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Post by wakefieldstokie on Nov 22, 2020 11:09:28 GMT
Becoming increasingly clear the government don’t possess the will to tackle a “ hard Xmas “ an£ that the Devine wave was triggered by students and schools , we are about to launch another lethal cocktail of sending the same students far and wide precisely as measures ease and ambiguity is exploited give it three or 4 weeks and we will be paying for Xmas with wave 3 and a January lockdown which the spin will be is buying time for the vaccination programme skirting another 10,000 of thousands of deaths and economic catastrophe it really needn’t be both , for the sake of a few sherry’s and a turkey . So your solution is to deprive children of an education and lock 100's of thousands of young adults into dormitories? Everything will be fine then will it? That’s not what he said at all. He stated what he thought kickstarted the wave, which is pretty much the case. Educating kids in school is one thing, and in my eyes much needed. Having a few days off for a glorified roast dinner and over eating with family is not.
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Post by adri2008 on Nov 22, 2020 11:14:29 GMT
Yes that does appear to be the case. It's just an unknown with this virus and I guess worse cases would trigger a stronger immune response? - I've no idea if a stronger response correlates with longer immunity though. Either way, I'll guess we'll know soon enough - if London starts on a sharp exponential path again it'll indicate immunity is waning. For London to start on a sharp exponential increase we'd have to assume that one day someone is immune and the next day they're not, which is just bonkers. We'd also have to assume that this sharp cutoff happened to hundreds of thousands of people all at the same time. Which is also bonkers. It's not going to happen. In the same way that the best before end date on my loaf of bread doesn't render it inedible at midnight, immunity to a virus doesn't just stop dead at an exact point in time. Obviously this wouldn't all occur on one day like a switch being turned on but its not unfeasible that you could have 10000s of people added back to the 'pool' over a relatively short period of time if the average immunity was only 6 months.
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Post by Timmypotter on Nov 22, 2020 11:16:28 GMT
So your solution is to deprive children of an education and lock 100's of thousands of young adults into dormitories? Everything will be fine then will it? That’s not what he said at all. He stated what he thought kickstarted the wave, which is pretty much the case. Educating kids in school is one thing, and in my eyes much needed. Having a few days off for a glorified roast dinner and over eating with family is not. The virus kickstarted the wave. We can't fight death, despite an emerging trend of seeing it as optional or only ever being caused by government incompetence. I got a fever and the only prescription is more cowbell.
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Post by Timmypotter on Nov 22, 2020 11:19:29 GMT
For London to start on a sharp exponential increase we'd have to assume that one day someone is immune and the next day they're not, which is just bonkers. We'd also have to assume that this sharp cutoff happened to hundreds of thousands of people all at the same time. Which is also bonkers. It's not going to happen. In the same way that the best before end date on my loaf of bread doesn't render it inedible at midnight, immunity to a virus doesn't just stop dead at an exact point in time. Obviously this wouldn't all occur on one day like a switch being turned on but its not unfeasible that you could have 10000s of people added back to the 'pool' over a relatively short period of time if the average immunity was only 6 months. And just as many falling back into the infected/recovery/immune pool. That's how endemism works.
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Post by Bojan Mackey on Nov 22, 2020 11:24:51 GMT
Also, if this virus is as deadly as we’re led to believe it is, then why are we considering a few days of normality and then shutting everything at a later date? If it was that bad why would you do that? Does it pick and choose the days when it’s deadly does it?
Media led fucking bollocks the lot of it.
And I’m not a denier, it does exist, in great numbers, but it does not warrant these medieval measures, it didn’t after we learned more about it after the first lockdown, we should have made an effort to live alongside it and protect the vulnerable, instead we are facing unemployment and economic shrinkage the likes of which we never thought we’d see again in our lifetimes, cancers missed, other disease missed, suicides rocketing, destitution climbing, widespread fear, grassing of neighbours, fines for living as a free human being.
Disgusting.
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Post by Soro's Sorrows on Nov 22, 2020 11:26:53 GMT
So your solution is to deprive children of an education and lock 100's of thousands of young adults into dormitories? Everything will be fine then will it? That’s not what he said at all. He stated what he thought kickstarted the wave, which is pretty much the case. Educating kids in school is one thing, and in my eyes much needed. Having a few days off for a glorified roast dinner and over eating with family is not. It's exactly what he said and is consistent with what he has been saying for months, in his eye's schools and students are the "problem". University students will be tested prior to returning home so why shouldn't they be allowed to do so? Perhaps you would like to confine them to dormitories as well?
