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Post by andystokey on Nov 22, 2020 0:45:03 GMT
Yes, I posted on here a few days ago that lockdown doesn't exist around here. Roads are rammed, retail parks packed, people going into other peoples homes, builders disregarding self isolation rules and just a general blasé attitude that's commonplace on here. Well done everyone. People are following the rules if they are on the road to work, go shopping, go to school and loads of valid reasons. Retail isn't closed, shops supermarkets, diy and garden centres. These people aren't breaking the rules. Your argument is predicated on the fact that the rules work. I suggest that cases will grow even if the rules are followed. Which is it the people or the rules?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 22, 2020 0:46:02 GMT
It's the same all over the country mate. Well it makes me so angry Paul because this is what I've been getting at. People with the I'm alright Jack attitude (not yourself) refusing to recognise there's an issue and not complying with the rules. The government won't allow this to spiral out of control that has been clear from the start so if people don't help each other to reduce infections things won't get better, and we'll all suffer as a consequence. I'm totally exasperated with it all I really am. They are complying with the rules though? Most things are open bar pubs, restaurants and clothes shops.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 22, 2020 0:46:26 GMT
It's the same all over the country mate. Well it makes me so angry Paul because this is what I've been getting at. People with the I'm alright Jack attitude (not yourself) refusing to recognise there's an issue and not complying with the rules. The government won't allow this to spiral out of control that has been clear from the start so if people don't help each other to reduce infections things won't get better, and we'll all suffer as a consequence. I'm totally exasperated with it all I really am. What I'm getting at mate, is that when it comes to personal behaviour, the good folks of Stoke-on-Trent are no different to the good folks of Liverpool. However, the number of 'cases' are rising in Stoke but are plummeting in Liverpool.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Nov 22, 2020 0:51:51 GMT
Well it makes me so angry Paul because this is what I've been getting at. People with the I'm alright Jack attitude (not yourself) refusing to recognise there's an issue and not complying with the rules. The government won't allow this to spiral out of control that has been clear from the start so if people don't help each other to reduce infections things won't get better, and we'll all suffer as a consequence. I'm totally exasperated with it all I really am. What I'm getting at mate, is that when it comes to personal behaviour, the good folks of Stoke-on-Trent are no different to the good folks of Liverpool. However, the number of 'cases' are rising in Stoke but are plummeting in Liverpool. And why do you think that is? Its because Liverpool was put into stricter restrictions much earlier and they're now getting it under control People on here were moaning that the local authority had put us into tier 2 too soon. Well it clearly wasn't too soon it was too late. Its ridiculous.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Nov 22, 2020 0:58:03 GMT
Well it makes me so angry Paul because this is what I've been getting at. People with the I'm alright Jack attitude (not yourself) refusing to recognise there's an issue and not complying with the rules. The government won't allow this to spiral out of control that has been clear from the start so if people don't help each other to reduce infections things won't get better, and we'll all suffer as a consequence. I'm totally exasperated with it all I really am. They are complying with the rules though? Most things are open bar pubs, restaurants and clothes shops. Going into other people's houses, shopping every day when it's not essential, people refusing to self isolate, people not working from work when they can is not complying with the rules. My parents live in North Wales, because they went into lockdown earlier they can now go about things as normal for a while whilst we're enduring weeks of more bullshit.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 22, 2020 0:59:08 GMT
What I'm getting at mate, is that when it comes to personal behaviour, the good folks of Stoke-on-Trent are no different to the good folks of Liverpool. However, the number of 'cases' are rising in Stoke but are plummeting in Liverpool. And why do you think that is? Its because Liverpool was put into stricter restrictions much earlier and they're now getting it under control People on here were moaning that the local authority had put us into tier 2 too soon. Well it clearly wasn't too soon it was too late. Its ridiculous. No it's because it's got nothing to do with lockdowns.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 22, 2020 1:02:08 GMT
They are complying with the rules though? Most things are open bar pubs, restaurants and clothes shops. Going into other people's houses, shopping every day when it's not essential, people refusing to self isolate, people not working from work when they can is not complying with the rules. My parents live in North Wales, because they went into lockdown earlier they can now go about things as normal for a while whilst we're enduring weeks of more bullshit. We didn’t need a lockdown. The rules are an ass, most places are open, most people I know are working from their work and not home because businesses aren’t implementing because they don’t have to. The things you originally mentioned aren’t breaking the rules. Half of the stuff in that post aren’t either.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Nov 22, 2020 1:05:29 GMT
And why do you think that is? Its because Liverpool was put into stricter restrictions much earlier and they're now getting it under control People on here were moaning that the local authority had put us into tier 2 too soon. Well it clearly wasn't too soon it was too late. Its ridiculous. No it's because it's got nothing to do with lockdowns. So it was tier 2 then.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 22, 2020 1:07:39 GMT
Going into other people's houses, shopping every day when it's not essential, people refusing to self isolate, people not working from work when they can is not complying with the rules. My parents live in North Wales, because they went into lockdown earlier they can now go about things as normal for a while whilst we're enduring weeks of more bullshit. We didn’t need a lockdown. The rules are an ass, most places are open, most people I know are working from their work and not home because businesses aren’t implementing because they don’t have to. The things you originally mentioned aren’t breaking the rules. Half of the stuff in that post aren’t either. Exactly. People aren't going about their daily business any differently in Bootle than they are doing in Hanley but the case rates are currently going in completely different directions. They'll start falling in Stoke soon enough, with or without lockdown.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 22, 2020 1:10:14 GMT
No it's because it's got nothing to do with lockdowns. So it was tier 2 then. No. They'd be going back up by now in Liverpool wouldn't they, if the people of Stoke and the people of Liverpool are behaving in the same way?
