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Post by crouchpotato1 on Nov 23, 2020 17:18:57 GMT
That Jack Brereton just stood up and asked Hancock and I’d be pretty hopeful after the praise he gave Stoke that it’ll be Tier 2 and not Tier 3 How can a place that's top 4 in the country not be tier 3? Im just going on the praise he gave him that’s all mate but yes you’ll probably be right
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Post by Gary Hackett on Nov 23, 2020 17:21:39 GMT
I wonder how we all survived not getting our information before twitter.
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Post by werrington on Nov 23, 2020 17:23:40 GMT
Just to add for those who think Stoke and it’s hospitals are on the edge
There’s 5 yes 5 empty beds on icu
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Post by Gary Hackett on Nov 23, 2020 17:25:17 GMT
Just to add for those who think Stoke and it’s hospitals are on the edge There’s 5 yes 5 empty beds on icu Which ICU?
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Nov 23, 2020 17:32:04 GMT
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Post by werrington on Nov 23, 2020 17:36:16 GMT
Just to add for those who think Stoke and it’s hospitals are on the edge There’s 5 yes 5 empty beds on icu Which ICU? Royal stoke
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Post by dexta on Nov 23, 2020 17:49:07 GMT
Just to add for those who think Stoke and it’s hospitals are on the edge There’s 5 yes 5 empty beds on icu probably be full if we weren't shipping patients out to other hospitals
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Post by andystokey on Nov 23, 2020 17:53:41 GMT
I wonder how we all survived not getting our information before twitter. Having just read all 64 pages of the Winter Covid Plan. I imagine before Twitter the Sentinel would have condensed it into 200 words with a total disregard for content, grammar and spelling (much the same as twitter but in print). I would have to wait for the news on Radio 4 for anything remotely comprehensible.
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Post by werrington on Nov 23, 2020 17:59:23 GMT
Just to add for those who think Stoke and it’s hospitals are on the edge There’s 5 yes 5 empty beds on icu probably be full if we weren't shipping patients out to other hospitals The fact there’s over 360 patients in royal stoke with COVID the fact there’s 5 empty icu beds confirms what I’ve been consistently saying on here in regards the real story
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Nov 23, 2020 18:10:50 GMT
Stoke now 7th
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Post by prestwichpotter on Nov 23, 2020 18:17:07 GMT
Just on the tail of the promotion pack, perfect.....
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Post by zerps on Nov 23, 2020 18:20:02 GMT
Can we go the pub next week?
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Post by Gary Hackett on Nov 23, 2020 18:35:25 GMT
Can we go the pub next week? No
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Post by zerps on Nov 23, 2020 18:42:14 GMT
Can we go the pub next week? No Depends what tier we end up in.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Nov 23, 2020 18:45:03 GMT
The idea of the "default narrative" is straight out of the conspiracy theory textbook. There is no "default narrative" at least in a working democracy with a free press and independent academic institutions. That "default narrative" is a consistent squabble of competing ideas - no-one person or institution is constructing an agreed "default narrative". Have you ever come across a news item in The Daily Mail and The Guardian that are presenting the same narrative - let alone The Socialist Worker and The Spectator. Who are the "they" - another alt right conspiracy theory construct. The internet was invented by the US military - if "they" really were in control letting it loose in the real world would make "them" look like complete idiots. The reality is the governance of the world wide web is shaped by the western liberal democratic ideas of a free press - not by the Orwellian "they" wanting to control the minds of their underlings. If anyone is into mind control it's those behind the alt right conspiracy theories. They want people to see the world in terms of competing narratives because if it came down to presenting evidence and being subject to the rigours of scientific and academic analysis their narrative would fall apart. They want to reduce debate to fight based on who has the best story to tell. Conspiracy theories are a secular religion for the internet age. People are good at constructing patterns and a narrative is a pattern in words. Homosapien's first attempt at explaining the world was via religion - which is a complex narrative with an internal logic that provides a comfortable home for brains that like patterns. Scientific and rigorous analysis do not come naturally and it took millenia for that way of thinking to challenge the religious view of the world and the most radical idea science has put out there is that the world isn't subject to any over arching narrative - it evolves through chance, cock up and happy incident and accumulates ways of being in the world that facilitate survival. Like democratic institutions and vaccinations. The most scary thing about conspiracy theories is that they want people to go back to believing in narratives - preferably theirs - nd the best way of doing that is to discredit the institutions that uphold a way of looking at the world that goes beyond believing fairy tales. The internet was free, a wild west. But in reaction to the proliferation of information, some of it uncomfortable truth, it's getting less and less so. When I talk about "they", its is not a homogenous conspiracy where some are in on it and some are not. I thought that was clear. I was talking about people in positions of public responsibility. Politicians, businesspeolle, journalist, yes even many doctors and scientists, have taken plenty of money to further profits by being flexible with the truth. Corporate scientists have undermined trust in something that should have remained sacrosanct. But where there is money and profit people no longer trust any voices. There a doctor driven opium epidemic in the states ffs. With television and print media as the primary information sources, it got increasingly difficult for investigative journalists to do their job as