reaction. The Romans were more concerned with military conflict and brothels than any virus, let alone one that has a 99% survival rate. The irony is that this new age of excessive health and safety measures can often prove more damaging than those before us. Can you imagine if we had a virus like the black Death where you'd have a 50/50 chance of survival regardless of age? The reaction of government and media intervention would kill us before the virus did. We will have a good idea in 4 or 5 years as to just how damaging lockdowns are as we haven't even got to the tip of the iceberg yet. Like a monkey with shit in his hands clapping. Coming from a guy who has just accused society of being quote "less empathetic" than previous generations. I think that one tops the list.
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Post by Davef on Dec 7, 2020 14:30:25 GMT
But not of covid19. Why do you accept stats that have been shown time and time again to be manipulated and inflated, using numerous methods? This information is readily available and reported. There's no excuse. And the question remains, 'Why does a deadly pandemic require this manipulation and a PR campaign?' I accept the numbers issued by genuine medical and government authorities with a healthy sense check they may be out by a factor of 14% either way , that’s still 1.5million deaths world wide , the equivalent if 1/4 of the holocaust , or 3000 jumbo jets being crashed into the ground in a single year 8 a day m I’d say that merits pandemic status but admittedly I’m not a doctor , as a result I’d expect a significant media campaign rather than a back page article in the leek post and times 1.5 million deaths worldwide equates to less than 3% of all deaths this year. And at the risk of offending anybody (and it has been acknowledged by several leading sources), it should be pointed out that a large percentage of people who have sadly succumbed to the virus would have died this year anyway. If you want to start bringing up the Holocaust as a comparison to Covid deaths (which is questionably in rather poor taste), then consider that there have been over 7 millions deaths of children under 5 already this year, more than 10 million more deaths from communicable diseases (including 460,000 seasonal flu deaths), over 1.5M HIV/Aids deaths, over 1 million suicides and 1.2 road traffic fatalities. The pandemic hit hard in the spring and is now an endemic seasonal virus that will hopefully be combated with the help of the vaccines. Other measures are now totally disproportionate.
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Post by neworleanstokie on Dec 7, 2020 14:30:58 GMT
Why is the UK Govt promoting safe outdoor shopping? We have outdoor markets in NY here BUT everyone wears a face mask and stays 6ft away from each other.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Dec 7, 2020 14:34:33 GMT
My experience is that the "pro lockdown" mob are just cracking on making the best of a bad job. It's the fun loving anti lockdown mob who have done nothing but bitch since day one. Lockdown is shit. But it's better than filling up the hospitals with people gasping for their last breath just so the 24 hour party people can wave their hands in the air like they just don't care - even if they don't. The hospitals will be filling up with a different type of patient next year. One thing is for certain - the divide between rich and poor will get far greater off the back of these monstrous lockdowns. It's always the way when a country is bankrupt. What Covid has proven beyond the slightest doubt is that post banking crisis Austerity was a Political choice to attack the weakest in society and protect the establishment and not in the slightest way a necessity.
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Post by werrington on Dec 7, 2020 14:48:40 GMT
There’s people on here who are happy with that
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Dec 7, 2020 14:50:01 GMT
I accept the numbers issued by genuine medical and government authorities with a healthy sense check they may be out by a factor of 14% either way , that’s still 1.5million deaths world wide , the equivalent if 1/4 of the holocaust , or 3000 jumbo jets being crashed into the ground in a single year 8 a day m I’d say that merits pandemic status but admittedly I’m not a doctor , as a result I’d expect a significant media campaign rather than a back page article in the leek post and times 1.5 million deaths worldwide equates to less than 3% of all deaths this year. And at the risk of offending anybody (and it has been acknowledged by several leading sources), it should be pointed out that a large percentage of people who have sadly succumbed to the virus would have died this year anyway. If you want to start bringing up the Holocaust as a comparison to Covid deaths (which is questionably in rather poor taste), then consider that there have been over 7 millions deaths of children under 5 already this year, more than 10 million more deaths from communicable diseases (including 460,000 seasonal flu deaths), over 1.5M HIV/Aids deaths, over 1 million suicides and 1.2 road traffic fatalities. The pandemic hit hard in the spring and is now an endemic seasonal virus that will hopefully be combated with the help of the vaccines. Other measures are now totally disproportionate. You're not offending me - but while 1.5 million deaths is a small proportion compared to all mortality that has been in the back of unprecedented social restrictions to arrest the spread of the disease. The question therefore is not so much how many have died but how many would have died if we had not taken any action (answer - we don't know) - but whereas you say that many who died would probably have died anyway there are also many who would have died - but are still here - because of the action taken - and until said vaccine is available they and there families will no doubt be grateful such action continues to be taken. It's as I said earlier - it all depends on your own experience. If you've lost your job then the restrictions are draconian. If they've kept you alive they're bloody marvellous.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Dec 7, 2020 14:50:55 GMT
m I’m not sure that applies to the 60,000 dead and their families or the jumbo jet full dying every day But not of covid19. Why do you accept stats that have been shown time and time again to be manipulated and inflated, using numerous methods? This information is readily available and reported. There's no excuse. And the question remains, 'Why does a deadly pandemic require this manipulation and a PR campaign?' In the last year over 1.5 million people worldwide have died of covid and the figure is till rising with California, Germany and even Sweden imposing strict lockdowns to prevent second waves getting out of hand. Why would any government manipulate figures as part of some PR campaign about a non-existent pandemic? What have they got to gain by introducing unnecessary lockdowns and damaging their countries economies? It doesn't make sense.