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Nov 22, 2020 11:28:42 GMT
People in London are behaving in a much safer ways than pre pandemic but I agree not being especially good. I also agree with the general idea that London has some immunity now but have no idea what would happen with more "normality". And obviously there is concern with how long immunity lasts. If its 6 months ish could the Xmas shindig come just at the wrong time for London? The government seems committed to it's current course of action until a vaccine is rolled out any which way. The length of immunity is the biggest unknown right now in my opinion. If its similar to other 'regular' coronaviruses then apparently immunity is 6-9 months which is not going to be sufficient to get us through the winter. Right now it looks to me like London and the South East do at least have a degree of community immunity though which is suppressing the virus transmission to manageable levels. The infection rate in London is estimated at about 20% which is enough to suppress the transmission a bit but is way off levels for full blown herd immunity. The other factor put forward for the current low rates is that a high proportion of jobs in London are office based and proportionally more people are working from home - in fact many haven't gone back to work since the first lockdown. The other explanation is poor housing and deprivation - which is far higher in the north than the south. London were hit first and it only started to take off in the north when we headed into summer. The rates now probably reflect relative affluence as much as anything.
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Post by musik on Nov 22, 2020 11:28:44 GMT
Latest Sweden
According to the latest survey, 26% of the swedes won't take the vaccination shot. In August the number was 36%.
A Tegnell is questioned or hung in every paper and channel here. The reason is the leaked e-mails from and to him.
Herd immunity requires people to be infected. It was always the goal. If people were seriously protected herd immunity couldn't be achieved. Sacrifices. Mass murder, two political parties called it months ago.
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Post by adri2008 on Nov 22, 2020 11:30:27 GMT
Obviously this wouldn't all occur on one day like a switch being turned on but its not unfeasible that you could have 10000s of people added back to the 'pool' over a relatively short period of time if the average immunity was only 6 months. And just as many falling back into the infected/recovery/immune pool. That's how endemism works. It might usually work like that but you wouldn't usually have the population locked up at home either so the virus isn't running its normal course i.e running through the population until enough immunity is built up for it to fizzle out. Government's around the world are attempting to 'manage' its spread and effectively extending the whole thing.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Nov 22, 2020 11:31:18 GMT
The economic catastrophe has already happened Benji, one in four businesses do not think they will survive the next 12 weeks if measures remain in place. An entire country destroyed and healthy people imprisoned on the back of a shit powerpoint and a load of “what ifs”. Future generations will look upon 2020 as a crime against humanity. As it appears inflicted on the World by the communist PRC. Are you claiming the PRC did this deliberately for economic gain? If so where is your evidence?
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Nov 22, 2020 11:35:55 GMT
That’s not what he said at all. He stated what he thought kickstarted the wave, which is pretty much the case. Educating kids in school is one thing, and in my eyes much needed. Having a few days off for a glorified roast dinner and over eating with family is not. It's exactly what he said and is consistent with what he has been saying for months, in his eye's schools and students are the "problem". University students will be tested prior to returning home so why shouldn't they be allowed to do so? Perhaps you would like to confine them to dormitories as well? University student have already started to drift untested , no ws6 will they all be tested ,I’m not saying lock them up , I’m saying allow them home I’m a full lockdown unambiguous environment . I guarantee to the weekend of the 5th and 6th and 12 and13 and19 20 will see chaos under the current proposals in top of which impossible to police household mixing for a week is a recipe for a out of control virus
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Nov 22, 2020 11:37:07 GMT
Becoming increasingly clear the government don’t possess the will to tackle a “ hard Xmas “ an£ that the Devine wave was triggered by students and schools , we are about to launch another lethal cocktail of sending the same students far and wide precisely as measures ease and ambiguity is exploited give it three or 4 weeks and we will be paying for Xmas with wave 3 and a January lockdown which the spin will be is buying time for the vaccination programme skirting another 10,000 of thousands of deaths and economic catastrophe it really needn’t be both , for the sake of a few sherry’s and a turkey . University students are being tested before they go back. Bayern I’ve two in the family both at home no test
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Post by OldStokie on Nov 22, 2020 11:43:09 GMT