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Post by Gary Hackett on Nov 22, 2020 1:11:29 GMT
Going into other people's houses, shopping every day when it's not essential, people refusing to self isolate, people not working from work when they can is not complying with the rules. My parents live in North Wales, because they went into lockdown earlier they can now go about things as normal for a while whilst we're enduring weeks of more bullshit. We didn’t need a lockdown. The government will not allow deaths en mass. Whether you agree with that or not is a totally different conversation but that's how it is and it won't change no matter what happens. So on that basis you have no other option but to be pragmatic about it all and say so OK on that basis what is the best way we as members of public can get ourselves out of this mess with the minimal of damage.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Nov 22, 2020 1:22:30 GMT
No. They'd be going back up by now in Liverpool wouldn't they, if the people of Stoke and the people of Liverpool are behaving in the same way? Why would they be going back up in Liverpool once they've got a handle on it. That's like saying after the last lockdown they'd be going straight back up but they didn't. Once you get it under control there's a good chance they will stay under control as long as people follow the restrictions. I'm not convinced that people around here are acting as diligently as in Liverpool, I think in Liverpool they've accepted they had an issue and dealt with it accordingly whereas the penny hasn't dropped around here for various reasons which I've tried to highlight.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 22, 2020 1:37:24 GMT
No. They'd be going back up by now in Liverpool wouldn't they, if the people of Stoke and the people of Liverpool are behaving in the same way? Why would they be going back up in Liverpool once they've got a handle on it. That's like saying after the last lockdown they'd be going straight back up but they didn't. Once you get it under control there's a good chance they will stay under control as long as people follow the restrictions. I'm not convinced that people around here are acting as diligently as in Liverpool, I think in Liverpool they've accepted they had an issue and dealt with it accordingly whereas the penny hasn't dropped around here for various reasons which I've tried to highlight. Oh come on mate, the reason it's going up here but going in down in Liverpool, is because the people of Stoke are more stupid than the people in Liverpool ... seriously? There is absolutely no difference whatsoever between how the folk in Liverpool and the folk in Stoke are currently going about their daily business ... none. With the greatest of respect, I've been asking you for eight weeks now, why cases haven't been taking off in London and for those last eight weeks, you've been telling me to be patient, it's just a matter of time, they'll start taking off soon but it hasn't happened has it and it's actually not going to take off a second time is it? London had developed a level of community immunity in the spring, Liverpool didn't first time around but is beginning to do so now and Stoke-on-Trent will do so soon enough.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Nov 22, 2020 1:45:29 GMT
Why would they be going back up in Liverpool once they've got a handle on it. That's like saying after the last lockdown they'd be going straight back up but they didn't. Once you get it under control there's a good chance they will stay under control as long as people follow the restrictions. I'm not convinced that people around here are acting as diligently as in Liverpool, I think in Liverpool they've accepted they had an issue and dealt with it accordingly whereas the penny hasn't dropped around here for various reasons which I've tried to highlight. Oh come on mate, the reason it's going up here but going in down in Liverpool, is because the people of Stoke are more stupid than the people in Liverpool ... seriously? There is absolutely no difference whatsoever between how the folk in Liverpool and the folk in Stoke are currently going about their daily business ... none. With the greatest of respect, I've been asking you for eight weeks now, why cases haven't been taking off in London and for those last eight weeks, you've been telling me to be patient, it's just a matter of time, they'll start taking off soon but it hasn't happened has it and it's actually not going to take off a second time is it? London had developed a level of community immunity in the spring, Liverpool didn't first time around but is beginning to do so now and Stoke-on-Trent will do so soon enough. Well I don't agree with this community immunity theory so we'll have to agree to disagree. Goodnight mate.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 22, 2020 1:51:29 GMT