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Post by Davef on Dec 7, 2020 14:54:19 GMT
Why is the UK Govt promoting safe outdoor shopping? We have outdoor markets in NY here BUT everyone wears a face mask and stays 6ft away from each other. Because as bad as our Government is, they're not as mad as Cuomo?
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Post by bgreen13 on Dec 7, 2020 15:39:57 GMT
Surprised they didn't use a water cannon... 🙄
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Post by smallthorner on Dec 7, 2020 15:44:01 GMT
1.5 million deaths worldwide equates to less than 3% of all deaths this year. And at the risk of offending anybody (and it has been acknowledged by several leading sources), it should be pointed out that a large percentage of people who have sadly succumbed to the virus would have died this year anyway. If you want to start bringing up the Holocaust as a comparison to Covid deaths (which is questionably in rather poor taste), then consider that there have been over 7 millions deaths of children under 5 already this year, more than 10 million more deaths from communicable diseases (including 460,000 seasonal flu deaths), over 1.5M HIV/Aids deaths, over 1 million suicides and 1.2 road traffic fatalities. The pandemic hit hard in the spring and is now an endemic seasonal virus that will hopefully be combated with the help of the vaccines. Other measures are now totally disproportionate. You're not offending me - but while 1.5 million deaths is a small proportion compared to all mortality that has been in the back of unprecedented social restrictions to arrest the spread of the disease. The question therefore is not so much how many have died but how many would have died if we had not taken any action (answer - we don't know) - but whereas you say that many who died would probably have died anyway there are also many who would have died - but are still here - because of the action taken - and until said vaccine is available they and there families will no doubt be grateful such action continues to be taken. It's as I said earlier - it all depends on your own experience. If you've lost your job then the restrictions are draconian. If they've kept you alive they're bloody marvellous. Yes. A lot of people fail to grasp that the 1.5 million is the figure after a nine month regime of various lockdowns and other measures.
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Dec 7, 2020 16:14:47 GMT
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Post by Paul Spencer on Dec 7, 2020 16:18:54 GMT
Finally.
Probably too much to hope this will happen here but it's a start nevertheless.
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Post by Davef on Dec 7, 2020 16:57:50 GMT
Finally. Probably too much to hope this will happen here but it's a start nevertheless. Is it too cynical suggest that this could happen when the vaccine starts rolling out in big numbers and a decrease in "cases" will be put down to the success of the jab?
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Post by Paul Spencer on Dec 7, 2020 17:15:02 GMT
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Post by andystokey on Dec 7, 2020 18:05:56 GMT
There is clearly some that do and some that don't, as I said a week or so ago there is a fight going on in the Tory party. They are hoping to blame shops, venues for taking this up. I don't trust them at all to tell the truth on withdrawal of powers post vaccine, some are clearly enjoying the extra control but daren't voice it for fear of backlash and take up.
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Post by thebet365 on Dec 7, 2020 18:07:11 GMT
Pisses me off how they've just got used to lying to us.
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Post by adri2008 on Dec 7, 2020 18:08:11 GMT
These 'vaccine passports' make no sense at all to me. By the time the vulnerable and susceptible have the jab (people who are likely to overwhelmingly in favour of it), you are left with the chunk of the population who are unlikely to get ill never mind die from this virus so why on earth would they need to have a passport?
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Post by starkiller on Dec 7, 2020 18:10:09 GMT
But not of covid19. Why do you accept stats that have been shown time and time again to be manipulated and inflated, using numerous methods? This information is readily available and reported. There's no excuse. And the question remains, 'Why does a deadly pandemic require this manipulation and a PR campaign?' Why would any government manipulate figures as part of some PR campaign about a non-existent pandemic? What have they got to gain by introducing unnecessary lockdowns and damaging their countries economies? It doesn't make sense. I totally agree. But they have. 'Why?', is the 64,000 dollar question.
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