Becoming increasingly clear the government don’t possess the will to tackle a “ hard Xmas “ an£ that the Devine wave was triggered by students and schools , we are about to launch another lethal cocktail of sending the same students far and wide precisely as measures ease and ambiguity is exploited give it three or 4 weeks and we will be paying for Xmas with wave 3 and a January lockdown which the spin will be is buying time for the vaccination programme skirting another 10,000 of thousands of deaths and economic catastrophe it really needn’t be both , for the sake of a few sherry’s and a turkey .That highlighted bit I like, Benjamin, but the plural of sherry is either sherry or sherries (in the context you use it, it would be 'sherries') and not a possessive sherry's. As for the rest of your post, I tend to agree with you. OS.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Nov 22, 2020 11:51:55 GMT
Becoming increasingly clear the government don’t possess the will to tackle a “ hard Xmas “ an£ that the Devine wave was triggered by students and schools , we are about to launch another lethal cocktail of sending the same students far and wide precisely as measures ease and ambiguity is exploited give it three or 4 weeks and we will be paying for Xmas with wave 3 and a January lockdown which the spin will be is buying time for the vaccination programme skirting another 10,000 of thousands of deaths and economic catastrophe it really needn’t be both , for the sake of a few sherry’s and a turkey .That highlighted bit I like, Benjamin, but the plural of sherry is either sherry or sherries (in the context you use it, it would be 'sherries') and not a possessive sherry's. As for the rest of your post, I tend to agree with you. OS. www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/nov/21/locked-down-christmas-preferred-over-new-covid-restrictions-in-january-poll-finds
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Post by musik on Nov 22, 2020 11:52:18 GMT
As it appears inflicted on the World by the communist PRC. Are you claiming the PRC did this deliberately for economic gain? If so where is your evidence? I had that dream this night actually. 🤩 I wonder when they started their vaccination programme, was it in September or October? No 2nd wave there.
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Post by Soro's Sorrows on Nov 22, 2020 11:59:15 GMT
It's exactly what he said and is consistent with what he has been saying for months, in his eye's schools and students are the "problem". University students will be tested prior to returning home so why shouldn't they be allowed to do so? Perhaps you would like to confine them to dormitories as well? University student have already started to drift untested , no ws6 will they all be tested ,I’m not saying lock them up , I’m saying allow them home I’m a full lockdown unambiguous environment . I guarantee to the weekend of the 5th and 6th and 12 and13 and19 20 will see chaos under the current proposals in top of which impossible to police household mixing for a week is a recipe for a out of control virus Benji, we have to learn to live with this virus it will be with us forever, a vaccine won't eradicate it completely and thousands will continue to die of it every year. If you consider that a full unambiguous lockdown is required in order to live then what are we living for? The young people of this country are baring a huge burden for the older generation, they are extremely unlikely to die from the virus but their education is disrupted (at best), social interaction is banned and the unemployment rate for young adults is far higher than the general population. You now appear to advocate denying them family contact, if this were to happen then don't be surprised to see a rise in teenage suicide. It's not about a roast dinner or a few sherries, it's about family and in the end that's all we have.
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Post by musik on Nov 22, 2020 11:59:44 GMT
Latest Sweden According to the latest survey, 26% of the swedes won't take the vaccination shot. In August the number was 36%. A Tegnell is questioned or hung in every paper and channel here. The reason is the leaked e-mails from and to him. Herd immunity requires people to be infected. It was always the goal. If people were seriously protected herd immunity couldn't be achieved. Sacrifices. Mass murder, two political parties called it months ago. Btw, have they done any survey in England about the willingness among the people to have a vaccination done?
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Post by Gods on Nov 22, 2020 12:02:37 GMT
The Sunday Times normally has good insight in to what will happen next and here is what they are saying in today's paper:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Boris Johnson will outline a roadmap tomorrow to bring back 'normal life' by Easter next year. It will leave 'most people' unable to mix with family and friends before then, except for a brief period at Christmas.
The prime minister will confirm an end to the national lockdown on December 2 but announce plans for 3 new tiers of local restrictions which will be tougher than those in place in October.
The tiers will be suspended for between three and five days over Christmas, to allow families to celebrate, but will be re-imposed between January and March. However an Opinion poll for the Observer published last night found that, asked to choose between a Christmas lockdown and new restrictions in January, 54% of people were in favour of lockdown over Christmas and only 33% preferred January curbs.