Oh come on mate, the reason it's going up here but going in down in Liverpool, is because the people of Stoke are more stupid than the people in Liverpool ... seriously? There is absolutely no difference whatsoever between how the folk in Liverpool and the folk in Stoke are currently going about their daily business ... none. With the greatest of respect, I've been asking you for eight weeks now, why cases haven't been taking off in London and for those last eight weeks, you've been telling me to be patient, it's just a matter of time, they'll start taking off soon but it hasn't happened has it and it's actually not going to take off a second time is it? London had developed a level of community immunity in the spring, Liverpool didn't first time around but is beginning to do so now and Stoke-on-Trent will do so soon enough. Well I don't agree with this community immunity theory so we'll have to agree to disagree. Goodnight mate. Oh, I know you don't mate but I don't agree that the 9 million people in the capital are simply just being 'good' either ... so yes, let's agree to disagree. Good night fella.
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Post by starkiller on Nov 22, 2020 2:34:28 GMT
It's the same all over the country mate. Well it makes me so angry Paul because this is what I've been getting at. People with the I'm alright Jack attitude (not yourself) refusing to recognise there's an issue and not complying with the rules. The government won't allow this to spiral out of control that has been clear from the start so if people don't help each other to reduce infections things won't get better, and we'll all suffer as a consequence. I'm totally exasperated with it all I really am. Maybe we should just weld you into your home for your own safety, like they did in China. Maybe with Gods, and Biscuit too, and anyone else that wants more draconian restrictions and likes telling others what to do. Let the rest of us get on with things
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Post by greenhoff on Nov 22, 2020 2:37:13 GMT
Why would they be going back up in Liverpool once they've got a handle on it. That's like saying after the last lockdown they'd be going straight back up but they didn't. Once you get it under control there's a good chance they will stay under control as long as people follow the restrictions. I'm not convinced that people around here are acting as diligently as in Liverpool, I think in Liverpool they've accepted they had an issue and dealt with it accordingly whereas the penny hasn't dropped around here for various reasons which I've tried to highlight. Oh come on mate, the reason it's going up here but going in down in Liverpool, is because the people of Stoke are more stupid than the people in Liverpool ... seriously? There is absolutely no difference whatsoever between how the folk in Liverpool and the folk in Stoke are currently going about their daily business ... none. With the greatest of respect, I've been asking you for eight weeks now, why cases haven't been taking off in London and for those last eight weeks, you've been telling me to be patient, it's just a matter of time, they'll start taking off soon but it hasn't happened has it and it's actually not going to take off a second time is it? London had developed a level of community immunity in the spring, Liverpool didn't first time around but is beginning to do so now and Stoke-on-Trent will do so soon enough. Bang on the money. This is exactly what is happening
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Post by ColonelMustard on Nov 22, 2020 6:23:47 GMT
Well I don't agree with this community immunity theory so we'll have to agree to disagree. Goodnight mate. Oh, I know you don't mate but I don't agree that the 9 million people in the capital are simply just being 'good' either ... so yes, let's agree to disagree. Good night fella. People in London are behaving in a much safer ways than pre pandemic but I agree not being especially good. I also agree with the general idea that London has some immunity now but have no idea what would happen with more "normality". And obviously there is concern with how long immunity lasts. If its 6 months ish could the Xmas shindig come just at the wrong time for London? The government seems committed to it's current course of action until a vaccine is rolled out any which way.
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Post by adri2008 on Nov 22, 2020 6:50:41 GMT
Oh, I know you don't mate but I don't agree that the 9 million people in the capital are simply just being 'good' either ... so yes, let's agree to disagree. Good night fella. People in London are behaving in a much safer ways than pre pandemic but I agree not being especially good. I also agree with the general idea that London has some immunity now but have no idea what would happen with more "normality". And obviously there is concern with how long immunity lasts. If its 6 months ish could the Xmas shindig come just at the wrong time for London? The government seems committed to it's current course of action until a vaccine is rolled out any which way. The length of immunity is the biggest unknown right now in my opinion. If its similar to other 'regular' coronaviruses then apparently immunity is 6-9 months which is not going to be sufficient to get us through the winter. Right now it looks to me like London and the South East do at least have a degree of community immunity though which is suppressing the virus transmission to manageable levels.