the last century went on. The Blair government in this country changed the game in terms of spin/ integrity pay off. And then into this vacuum of trust, where "they are all liars" "all the same" comes the internet. In the early 60's the Milgrim shock experiment demonstrated the level of peoples trust in assumed authority, a white coat was enough to potentially kill someone. In just over 50 years, half the western world wont have a vaccine or diesnt believe theres a virus at all. A white cant stop people potentially killing someone. That is a lot of squandered trust. Via corporate lobbying, corporate media and greedy politics. While I consider learning to suspend absolute trust of authority to have been rational, I totally agree with you that many peoples position of just adopting another absolute narrative has been a regretful consequence. We need to encourage scepticism not contrianism and paranoia. But I maintain this shit show is fifty years in the making and the type of people who lost the trust are among the same pushing the idea that they should be allowed to control the internet. That's going to work out well. Completely agree about scepticism - any sane person should treat all information sources and all forms of authority with a healthy degree of scepticism. But that's a far cry from cynicism - which in it's extreme form kills off acceptance of any information source as reliable and is just as dangerous as blind belief in authority. I also agree that standards of honesty in public life have deteriorated and contributed to the rise of cynicism (Boris Johnson made a deal with the EU and is trying to introduce a Bill that reneges on the deal and is in breach of international law - that's taking deceit to a whole new level). However I don't think the answer lies in yet more cynicism or abandoning belief in science and the institutions of a functioning democracy (like a free press) which is where the conspiracy theorists would have us go, I also want to keep the internet free of censorship (within the rule of legal frameworks to address matters such as exploitation and discrimination) - it's the first time in history that virtually every person on the planet has the opportunity to communicate and share ideas which is a fantastic opportunity for getting the world into a better place. The answer to misinformation and conspiracy theories isn't censorship - it's in educating people on how to critically assess information and the importance of evidence in deciding what might be true and what is manipulative bullshit. Despite the behaviour of individuals I think it's also important to have some faith in our institutions (the free press, university's - even parliament) and their practices (the legal process, our political processes and the scientific method), They aren't perfect and they certainly can be improved but trash them and we're back to living in caves and being shat on by the biggest bully out there - which is exactly where the conspiracy theorists would have us go either through pig ignorance of what they are doing or because they are in a position to exploit and profit from the chaos.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Nov 23, 2020 19:04:33 GMT
That Jack Brereton just stood up and asked Hancock and I’d be pretty hopeful after the praise he gave Stoke that it’ll be Tier 2 and not Tier 3 How can a place that's top 4 in the country not be tier 3? If you have a Tory MP you have a far better chance of being out of tier 3. The borough of Wigston had a higher infection rate than Labour controlled Leicester but their Tory mp got them out of lockdown via a private conversation with Hancock and by adding their figures to next door Oadby bringing the average down. Since then the Oadby and Wigston area's figures have overtaken Leicester and we're all now subject to the same rules. It really shouldn't work like this but this is the way the Johnson government operates - vote Tory and you're in with the in crowd. It's pathetic.
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Post by werrington on Nov 23, 2020 19:05:26 GMT
Depends what tier we end up in. If it’s not an upgraded tier 3 there’ll be a lot of upset people on here as they’ll be unable to revel in it The rest of us can keep our fingers crossed
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Post by Gods on Nov 23, 2020 19:11:39 GMT
Watching the PM.
'Squeeze the Disease' and 'Build Back Better' the new 'Get Brexit Done'
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Post by zerps on Nov 23, 2020 19:12:17 GMT
Depends what tier we end up in. If it’s not an upgraded tier 3 there’ll be a lot of upset people on here as they’ll be unable to revel in it The rest of us can keep our fingers crossed Miserable twats 👍
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Post by werrington on Nov 23, 2020 19:16:50 GMT
Watching the PM. 'Squeeze the Disease' and 'Build Back Better' the new 'Get Brexit Done' Tis the season to be jolly careful
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Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 23, 2020 19:23:44 GMT
How very fucking depressing. It's going to be bastard Easter before we can get a pint round here isn't it.
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Nov 23, 2020 19:26:10 GMT
How very fucking depressing. It's going to be bastard Eater before we can get a pint round here isn't it. It looks that way Momo but having watched Hancock praise Brereton/and all things Stoke this afternoon I still think there’s a chance of Tier 2🤔
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Nov 23, 2020 19:26:33 GMT
What a nonsense another golden opportunity to really drive the virus down squandered , 60 days to a serious number of vaccines and strong leadership and clear guidance what was desperately needed , instead more weak and confusing nonsense allowing ambiguity to be exploited . Obvious blueprint was 1 Tier 3 lockdown rules everywhere until January 31st 2 Furlough extended as is 3 interest free 5 year government loans for all effected business 4 Re-open 1st February 5 No household mixing at Xmas 6 Vaccine refusal for non medical prevents flying and entry to events , great to see Quantas take the lead today
Country comes out with minimum achievable loss of life and punching in February
Instead we set up a system destined to produce a daft Christmas compromise and the equivalent of crashing full jumbo jets into the ground every day in January in and February .
