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Post by Clem Fandango on Nov 24, 2020 10:00:42 GMT
£22B on test and trace and you still can't go out with a couple of mates for a quiet pint. I've never understood how its costing billions of pounds to run a glorified call centre (with no premises). The IT system behind it clearly isn't that sophisticated so I'm assuming some middle/upper management people are getting extremely wealthy from this. I've just sold an end to end 112 (Norway 999 equivalent) calltaking and dispatch system to Norway to run their fire service and with hardware, software, installation and support over 12 years its only £25 million. Fair enough staff costs aren't in there which are the probably the biggest expenditure but fuck knows how these clowns got to 22bn.
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Post by musik on Nov 24, 2020 10:11:30 GMT
Latest from Sweden
In March 2020 20% of the patients taken to Hospital due to Corona (not necessarily into an ICU) died. Now in November it's 8%.
Thomas Lindén at our authority Socialstyrelsen mentions as the main reason they have let people sleep on their stomach, not on the back. The survival rate increases significantly.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Nov 24, 2020 10:37:04 GMT
I've never understood how its costing billions of pounds to run a glorified call centre (with no premises). The IT system behind it clearly isn't that sophisticated so I'm assuming some middle/upper management people are getting extremely wealthy from this. I've just sold an end to end 112 (Norway 999 equivalent) calltaking and dispatch system to Norway to run their fire service and with hardware, software, installation and support over 12 years its only £25 million. Fair enough staff costs aren't in there which are the probably the biggest expenditure but fuck knows how these clowns got to 22bn. Not looking to defend them cos it's still a lot of money for a substandard product/service but just on costs doesn't Test and Trace also include the testing element not just the system and call centre. Ie test kits logistics, rental of test sites labour, lab costs for analysis etc?
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Post by Timmypotter on Nov 24, 2020 11:03:29 GMT
You keep banging on about how selfish the people of Stoke-on-Trent are, going shopping, letting work men into their homes. You keep telling us this isn’t a lockdown, the roads are as busy as ever. Make your mind up. Lockdown as a scientific experiment doesnt produce any consistent conclusion. For every blip down there is a rise somewhere else. When the rise happens it is correlated to the "flouting rules" narrative when the drop happens is the "lockdown works" narrative. It's the worst "experiment" of all time. The multiplicity if variables is huge. Some mass testing here, a tier difference there, a community hit hard the first time, a county full of cities here, rural settings there, a workforce of manual labour here, home workers there. University towns with students registered at their home addresses in a different town. The government are busy just trying to get numbers down but to claim anything is causal in this data set is pseudoscience of the worst kind. The proponents rely on confirmation rather than refutation. Lockdown as a benefit suffers at least six of the main problems with "ignoratio elenchi" *Assertions that do not allow the logical possibility that they can be shown to be false by observation or physical experiment *Reversed burden of proof: demand that skeptics demonstrate beyond a reasonable doubt that a claim is false. It is impossible to prove a universal negative, so this tactic incorrectly places the burden of proof on the skeptic rather than on the claimant *Assertion of claims that a theory predicts something that it has not been shown to predict *Assertion that claims which have not been proven false must therefore be true, and vice versa *Over-reliance on testimonial, anecdotal evidence, or personal experience *Presentation of data that seems to support claims while suppressing or refusing to consider data that conflict with those claims I could go on, However anyone that claims to say the various charts have any cause or effect with regard to lockdown is kidding themselves and is just displaying their personal confirmation bias. And not to mention that it looks like we're dealing with a seasonal virus which behaves very differently depending on whether it's encountered in a temperate, tropical, dry, continental environment. In South Africa there are studies that suggest lockdown has been effective, but not becuase it suppressed the virus, but rather that it concentrated infections amongst young people in townhships over summer months who live cheek by jowl. In Peru they've tried to implement a very strict lockdown and it's backfired in a big way, with the unintended consequences leading to the highest death rate in the world. Obviously I'm very much an armchair observer, not an expert immunologist or virologist. What I do know though, is that human beings can't escape the unintended consequences of policies that have largely been created by groping around in the dark.