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Post by hotterpotter on Nov 22, 2020 7:25:15 GMT
Well it makes me so angry Paul because this is what I've been getting at. People with the I'm alright Jack attitude (not yourself) refusing to recognise there's an issue and not complying with the rules. The government won't allow this to spiral out of control that has been clear from the start so if people don't help each other to reduce infections things won't get better, and we'll all suffer as a consequence. I'm totally exasperated with it all I really am. Maybe we should just weld you into your home for your own safety, like they did in China. Maybe with Gods, and Biscuit too, and anyone else that wants more draconian restrictions and likes telling others what to do. Let the rest of us get on with things Welding people into their homes sounds a bit extreme. I wouldn't go that far myself.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Nov 22, 2020 9:19:08 GMT
Becoming increasingly clear the government don’t possess the will to tackle a “ hard Xmas “ an£ that the Devine wave was triggered by students and schools , we are about to launch another lethal cocktail of
sending the same students far and wide precisely as measures ease and ambiguity is exploited
give it three or 4 weeks and we will be paying for Xmas with wave 3 and a January lockdown which the spin will be is buying time for the vaccination programme skirting another 10,000 of thousands of deaths and economic catastrophe it really needn’t be both , for the sake of a few sherry’s and a turkey .
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Post by andystokey on Nov 22, 2020 9:37:22 GMT
People in London are behaving in a much safer ways than pre pandemic but I agree not being especially good. I also agree with the general idea that London has some immunity now but have no idea what would happen with more "normality". And obviously there is concern with how long immunity lasts. If its 6 months ish could the Xmas shindig come just at the wrong time for London? The government seems committed to it's current course of action until a vaccine is rolled out any which way. The length of immunity is the biggest unknown right now in my opinion. If its similar to other 'regular' coronaviruses then apparently immunity is 6-9 months which is not going to be sufficient to get us through the winter. Right now it looks to me like London and the South East do at least have a degree of community immunity though which is suppressing the virus transmission to manageable levels. Isn't there good scientific data to show the original SARS virus T cell immunity is around 17 years now? Six months was the minimum not the likely value.
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Post by wakefieldstokie on Nov 22, 2020 10:08:37 GMT
Becoming increasingly clear the government don’t possess the will to tackle a “ hard Xmas “ an£ that the Devine wave was triggered by students and schools , we are about to launch another lethal cocktail of sending the same students far and wide precisely as measures ease and ambiguity is exploited give it three or 4 weeks and we will be paying for Xmas with wave 3 and a January lockdown which the spin will be is buying time for the vaccination programme skirting another 10,000 of thousands of deaths and economic catastrophe it really needn’t be both , for the sake of a few sherry’s and a turkey . Agreed. The whole potential relaxing of rules for Christmas seems like absolute madness, completely nuts. Why? I just don’t get it, I think you might be right- a good push for covid and a reason to ‘market’ the vaccine. January will be bloody awful
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Post by adri2008 on Nov 22, 2020 10:48:35 GMT
The length of immunity is the biggest unknown right now in my opinion. If its similar to other 'regular' coronaviruses then apparently immunity is 6-9 months which is not going to be sufficient to get us through the winter. Right now it looks to me like London and the South East do at least have a degree of community immunity though which is suppressing the virus transmission to manageable levels. Isn't there good scientific data to show the original SARS virus T cell immunity is around 17 years now? Six months was the minimum not the likely value. Yes that does appear to be the case. It's just an unknown with this virus and I guess worse cases would trigger a stronger immune response? - I've no idea if a stronger response correlates with longer immunity though. Either way, I'll guess we'll know soon enough - if London starts on a sharp exponential path again it'll indicate immunity is waning.