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Post by Gods on Nov 23, 2020 19:29:13 GMT
How very fucking depressing. It's going to be bastard Eater before we can get a pint round here isn't it. Yep, it's a 4-pack of Tennants Super in the park in North Staffs until Easter at the earliest! I reckon we are going Tier 2 down here in Surrey, low infection rates but a high 'R' rate of 1.2. Probably since most people have long since abandoned pretending there is any kind of lockdown going on ! Oh, there's that 'Squeeze the Disease' again, and again, I think if someone ever says that to you for real you are in your rights to clatter them :-)
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Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 23, 2020 19:31:04 GMT
How very fucking depressing. It's going to be bastard Eater before we can get a pint round here isn't it. It looks that way Momo but having watched Hancock praise Brereton/and all things Stoke this afternoon I still think there’s a chance of Tier 2🤔 Still no good to me. Most pubs I drink in idea of a 'substantial' meal is a Marlboro Light!
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Post by werrington on Nov 23, 2020 19:33:16 GMT
It looks that way Momo but having watched Hancock praise Brereton/and all things Stoke this afternoon I still think there’s a chance of Tier 2🤔 Still no good to me. Most pubs I drink in idea of a 'substantial' meal is a Marlboro Light! Old hut in Longton always guaranteed a knuckle sandwich back in the day
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Post by Davef on Nov 23, 2020 19:33:35 GMT
What a nonsense another golden opportunity to really drive the virus down squandered , 60 days to a serious number of vaccines and strong leadership and clear guidance what was desperately needed , instead more weak and confusing nonsense allowing ambiguity to be exploited . Obvious blueprint was 1 Tier 3 lockdown rules everywhere until January 31st 2 Furlough extended as is 3 interest free 5 year government loans for all effected business 4 Re-open 1st February 5 No household mixing at Xmas 6 Vaccine refusal for non medical prevents flying and entry to events , great to see Quantas take the lead today Country comes out with minimum achievable loss of life and punching in February Instead we set up a system destined to produce a daft Christmas compromise and the equivalent of crashing full jumbo jets into the ground every day in January in and February . You need putting out of your misery.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 23, 2020 19:37:04 GMT
What a nonsense another golden opportunity to really drive the virus down squandered , 60 days to a serious number of vaccines and strong leadership and clear guidance what was desperately needed , instead more weak and confusing nonsense allowing ambiguity to be exploited . Obvious blueprint was 1 Tier 3 lockdown rules everywhere until January 31st 2 Furlough extended as is 3 interest free 5 year government loans for all effected business 4 Re-open 1st February 5 No household mixing at Xmas 6 Vaccine refusal for non medical prevents flying and entry to events , great to see Quantas take the lead today Country comes out with minimum achievable loss of life and punching in February Instead we set up a system destined to produce a daft Christmas compromise and the equivalent of crashing full jumbo jets into the ground every day in January in and February . You ignored my post yesterday about your Uni students. Intrigued to know if they came home half way through term thus ignoring the rules?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2020 19:38:40 GMT
I've lost track of it all recently.
To recap, when can we expect the 4,000 deaths per day? Does that start tomorrow?
Its all a crock of shit.
How many unemployed as a result of lockdowns? 200k+, and still rising.
How many businesses are collapsing, or have completely folded? How many families struggling to pay bills and put food on the table?
How many people out there with mental health shot to pieces? Suicides going through the roof. Cancer deaths rising because treatments being delayed and early diagnosis being missed. Deaths from other diseases going up as everyone seems to think we should just be focusing on covid, and to hell with everything else.
Where do you draw the line?
We don't need yet more draconian measures.
You can't bury your head in the sand and clamour for eternal, zero tolerance lockdowns and ignore all the other chronic repercussions that causes in all other areas of life.
We need to move forward with a logical balance, that allows the economy to at least survive (ideally thrive) and give people a chance to get on with their lives, whilst minimising the spread with appropriate measures.
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Post by Davef on Nov 23, 2020 19:46:08 GMT
I've lost track of it all recently. To recap, when can we expect the 4,000 deaths per day? Does that start tomorrow? Its all a crock of shit. How many unemployed as a result of lockdowns? 200k+, and still rising. How many businesses are collapsing, or have completely folded? How many families struggling to pay bills and put food on the table? How many people out there with mental health shot to pieces? Suicides going through the roof. Cancer deaths rising because treatments being delayed and early diagnosis being missed. Deaths from other diseases going up as everyone seems to think we should just be focusing on covid, and to hell with everything else. Where do you draw the line? We don't need yet more draconian measures. You can't bury your head in the sand and clamour for eternal, zero tolerance lockdowns and ignore all the other chronic repercussions that causes in all other areas of life. We need to move forward with a logical balance, that allows the economy to at least survive (ideally thrive) and give people a chance to get on with their lives, whilst minimising the spread with appropriate measures. 165,000 people die of cancer every year in the U.K, many of them children and people under 50. The Government and charities spend £750M a year on research. The test and trace programme so far has cost £12 billion. How many lives has it saved, bearing in mind that the average age of Covid deaths is higher than the average life expectancy in this country?
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