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Post by Dresden_scfc on Nov 24, 2020 11:26:19 GMT
Where can you get a PCR test done for travelling to Spain, apparently you need to show a negative test on arrival no more than 72 hours before travel?
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Post by Dresden_scfc on Nov 24, 2020 11:28:04 GMT
£22B on test and trace and you still can't go out with a couple of mates for a quiet pint. It's an absolute joke
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Post by drfootball on Nov 24, 2020 11:45:52 GMT
Where can you get a PCR test done for travelling to Spain, apparently you need to show a negative test on arrival no more than 72 hours before travel? I think Boots do one, it`s around £120 though.
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Post by Dresden_scfc on Nov 24, 2020 11:51:16 GMT
Where can you get a PCR test done for travelling to Spain, apparently you need to show a negative test on arrival no more than 72 hours before travel? I think Boots do one, it`s around £120 though. cheers mate, I know it's steep isn't it
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 24, 2020 11:56:09 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2020 12:17:53 GMT
Latest data for Stoke on Trent updated today : Down 15% to 482 per 100k in a week after 2 months of it out of control Who says lockdowns don't work. Work? In what context? Do they work in terms of stopping the spread of Covid? Yes, of course they do. Do they also "work" in terms of bringing the economy to its knees? Yes, they do. Do they work by leaving hundreds of thousands out of work, struggling to pay bills and families not being able to put food on the table? Yes, they do. Do they work in creating a mass increase in cancer deaths due to delayed treatments and early diagnosis being missed? Yes, they do. Do they work in terms of causing mental health issues going through the roof, with suicide rates rocketing? Yes, they do. Clearly another one with his head in the sand.
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Post by Veritas on Nov 24, 2020 12:47:02 GMT
Latest data for Stoke on Trent updated today : Down 15% to 482 per 100k in a week after 2 months of it out of control Who says lockdowns don't work. Work? In what context? Do they work in terms of stopping the spread of Covid? Yes, of course they do. Do they also "work" in terms of bringing the economy to its knees? Yes, they do. Do they work by leaving hundreds of thousands out of work, struggling to pay bills and families not being able to put food on the table? Yes, they do. Do they work in creating a mass increase in cancer deaths due to delayed treatments and early diagnosis being missed? Yes, they do. Do they work in terms of causing mental health issues going through the roof, with suicide rates rocketing? Yes, they do. Clearly another one with his head in the sand. Basic point is we have had a massive increase in excess deaths and if the initial lockdown had been introduced earlier and harder the excess deaths would have been lower, we could have eased restrictions earlier and the economic resultant damage would have been less.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Nov 24, 2020 12:50:01 GMT
Latest data for Stoke on Trent updated today : Down 15% to 482 per 100k in a week after 2 months of it out of control Who says lockdowns don't work. Work? In what context? Do they work in terms of stopping the spread of Covid? Yes, of course they do. Do they also "work" in terms of bringing the economy to its knees? Yes, they do. Do they work by leaving hundreds of thousands out of work, struggling to pay bills and families not being able to put food on the table? Yes, they do. Do they work in creating a mass increase in cancer deaths due to delayed treatments and early diagnosis being missed? Yes, they do. Do they work in terms of causing mental health issues going through the roof, with suicide rates rocketing? Yes, they do. Clearly another one with his head in the sand. Obviously in the context of what was in my post, in getting the cases down. I'm not getting involved in the other aspects because it's been done to death, I know your views and you know mine and they won't change so what's the point.
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Post by Davef on Nov 24, 2020 12:53:43 GMT
It's a fair point isn't it? "I’m seeing patients that have facial rashes, fungal infections, bacterial infections. Reports coming from my colleagues, all over the world, are suggesting that the bacterial pneumonias are on the rise.
“Why might that be? Because untrained members of the public are wearing medical masks, repeatedly… in a non-sterile fashion… They’re becoming contaminated. They’re pulling them off of their car seat, off the rearview mirror, out of their pocket, from their countertop, and they’re reapplying a mask that should be worn fresh and sterile every single time.” www.walesonline.co.uk/news/education/pupils-staff-welsh-secondary-schools-19328640
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Post by zerps on Nov 24, 2020 13:06:42 GMT
Because we're the 7th worst area in the whole country! Yeah but what about the virus?