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Post by Timmypotter on Nov 22, 2020 10:56:46 GMT
Isn't there good scientific data to show the original SARS virus T cell immunity is around 17 years now? Six months was the minimum not the likely value. Yes that does appear to be the case. It's just an unknown with this virus and I guess worse cases would trigger a stronger immune response? - I've no idea if a stronger response correlates with longer immunity though. Either way, I'll guess we'll know soon enough - if London starts on a sharp exponential path again it'll indicate immunity is waning. For London to start on a sharp exponential increase we'd have to assume that one day someone is immune and the next day they're not, which is just bonkers. We'd also have to assume that this sharp cutoff happened to hundreds of thousands of people all at the same time. Which is also bonkers. It's not going to happen. In the same way that the best before end date on my loaf of bread doesn't render it inedible at midnight, immunity to a virus doesn't just stop dead at an exact point in time.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 22, 2020 10:57:41 GMT
Becoming increasingly clear the government don’t possess the will to tackle a “ hard Xmas “ an£ that the Devine wave was triggered by students and schools , we are about to launch another lethal cocktail of sending the same students far and wide precisely as measures ease and ambiguity is exploited give it three or 4 weeks and we will be paying for Xmas with wave 3 and a January lockdown which the spin will be is buying time for the vaccination programme skirting another 10,000 of thousands of deaths and economic catastrophe it really needn’t be both , for the sake of a few sherry’s and a turkey . University students are being tested before they go back.
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Post by Soro's Sorrows on Nov 22, 2020 11:00:58 GMT
Becoming increasingly clear the government don’t possess the will to tackle a “ hard Xmas “ an£ that the Devine wave was triggered by students and schools , we are about to launch another lethal cocktail of sending the same students far and wide precisely as measures ease and ambiguity is exploited give it three or 4 weeks and we will be paying for Xmas with wave 3 and a January lockdown which the spin will be is buying time for the vaccination programme skirting another 10,000 of thousands of deaths and economic catastrophe it really needn’t be both , for the sake of a few sherry’s and a turkey . So your solution is to deprive children of an education and lock 100's of thousands of young adults into dormitories? Everything will be fine then will it?
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Post by Bojan Mackey on Nov 22, 2020 11:04:34 GMT
Becoming increasingly clear the government don’t possess the will to tackle a “ hard Xmas “ an£ that the Devine wave was triggered by students and schools , we are about to launch another lethal cocktail of sending the same students far and wide precisely as measures ease and ambiguity is exploited give it three or 4 weeks and we will be paying for Xmas with wave 3 and a January lockdown which the spin will be is buying time for the vaccination programme skirting another 10,000 of thousands of deaths and economic catastrophe it really needn’t be both , for the sake of a few sherry’s and a turkey . The economic catastrophe has already happened Benji, one in four businesses do not think they will survive the next 12 weeks if measures remain in place. An entire country destroyed and healthy people imprisoned on the back of a shit powerpoint and a load of “what ifs”. Future generations will look upon 2020 as a crime against humanity.
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Post by greenhoff on Nov 22, 2020 11:07:06 GMT
Becoming increasingly clear the government don’t possess the will to tackle a “ hard Xmas “ an£ that the Devine wave was triggered by students and schools , we are about to launch another lethal cocktail of sending the same students far and wide precisely as measures ease and ambiguity is exploited give it three or 4 weeks and we will be paying for Xmas with wave 3 and a January lockdown which the spin will be is buying time for the vaccination programme skirting another 10,000 of thousands of deaths and economic catastrophe it really needn’t be both , for the sake of a few sherry’s and a turkey . So your solution is to deprive children of an education and lock 100's of thousands of young adults into dormitories? Everything will be fine then will it? I honestly think some people have lost their marbles. I hope in the fullness of time scientists and politicians will be held to account. Its totally understandable in the beginning that mistakes were made, it's a new virus. However what has happened since the Summer borders on insanity.
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Post by crapslinger on Nov 22, 2020 11:08:31 GMT
Becoming increasingly clear the government don’t possess the will to tackle a “ hard Xmas “ an£ that the Devine wave was triggered by students and schools , we are about to launch another lethal cocktail of sending the same students far and wide precisely as measures ease and ambiguity is exploited give it three or 4 weeks and we will be paying for Xmas with wave 3 and a January lockdown which the spin will be is buying time for the vaccination programme skirting another 10,000 of thousands of deaths and economic catastrophe it really needn’t be both , for the sake of a few sherry’s and a turkey . The economic catastrophe has already happened Benji, one in four businesses do not think they will survive the next 12 weeks if measures remain in place. An entire country destroyed and healthy people imprisoned on the back of a shit powerpoint and a load of “what ifs”. Future generations will look upon 2020 as a crime against humanity. As it appears inflicted on the World by the communist PRC.
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