Tens of millions of people will be told on Thursday that they are in tier 2 or tier 3 and banned from mixing with other households indoors. As well as the tiers becoming tougher more areas will be put in the higher tiers. 'Most people will be in tier 2 or tier 3' a senior government source said. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Enjoy?!
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Nov 22, 2020 12:04:28 GMT
Latest Sweden According to the latest survey, 26% of the swedes won't take the vaccination shot. In August the number was 36%. A Tegnell is questioned or hung in every paper and channel here. The reason is the leaked e-mails from and to him. Herd immunity requires people to be infected. It was always the goal. If people were seriously protected herd immunity couldn't be achieved. Sacrifices. Mass murder, two political parties called it months ago. Btw, have they done any survey in England about the willingness among the people to have a vaccination done? 66% would take a vaccine if the govt recommended it in a survey covered in a link I posted earlier.
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Post by musik on Nov 22, 2020 12:10:39 GMT
Btw, have they done any survey in England about the willingness among the people to have a vaccination done? 66% would take a vaccine if the govt recommended it in a survey covered in a link I posted earlier. I would have expected a higher percentage in both countries. Fear of side effects is the main reason here.
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Post by ColonelMustard on Nov 22, 2020 12:27:13 GMT
The Sunday Times normally has good insight in to what will happen next and here is what they are saying in today's paper: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Boris Johnson will outline a roadmap tomorrow to bring back 'normal life' by Easter next year. It will leave 'most people' unable to mix with family and friends before then, except for a brief period at Christmas. The prime minister will confirm an end to the national lockdown on December 2 but announce plans for 3 new tiers of local restrictions which will be tougher than those in place in October. The tiers will be suspended for between three and five days over Christmas, to allow families to celebrate, but will be re-imposed between January and March. However an Opinion poll for the Observer published last night found that, asked to choose between a Christmas lockdown and new restrictions in January, 54% of people were in favour of lockdown over Christmas and only 33% preferred January curbs. Tens of millions of people will be told on Thursday that they are in tier 2 or tier 3 and banned from mixing with other households indoors. As well as the tiers becoming tougher more areas will be put in the higher tiers. 'Most people will be in tier 2 or tier 3' a senior government source said. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Enjoy?! This lockdown is all about those 5 days. And the measure after will be harsher. To me it just smacks of Boris not wanting the legacy of being the pm who cancelled Christmas.
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shooters
Youth Player
POTTER POWER
Posts: 474
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Post by shooters on Nov 22, 2020 13:04:46 GMT
The Sunday Times normally has good insight in to what will happen next and here is what they are saying in today's paper: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Boris Johnson will outline a roadmap tomorrow to bring back 'normal life' by Easter next year. It will leave 'most people' unable to mix with family and friends before then, except for a brief period at Christmas. The prime minister will confirm an end to the national lockdown on December 2 but announce plans for 3 new tiers of local restrictions which will be tougher than those in place in October. The tiers will be suspended for between three and five days over Christmas, to allow families to celebrate, but will be re-imposed between January and March. However an Opinion poll for the Observer published last night found that, asked to choose between a Christmas lockdown and new restrictions in January, 54% of people were in favour of lockdown over Christmas and only 33% preferred January curbs. Tens of millions of people will be told on Thursday that they are in tier 2 or tier 3 and banned from mixing with other households indoors. As well as the tiers becoming tougher more areas will be put in the higher tiers. 'Most people will be in tier 2 or tier 3' a senior government source said. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Enjoy?! This lockdown is all about those 5 days. And the measure after will be harsher. To me it just smacks of Boris not wanting the legacy of being the pm who cancelled Christmas. True. Or the Pm/party with the media headlines about people dying in the corridors as there are not enough ventilators or dying in an ambulance at home because there's nowhere to take them to. Very difficult to balance and impossible to match up an appropriate action with everybody's personal situation.