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 24, 2020 13:25:10 GMT
It's a fair point isn't it? "I’m seeing patients that have facial rashes, fungal infections, bacterial infections. Reports coming from my colleagues, all over the world, are suggesting that the bacterial pneumonias are on the rise.
“Why might that be? Because untrained members of the public are wearing medical masks, repeatedly… in a non-sterile fashion… They’re becoming contaminated. They’re pulling them off of their car seat, off the rearview mirror, out of their pocket, from their countertop, and they’re reapplying a mask that should be worn fresh and sterile every single time.” www.walesonline.co.uk/news/education/pupils-staff-welsh-secondary-schools-19328640You couldn't make it up, sadly ...
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 24, 2020 13:26:52 GMT
This figure doesn't mean a whole lot without context ... What percentage are occurring in a hospital setting and what percentage are occurring in a domestic setting?
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Post by Gary Hackett on Nov 24, 2020 13:28:52 GMT
Because we're the 7th worst area in the whole country! Yeah but what about the virus? Well I won't argue with that :-)
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Nov 24, 2020 13:42:48 GMT
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Post by prestwichpotter on Nov 24, 2020 13:48:21 GMT
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 24, 2020 13:58:39 GMT
So the total number of non Covid excess deaths for the year to date is 23?
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Nov 24, 2020 14:01:32 GMT
So the total number of non Covid excess deaths for the year to date is 23? I’m just posting what was tweeted Paul
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 24, 2020 14:03:58 GMT
So the total number of non Covid excess deaths for the year to date is 23? I’m just posting what was tweeted Paul What do you think of what was tweeted mate?
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Nov 24, 2020 14:06:23 GMT
I’m just posting what was tweeted Paul What do you think of what was tweeted mate? I think as you said 23 is obviously not the total of non Covid deaths but I do think it’s far worse than a lot of people on here perceive.
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Nov 24, 2020 14:07:06 GMT
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 24, 2020 14:10:17 GMT
What do you think of what was tweeted mate? I think as you said 23 is obviously not the total of non Covid deaths but I do think it’s far worse than a lot of people on here perceive. It's obviously complete rubbish. It would be interesting to know where the issue lies.
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Nov 24, 2020 14:11:16 GMT
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Post by adri2008 on Nov 24, 2020 14:14:03 GMT
My wife currently has 4 pupils out of 26 in one of her classes which is a bit ridiculous really. I think only 1 has actually been confirmed as an actual case. Mass testing needed in schools with a quick turn around if you are going to keep them open as you have loads of children out of education as a precaution basically.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Nov 24, 2020 14:15:42 GMT
So the total number of non Covid excess deaths for the year to date is 23? I’m just posting what was tweeted Paul whichever way you Treat it though there is no ambiguity to the fact that 60,000 + deaths were Covid attributed
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Post by Gods on Nov 24, 2020 14:16:43 GMT
I think as you said 23 is obviously not the total of non Covid deaths but I do think it’s far worse than a lot of people on here perceive. It's obviously complete rubbish. It would be interesting to know where the issue lies. Non Covid deaths roughly on a par with normal would be believable wouldn't it? The whole country out on a limb trying to avoid spreading infection and no one really going anywhere or doing anything. In fact I thought it might be down.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Nov 24, 2020 14:18:07 GMT
My wife currently has 4 pupils out of 26 in one of her classes which is a bit ridiculous really. I think only 1 has actually been confirmed as an actual case. Yep school years are being decimated around my way, when you're working and you have kids you just cross your fingers every day that you don't get the call. Some schools have been excellent, my eldest lad's school have set up mini bubbles within the classroom so even if there's a case or someone has symptoms it has fairly minimal impact, whereas some schools just send home the whole class or even the whole year. Quite a few of my friends or their other halves are teachers and I must say there is a lot of them who've either tested positive or had symptoms and had to isolate over the last 4/5 weeks compared to previously.....
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