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Post by thebet365 on Nov 22, 2020 13:11:17 GMT
The Sunday Times normally has good insight in to what will happen next and here is what they are saying in today's paper: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Boris Johnson will outline a roadmap tomorrow to bring back 'normal life' by Easter next year. It will leave 'most people' unable to mix with family and friends before then, except for a brief period at Christmas. The prime minister will confirm an end to the national lockdown on December 2 but announce plans for 3 new tiers of local restrictions which will be tougher than those in place in October. The tiers will be suspended for between three and five days over Christmas, to allow families to celebrate, but will be re-imposed between January and March. However an Opinion poll for the Observer published last night found that, asked to choose between a Christmas lockdown and new restrictions in January, 54% of people were in favour of lockdown over Christmas and only 33% preferred January curbs. Tens of millions of people will be told on Thursday that they are in tier 2 or tier 3 and banned from mixing with other households indoors. As well as the tiers becoming tougher more areas will be put in the higher tiers. 'Most people will be in tier 2 or tier 3' a senior government source said. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Enjoy?! The thing with these opinion polls though, These restrictions are coming no matter what, people are being asked as though it's only to allow Xmas, it's not.
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Post by Davef on Nov 22, 2020 13:13:06 GMT
This lockdown is all about those 5 days. And the measure after will be harsher. To me it just smacks of Boris not wanting the legacy of being the pm who cancelled Christmas. True. Or the Pm/party with the media headlines about people dying in the corridors as there are not enough ventilators or dying in an ambulance at home because there's nowhere to take them to. Very difficult to balance and impossible to match up an appropriate action with everybody's personal situation. They didn't seem to have a problem with it in 2018 when influenza was highlighted as a major cause of the 64,000 deaths in January and reports of patients waiting in corridors was all over the news.
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Post by Timmypotter on Nov 22, 2020 13:26:43 GMT
True. Or the Pm/party with the media headlines about people dying in the corridors as there are not enough ventilators or dying in an ambulance at home because there's nowhere to take them to. Very difficult to balance and impossible to match up an appropriate action with everybody's personal situation. They didn't seem to have a problem with it in 2018 when influenza was highlighted as a major cause of the 64,000 deaths in January and reports of patients waiting in corridors was all over the news. Which highlights a huge problem for the future. What happens next time there's a bad flu year and we match the number of excess deaths from this winter (which we will in most of our lifetimes I'm sure).
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Post by werrington on Nov 22, 2020 13:31:55 GMT
So your solution is to deprive children of an education and lock 100's of thousands of young adults into dormitories? Everything will be fine then will it? I honestly think some people have lost their marbles. I hope in the fullness of time scientists and politicians will be held to account. Its totally understandable in the beginning that mistakes were made, it's a new virus. However what has happened since the Summer borders on insanity. Theresa May and senior cabinet ministers sat and drew up a plan to tackle such a scenario ....They ignored it Cobra met to discuss the impending danger and ...The PM never attended the meetings None of that was understandable or acceptable mate
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Nov 22, 2020 13:39:58 GMT
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Post by andystokey on Nov 22, 2020 13:55:28 GMT
I see Sunak is getting us ready for the inevitable payback which will mean misery for millions for years to come. This will make the banking crisis look like losing a pound coin down the back of the sofa.
"It is not just numbers on a chart, it is people's lives and livelihoods, it's their security being impacted. And it is something that we are going to grapple with for a while to come, sadly."
Earlier, he told the Sunday Times people would soon see "the scale of the economic shock laid bare" , indicating taxes might have to start rising next year and there could be spending cuts.
The ONS says
"Government borrowing has reached £214.9bn - £169.1bn more than a year ago. The Office for Budget Responsibility has estimated it could reach £372.2bn by the end of the financial year in March.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 22, 2020 14:19:45 GMT
University students are being tested before they go back. Bayern I’ve two in the family both at home no test They shouldn’t have come home yet unless they’re the commuting students.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 22, 2020 14:20:45 GMT
I see Sunak is getting us ready for the inevitable payback which will mean misery for millions for years to come. This will make the banking crisis look like losing a pound coin down the back of the sofa. "It is not just numbers on a chart, it is people's lives and livelihoods, it's their security being impacted. And it is something that we are going to grapple with for a while to come, sadly."Earlier, he told the Sunday Times people would soon see "the scale of the economic shock laid bare" , indicating taxes might have to start rising next year and there could be spending cuts.The ONS says "Government borrowing has reached £214.9bn - £169.1bn more than a year ago. The Office for Budget Responsibility has estimated it could reach £372.2bn by the end of the financial year in March. Spending cuts make zero sense. Absolute ideological bullshit.
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